• Re: HHH(DDD) computes the mapping from its input to HHH emulating itsel

    From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Mon Nov 18 11:53:04 2024
    On 2024-11-18 04:04:39 +0000, olcott said:

    You stupidly claimed termination analysis is only done
    on programs. I proved that you were stupidly wrong on
    pages 24-27 of the PDF of this paper.

    Automated Termination Analysis of C Programs https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/972440.pdf

    The claim is not supported by the referred article.

    --
    Mikko

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  • From joes@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 18 09:19:49 2024
    Am Sun, 17 Nov 2024 20:35:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/17/2024 8:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 8:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 4:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 3:49 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 1:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 1:36 PM, olcott wrote:

    I referred to every element of an infinite set of encodings of HHH.

    Do you mean they are parameterised by the number of steps they simulate?

    When each of them correctly emulates N instructions of its input
    then N instructions have been correctly emulated. It is despicably
    dishonest of you to say that when N instructions have been correctly >>>>> emulated that no instructions have been correctly emulating.

    Then not all instructions have been simulated correctly.

    I never said that N instructions correctly emulated is no
    instructions correctly emulated, just that it isn't a correct
    emulation that provides the answer for the semantic property of
    halting, which requires emulating to the final state or an unbounded
    number of steps.
    No, but it is the fact that it CAN be emulated for an unbounded number
    of steps that makes it non-halting.

    It cannot be emulated for an unbounded number of steps.

    ???
    You can continue to simulate an infinite loop forever.

    --
    Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
    It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

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  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Mon Nov 18 11:41:59 2024
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no larger context that could specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping".

    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    void DDD()
    {
    HHH(DDD);
    return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404 add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d pop ebp
    [00002183] c3 ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N
    to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly
    reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return.
    Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call.
    Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH.

    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no
    matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is
    a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts.

    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH and an input that
    specifies a halting program and give that to the program called to HHH. Obviously the words "every DDD" and "any HHH" adn "the input to HHH" are intended to be restricted to some smaller ranges but no restrictions are specified.

    --
    Mikko

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  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Mon Nov 18 09:56:27 2024
    On 11/18/24 8:49 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 3:19 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Sun, 17 Nov 2024 20:35:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/17/2024 8:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 8:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 4:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 3:49 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 1:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 1:36 PM, olcott wrote:

    I referred to every element of an infinite set of encodings of HHH.

    Do you mean they are parameterised by the number of steps they simulate?


    No I do not mean that.

    Then your arguement is based on an equivocation.

    Whether or not DDD emulated by HHH ever reaches its
    own "return" instruction final halt state has nothing
    to do with any of the internal working of HHH as long
    as each HHH emulates N steps of its input according
    to the semantics of the x86 language.

    Except that the behavior DOES depend on if that HHH returns.

    Of course, your subjective, non-semantic property of "emulated by HHH"
    is just a meaningless term, so doesn't really mean anything, so your
    statement is just nonsense anyway.


    When each of them correctly emulates N instructions of its input >>>>>>> then N instructions have been correctly emulated. It is despicably >>>>>>> dishonest of you to say that when N instructions have been correctly >>>>>>> emulated that no instructions have been correctly emulating.

    Then not all instructions have been simulated correctly.

    It is ridiculously stupid to require a non-halting input to be
    emulated completely because of the requirement that HHH itself
    must halt.

    But that it the definition of Non-Halting.

    HHH doesn't need to do it, but it needs to answer about the results of
    the machine that does it,


    All emulating termination analyzers are required to correctly
    PREDICT whether or not an unlimited emulation of their input
    would cause their own non-termination.

    Right, and they need to be CORRECT, and the emulation they are
    predictiong is NOT their own (unless that *IS* unbounded).

    Since the only thing that *HAS* objective halting behavior is a complete program with a fully defined HHH that it is calling, if that HHH doesn't
    do a complete emulation, then it needs to be answering about the
    emulation done by something other than itself.


    When someone (that knows better) insists that this emulation
    must be complete they merely make a complete jackass of themselves.


    Nope, YOU make the jackass of yourself by saying definitions don't matter.

    You are just proving that your concept of logic allows for lies.



    I never said that N instructions correctly emulated is no
    instructions correctly emulated, just that it isn't a correct
    emulation that provides the answer for the semantic property of
    halting, which requires emulating to the final state or an unbounded >>>>>> number of steps.
    No, but it is the fact that it CAN be emulated for an unbounded number >>>> of steps that makes it non-halting.

    It cannot be emulated for an unbounded number of steps.

    ???
    You can continue to simulate an infinite loop forever.


    The violates the design requirement that an emulating termination
    analyzer must itself halt.


    And your HHH violates the design requirement that the answer matches the unbounded emulaiton of the input.

    All you are doing is CONFIRMING that halt deciders can not exist, and
    that your "logic system" is just inconsistant and based on the
    assumption of lies.

    Sorry, you have sunk your reputation to the bottom of the lake of fire,
    and it seems you are going to be spending your eternity trying to find it.

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  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Mon Nov 18 14:05:24 2024
    On 11/18/24 1:38 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 8:56 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 8:49 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 3:19 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Sun, 17 Nov 2024 20:35:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/17/2024 8:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 8:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 4:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 3:49 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 1:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 1:36 PM, olcott wrote:

    I referred to every element of an infinite set of encodings of >>>>>>>>> HHH.

    Do you mean they are parameterised by the number of steps they
    simulate?


    No I do not mean that.

    Then your arguement is based on an equivocation.

    Whether or not DDD emulated by HHH ever reaches its
    own "return" instruction final halt state has nothing
    to do with any of the internal working of HHH as long
    as each HHH emulates N steps of its input according
    to the semantics of the x86 language.

    Except that the behavior DOES depend on if that HHH returns.

    Of course, your subjective, non-semantic property of "emulated by HHH"
    is just a meaningless term, so doesn't really mean anything, so your
    statement is just nonsense anyway.


    You are a damned liar trying to get away with lying about
    the effect of the pathological relationship that DDD specifies.



    Nope, you are a just a damned liar making claims without any form of
    actual logic behind them.

    Do you have ANY source that backs your claims about what you claim?

    (Not you).

    Note. the "pathological relationship" has absolutely ZERO affect on the OBJECTIVE QUESTION that is in the problem, it only breaks your
    SUBJECTIVE, non-semantic, gobbledygook that you are trying to describe.

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  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Mon Nov 18 14:34:28 2024
    On 11/18/24 2:19 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 1:05 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 1:38 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 8:56 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 8:49 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 3:19 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Sun, 17 Nov 2024 20:35:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/17/2024 8:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 8:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 4:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 3:49 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 1:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 1:36 PM, olcott wrote:

    I referred to every element of an infinite set of encodings >>>>>>>>>>> of HHH.

    Do you mean they are parameterised by the number of steps they
    simulate?


    No I do not mean that.

    Then your arguement is based on an equivocation.

    Whether or not DDD emulated by HHH ever reaches its
    own "return" instruction final halt state has nothing
    to do with any of the internal working of HHH as long
    as each HHH emulates N steps of its input according
    to the semantics of the x86 language.

    Except that the behavior DOES depend on if that HHH returns.

    Of course, your subjective, non-semantic property of "emulated by
    HHH" is just a meaningless term, so doesn't really mean anything, so
    your statement is just nonsense anyway.


    You are a damned liar trying to get away with lying about
    the effect of the pathological relationship that DDD specifies.



    Nope, you are a just a damned liar making claims without any form of
    actual logic behind them.

    Do you have ANY source that backs your claims about what you claim?


    DEFECTION FOR BRAINS
    DDD emulated by HHH specifies that HHH emulates
    itself emulating DDD such that no such DDD can ever
    reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    But the emulation by HHH is NOT the criteria, as the PARTIAL emulation
    by HHH is not a semantic property, and is just subjective, not objective



    *Professor Hehner recognized this repeating process before I did*
      From a programmer's point of view, if we apply an interpreter to a
      program text that includes a call to that same interpreter with that
      same text as argument, then we have an infinite loop. A halting
      program has some of the same character as an interpreter: it applies
      to texts through abstract interpretation. Unsurprisingly, if we apply
      a halting program to a program text that includes a call to that same
      halting program with that same text as argument, then we have an
      infinite loop. (Hehner:2011:15)

    [5] E C R Hehner. Problems with the Halting Problem, COMPUTING2011
    Symposium on 75 years of Turing Machine and Lambda-Calculus, Karlsruhe Germany, invited, 2011 October 20-21; Advances in Computer Science and Engineering v.10 n.1 p.31-60, 2013
    https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/PHP.pdf


    Just showing that you are not alone in making the error.

    If you want a vote, you looks by a landslide against you.

    Of course, by your voting logic, that means you "win" the election.

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  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Mon Nov 18 14:38:28 2024
    On 11/18/24 2:19 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 1:05 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 1:38 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 8:56 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 8:49 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 3:19 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Sun, 17 Nov 2024 20:35:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/17/2024 8:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 8:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 4:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 3:49 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 1:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 1:36 PM, olcott wrote:

    I referred to every element of an infinite set of encodings >>>>>>>>>>> of HHH.

    Do you mean they are parameterised by the number of steps they
    simulate?


    No I do not mean that.

    Then your arguement is based on an equivocation.

    Whether or not DDD emulated by HHH ever reaches its
    own "return" instruction final halt state has nothing
    to do with any of the internal working of HHH as long
    as each HHH emulates N steps of its input according
    to the semantics of the x86 language.

    Except that the behavior DOES depend on if that HHH returns.

    Of course, your subjective, non-semantic property of "emulated by
    HHH" is just a meaningless term, so doesn't really mean anything, so
    your statement is just nonsense anyway.


    You are a damned liar trying to get away with lying about
    the effect of the pathological relationship that DDD specifies.



    Nope, you are a just a damned liar making claims without any form of
    actual logic behind them.

    Do you have ANY source that backs your claims about what you claim?


    DEFECTION FOR BRAINS
    DDD emulated by HHH specifies that HHH emulates
    itself emulating DDD such that no such DDD can ever
    reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    *Professor Hehner recognized this repeating process before I did*
      From a programmer's point of view, if we apply an interpreter to a
      program text that includes a call to that same interpreter with that
      same text as argument, then we have an infinite loop. A halting
      program has some of the same character as an interpreter: it applies
      to texts through abstract interpretation. Unsurprisingly, if we apply
      a halting program to a program text that includes a call to that same
      halting program with that same text as argument, then we have an
      infinite loop. (Hehner:2011:15)

    [5] E C R Hehner. Problems with the Halting Problem, COMPUTING2011
    Symposium on 75 years of Turing Machine and Lambda-Calculus, Karlsruhe Germany, invited, 2011 October 20-21; Advances in Computer Science and Engineering v.10 n.1 p.31-60, 2013
    https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/PHP.pdf


    Note, HHH is not a "interpreter" tasked with recreating the behavior of
    the input.

    Thus, the arguement does not hold.

    If HHH aborts, then the CORRECT interpreation of the input is
    non-halting, as DDD calls HHH which will return to DDD and thus DDD Halts.


    HHH is just an incorrect decider, because it wasn't smart enough to
    handle this non-pathological case.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Mon Nov 18 16:36:01 2024
    On 11/18/24 3:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 04:04:39 +0000, olcott said:

    You stupidly claimed termination analysis is only done
    on programs. I proved that you were stupidly wrong on
    pages 24-27 of the PDF of this paper.

    Automated Termination Analysis of C Programs
    https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/972440.pdf

    The claim is not supported by the referred article.


    You are a damned liar. Page 24 proves that termination
    analysis is performed on C functions. It is damned liars
    like you that are causing the rise of the fourth reich.


    LEAF C functions.

    Sorry, you are the damned liar that is so stupid you maybe cause Trump
    to be elected.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Mon Nov 18 16:35:57 2024
    On 11/18/24 4:10 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 1:34 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 2:19 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 1:05 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 1:38 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 8:56 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 8:49 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 3:19 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Sun, 17 Nov 2024 20:35:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/17/2024 8:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 8:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 4:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 3:49 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 1:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 1:36 PM, olcott wrote:

    I referred to every element of an infinite set of encodings >>>>>>>>>>>>> of HHH.

    Do you mean they are parameterised by the number of steps they >>>>>>>> simulate?


    No I do not mean that.

    Then your arguement is based on an equivocation.

    Whether or not DDD emulated by HHH ever reaches its
    own "return" instruction final halt state has nothing
    to do with any of the internal working of HHH as long
    as each HHH emulates N steps of its input according
    to the semantics of the x86 language.

    Except that the behavior DOES depend on if that HHH returns.

    Of course, your subjective, non-semantic property of "emulated by
    HHH" is just a meaningless term, so doesn't really mean anything,
    so your statement is just nonsense anyway.


    You are a damned liar trying to get away with lying about
    the effect of the pathological relationship that DDD specifies.



    Nope, you are a just a damned liar making claims without any form of
    actual logic behind them.

    Do you have ANY source that backs your claims about what you claim?


    DEFECTION FOR BRAINS
    DDD emulated by HHH specifies that HHH emulates
    itself emulating DDD such that no such DDD can ever
    reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    But the emulation by HHH is NOT the criteria, as the PARTIAL emulation
    by HHH is not a semantic property, and is just subjective, not objective


    Your ADD must be actual severe brain damage if you
    can't keep track of the fact that requiring the complete
    emulatiion of a non-terminating input in not ridiculously
    stupid when you have been told this dozens of times.

    No, but if your morals means that you don't need to follow the rules,
    then you deserve your one way trip to the lake.

