• Re: The clueless are commenting on SHDs --- tautologies

    From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Thu May 29 20:02:18 2025
    On 5/29/25 1:17 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 5/29/2025 12:11 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    Mr Flibble <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 28 May 2025 21:28:57 -0400, Richard Damon wrote:

    On 5/28/25 2:50 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Halting an SHD due to analysis is NOT the same as the program being
    analysed halting.  Infinite recursion detected through analysis
    (rather
    than running out of simulation resources) DOES NOT MEAN HALTING as far >>>>> as the program being analysed is concerned, IT MEANS NON-HALTING.

    /Flibble

    And what makes it different?

    Remember. Halting is about the actual behavior of the program that was >>>> being analysize. That running doesn't have the SHD "aborted", as
    nothing
    is looking at it, it is just running.

    You have the same error as PO, that you are confusing the actual
    running
    of the program, with the partial simulation done by its decider.

    The only person fucking confused is you, mate.

    There's no call for such vulgarities, here.

    In his post here, Richard was 100% right, as he is with virtually
    everything he posts here.

    It is not right that I have to correct his false
    assumptions many dozens of times before he first
    notices that I ever said anything at all.

    WHAT is the error you need to correct?

    You just keep on repeating your incorrect statement that you can't show
    any evidence to back up


    I don't like the way he expresses himself so
    frequently, but that doesn't mean he isn't right.

    Being right is not a matter of opinion.  It is a matter of holding to
    the truth.  PO fails continually to do this.  It seems you are little
    better, at least in matters mathematical.

    /Flibble


    <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
        If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its
        input D until H correctly determines that its simulated D
        would never stop running unless aborted then

    It is a tautology that any input D to termination
    analyzer H that *would never stop running unless aborted*
    DOES SPECIFY NON-TERMINATING BEHAVIOR.


    But you need to start with a program H and a program D, which you don't.

    And then H has to show that the SPECIFIC D that it is given will not halt.

    SInce, when you lock down your H to what you claim it actually will do,
    and complete D to include that code, the correct simulation of D will
    halt, just after H stops, showing that H did not correctly prove that
    THIS input will not halt if not aborted.

    All you show is that SOMEOTHER input will not halt, because it is built
    on SOMEOTHER decider that isn;t this one, just that you LIE by trying to
    give them all the same name.

    Until you can show the error in my logic, and not just keep repeating
    your refuted errors, you are just proving that you are just 100%
    mistaken, and a blantant liar.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Fri May 30 10:30:24 2025
    On 5/29/25 8:07 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 5/29/2025 7:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 5/29/25 1:17 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 5/29/2025 12:11 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
    Mr Flibble <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Wed, 28 May 2025 21:28:57 -0400, Richard Damon wrote:

    On 5/28/25 2:50 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Halting an SHD due to analysis is NOT the same as the program being >>>>>>> analysed halting.  Infinite recursion detected through analysis >>>>>>> (rather
    than running out of simulation resources) DOES NOT MEAN HALTING
    as far
    as the program being analysed is concerned, IT MEANS NON-HALTING.

    /Flibble

    And what makes it different?

    Remember. Halting is about the actual behavior of the program that >>>>>> was
    being analysize. That running doesn't have the SHD "aborted", as
    nothing
    is looking at it, it is just running.

    You have the same error as PO, that you are confusing the actual
    running
    of the program, with the partial simulation done by its decider.

    The only person fucking confused is you, mate.

    There's no call for such vulgarities, here.

    In his post here, Richard was 100% right, as he is with virtually
    everything he posts here.

    It is not right that I have to correct his false
    assumptions many dozens of times before he first
    notices that I ever said anything at all.

    WHAT is the error you need to correct?

    You just keep on repeating your incorrect statement that you can't
    show any evidence to back up


    I don't like the way he expresses himself so
    frequently, but that doesn't mean he isn't right.

    Being right is not a matter of opinion.  It is a matter of holding to >>>> the truth.  PO fails continually to do this.  It seems you are little >>>> better, at least in matters mathematical.

    /Flibble


    <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
         If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its
         input D until H correctly determines that its simulated D
         would never stop running unless aborted then

    It is a tautology that any input D to termination
    analyzer H that *would never stop running unless aborted*
    DOES SPECIFY NON-TERMINATING BEHAVIOR.


    But you need to start with a program H and a program D, which you don't.


    No I don't you jackass liar.


    Why not, since that is what the problem states?

    In the context of the Halting Problem, and Computation Theory in
    general, the fundamental unit of discussion are informally called
    "Programs" (as that is the common term that people use) and more
    formally called "Compuations" which ARE entities that include ALL the
    code they use and whose behavior is only dependent on the input they are
    given.

    All you are doing is proving you have a fundamental misunderstanding of
    what you are talking about.

    Sorry, but you have sunk yourself into that lake of fire by your own words.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)