    There is no requirement for the decdier to perform the complete
    emulation of the non-terminating input, just that it shows that if
    something DID an unbounded emulation of that COMPLETE input, it would
    never reach a final state.




    *Professor Hehner recognized this repeating process before I did*
       From a programmer's point of view, if we apply an interpreter to a
       program text that includes a call to that same interpreter with that >>>    same text as argument, then we have an infinite loop. A halting
       program has some of the same character as an interpreter: it applies >>>    to texts through abstract interpretation. Unsurprisingly, if we apply >>>    a halting program to a program text that includes a call to that same >>>    halting program with that same text as argument, then we have an
       infinite loop. (Hehner:2011:15)

    [5] E C R Hehner. Problems with the Halting Problem, COMPUTING2011
    Symposium on 75 years of Turing Machine and Lambda-Calculus,
    Karlsruhe Germany, invited, 2011 October 20-21; Advances in Computer
    Science and Engineering v.10 n.1 p.31-60, 2013
    https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/PHP.pdf


    Just showing that you are not alone in making the error.


    The meaning of the words prove that it is true.


    Nope. Showing you don't know the actual meaning of the words.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Mon Nov 18 20:32:16 2024
    On 11/18/24 6:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 3:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 3:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 04:04:39 +0000, olcott said:

    You stupidly claimed termination analysis is only done
    on programs. I proved that you were stupidly wrong on
    pages 24-27 of the PDF of this paper.

    Automated Termination Analysis of C Programs
    https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/972440.pdf

    The claim is not supported by the referred article.


    You are a damned liar. Page 24 proves that termination
    analysis is performed on C functions. It is damned liars
    like you that are causing the rise of the fourth reich.


    LEAF C functions.


    You can't retroactively change your original claim
    to make it look like you never made a mistake.
    That is what damned liars do.



    I didn't.

    You are just lying.

    Your problem is you don't know what you are talking about and just bring
    up phases you didn't learn but read by just rote.

    You are just proving your utter stupidity.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Tue Nov 19 12:05:09 2024
    On 2024-11-18 20:44:49 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 04:04:39 +0000, olcott said:

    You stupidly claimed termination analysis is only done
    on programs. I proved that you were stupidly wrong on
    pages 24-27 of the PDF of this paper.

    Automated Termination Analysis of C Programs
    https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/972440.pdf

    The claim is not supported by the referred article.


    You are a damned liar. Page 24 proves that termination
    analysis is performed on C functions.

    You are the liar. Page 24 does not even mention C functions.

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Tue Nov 19 12:12:11 2024
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no larger context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping".

    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N
    to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly
    reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return.
    Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call.
    Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH.

    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no
    matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is
    a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts.

    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH

    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified
    for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language.

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to Richard Damon on Tue Nov 19 12:08:52 2024
    On 2024-11-19 01:32:16 +0000, Richard Damon said:

    On 11/18/24 6:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 3:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 3:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 04:04:39 +0000, olcott said:

    You stupidly claimed termination analysis is only done
    on programs. I proved that you were stupidly wrong on
    pages 24-27 of the PDF of this paper.

    Automated Termination Analysis of C Programs
    https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/972440.pdf

    The claim is not supported by the referred article.


    You are a damned liar. Page 24 proves that termination
    analysis is performed on C functions. It is damned liars
    like you that are causing the rise of the fourth reich.


    LEAF C functions.


    You can't retroactively change your original claim
    to make it look like you never made a mistake.
    That is what damned liars do.

    I didn't.

    You are just lying.

    Your problem is you don't know what you are talking about and just
    bring up phases you didn't learn but read by just rote.

    I think that another problem is more serious: he dosn't know what other
    people talk about but thinks he does and therefore fails the avoid the
    sin of lying about other people.

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From joes@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 19 16:32:58 2024
    Am Tue, 19 Nov 2024 08:44:17 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/19/2024 5:56 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Mon, 18 Nov 2024 14:21:04 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/18/2024 1:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 2:07 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 1:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 1:41 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 10:16 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 11:04 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 9:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 9:47 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 8:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 8:46 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 4:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 4:30 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 2:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 1:36 PM, olcott wrote:

    Which is just what YOU are doing, as "Halting" and what a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Program" is are DEFINED, and you can't change it.
    YET ANOTHER STUPID LIE.
    A SMART LIAR WOULD NEVER SAY THAT I MEANT PROGRAM WHEN I >>>>>>>>>>>>> ALWAYS SPECIFIED A C FUNCTION.
    But then you can talk about "emulation" or x86 semantics, as >>>>>>>>>>>> both of those are operations done on PROGRAMS.
    No stupid I provided a published paper that includes the >>>>>>>>>>> termination analysis of C functions.
    Look again at what they process. C functions that include all >>>>>>>>>> the functions they call.
    You stupidly claimed termination analysis is only done on
    programs. I proved that you were stupidly wrong on pages 24-27 >>>>>>>>> of the PDF of this paper.
    Automated Termination Analysis of C Programs
    https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/
    972440.pdf
    The problem here is you are mixing language between domains.
    I said the termination analysis applies to C functions you said
    that it does not. No weasel words around it YOU WERE WRONG!
    Termination analysis applies to FUNCTIONS, FULL FUNCTIONS, ones
    that include everything that is part of them. Those things, in
    computation theory, are called PROGRAMS.
    The top of PDF page 24 are not programs defection for brains.
    https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/972440.pdf
    Those *ARE* "Computation Theory" Programs.
    They are also  LEAF functions, unlike your DDD.
    NOTHING in that paper (form what I can see) talks about handling non-
    leaf-functions with including all the code in the routines it calls.
    Since the halting problem is defined to have the input call its own
    termination analyzer and the termination analyzer is itself required
    to halt then any sequence of this input that would prevent it from
    halting IS A NON-HALTING SEQUENCE THAT MUST BE ABORTED AND CANNOT BE
    ALLOWED TO CONTINUE.
    What happens when we run HHH(HHH)?
    The ONLY thing that it relevant

    Whatever. I was asking a different question. Furthermore, what happens
    when we run HHH1(DDD), HHH1(DDD1), HHH(DDD1)?

    DDD emulated by HHH1 DOES NOT SPECIFY THAT HHH1 must emulate itself
    emulating DDD.
    Of course not. DDD specifies to call HHH, regardless of the simulator.

    --
    Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
    It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Tue Nov 19 18:37:41 2024
    On 11/19/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/19/2024 10:32 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Tue, 19 Nov 2024 08:44:17 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/19/2024 5:56 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Mon, 18 Nov 2024 14:21:04 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/18/2024 1:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 2:07 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 1:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 1:41 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 10:16 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 11:04 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 9:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 9:47 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 8:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 8:46 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 4:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 4:30 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 2:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/17/24 1:36 PM, olcott wrote:

    Which is just what YOU are doing, as "Halting" and what a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Program" is are DEFINED, and you can't change it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> YET ANOTHER STUPID LIE.
    A SMART LIAR WOULD NEVER SAY THAT I MEANT PROGRAM WHEN I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ALWAYS SPECIFIED A C FUNCTION.
    But then you can talk about "emulation" or x86 semantics, as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> both of those are operations done on PROGRAMS.
    No stupid I provided a published paper that includes the >>>>>>>>>>>>> termination analysis of C functions.
    Look again at what they process. C functions that include all >>>>>>>>>>>> the functions they call.
    You stupidly claimed termination analysis is only done on >>>>>>>>>>> programs. I proved that you were stupidly wrong on pages 24-27 >>>>>>>>>>> of the PDF of this paper.
    Automated Termination Analysis of C Programs
    https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/
    972440.pdf
    The problem here is you are mixing language between domains. >>>>>>>>> I said the termination analysis applies to C functions you said >>>>>>>>> that it does not. No weasel words around it YOU WERE WRONG!
    Termination analysis applies to FUNCTIONS, FULL FUNCTIONS, ones >>>>>>>> that include everything that is part of them. Those things, in >>>>>>>> computation theory, are called PROGRAMS.
    The top of PDF page 24 are not programs defection for brains.
    https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/972440.pdf >>>>>> Those *ARE* "Computation Theory" Programs.
    They are also  LEAF functions, unlike your DDD.
    NOTHING in that paper (form what I can see) talks about handling non- >>>>>> leaf-functions with including all the code in the routines it calls. >>>>> Since the halting problem is defined to have the input call its own
    termination analyzer and the termination analyzer is itself required >>>>> to halt then any sequence of this input that would prevent it from
    halting IS A NON-HALTING SEQUENCE THAT MUST BE ABORTED AND CANNOT BE >>>>> ALLOWED TO CONTINUE.
    What happens when we run HHH(HHH)?
    The ONLY thing that it relevant

    Whatever. I was asking a different question. Furthermore, what happens
    when we run HHH1(DDD), HHH1(DDD1), HHH(DDD1)?


    I cannot afford to tolerate changing the subject to irrelevant
    points. Ben Bacarisse had me stuck for 15 years with his
    change-the-subject rebuttals. My cancer has gotten worse too
    soon so I can't waste time on that.

    Then why did you do it?

    After all, you stated goal is to prove halting is decidable, so
    something that has nothing connecting it to the halting problem is just irrelevent.


    DDD emulated by HHH1 DOES NOT SPECIFY THAT HHH1 must emulate itself
    emulating DDD.

    Of course not. DDD specifies to call HHH, regardless of the simulator.


    Everyone here has been trying to dishonestly pretend that the
    behavior of the directly executed DDD is the same as the behavior
    of DDD emulated by HHH for three years.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Tue Nov 19 22:41:00 2024
    On 11/19/24 10:26 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/19/2024 5:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/19/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/19/2024 10:32 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Tue, 19 Nov 2024 08:44:17 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/19/2024 5:56 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Mon, 18 Nov 2024 14:21:04 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/18/2024 1:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 2:07 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 1:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 1:41 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 10:16 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 11:04 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 9:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 9:47 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 8:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 8:46 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 4:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/17/24 4:30 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 2:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/17/24 1:36 PM, olcott wrote:

    Which is just what YOU are doing, as "Halting" and what a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Program" is are DEFINED, and you can't change it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> YET ANOTHER STUPID LIE.
    A SMART LIAR WOULD NEVER SAY THAT I MEANT PROGRAM WHEN I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ALWAYS SPECIFIED A C FUNCTION.
    But then you can talk about "emulation" or x86 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> semantics, as
    both of those are operations done on PROGRAMS.
    No stupid I provided a published paper that includes the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> termination analysis of C functions.
    Look again at what they process. C functions that include all >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the functions they call.
    You stupidly claimed termination analysis is only done on >>>>>>>>>>>>> programs. I proved that you were stupidly wrong on pages 24-27 >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the PDF of this paper.
    Automated Termination Analysis of C Programs
    https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/
    972440.pdf
    The problem here is you are mixing language between domains. >>>>>>>>>>> I said the termination analysis applies to C functions you said >>>>>>>>>>> that it does not. No weasel words around it YOU WERE WRONG! >>>>>>>>>> Termination analysis applies to FUNCTIONS, FULL FUNCTIONS, ones >>>>>>>>>> that include everything that is part of them. Those things, in >>>>>>>>>> computation theory, are called PROGRAMS.
    The top of PDF page 24 are not programs defection for brains. >>>>>>>>> https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/972440.pdf >>>>>>>> Those *ARE* "Computation Theory" Programs.
    They are also  LEAF functions, unlike your DDD.
    NOTHING in that paper (form what I can see) talks about handling >>>>>>>> non-
    leaf-functions with including all the code in the routines it
    calls.
    Since the halting problem is defined to have the input call its own >>>>>>> termination analyzer and the termination analyzer is itself required >>>>>>> to halt then any sequence of this input that would prevent it from >>>>>>> halting IS A NON-HALTING SEQUENCE THAT MUST BE ABORTED AND CANNOT BE >>>>>>> ALLOWED TO CONTINUE.
    What happens when we run HHH(HHH)?
    The ONLY thing that it relevant

    Whatever. I was asking a different question. Furthermore, what happens >>>> when we run HHH1(DDD), HHH1(DDD1), HHH(DDD1)?


    I cannot afford to tolerate changing the subject to irrelevant
    points. Ben Bacarisse had me stuck for 15 years with his
    change-the-subject rebuttals. My cancer has gotten worse too
    soon so I can't waste time on that.

    Then why did you do it?

    After all, you stated goal is to prove halting is decidable,

    Through a specific sequence of steps.


    But arguements based on nonsense don't provide steps to a proof.

    As even you have stated, to show something to be true, you have to START
    at the defines axioms of the system.

    Thus, "halt deciders" or "Termination analyzers" take as there inputs descriptions of programs / computations, not nonsense.

    They also need to answer about an objective mapping that is a function
    of JUST that input, and not anything about the decider looking at it.

    You miss on both of these, and thus your "criteria" is just INVALID, and
    your insistance on it just proves that you are a stupid idiot.

    If you have some way to actually show the relevance, you need to present
    it FIRST to make you statements admissible.

    Of course you can't do that because your arguement is based on ciruclar reasoning with equivocations, and that gets revealed too obviously if
    you are forced to do things in the right order.

    Sorry, you lie is exposed and your stupidity has been made obvious.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Nov 20 11:53:14 2024
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The subject line >>>> does not specify which mapping and there is no larger context that could >>>> specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping".

    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N
    to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly
    reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return.
    Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call.
    Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH.

    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no
    matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is
    a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts.

    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is perfectly possibe >>>> to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH

    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified
    for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language.


    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered
    on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D


    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your GitHub repository.

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Nov 20 11:50:42 2024
    On 2024-11-20 03:19:37 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:05 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:44:49 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 04:04:39 +0000, olcott said:

    You stupidly claimed termination analysis is only done
    on programs. I proved that you were stupidly wrong on
    pages 24-27 of the PDF of this paper.

    Automated Termination Analysis of C Programs
    https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/972440.pdf

    The claim is not supported by the referred article.


    You are a damned liar. Page 24 proves that termination
    analysis is performed on C functions.

    You are the liar. Page 24 does not even mention C functions.

    There are two different page 24. Page 24 of the PDF
    not page 24 of the paper.

    You failed to tell which one you meant. Such tricks may deceive
    somebody but don't work here.

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Nov 20 18:50:59 2024
    On 11/20/24 5:00 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 3:50 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:19:37 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:05 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:44:49 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 04:04:39 +0000, olcott said:

    You stupidly claimed termination analysis is only done
    on programs. I proved that you were stupidly wrong on
    pages 24-27 of the PDF of this paper.

    Automated Termination Analysis of C Programs
    https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/972440.pdf >>>>>>
    The claim is not supported by the referred article.


    You are a damned liar. Page 24 proves that termination
    analysis is performed on C functions.

    You are the liar. Page 24 does not even mention C functions.

    There are two different page 24. Page 24 of the PDF
    not page 24 of the paper.

    You failed to tell which one you meant. Such tricks may deceive
    somebody but don't work here.


    Please quit being a damned jackass.


    We could say the same about you, and be more correct.

    WE have pointed out your errors, you just claim you don't understand,
    proving your stupidity.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Nov 20 18:51:05 2024
    On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The subject
    line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no larger context that >>>>>> could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping".

    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N
    to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly
    reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return.
    Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call.
    Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH.

    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no
    matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is
    a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts.

    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is perfectly
    possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH

    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified
    for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language.


    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered
    on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023

    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D

    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about
    this because you did not quote where I did this?

    You forget how many times you have posted the link to your "fully
    functioning code"?

    You can't have it both ways, either that *IS* the code of HHH.


    I honestly do not believe that I would have ever made
    the stupid mistake of calling a C function a computer
    program.


    Which just shows how stupid you are.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Nov 20 21:47:40 2024
    On 11/20/24 9:39 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 5:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 5:04 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/19/2024 9:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/19/24 10:26 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/19/2024 5:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/19/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/19/2024 10:32 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Tue, 19 Nov 2024 08:44:17 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/19/2024 5:56 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Mon, 18 Nov 2024 14:21:04 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/18/2024 1:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 2:07 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 1:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/18/24 1:41 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/18/2024 10:16 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/17/24 11:04 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 9:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/17/24 9:47 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 8:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/17/24 8:46 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/17/2024 4:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/17/24 4:30 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/17/2024 2:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/17/24 1:36 PM, olcott wrote:

    Which is just what YOU are doing, as "Halting" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what a
    "Program" is are DEFINED, and you can't change it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> YET ANOTHER STUPID LIE.
    A SMART LIAR WOULD NEVER SAY THAT I MEANT PROGRAM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WHEN I
    ALWAYS SPECIFIED A C FUNCTION.
    But then you can talk about "emulation" or x86 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> semantics, as
    both of those are operations done on PROGRAMS. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No stupid I provided a published paper that includes the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> termination analysis of C functions.
    Look again at what they process. C functions that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> include all
    the functions they call.
    You stupidly claimed termination analysis is only done on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> programs. I proved that you were stupidly wrong on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pages 24-27
    of the PDF of this paper.
    Automated Termination Analysis of C Programs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/ >>>>>>>> 972440.pdf
    The problem here is you are mixing language between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> domains.
    I said the termination analysis applies to C functions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you said
    that it does not. No weasel words around it YOU WERE WRONG! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Termination analysis applies to FUNCTIONS, FULL FUNCTIONS, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ones
    that include everything that is part of them. Those >>>>>>>>>>>>>> things, in
    computation theory, are called PROGRAMS.
    The top of PDF page 24 are not programs defection for brains. >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/
    files/972440.pdf
    Those *ARE* "Computation Theory" Programs.
    They are also  LEAF functions, unlike your DDD.
    NOTHING in that paper (form what I can see) talks about >>>>>>>>>>>> handling non-
    leaf-functions with including all the code in the routines >>>>>>>>>>>> it calls.
    Since the halting problem is defined to have the input call >>>>>>>>>>> its own
    termination analyzer and the termination analyzer is itself >>>>>>>>>>> required
    to halt then any sequence of this input that would prevent it >>>>>>>>>>> from
    halting IS A NON-HALTING SEQUENCE THAT MUST BE ABORTED AND >>>>>>>>>>> CANNOT BE
    ALLOWED TO CONTINUE.
    What happens when we run HHH(HHH)?
    The ONLY thing that it relevant

    Whatever. I was asking a different question. Furthermore, what >>>>>>>> happens
    when we run HHH1(DDD), HHH1(DDD1), HHH(DDD1)?


    I cannot afford to tolerate changing the subject to irrelevant
    points. Ben Bacarisse had me stuck for 15 years with his
    change-the-subject rebuttals. My cancer has gotten worse too
    soon so I can't waste time on that.

    Then why did you do it?

    After all, you stated goal is to prove halting is decidable,

    Through a specific sequence of steps.


    But arguements based on nonsense don't provide steps to a proof.


    You are a damned liar.



    Nope. but it seems you are.


    What I say is proven true by the meaning of its words
    and you lie about this condemning yourself to actual Hell.

    No, and you have shown you don't KNOW the meaning of the words, because
    you are using "Terms of Art" in an art that you are just ignorant of.


    DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly reach its "return"
    instruction final halt state.

    Which is an invalid criteria for a decider, and even invalid for saying
    "never"

    Your HHH shows that the behavior of DDD doesn't YET reach the return instruction in the part of its behavior emulated by HHH, but it DOES
    reach their under the ACTUAL DEFINITION of the behavior of DDD, that HHH
    MUST ANSWER ABOUT, or your whole arguement is just based on lies.


    That you say this is untrue is a despicable lie and
    you know it.


    No, Because your statement is just NONSENSE.

    That it is true and seems irrelevant to you would not
    be a lie. You seem to prefer to lie.


    No, you are just proving you are nothing but a pathological liar
    because you refuse to learn what you words mean.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Nov 20 23:00:38 2024
    On 11/20/24 10:45 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 8:47 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 9:39 PM, olcott wrote:

    What I say is proven true by the meaning of its words
    and you lie about this condemning yourself to actual Hell.

    No, and you have shown you don't KNOW the meaning of the words,
    because you are using "Terms of Art" in an art that you are just
    ignorant of.


    DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly reach its "return"
    instruction final halt state.

    Which is an invalid criteria for a decider, and even invalid for
    saying "never"


    THAT IS NOT THE SAME AS SAYING IT IS FALSE.

    It surely isn't true, which is what you need it to be.

    I guees you are just admitting that you are nothing but a lying hypocrite.


    Your HHH shows that the behavior of DDD doesn't YET reach the return
    instruction in the part of its behavior emulated by HHH, but it DOES
    reach their under the ACTUAL DEFINITION of the behavior of DDD, that
    HHH MUST ANSWER ABOUT, or your whole arguement is just based on lies.


    That you say this is untrue is a despicable lie and
    you know it.


    No, Because your statement is just NONSENSE.


    No Jackass it is not nonsense. You may be a condemned
    to actual Hell liar for saying that it is nonsense.
    Here is actual nonsense: "f4(nmr rgfm59 mn98B"

    Yes, it is nonsense, as it is making a category error.

    You just don't understand the words you are using, and your insistance
    on incorrect statements is just proving you are nothing but a liar.


    That it is true and seems irrelevant to you would not
    be a lie. You seem to prefer to lie.


    No, you are just proving you are nothing but a pathological  liar
    because you refuse to learn what you words mean.

    That you call a point of view that is merely different
    than the conventional point of view "nonsense" or a "lie"
    IS A LIE THAT MAY GET YOU CONDEMNED TO ACTUAL HELL.


    IT isn't a "point of view" but a failure to meet the objective
    requirements of the system you are stuck in.

    IT seems that YOU are the one condemned to hell, and Satan has you so
    buffaloed that you don't see it coming.

    Once he got you to brainwash yourself to not even look at the correct definitions, he had you in the bag, as you are just unable to understand
    the truth, which mean he also cut you off from the possible solution to
    your problems, so you don't actually beleive in the right way of how
    truth works.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Thu Nov 21 11:12:21 2024
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The subject line >>>>>> does not specify which mapping and there is no larger context that could >>>>>> specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping".

    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N
    to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly
    reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return.
    Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call.
    Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH.

    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no
    matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is
    a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts.

    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is perfectly possibe >>>>>> to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH

    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified
    for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language.


    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered
    on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023

    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D


    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about
    this because you did not quote where I did this?

    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of clarity and
    in particular by your bad choice of names.

    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH that you have
    in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the possiblity
    that you just triying to deceive by equivcation.

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Thu Nov 21 07:20:03 2024
    On 11/21/24 12:18 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 10:45 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 8:47 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 9:39 PM, olcott wrote:

    What I say is proven true by the meaning of its words
    and you lie about this condemning yourself to actual Hell.

    No, and you have shown you don't KNOW the meaning of the words,
    because you are using "Terms of Art" in an art that you are just
    ignorant of.


    DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly reach its "return"
    instruction final halt state.

    Which is an invalid criteria for a decider, and even invalid for
    saying "never"


    THAT IS NOT THE SAME AS SAYING IT IS FALSE.

    It surely isn't true, which is what you need it to be.


    Of course it is true. I just don't get it why you want to
    condemn yourself to Hell over this. Are you a fake Christian?

    It isn't a valid condition to talk about for a decider, so just like the
    Liar's Paradox, it is untrue.

    I am not condemning myself, as what I speak is from the truth. Your
    problem is you have shown you don't really understand what truth is, you
    know some of the words, but not what they mean, so you don't follow the
    truth.

    You have demonstrated that you are just a pagan, as you think you are
    God, so you can't be a Christian.


    I guees you are just admitting that you are nothing but a lying
    hypocrite.


    I haven't even made a mistake, you are the one that is.
    Anyone can tell that by the inconsistency of your answers.

    Yes you have made many mistakes. You have even admitted to them, thus
    your statement is just a blatant lie.

    Everyone sees that it is YOUR logic that is inconsistent, things like
    HHH is one program that we can run, and HHH is an infinite set of programs.

    You logic is just based on equivocation, fallacies, and lies.



    Your HHH shows that the behavior of DDD doesn't YET reach the return
    instruction in the part of its behavior emulated by HHH, but it DOES
    reach their under the ACTUAL DEFINITION of the behavior of DDD, that
    HHH MUST ANSWER ABOUT, or your whole arguement is just based on lies.


    That you say this is untrue is a despicable lie and
    you know it.


    No, Because your statement is just NONSENSE.


    No Jackass it is not nonsense. You may be a condemned
    to actual Hell liar for saying that it is nonsense.
    Here is actual nonsense: "f4(nmr rgfm59 mn98B"

    Yes, it is nonsense, as it is making a category error.

    You just don't understand the words you are using, and your insistance
    on incorrect statements is just proving you are nothing but a liar.


    That it is true and seems irrelevant to you would not
    be a lie. You seem to prefer to lie.


    No, you are just proving you are nothing but a pathological  liar
    because you refuse to learn what you words mean.

    That you call a point of view that is merely different
    than the conventional point of view "nonsense" or a "lie"
    IS A LIE THAT MAY GET YOU CONDEMNED TO ACTUAL HELL.


    IT isn't a "point of view" but a failure to meet the objective
    requirements of the system you are stuck in.

    IT seems that YOU are the one condemned to hell, and Satan has you so
    buffaloed that you don't see it coming.

    Once he got you to brainwash yourself to not even look at the correct
    definitions, he had you in the bag, as you are just unable to
    understand the truth, which mean he also cut you off from the possible
    solution to your problems, so you don't actually beleive in the right
    way of how truth works.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From joes@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 21 21:11:23 2024
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:19:03 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:
    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The
    subject line does not specify which mapping and there is no >>>>>>>>>> larger context that could specify that. Therefore it should be >>>>>>>>>> "a mapping".
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    My code is one example of the infinite set of every possible HHH that
    emulates DDD according to the semantics of the x86 language.
    Like all of them, it is unable to simulate DDD to its undeniable halting
    state.

    But it gets the wrong answer for the halting problem, as DDD dpes halt.
    DDD emulated by HHH does not halt.
    Whatever. DDD halts and HHH should return that.
    I can make a "decider" this way: it simulates no steps at all and returns
    that all inputs halt when simulated by it.

    Are you a fake Christian?
    I am a fake Scientologist.
    --
    Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
    It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From joes@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 21 21:14:59 2024
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:34:12 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/21/2024 6:20 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/21/24 12:18 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 10:45 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 8:47 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 9:39 PM, olcott wrote:

    DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly reach its "return"
    instruction final halt state.
    Which is an invalid criterion for a decider, and even invalid for
    saying "never"

    It isn't a valid condition to talk about for a decider, so just like
    the Liar's Paradox, it is untrue.
    DDD emulating by HHH DOES REACH ITS OWN FINAL STATE?
    No. That's why it is simulating incorrectly.

    --
    Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
    It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Thu Nov 21 21:55:23 2024
    On 11/21/24 10:19 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The
    subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no larger context >>>>>>>>>> that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping".

    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N
    to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly
    reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return. >>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call. >>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH.

    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no
    matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is
    a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts.

    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is
    perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH

    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified
    for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" and "any >>>>>>>> DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language.


    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered
    on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023

    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D

    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your GitHub
    repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about
    this because you did not quote where I did this?

    You forget how many times you have posted the link to your "fully
    functioning code"?

    You can't have it both ways, either that *IS* the code of HHH.


    My code is one example of the infinite set of every possible
    HHH that emulates DDD according to the semantics of the x86
    language.

    But it gets the wrong answer for the halting problem, as DDD dpes halt.


    DDD emulated by HHH does not halt. You lie about this
    and condemn yourself to actual Hell. Are you a fake Christian?


    DDD emulated by HHH does not have a property that is like "halting".

    Halting is a semantic property of the "input".

    You have made it clear that your "Input" is the code of the non-leaf
    function DDD, whose behavior is NOT just a function of itself, but of
    other things, and without those other things specified, you have no
    semantic property to even talk about,.

    Your question is like the height of the color green.

    I do not lie, but then you have shown that you don't actually understand
    the meaning of what Truth actually is. You might be able to quote words
    that define it, but you don't actually know what those means, as you are
    unable to actually apply them.

    Sorry, but YOU are the one that has punched yourself a one-way ticket to Gehanna, and unless you repent soon, you may find your eternity is spent working out the behavior of your infinite set of inputs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Fri Nov 22 10:30:45 2024
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The subject line >>>>>>>> does not specify which mapping and there is no larger context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping".

    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N
    to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly
    reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return.
    Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call.
    Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH.

    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no
    matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is
    a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts.

    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH

    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified
    for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" and "any DDD" >>>>>> bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language.


    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered
    on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023

    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D


    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your GitHub repository. >>>>

    Should I assume that you must be lying about
    this because you did not quote where I did this?

    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of clarity and
    in particular by your bad choice of names.

    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH that you have
    in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the possiblity
    that you just triying to deceive by equivcation.


    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances
    such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.

    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every member of some
    set.

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From joes@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 22 12:20:02 2024
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:19:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/21/2024 3:11 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:19:03 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:
    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The >>>>>>>>>>>> subject line does not specify which mapping and there is no >>>>>>>>>>>> larger context that could specify that. Therefore it should >>>>>>>>>>>> be "a mapping".
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    My code is one example of the infinite set of every possible HHH
    that emulates DDD according to the semantics of the x86 language.
    Like all of them, it is unable to simulate DDD to its undeniable
    halting state.
    In your case you may simply not even understand what infinite recursion
    is, thus cannot see the isomorphism.


    But it gets the wrong answer for the halting problem, as DDD dpes
    halt.
    DDD emulated by HHH does not halt.
    Whatever. DDD halts and HHH should return that.
    IT IS NOT THE SAME INSTANCE OF DDD.
    All instances of DDD behave the same (if it is a pure function and
    the HHH called from it doesn't switch behaviour by a static variable).

    HHH is reporting on the behavior of its INPUT.
    And its input is (the encoding of) DDD.

    HHH is not reporting on the behavior of some other different DDD
    instance that behaves differently.
    You mean the same DDD when it is not simulated?

    I can make a "decider" this way: it simulates no steps at all and
    returns that all inputs halt when simulated by it.
    Then it is never wrong about its own result.

    Are you a fake Christian?
    I am a fake Scientologist.
    That may be the correct Scientologist to be.
    We can solve this conundrum by rejecting Scientologists as incorrect.

    --
    Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
    It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From joes@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 22 15:16:47 2024
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:50:33 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/22/2024 6:20 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:19:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/21/2024 3:11 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:19:03 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:
    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject line does not specify which mapping and there is no >>>>>>>>>>>>>> larger context that could specify that. Therefore it should >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be "a mapping".
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    My code is one example of the infinite set of every possible HHH >>>>>>> that emulates DDD according to the semantics of the x86 language.
    Like all of them, it is unable to simulate DDD to its undeniable
    halting state.

    But it gets the wrong answer for the halting problem, as DDD dpes
    halt.
    DDD emulated by HHH does not halt.
    Whatever. DDD halts and HHH should return that.
    IT IS NOT THE SAME INSTANCE OF DDD.
    All instances of DDD behave the same (if it is a pure function and the
    HHH called from it doesn't switch behaviour by a static variable).
    Only HHH is required to be a pure function, DDD is expressly allowed to
    be any damn thing.
    TMs don't have side effects, such as reading a static Root variable.

    The behavior of DDD emulated by HHH is
    different than the actual behavior of DDD emulated by HHH1.
    Yes. HHH simulates it incorrectly.

    Note we have been on this one point about the behavior of DDD emulated
    by HHH for many months and have not yet even begun to talk about how HHH would report this behavior.
    Yes, you seem hellbent on dying before you can make your point.

    The question does DDD halt?
    Is answered by Can DDD emulated by any HHH reach its own "return"
    instruction final state?
    Not in the case of an erroneous simulation.
    If DDD halts, you can simply run it to find out.

    The question: How could HHH determine whether or not DDD emulated by HHH
    can possibly reach its own final state?
    is another entirely different question.
    It seems very relevant. Since you have an answer to the former question,
    maybe you can proceed to this one?

    --
    Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
    It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Fri Nov 22 11:43:57 2024
    On 11/22/24 9:50 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 6:20 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:19:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/21/2024 3:11 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:19:03 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:
    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject line does not specify which mapping and there is no >>>>>>>>>>>>>> larger context that could specify that. Therefore it should >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be "a mapping".
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    My code is one example of the infinite set of every possible HHH >>>>>>> that emulates DDD according to the semantics of the x86 language.
    Like all of them, it is unable to simulate DDD to its undeniable
    halting state.
    In your case you may simply not even understand what infinite recursion
    is, thus cannot see the isomorphism.


    But it gets the wrong answer for the halting problem, as DDD dpes
    halt.
    DDD emulated by HHH does not halt.
    Whatever. DDD halts and HHH should return that.
    IT IS NOT THE SAME INSTANCE OF DDD.
    All instances of DDD behave the same (if it is a pure function and
    the HHH called from it doesn't switch behaviour by a static variable).


    Only HHH is required to be a pure function, DDD is expressly
    allowed to be any damn thing. The actual behavior of DDD
    emulated by HHH is different than the actual behavior of DDD
    emulated by HHH1.

    But that means your question doesn't HAVE an answer, as if you can't
    tell the answer from JUST the input DDD, then that input doesn't have an answer.

    You are just proving you don't don't understand the basics of truth.


    *ONLY BECAUSE DDD CALLS HHH AND DDD DOES NOT CALL HHH1*
    Even Mike does not seem to be able to understand this.

    But that is just part of the definition of DDD. If HHH is defined as to
    what it is, then DDD calling HHH is FULLY DEFINED and now an answer exists.

    If DDD is allowed to change what it calls even if that new thing has the
    "same name" (which is just a form of lying by equivocation) then the
    behavior of DDD is just not defined.


    Note we have been on this one point about the behavior of
    DDD emulated by HHH for many months and have not yet even
    begun to talk about how HHH would report this behavior.


    And, as has been pointed out to you for just as long, your question is
    just invalid, and to actually ask the question, you need to FULLY
    include the definiton of DDD, which means it includes the code for HHH,
    and omitting it just proves your stupidity.

    The question does DDD halt?

    Right, and that is a SEMANTIC property of the input, which REQUIRES it
    to be an actual computation, which means ALL its code must be fully
    defined, which your DDD doesn't do, so the question is just invalid.

    That is like asking what is the sum of 1 and?

    Or how tall is green.

    It is just nonsense, and your failure to understand that just proves
    your own stupidity,

    Is answered by Can DDD emulated by any HHH reach its own
    "return" instruction final state?

    Nope, because "Not Halting" is only defined by the inability of an
    UNBOUNDED emulation of the input not reaching a final state.

    You are just using the wrong definition of "Halting", and making it a non-semantic property.

    You are just admitting that your whole premise is just a decietful
    strawman arguement.

    But since your idea of logic seems to include seeing how many fallacies
    you can use, that isn't surprising.


    The question: How could HHH determine whether or not DDD
    emulated by HHH can possibly reach its own final state?
    is another entirely different question.


    Yes, but since yoiu

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Fri Nov 22 11:58:00 2024
    On 11/22/24 11:45 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The
    subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no larger context >>>>>>>>>> that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping".

    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N
    to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly
    reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return. >>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call. >>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH.

    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no
    matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is
    a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts.

    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is
    perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH

    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified
    for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" and "any >>>>>>>> DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language.


    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered
    on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023

    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D

    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your GitHub
    repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about
    this because you did not quote where I did this?

    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of clarity and
    in particular by your bad choice of names.

    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH that you have
    in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the possiblity
    that you just triying to deceive by equivcation.


    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances
    such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.

    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every member of some
    set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances"




    And one thing can't be an infinite set.

    You can't "run" an infinte set of deciders to get *AN* answer.

    You are just showing your logic isn't based on "truth", by your own lies
    based on redefining words that have established meaning, perhaps because
    you are too stupid to understand their meaning, but you have move that
    error to outside the bound of "honest mistake" by your repeated
    insistance, taking it to a reckless disregard for the truth.

    Sorry, but that is just how it is, and if you are too stupid to
    understand that, that is your problem.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From joes@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 22 18:07:22 2024
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 10:36:25 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/22/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:50:33 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/22/2024 6:20 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:19:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/21/2024 3:11 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:19:03 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:
    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject line does not specify which mapping and there is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no larger context that could specify that. Therefore it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be "a mapping".
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    But it gets the wrong answer for the halting problem, as DDD dpes >>>>>>>> halt.
    DDD emulated by HHH does not halt.
    Whatever. DDD halts and HHH should return that.
    IT IS NOT THE SAME INSTANCE OF DDD.
    All instances of DDD behave the same (if it is a pure function and
    the HHH called from it doesn't switch behaviour by a static
    variable).
    Only HHH is required to be a pure function, DDD is expressly allowed
    to be any damn thing.
    TMs don't have side effects, such as reading a static Root variable.
    The static root variable has not one damn thing to do with the
    fact that DDD emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own "return" instruction.
    It does. If it were always set to True, all instances of the same HHH
    would abort and halt. Why else would it be there?

    The behavior of DDD emulated by HHH is different than the actual
    behavior of DDD emulated by HHH1.
    Yes. HHH simulates it incorrectly.
    --
    Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
    It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Fri Nov 22 13:37:10 2024
    On 11/22/24 1:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 12:07 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 10:36:25 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/22/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:50:33 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/22/2024 6:20 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:19:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/21/2024 3:11 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:19:03 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:
    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject line does not specify which mapping and there is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no larger context that could specify that. Therefore it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be "a mapping".
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    But it gets the wrong answer for the halting problem, as DDD dpes >>>>>>>>>> halt.
    DDD emulated by HHH does not halt.
    Whatever. DDD halts and HHH should return that.
    IT IS NOT THE SAME INSTANCE OF DDD.
    All instances of DDD behave the same (if it is a pure function and >>>>>> the HHH called from it doesn't switch behaviour by a static
    variable).
    Only HHH is required to be a pure function, DDD is expressly allowed >>>>> to be any damn thing.
    TMs don't have side effects, such as reading a static Root variable.
    The static root variable has not one damn thing to do with the
    fact that DDD emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own "return"
    instruction.
    It does. If it were always set to True, all instances of the same HHH
    would abort and halt. Why else would it be there?


    WE HAVE NOT BEEN TALKING ABOUT ABORT/NOT ABORT
    FOR THREE FREAKING MONTHS. WAKE THE F-CK UP.

    WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT DDD EMULATED BY HHH
    REACHING ITS FINAL HALT STATE


    So, does HHH abort or not abort it emulation?

    If it aborts, then its emulation is only partial, and thus doesn't
    determine "not halting", is your claim is invalid.

    If it doesn't, it never answers, so your claim is invalid.

    Either way, your claim is invalid and you are shown to be a liar.

    The problem is that your DDD doesn't *HAVE* a "Halting Behavior" as it
    isn't the right category of thing which have that, which is PROGRAMS
    (which include leaf functions).

    DDD being a non-leaf function with HHH not included as part of it, just
    can not be "correctly emulated", so your claom that HHH does a correct emulation is just a LIE.

    Your problem is that you have just filled your head with nonsense so you
    don't know what you are talking about, and brainwashed yourself to be
    unable to notice.

    Since you have turned yourself into a habitual liar, your destiny is
    that of all such habitual liars, that lake of fire.

    Sorry, that is the facts unless you can break yourself out of your own brainwashing.

    The behavior of DDD emulated by HHH is different than the actual
    behavior of DDD emulated by HHH1.
    Yes. HHH simulates it incorrectly.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Fri Nov 22 15:03:08 2024
    On 11/22/24 1:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 12:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 1:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 12:07 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 10:36:25 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/22/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:50:33 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/22/2024 6:20 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:19:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/21/2024 3:11 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:19:03 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:
    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The
    subject line does not specify which mapping and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is
    no larger context that could specify that. Therefore it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be "a mapping".
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    But it gets the wrong answer for the halting problem, as DDD >>>>>>>>>>>> dpes
    halt.
    DDD emulated by HHH does not halt.
    Whatever. DDD halts and HHH should return that.
    IT IS NOT THE SAME INSTANCE OF DDD.
    All instances of DDD behave the same (if it is a pure function and >>>>>>>> the HHH called from it doesn't switch behaviour by a static
    variable).
    Only HHH is required to be a pure function, DDD is expressly allowed >>>>>>> to be any damn thing.
    TMs don't have side effects, such as reading a static Root variable. >>>>> The static root variable has not one damn thing to do with the
    fact that DDD emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own "return" >>>>> instruction.
    It does. If it were always set to True, all instances of the same HHH
    would abort and halt. Why else would it be there?


    WE HAVE NOT BEEN TALKING ABOUT ABORT/NOT ABORT
    FOR THREE FREAKING MONTHS. WAKE THE F-CK UP.

    WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT DDD EMULATED BY HHH
    REACHING ITS FINAL HALT STATE


    So, does HHH abort or not abort it emulation?


    Of the infinite set of every HHH that emulates N steps
    of DDD no DDD ever reaches its final halt state.


    So?

    Without including HHH in the input, at least implicitly, they couldn't
    have done what you said, so you are admitting that the actual input DDD
    must include the code of HHH, or you are just a liar.

    Of that infinite set, all the ones that abort don't define their input
    as non-halting by aborting, and the ACTUAL unbounded emulation of their
    inputs (when you include the HHH that answered as part of the input)
    will reach the final state, so they are wrong per the ACTUAL definition
    of halting.

    And, all the ones that don't abort, fail to answer, so they are wrong as
    halt deciders.

    Since we had to add the HHH that they call, and which you claim to be
    answering about it, each of those inputs is a different input, so
    different behavior is ok.

    The fact that it is different, says it is actually impossible to correct
    ask about the input without that added information about HHH.


    Sorry, you are just proving yourself to be the liar.,

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Fri Nov 22 18:03:51 2024
    On 11/22/24 5:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 2:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 1:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 12:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 1:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 12:07 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 10:36:25 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/22/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:50:33 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/22/2024 6:20 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:19:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/21/2024 3:11 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:19:03 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The
    subject line does not specify which mapping and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is
    no larger context that could specify that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore it
    should be "a mapping".
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    But it gets the wrong answer for the halting problem, as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD dpes
    halt.
    DDD emulated by HHH does not halt.
    Whatever. DDD halts and HHH should return that.
    IT IS NOT THE SAME INSTANCE OF DDD.
    All instances of DDD behave the same (if it is a pure function >>>>>>>>>> and
    the HHH called from it doesn't switch behaviour by a static >>>>>>>>>> variable).
    Only HHH is required to be a pure function, DDD is expressly >>>>>>>>> allowed
    to be any damn thing.
    TMs don't have side effects, such as reading a static Root
    variable.
    The static root variable has not one damn thing to do with the
    fact that DDD emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own "return" >>>>>>> instruction.
    It does. If it were always set to True, all instances of the same HHH >>>>>> would abort and halt. Why else would it be there?


    WE HAVE NOT BEEN TALKING ABOUT ABORT/NOT ABORT
    FOR THREE FREAKING MONTHS. WAKE THE F-CK UP.

    WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT DDD EMULATED BY HHH
    REACHING ITS FINAL HALT STATE


    So, does HHH abort or not abort it emulation?


    Of the infinite set of every HHH that emulates N steps
    of DDD no DDD ever reaches its final halt state.


    So?

    Without including HHH in the input, at least implicitly, they couldn't
    have done what you said, so you are admitting that the actual input
    DDD must include the code of HHH, or you are just a liar.


    You are just trying to get away with changing the subject.
    The question is: Can DDD emulated by any HHH possibly
    reach its final halt state.


    The question (in computation theory) CAN'T be that, is it isn't a valid question, as it isn't an objective quesiton about just DDD.

    Sorry, but you are just showing your stupidity with trying to pass of
    your strawman as a replacement for the halting problem.

    You don't even seem to know enough about what is in the domain of the
    logic you are talking about.

    Your DDD, being a non-leaf C function, can't be emulated, and doesn't
    have "halting" as a property to be decided.

    Thus, HHH can't emulate "the input", but needs to improperly presume
    things not stated, and thus you logic is just invalid.

    You are showing that you are nothing but a ignorant pathological liar.

    If you want to talk about some mythological hypothetical alternate
    system, you first need to fully DEFINE it, its axioms and its rules.

    This, as you have made clear, is clearly beyound your ability, so you
    just resort to your ignorant lying about what you are talking about, use meaningless double-talk and equivocations and every fallacy you can get
    your hands on.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Fri Nov 22 19:23:51 2024
    On 11/22/24 6:56 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 5:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 5:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 2:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 1:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 12:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 1:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 12:07 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 10:36:25 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/22/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:50:33 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/22/2024 6:20 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:19:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/21/2024 3:11 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:19:03 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The
    subject line does not specify which mapping and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is
    no larger context that could specify that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore it
    should be "a mapping".
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    But it gets the wrong answer for the halting problem, as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD dpes
    halt.
    DDD emulated by HHH does not halt.
    Whatever. DDD halts and HHH should return that.
    IT IS NOT THE SAME INSTANCE OF DDD.
    All instances of DDD behave the same (if it is a pure
    function and
    the HHH called from it doesn't switch behaviour by a static >>>>>>>>>>>> variable).
    Only HHH is required to be a pure function, DDD is expressly >>>>>>>>>>> allowed
    to be any damn thing.
    TMs don't have side effects, such as reading a static Root >>>>>>>>>> variable.
    The static root variable has not one damn thing to do with the >>>>>>>>> fact that DDD emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own
    "return"
    instruction.
    It does. If it were always set to True, all instances of the
    same HHH
    would abort and halt. Why else would it be there?


    WE HAVE NOT BEEN TALKING ABOUT ABORT/NOT ABORT
    FOR THREE FREAKING MONTHS. WAKE THE F-CK UP.

    WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT DDD EMULATED BY HHH
    REACHING ITS FINAL HALT STATE


    So, does HHH abort or not abort it emulation?


    Of the infinite set of every HHH that emulates N steps
    of DDD no DDD ever reaches its final halt state.


    So?

    Without including HHH in the input, at least implicitly, they
    couldn't have done what you said, so you are admitting that the
    actual input DDD must include the code of HHH, or you are just a liar. >>>>

    You are just trying to get away with changing the subject.
    The question is: Can DDD emulated by any HHH possibly
    reach its final halt state.


    The question (in computation theory) CAN'T be that, is it isn't a
    valid question, as it isn't an objective quesiton about just DDD.


    In other words you are trying to get away pretending that
    the fact that DDD defines a pathological relationship to
    HHH can be simply ignored. How is that not stupid?





    No, but it does mean that HHH needs to CORRECTLY handle that
    relationship, which is that it needs to understand that the HHH that DDD
    calls will do exactly what it does.

    The "pathology" of the relationship doesn't change the rules for how
    anythibng works, just makes it that a simple emulation can't handle the problem.

    You still have the problem that your DDD isn't a valid input for a
    semantic decider as it isn't a semantically valid input, having missing
    code.

    You are just proving your utter stupidity, and that you believe that
    lies are allowed in logic. Sorry, but that is the fact, the input to a
    semantic decider MUST be a COMPLETE set of code, including the code of
    all sub-functions used.

    Until you define what you "alternate" system is based on, you are stuck
    with those rules, and are just proving that you are a pathological liar
    by ignoring them,

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Fri Nov 22 20:49:51 2024
    On 11/22/24 7:47 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 6:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 6:56 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 5:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 5:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 2:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 1:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 12:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 1:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 12:07 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 10:36:25 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/22/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:50:33 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/22/2024 6:20 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:19:43 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:11 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:19:03 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The
    subject line does not specify which mapping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and there is
    no larger context that could specify that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore it
    should be "a mapping".
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>
    But it gets the wrong answer for the halting problem, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as DDD dpes
    halt.
    DDD emulated by HHH does not halt.
    Whatever. DDD halts and HHH should return that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IT IS NOT THE SAME INSTANCE OF DDD.
    All instances of DDD behave the same (if it is a pure >>>>>>>>>>>>>> function and
    the HHH called from it doesn't switch behaviour by a static >>>>>>>>>>>>>> variable).
    Only HHH is required to be a pure function, DDD is
    expressly allowed
    to be any damn thing.
    TMs don't have side effects, such as reading a static Root >>>>>>>>>>>> variable.
    The static root variable has not one damn thing to do with the >>>>>>>>>>> fact that DDD emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own >>>>>>>>>>> "return"
    instruction.
    It does. If it were always set to True, all instances of the >>>>>>>>>> same HHH
    would abort and halt. Why else would it be there?


    WE HAVE NOT BEEN TALKING ABOUT ABORT/NOT ABORT
    FOR THREE FREAKING MONTHS. WAKE THE F-CK UP.

    WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT DDD EMULATED BY HHH
    REACHING ITS FINAL HALT STATE


    So, does HHH abort or not abort it emulation?


    Of the infinite set of every HHH that emulates N steps
    of DDD no DDD ever reaches its final halt state.


    So?

    Without including HHH in the input, at least implicitly, they
    couldn't have done what you said, so you are admitting that the
    actual input DDD must include the code of HHH, or you are just a
    liar.


    You are just trying to get away with changing the subject.
    The question is: Can DDD emulated by any HHH possibly
    reach its final halt state.


    The question (in computation theory) CAN'T be that, is it isn't a
    valid question, as it isn't an objective quesiton about just DDD.


    In other words you are trying to get away pretending that
    the fact that DDD defines a pathological relationship to
    HHH can be simply ignored. How is that not stupid?





    No, but it does mean that HHH needs to CORRECTLY handle that
    relationship, which is that it needs to understand that the HHH that
    DDD calls will do exactly what it does.


    Always lacks enough execution trace data to do
    what the outermost HHH does.



    Exfept that it DOES when you apply the definition of Semantic, which
    means executed/emulated to completion.

    It isn't the emulation by HHH that matters, as that is a subjective, non-semantic operation, but the FULL emulation of the input, which is
    the OBJECTIVE and SEMANTIC operation.

    And, you still haven't answered about the INVALID input of a
    non-semantic description, since you claim the description of DDD doesn't include the code of HHH, so HHH can't actually correctly emulate the
    INPUT since the needed information isn't there, which is what makes your concept just subjective garbabe.

    Sorry, but you ignoring the errors just shows that you are just making a reckless disregard for the truth, and thus your pathological liar are
    really just lies.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Fri Nov 22 21:41:07 2024
    On 11/22/24 9:07 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 7:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 7:47 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 6:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 6:56 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 5:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 5:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 2:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 1:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 12:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 1:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 12:07 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 10:36:25 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/22/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:50:33 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 6:20 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:19:43 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:11 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:19:03 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The
    subject line does not specify which mapping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and there is
    no larger context that could specify that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore it
    should be "a mapping". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>
    But it gets the wrong answer for the halting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem, as DDD dpes
    halt.
    DDD emulated by HHH does not halt.
    Whatever. DDD halts and HHH should return that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IT IS NOT THE SAME INSTANCE OF DDD.
    All instances of DDD behave the same (if it is a pure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> function and
    the HHH called from it doesn't switch behaviour by a static >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> variable).
    Only HHH is required to be a pure function, DDD is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expressly allowed
    to be any damn thing.
    TMs don't have side effects, such as reading a static Root >>>>>>>>>>>>>> variable.
    The static root variable has not one damn thing to do with the >>>>>>>>>>>>> fact that DDD emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own >>>>>>>>>>>>> "return"
    instruction.
    It does. If it were always set to True, all instances of the >>>>>>>>>>>> same HHH
    would abort and halt. Why else would it be there?


    WE HAVE NOT BEEN TALKING ABOUT ABORT/NOT ABORT
    FOR THREE FREAKING MONTHS. WAKE THE F-CK UP.

    WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT DDD EMULATED BY HHH
    REACHING ITS FINAL HALT STATE


    So, does HHH abort or not abort it emulation?


    Of the infinite set of every HHH that emulates N steps
    of DDD no DDD ever reaches its final halt state.


    So?

    Without including HHH in the input, at least implicitly, they
    couldn't have done what you said, so you are admitting that the >>>>>>>> actual input DDD must include the code of HHH, or you are just a >>>>>>>> liar.


    You are just trying to get away with changing the subject.
    The question is: Can DDD emulated by any HHH possibly
    reach its final halt state.


    The question (in computation theory) CAN'T be that, is it isn't a
    valid question, as it isn't an objective quesiton about just DDD.


    In other words you are trying to get away pretending that
    the fact that DDD defines a pathological relationship to
    HHH can be simply ignored. How is that not stupid?





    No, but it does mean that HHH needs to CORRECTLY handle that
    relationship, which is that it needs to understand that the HHH that
    DDD calls will do exactly what it does.


    Always lacks enough execution trace data to do
    what the outermost HHH does.



    Exfept that it DOES when you apply the definition of Semantic, which
    means executed/emulated to completion.


    How many times are you going to insist on the stupid nitwit
    idea of emulating a non-terminating input to completion?
    *DDD emulated by HHH HAS NO FREAKING COMPLETION NITWIT*


    How many times will you just refuse to accept the DEFINITION?

    And, how many times will you just ignore that the below input can not be emulated past the call HHH instructioon.

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]



    All you are doing is PROVING that you are nothing but a totally ignorant pathetic pathological lying idiot that just recklessly disregards the
    truth to maintain his lie.

    The fact that you do nothing to defend against these charges is just
    showing that you are really accepting them.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Fri Nov 22 22:58:59 2024
    On 11/22/24 10:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 8:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 9:07 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 7:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 7:47 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 6:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 6:56 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 5:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 5:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 2:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 1:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 12:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 1:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 12:07 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 10:36:25 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:50:33 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 6:20 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:19:43 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:11 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:19:03 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not correct. The
    subject line does not specify which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mapping and there is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no larger context that could specify that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore it
    should be "a mapping". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    But it gets the wrong answer for the halting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem, as DDD dpes
    halt.
    DDD emulated by HHH does not halt.
    Whatever. DDD halts and HHH should return that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IT IS NOT THE SAME INSTANCE OF DDD.
    All instances of DDD behave the same (if it is a pure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> function and
    the HHH called from it doesn't switch behaviour by a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> static
    variable).
    Only HHH is required to be a pure function, DDD is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expressly allowed
    to be any damn thing.
    TMs don't have side effects, such as reading a static >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Root variable.
    The static root variable has not one damn thing to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the
    fact that DDD emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own "return"
    instruction.
    It does. If it were always set to True, all instances of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same HHH
    would abort and halt. Why else would it be there?


    WE HAVE NOT BEEN TALKING ABOUT ABORT/NOT ABORT
    FOR THREE FREAKING MONTHS. WAKE THE F-CK UP.

    WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT DDD EMULATED BY HHH
    REACHING ITS FINAL HALT STATE


    So, does HHH abort or not abort it emulation?


    Of the infinite set of every HHH that emulates N steps
    of DDD no DDD ever reaches its final halt state.


    So?

    Without including HHH in the input, at least implicitly, they >>>>>>>>>> couldn't have done what you said, so you are admitting that >>>>>>>>>> the actual input DDD must include the code of HHH, or you are >>>>>>>>>> just a liar.


    You are just trying to get away with changing the subject.
    The question is: Can DDD emulated by any HHH possibly
    reach its final halt state.


    The question (in computation theory) CAN'T be that, is it isn't >>>>>>>> a valid question, as it isn't an objective quesiton about just DDD. >>>>>>>>

    In other words you are trying to get away pretending that
    the fact that DDD defines a pathological relationship to
    HHH can be simply ignored. How is that not stupid?





    No, but it does mean that HHH needs to CORRECTLY handle that
    relationship, which is that it needs to understand that the HHH
    that DDD calls will do exactly what it does.


    Always lacks enough execution trace data to do
    what the outermost HHH does.



    Exfept that it DOES when you apply the definition of Semantic, which
    means executed/emulated to completion.


    How many times are you going to insist on the stupid nitwit
    idea of emulating a non-terminating input to completion?
    *DDD emulated by HHH HAS NO FREAKING COMPLETION NITWIT*


    How many times will you just refuse to accept the DEFINITION?

    And, how many times will you just ignore that the below input can not
    be emulated past the call HHH instructioon.


    That is what you have been denying.

    No, You have been LYING by having your HHH go past it. By your
    definition of DDD as just the "C Function" it is IMPOSSIBLE to correct
    emulate past the call instruction as there is no defined behavior
    specified by the input.

    That means your HHH is NOT the "pure function" you claim it to be, as it
    has some other input that it is using to go past there.

    Therefore, you are just admitting to being a LIAR about HHH "Correctly emulating" the input.


    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]



    All you are doing is PROVING that you are nothing but a totally
    ignorant pathetic pathological lying idiot that just recklessly
    disregards the truth to maintain his lie.

    The fact that you do nothing to defend against these charges is just
    showing that you are really accepting them.


    When I back you into a corner making you look stupid
    you simply agree with what I said like you just agreed.


    SO, you agree that your logic is invalid?

    Or, are you just admitting that you don't understand what I am saying?

    DDD, as the non-leaf function you have recently made clear by saying you
    are only looking at the "C Funtion" and not a "Program" CAN NOT BE
    "CORRECTLY" EMULATED, as you can't go past the call instruction, because
    you don't have a definition as part of the input as to what happens there.

    Thus, your claim is just totally invalid.

    When we fix the input, by including the code for HHH, so we can talk
    about the behavior of its emulation, we get the different problem that
    the partial emulation done by HHH isn't the semantic property that is
    halting.

    Thus, your claim is doubly wrong, not even fixed by the obvious method
    required by the problem.

    Sorry, you are just proving your utter stupidity, and that you are
    nothing but a pathological lying idiot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Sat Nov 23 09:59:49 2024
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no larger context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping".

    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N
    to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly
    reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return. >>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call. >>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH.

    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no
    matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is
    a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts.

    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH

    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified
    for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" and "any DDD" >>>>>>>> bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language.


    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered
    on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023

    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D


    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about
    this because you did not quote where I did this?

    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of clarity and
    in particular by your bad choice of names.

    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH that you have
    in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the possiblity
    that you just triying to deceive by equivcation.


    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances
    such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.

    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every member of some
    set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances"

    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"?

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Sat Nov 23 10:02:20 2024
    On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The >>>>>>>>>>>> subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no larger
    context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping".

    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N
    to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly
    reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return. >>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call. >>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH.

    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no
    matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is
    a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts.

    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is >>>>>>>>>>>> perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH

    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified
    for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" and >>>>>>>>>> "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language.


    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered
    on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023

    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D

    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your GitHub
    repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about
    this because you did not quote where I did this?

    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of clarity and >>>>>> in particular by your bad choice of names.

    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH that you have >>>>>> in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the possiblity >>>>>> that you just triying to deceive by equivcation.


    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances
    such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.

    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every member of some
    set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances"

    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"?


    One element of an infinite set does not say there
    is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set.


    But one element of an infinite set is not the infinite set.

    You are just showing that your logic is based on proven incorrect set
    theory.

    IF HHH is an ELEMENT of the set, then it is that one element for the
    entire evaluation, and thus since THIS HHH (if it answers) aborts its simulation and returns, then the HHH that DDD calls will also abort and
    return to DDD and thus DDD will halt.

    DDD can't call "a set of functions", and we can not run a "set of
    functions", thus DDD is also an infinite set of functions, each pair
    with a given HHH that it calls.

    So, it appears that you logic is built on an equivocation of having two different meanings for the terms HHH and DDD, and from that you build
    your strawman.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Sat Nov 23 10:35:38 2024
    On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no larger >>>>>>>>>>>>>> context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping".

    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH

    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified >>>>>>>>>>>>> for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" and >>>>>>>>>>>> "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language.


    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered
    on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023

    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D

    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your GitHub >>>>>>>>>> repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about
    this because you did not quote where I did this?

    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of clarity and >>>>>>>> in particular by your bad choice of names.

    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH that you have >>>>>>>> in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the possiblity >>>>>>>> that you just triying to deceive by equivcation.


    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances
    such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.

    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every member of some >>>>>> set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances"

    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"?


    One element of an infinite set does not say there
    is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set.


    But one element of an infinite set is not the infinite set.

    You are just showing that your logic is based on proven incorrect set
    theory.

    IF HHH is an ELEMENT of the set, then it is that one element for the
    entire evaluation,

    Liar:

    A proof by induction consists of two cases. The first, the base case,
    proves the statement for n=0 without assuming any knowledge of
    other cases. The second case, the induction step, proves that if the statement holds for any given case n=k, then it must also hold for
    the next case n=k+1. These two steps establish that the statement
    holds for every natural number n. The base case does not necessarily
    begin with n=0, but often with n=1, and possibly with any fixed natural number n=N, establishing the truth of the statement for all natural
    numbers n ≥ N.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction


    And when have you ever provided such a proof for your statement?

    NOWHERE

    Your problem is you don't even have a logical basis to express your
    statements in, so you can't do an induction on them.

    Remember, your DDD has been clarified to be a non-leaf function and
    explicitly does not include the HHH that it calls, and thus it is
    IMPOSSIBLE for a pure function to emulate past the call HHH, as there is
    no source of information about that available.

    All you are doing is proving that you are just fundamentally ignorant
    about how logic works.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Sat Nov 23 12:54:20 2024
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no larger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt state. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered >>>>>>>>>>>>> on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023 >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D

    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your >>>>>>>>>>>> GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about
    this because you did not quote where I did this?

    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of clarity >>>>>>>>>> and
    in particular by your bad choice of names.

    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH that you >>>>>>>>>> have
    in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the
    possiblity
    that you just triying to deceive by equivcation.


    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances
    such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.

    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, contradicting your >>>>>>>> earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every member of >>>>>>>> some
    set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances"

    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"?


    One element of an infinite set does not say there
    is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set.


    But one element of an infinite set is not the infinite set.

    You are just showing that your logic is based on proven incorrect
    set theory.

    IF HHH is an ELEMENT of the set, then it is that one element for the
    entire evaluation,

    Liar:

    A proof by induction consists of two cases. The first, the base case,
    proves the statement for n=0 without assuming any knowledge of
    other cases. The second case, the induction step, proves that if the
    statement holds for any given case n=k, then it must also hold for
    the next case n=k+1. These two steps establish that the statement
    holds for every natural number n. The base case does not necessarily
    begin with n=0, but often with n=1, and possibly with any fixed natural
    number n=N, establishing the truth of the statement for all natural
    numbers n ≥ N.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction


    And when have you ever provided such a proof for your statement?

    NOWHERE

    Your problem is you don't even have a logical basis to express your
    statements in, so you can't do an induction on them.



    So, you are just demonstrating that your "logic" is based on the
    meaningless use of buzzwords that you don't understand, but can parrot
    their unlearned meaning, but have no idea how to actually use.


    *As you already admitted below*
    when N steps of DDD are emulated by HHH
    DDD cannot reach past its call to HHH (statement)

    But that was for the DDD that INCLUDED HHH as part of it, which you have
    now made clear is NOT what you consider DDD to be. And for that case
    DDD[n] calls HHH[n] (where HHH[n] is the version of HHH that does only n
    steps of emulation) and while we can say that HHH[n[ does not emulate
    DDD[n] to its final state, that property is NOT a property of of DDD[n],
    but of HHH[n] and DDD[n] as its input. Partial emulation do not
    establish "never" properties, as they are non-semantic, the semantic
    property of DDD[n] reaching its final state or not is only
    demonstratable by looking at an unbounded emulation of that input (not necessarily done by the decider) and for DDD[n], for all finite n, we
    see that this emulation will reach a final state, so you claim of NEVER reaching a final state, and thus being able to say DDD is non-halting is
    false.


    Thus the induction result is proven:
    "the (above) statement holds for every natural number n."

    Which isn't an induction argument, thus showing your idiocy.


    On 11/22/2024 8:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 9:07 PM, olcott wrote:>

    And, how many times will you just ignore that
    the below input can not be emulated past the
    call HHH instructioon.

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD is the C function under test.
    HHH is not the C function under test.


    But, if that is ALL of DDD, and it is JUST the code of that C function,
    then there can not exist a pure function HHH that can emulate more than
    4 steps of that input, as to emulate the 5th step, it would need to know
    what is at 000015d2, but that is not part of the input, and to look at
    that memory address in its address space makes HHH a non-pure function,
    and thus proves you to be a liar.

    So, all you have done is PROVEN that you are just a stupid liar that has
    no idea what he is talking about.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Sat Nov 23 14:00:04 2024
    On 11/23/24 12:51 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 10:17 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 11:11 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 9:58 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 10:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 8:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 9:07 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 7:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 7:47 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 6:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 6:56 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 5:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 5:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 2:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 1:44 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 12:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/24 1:28 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2024 12:07 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 10:36:25 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:50:33 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 6:20 AM, joes wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:19:43 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:11 PM, joes wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:19:03 -0600 schrieb >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olcott:
    On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said:
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line is not correct. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject line does not specify which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mapping and there is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no larger context that could specify >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that. Therefore it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be "a mapping". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said:

    But it gets the wrong answer for the halting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem, as DDD dpes
    halt.
    DDD emulated by HHH does not halt. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever. DDD halts and HHH should return that. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IT IS NOT THE SAME INSTANCE OF DDD. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All instances of DDD behave the same (if it is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pure function and
    the HHH called from it doesn't switch behaviour >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by a static
    variable).
    Only HHH is required to be a pure function, DDD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is expressly allowed
    to be any damn thing.
    TMs don't have side effects, such as reading a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> static Root variable.
    The static root variable has not one damn thing to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do with the
    fact that DDD emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its own "return"
    instruction.
    It does. If it were always set to True, all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instances of the same HHH
    would abort and halt. Why else would it be there? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    WE HAVE NOT BEEN TALKING ABOUT ABORT/NOT ABORT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FOR THREE FREAKING MONTHS. WAKE THE F-CK UP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT DDD EMULATED BY HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> REACHING ITS FINAL HALT STATE


    So, does HHH abort or not abort it emulation? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Of the infinite set of every HHH that emulates N steps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of DDD no DDD ever reaches its final halt state. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    So?

    Without including HHH in the input, at least implicitly, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they couldn't have done what you said, so you are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> admitting that the actual input DDD must include the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code of HHH, or you are just a liar.


    You are just trying to get away with changing the subject. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The question is: Can DDD emulated by any HHH possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its final halt state.


    The question (in computation theory) CAN'T be that, is it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't a valid question, as it isn't an objective quesiton >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about just DDD.


    In other words you are trying to get away pretending that >>>>>>>>>>>>> the fact that DDD defines a pathological relationship to >>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH can be simply ignored. How is that not stupid?





    No, but it does mean that HHH needs to CORRECTLY handle that >>>>>>>>>>>> relationship, which is that it needs to understand that the >>>>>>>>>>>> HHH that DDD calls will do exactly what it does.


    Always lacks enough execution trace data to do
    what the outermost HHH does.



    Exfept that it DOES when you apply the definition of Semantic, >>>>>>>>>> which means executed/emulated to completion.


    How many times are you going to insist on the stupid nitwit
    idea of emulating a non-terminating input to completion?
    *DDD emulated by HHH HAS NO FREAKING COMPLETION NITWIT*


    How many times will you just refuse to accept the DEFINITION?

    And, how many times will you just ignore that the below input
    can not be emulated past the call HHH instructioon.


    That is what you have been denying.

    No, You have been LYING by having your HHH go past it.

    *a copy of my quote above that you have repeatedly denied*

    I haven't "denied" it, I have proven it to be nonsense.

    Of the infinite set of every HHH that emulates N steps >>>>>  >>>>>>>>>>>> of DDD no DDD ever reaches its final halt state.


    And the problem is that since your DDD don't contain the code for HHH,

    Then DDD simply calls HHH(DDD) in its shared memory space.
    Why act so stupidly?



    In other words, you admit that HHH isn't a pure function.


    On 11/22/2024 8:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 9:07 PM, olcott wrote:>

    And, how many times will you just ignore that
    the below input can not be emulated past the
    call HHH instructioon.

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    If the above point that DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly
    reach its own "ret" instruction final halt state is settled
    and mutually agreed to thenn (then and only then) can we move
    on to the next point.


    But your HHH isn't the required "Pure Function", if it emulates more
    than 4 x86 instructions, as it needs to process something that isn't
    part of its input, and thus your claim is just a nonsense lie.

    Since you are claimed that the input DDD is JUST those above
    instructions, that is ALL that HHH can use, and thus must ABORT its
    emulation at the call HHH instruction.

    When you provide the trace that goes past that, you are just PROVING
    that you claim is just a LIE.

    Sorry, you put your self not just in the corner, but off the edge of the
    cliff and are falling to your doom.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Sun Nov 24 12:22:17 2024
    On 2024-11-23 14:04:07 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no larger context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping".

    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N
    to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly
    reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return. >>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call. >>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH.

    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no
    matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is
    a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts.

    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH

    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified
    for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language.


    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered
    on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023

    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D


    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about
    this because you did not quote where I did this?

    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of clarity and >>>>>> in particular by your bad choice of names.

    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH that you have >>>>>> in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the possiblity >>>>>> that you just triying to deceive by equivcation.


    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances
    such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.

    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every member of some
    set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances"

    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"?

    One element of an infinite set does not say there
    is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set.

    True but irrelevant. An element of an infinite set is not that infinite
    set and in clase of HHH it is not a set at all. If the element has the
    same name as the set you have name conflict and any resulting confusion
    is your fault.

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Sun Nov 24 12:19:34 2024
    On 11/24/24 9:13 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 4:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-23 14:04:07 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no larger >>>>>>>>>>>>>> context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping".

    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH

    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified >>>>>>>>>>>>> for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" and >>>>>>>>>>>> "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language.


    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered
    on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023

    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D

    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your GitHub >>>>>>>>>> repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about
    this because you did not quote where I did this?

    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of clarity and >>>>>>>> in particular by your bad choice of names.

    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH that you have >>>>>>>> in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the possiblity >>>>>>>> that you just triying to deceive by equivcation.


    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances
    such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.

    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every member of some >>>>>> set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances"

    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"?

    One element of an infinite set does not say there
    is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set.

    True but irrelevant.

    The behavior of one element of that infinite set proves
    that every element of that infinite set has the same property:

    N steps of DDD emulated by HHH never reach their final
    "ret" instruction and halt.


    Nope, and the fact that "Halting" whoch you claim HHH corrected decides
    about, isn't based on your subjective and non-semantic criteria, just
    shows you are nothing but an ignorant liar.

    An element of an infinite set is not that infinite
    set and in clase of HHH it is not a set at all. If the element has the
    same name as the set you have name conflict and any resulting confusion
    is your fault.





    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Sun Nov 24 12:18:20 2024
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no larger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt state. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> return.
    Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call.
    Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D

    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about
    this because you did not quote where I did this?

    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of >>>>>>>>>>>> clarity and
    in particular by your bad choice of names.

    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH that >>>>>>>>>>>> you have
    in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the >>>>>>>>>>>> possiblity
    that you just triying to deceive by equivcation.


    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances >>>>>>>>>>> such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.

    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, contradicting your >>>>>>>>>> earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every member >>>>>>>>>> of some
    set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances"

    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"?


    One element of an infinite set does not say there
    is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set.


    But one element of an infinite set is not the infinite set.

    You are just showing that your logic is based on proven incorrect
    set theory.

    IF HHH is an ELEMENT of the set, then it is that one element for
    the entire evaluation,

    Liar:

    A proof by induction consists of two cases. The first, the base case, >>>>> proves the statement for n=0 without assuming any knowledge of
    other cases. The second case, the induction step, proves that if the >>>>> statement holds for any given case n=k, then it must also hold for
    the next case n=k+1. These two steps establish that the statement
    holds for every natural number n. The base case does not necessarily >>>>> begin with n=0, but often with n=1, and possibly with any fixed
    natural
    number n=N, establishing the truth of the statement for all natural
    numbers n ≥ N.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction


    And when have you ever provided such a proof for your statement?

    NOWHERE

    Your problem is you don't even have a logical basis to express your
    statements in, so you can't do an induction on them.



    So, you are just demonstrating that your "logic" is based on the
    meaningless use of buzzwords that you don't understand, but can parrot
    their unlearned meaning, but have no idea how to actually use.


    *As you already admitted below*
    when N steps of DDD are emulated by HHH
    DDD cannot reach past its call to HHH (statement)

    But that was for the DDD that INCLUDED HHH as part of it, which you
    have now made clear is NOT what you consider DDD to be. And for that
    case DDD[n] calls HHH[n] (where HHH[n] is the version of HHH that does
    only n steps of emulation) and while we can say that HHH[n[ does not
    emulate DDD[n] to its final state, that property is NOT a property of
    of DDD[n], but of HHH[n] and DDD[n] as its input.

    That every DDD[n] calls its HHH[n] in recursive emulation
    conclusively proves that no DDD[n] emulated by HHH[n] halts,
    thus each HHH[n] is correct to reject its input as non halting.

    But every HHH[n] aborts its emulaton and returns, and thus DDD[n] halts,
    and thus HHH is INCORRECT to call its input non-halting.

    Your problem, which you seem to ignorant to understand is that "DDD
    emulated by HHH" isn't a valid property for a decider, as it isn't an
    objective property, and depends on more than just the input.

    It also isn't a semantic property as your DDD doesn't HAVE semantic
    properties as you have explicitly denied it being so by explicitly
    excluding the HHH that it calls as being part of it.

    The closest objective semantic property to what you are trying to
    decribe is the Halting Property, but that is asking if the UNBOUNDED
    emulation of the input to HHH (not neccesarily done by HHH) would ever
    reach its final state, which it does.

    Sorry, you are just proving that you just don't understand what you are
    talking about.


     Partial emulation do not establish "never" properties, as they are
    non-semantic, the semantic property of DDD[n] reaching its final state
    or not is only demonstratable by looking at an unbounded emulation of
    that input (not necessarily done by the decider) and for DDD[n], for
    all finite n, we see that this emulation will reach a final state, so
    you claim of NEVER reaching a final state, and thus being able to say
    DDD is non-halting is false.


    Thus the induction result is proven:
    "the (above) statement holds for every natural number n."

    Which isn't an induction argument, thus showing your idiocy.


    On 11/22/2024 8:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 9:07 PM, olcott wrote:>
    ;
    And, how many times will you just ignore that
    the below input can not be emulated past the
    call HHH instructioon.
    ;
    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD is the C function under test.
    HHH is not the C function under test.


    But, if that is ALL of DDD, and it is JUST the code of that C
    function, then there can not exist a pure function HHH that can
    emulate more than 4 steps of that input, as to emulate the 5th step,
    it would need to know what is at 000015d2, but that is not part of the
    input, and to look at that memory address in its address space makes
    HHH a non-pure function, and thus proves you to be a liar.

    So, all you have done is PROVEN that you are just a stupid liar that
    has no idea what he is talking about.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Mon Nov 25 11:03:13 2024
    On 2024-11-24 14:13:22 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/24/2024 4:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-23 14:04:07 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no larger context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping".

    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH

    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified >>>>>>>>>>>>> for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language.


    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered
    on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023

    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D


    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about
    this because you did not quote where I did this?

    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of clarity and >>>>>>>> in particular by your bad choice of names.

    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH that you have >>>>>>>> in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the possiblity >>>>>>>> that you just triying to deceive by equivcation.


    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances
    such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.

    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every member of some >>>>>> set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances"

    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"?

    One element of an infinite set does not say there
    is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set.

    True but irrelevant.

    The behavior of one element of that infinite set proves
    that every element of that infinite set has the same property:

    No, it does not. The natural number 3 is an element of the infinite
    set of all natural numbers. It has the property of being a prime number.
    It does not prove that every natural number is a prime number.

    Which is irrelevant to the fact that you have used "HHH" in confilicting
    ways.

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Tue Nov 26 08:02:10 2024
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> larger context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt state. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> return.
    Because it cannot reach the instruction after the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH call.
    Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD" and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D

    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about
    this because you did not quote where I did this?

    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> clarity and
    in particular by your bad choice of names.

    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have
    in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> possiblity
    that you just triying to deceive by equivcation.


    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances >>>>>>>>>>>>> such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.

    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, contradicting >>>>>>>>>>>> your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every >>>>>>>>>>>> member of some
    set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances" >>>>>>>>>>
    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"?


    One element of an infinite set does not say there
    is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set.


    But one element of an infinite set is not the infinite set.

    You are just showing that your logic is based on proven
    incorrect set theory.

    IF HHH is an ELEMENT of the set, then it is that one element for >>>>>>>> the entire evaluation,

    Liar:

    A proof by induction consists of two cases. The first, the base
    case,
    proves the statement for n=0 without assuming any knowledge of
    other cases. The second case, the induction step, proves that if the >>>>>>> statement holds for any given case n=k, then it must also hold for >>>>>>> the next case n=k+1. These two steps establish that the statement >>>>>>> holds for every natural number n. The base case does not necessarily >>>>>>> begin with n=0, but often with n=1, and possibly with any fixed
    natural
    number n=N, establishing the truth of the statement for all natural >>>>>>> numbers n ≥ N.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction


    And when have you ever provided such a proof for your statement?

    NOWHERE

    Your problem is you don't even have a logical basis to express
    your statements in, so you can't do an induction on them.



    So, you are just demonstrating that your "logic" is based on the
    meaningless use of buzzwords that you don't understand, but can
    parrot their unlearned meaning, but have no idea how to actually use.


    *As you already admitted below*
    when N steps of DDD are emulated by HHH
    DDD cannot reach past its call to HHH (statement)

    But that was for the DDD that INCLUDED HHH as part of it, which you
    have now made clear is NOT what you consider DDD to be. And for that
    case DDD[n] calls HHH[n] (where HHH[n] is the version of HHH that
    does only n steps of emulation) and while we can say that
    HHH[n[ does not emulate DDD[n] to its final state, that property is
    NOT a property of of DDD[n], but of HHH[n] and DDD[n] as its input.

    That every DDD[n] calls its HHH[n] in recursive emulation
    conclusively proves that no DDD[n] emulated by HHH[n] halts,
    thus each HHH[n] is correct to reject its input as non halting.

    But every HHH[n] aborts its emulaton and returns, and thus DDD[n]
    halts, and thus HHH is INCORRECT to call its input non-halting.


    *You are a stupid liar*
    You know that halting means reaching a final state and you
    know that no input to HHH can possibly reach its final state.
    So you aren't just a liar, you are a stupid one.


    And you should know that "Halting" is a property of Turing Machines / Computations / Progrzms / completely defined function and the like ONLY.

    Since you have made it clear that input DDD does NOT include the code
    from the function HHH, then DDD is not in any of the above categories,
    and thus it does NOT have a "halting" property to be evaluated.

    You also should know that since halting is reaching a final state, "not halting" is NEVER reaching the final state, even after running or
    emulating the program for an unbounded number of steps, something HHH
    does do, so "emualtion by HHH" is not an operation that defines "not
    halting" or any related term. At best it can show that the emulation by
    HHH didn't reach the possible halting point of the input, and that is a prpperty of HHH more than the input.

    THus, you should know that the claim you keep repeating is nothing but a blantant and stupid LIE, or you are just admitting that your mental capabilities are so impared that you can not learn such a simple fact.

    I'm sorry, but that IS what you are demonstrating to the world, that you
    are so mentally incappable, that you can not learn the basic technical
    meaning of words, or that you are so pathological in nature, that you
    can not let yourself follow the rules of the system you find yourself in.

    Perhaps we should bring this behavior to the attention of the court and
    see if your child pornography case was just continued on the requirement
    of good behavior, and if this sort of anti-social behavior is a
    violation of it, since it becomes proof that you have a fundamental
    inability to control yourself to make yourself obey the rules, and thus
    might pose a danger to the community.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From olcott@21:1/5 to Richard Damon on Tue Nov 26 22:34:55 2024
    On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> larger context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt state. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> return.
    Because it cannot reach the instruction after the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH call.
    Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD" and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D

    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about
    this because you did not quote where I did this? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clarity and
    in particular by your bad choice of names.

    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you have
    in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possiblity
    that you just triying to deceive by equivcation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances >>>>>>>>>>>>>> such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.

    That sentence says that there is only one HHH,
    contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every >>>>>>>>>>>>> member of some
    set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances" >>>>>>>>>>>
    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"?


    One element of an infinite set does not say there
    is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set.


    But one element of an infinite set is not the infinite set.

    You are just showing that your logic is based on proven
    incorrect set theory.

    IF HHH is an ELEMENT of the set, then it is that one element >>>>>>>>> for the entire evaluation,

    Liar:

    A proof by induction consists of two cases. The first, the base >>>>>>>> case,
    proves the statement for n=0 without assuming any knowledge of >>>>>>>> other cases. The second case, the induction step, proves that if >>>>>>>> the
    statement holds for any given case n=k, then it must also hold for >>>>>>>> the next case n=k+1. These two steps establish that the statement >>>>>>>> holds for every natural number n. The base case does not
    necessarily
    begin with n=0, but often with n=1, and possibly with any fixed >>>>>>>> natural
    number n=N, establishing the truth of the statement for all natural >>>>>>>> numbers n ≥ N.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction


    And when have you ever provided such a proof for your statement? >>>>>>>
    NOWHERE

    Your problem is you don't even have a logical basis to express
    your statements in, so you can't do an induction on them.



    So, you are just demonstrating that your "logic" is based on the
    meaningless use of buzzwords that you don't understand, but can
    parrot their unlearned meaning, but have no idea how to actually use. >>>>>

    *As you already admitted below*
    when N steps of DDD are emulated by HHH
    DDD cannot reach past its call to HHH (statement)

    But that was for the DDD that INCLUDED HHH as part of it, which you
    have now made clear is NOT what you consider DDD to be. And for
    that case DDD[n] calls HHH[n] (where HHH[n] is the version of HHH
    that does only n steps of emulation) and while we can say that
    HHH[n[ does not emulate DDD[n] to its final state, that property is
    NOT a property of of DDD[n], but of HHH[n] and DDD[n] as its input.

    That every DDD[n] calls its HHH[n] in recursive emulation
    conclusively proves that no DDD[n] emulated by HHH[n] halts,
    thus each HHH[n] is correct to reject its input as non halting.

    But every HHH[n] aborts its emulaton and returns, and thus DDD[n]
    halts, and thus HHH is INCORRECT to call its input non-halting.


    *You are a stupid liar*
    You know that halting means reaching a final state and you
    know that no input to HHH can possibly reach its final state.
    So you aren't just a liar, you are a stupid one.


    And you should know that "Halting" is a property of Turing Machines / Computations / Progrzms / completely defined function and the like ONLY.


    I have already proved that halting is a property of C functions.
    You are not stupid, and you have good knowledge yet you do lie
    stupidly.

    --
    Copyright 2024 Olcott

    "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
    Genius hits a target no one else can see."
    Arthur Schopenhauer

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Nov 27 11:29:49 2024
    On 2024-11-27 04:34:55 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no larger context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt state. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return.
    Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call.
    Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D


    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this because you did not quote where I did this? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of clarity and
    in particular by your bad choice of names.

    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH that you have
    in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the possiblity
    that you just triying to deceive by equivcation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.

    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every member of some
    set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances" >>>>>>>>>>>>
    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"? >>>>>>>>>>>>

    One element of an infinite set does not say there
    is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set.


    But one element of an infinite set is not the infinite set. >>>>>>>>>>
    You are just showing that your logic is based on proven incorrect set theory.

    IF HHH is an ELEMENT of the set, then it is that one element for the >>>>>>>>>> entire evaluation,

    Liar:

    A proof by induction consists of two cases. The first, the base case, >>>>>>>>> proves the statement for n=0 without assuming any knowledge of >>>>>>>>> other cases. The second case, the induction step, proves that if the >>>>>>>>> statement holds for any given case n=k, then it must also hold for >>>>>>>>> the next case n=k+1. These two steps establish that the statement >>>>>>>>> holds for every natural number n. The base case does not necessarily >>>>>>>>> begin with n=0, but often with n=1, and possibly with any fixed natural
    number n=N, establishing the truth of the statement for all natural >>>>>>>>> numbers n ≥ N.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction


    And when have you ever provided such a proof for your statement? >>>>>>>>
    NOWHERE

    Your problem is you don't even have a logical basis to express your >>>>>>>> statements in, so you can't do an induction on them.



    So, you are just demonstrating that your "logic" is based on the
    meaningless use of buzzwords that you don't understand, but can parrot >>>>>> their unlearned meaning, but have no idea how to actually use.


    *As you already admitted below*
    when N steps of DDD are emulated by HHH
    DDD cannot reach past its call to HHH (statement)

    But that was for the DDD that INCLUDED HHH as part of it, which you >>>>>> have now made clear is NOT what you consider DDD to be. And for that >>>>>> case DDD[n] calls HHH[n] (where HHH[n] is the version of HHH that does >>>>>> only n steps of emulation) and while we can say that HHH[n[ does not >>>>>> emulate DDD[n] to its final state, that property is NOT a property of >>>>>> of DDD[n], but of HHH[n] and DDD[n] as its input.

    That every DDD[n] calls its HHH[n] in recursive emulation
    conclusively proves that no DDD[n] emulated by HHH[n] halts,
    thus each HHH[n] is correct to reject its input as non halting.

    But every HHH[n] aborts its emulaton and returns, and thus DDD[n]
    halts, and thus HHH is INCORRECT to call its input non-halting.


    *You are a stupid liar*
    You know that halting means reaching a final state and you
    know that no input to HHH can possibly reach its final state.
    So you aren't just a liar, you are a stupid one.


    And you should know that "Halting" is a property of Turing Machines /
    Computations / Progrzms / completely defined function and the like ONLY.


    I have already proved that halting is a property of C functions.
    You are not stupid, and you have good knowledge yet you do lie
    stupidly.

    So, does the function

    void ABC (void) {
    XYZ();
    }

    halt?

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Nov 27 12:14:38 2024
    olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> larger context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt state. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> return.
    Because it cannot reach the instruction after the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH call.
    Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD" and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D

    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this because you did not quote where I did this? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clarity and
    in particular by your bad choice of names.

    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you have
    in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possiblity
    that you just triying to deceive by equivcation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.

    That sentence says that there is only one HHH,
    contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every >>>>>>>>>>>>>> member of some
    set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances" >>>>>>>>>>>>
    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"? >>>>>>>>>>>>

    One element of an infinite set does not say there
    is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set.


    But one element of an infinite set is not the infinite set. >>>>>>>>>>
    You are just showing that your logic is based on proven
    incorrect set theory.

    IF HHH is an ELEMENT of the set, then it is that one element >>>>>>>>>> for the entire evaluation,

    Liar:

    A proof by induction consists of two cases. The first, the base >>>>>>>>> case,
    proves the statement for n=0 without assuming any knowledge of >>>>>>>>> other cases. The second case, the induction step, proves that if >>>>>>>>> the
    statement holds for any given case n=k, then it must also hold for >>>>>>>>> the next case n=k+1. These two steps establish that the statement >>>>>>>>> holds for every natural number n. The base case does not
    necessarily
    begin with n=0, but often with n=1, and possibly with any fixed >>>>>>>>> natural
    number n=N, establishing the truth of the statement for all natural >>>>>>>>> numbers n ≥ N.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction


    And when have you ever provided such a proof for your statement? >>>>>>>>
    NOWHERE

    Your problem is you don't even have a logical basis to express >>>>>>>> your statements in, so you can't do an induction on them.



    So, you are just demonstrating that your "logic" is based on the
    meaningless use of buzzwords that you don't understand, but can
    parrot their unlearned meaning, but have no idea how to actually use. >>>>>>

    *As you already admitted below*
    when N steps of DDD are emulated by HHH
    DDD cannot reach past its call to HHH (statement)

    But that was for the DDD that INCLUDED HHH as part of it, which you >>>>>> have now made clear is NOT what you consider DDD to be. And for
    that case DDD[n] calls HHH[n] (where HHH[n] is the version of HHH
    that does only n steps of emulation) and while we can say that
    HHH[n[ does not emulate DDD[n] to its final state, that property is >>>>>> NOT a property of of DDD[n], but of HHH[n] and DDD[n] as its input. >>>>>
    That every DDD[n] calls its HHH[n] in recursive emulation
    conclusively proves that no DDD[n] emulated by HHH[n] halts,
    thus each HHH[n] is correct to reject its input as non halting.

    But every HHH[n] aborts its emulaton and returns, and thus DDD[n]
    halts, and thus HHH is INCORRECT to call its input non-halting.


    *You are a stupid liar*
    You know that halting means reaching a final state and you
    know that no input to HHH can possibly reach its final state.
    So you aren't just a liar, you are a stupid one.


    And you should know that "Halting" is a property of Turing Machines /
    Computations / Progrzms / completely defined function and the like ONLY.


    I have already proved that halting is a property of C functions.
    You are not stupid, and you have good knowledge yet you do lie
    stupidly.


    WHERE?

    You pointed to a reference that talks about LEAF C-functions as having that property.

    Since you have made it clear that the description of the input DDD does NOT include the code of HHH, it is NOT a leaf-function, so that example doesn’t apply.

    You ARE that stupid, and don’t know what you are talking about, and thus
    make yourself into a pathological liar.

    Sorry, but that is just the fact that you keep on making just so obvious.

    You just don’t know what you are talking about and what many of the basic words mean.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Nov 27 09:03:50 2024
    On 11/27/24 8:28 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> larger context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    void DDD()
    {
        HHH(DDD);
        return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulates N
    to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt state. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> return.
    Because it cannot reach the instruction after the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH call.
    Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is
    a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specified
    for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD" and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2023

    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D

    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this because you did not quote where I did this? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clarity and
    in particular by your bad choice of names. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you have
    in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possiblity
    that you just triying to deceive by equivcation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instances
    such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.

    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> member of some
    set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    One element of an infinite set does not say there
    is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    But one element of an infinite set is not the infinite set. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    You are just showing that your logic is based on proven >>>>>>>>>>>> incorrect set theory.

    IF HHH is an ELEMENT of the set, then it is that one element >>>>>>>>>>>> for the entire evaluation,

    Liar:

    A proof by induction consists of two cases. The first, the base >>>>>>>>>>> case,
    proves the statement for n=0 without assuming any knowledge of >>>>>>>>>>> other cases. The second case, the induction step, proves that if >>>>>>>>>>> the
    statement holds for any given case n=k, then it must also >>>>>>>>>>> hold for
    the next case n=k+1. These two steps establish that the
    statement
    holds for every natural number n. The base case does not >>>>>>>>>>> necessarily
    begin with n=0, but often with n=1, and possibly with any fixed >>>>>>>>>>> natural
    number n=N, establishing the truth of the statement for all >>>>>>>>>>> natural
    numbers n ≥ N.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction


    And when have you ever provided such a proof for your statement? >>>>>>>>>>
    NOWHERE

    Your problem is you don't even have a logical basis to express >>>>>>>>>> your statements in, so you can't do an induction on them.



    So, you are just demonstrating that your "logic" is based on the >>>>>>>> meaningless use of buzzwords that you don't understand, but can >>>>>>>> parrot their unlearned meaning, but have no idea how to actually >>>>>>>> use.


    *As you already admitted below*
    when N steps of DDD are emulated by HHH
    DDD cannot reach past its call to HHH (statement)

    But that was for the DDD that INCLUDED HHH as part of it, which you >>>>>>>> have now made clear is NOT what you consider DDD to be. And for >>>>>>>> that case DDD[n] calls HHH[n] (where HHH[n] is the version of HHH >>>>>>>> that does only n steps of emulation) and while we can say that >>>>>>>> HHH[n[ does not emulate DDD[n] to its final state, that property is >>>>>>>> NOT a property of of DDD[n], but of HHH[n] and DDD[n] as its input. >>>>>>>
    That every DDD[n] calls its HHH[n] in recursive emulation
    conclusively proves that no DDD[n] emulated by HHH[n] halts,
    thus each HHH[n] is correct to reject its input as non halting.

    But every HHH[n] aborts its emulaton and returns, and thus DDD[n]
    halts, and thus HHH is INCORRECT to call its input non-halting.


    *You are a stupid liar*
    You know that halting means reaching a final state and you
    know that no input to HHH can possibly reach its final state.
    So you aren't just a liar, you are a stupid one.


    And you should know that "Halting" is a property of Turing Machines /
    Computations / Progrzms / completely defined function and the like
    ONLY.


    I have already proved that halting is a property of C functions.
    You are not stupid, and you have good knowledge yet you do lie
    stupidly.


    WHERE?

    You pointed to a reference that talks about LEAF C-functions as having
    that
    property.

    Since you have made it clear that the description of the input DDD
    does NOT
    include the code of HHH,

    Because HHH emulates DDD the call to HHH(DDD) from DDD
    never returns thus DDD never reaches its final halt state.
    It is not that hard as soon as you get out of rebuttal
    mode and get into honest dialogue mode.


    No, the call to HHH)(DDD) from DDD returns, because the definition of
    returns is semantic, and thus looks at the FULL running/emulation of the PROGRAM DDD, which since your HHH WILL abort its emulation and return,
    it will return to DDD.

    Note, to talk about DDD "returning", DDD must be a PROGRAM (in the
    Computation sense, which includes leaf-functions), and thus include the
    code of all the functions it calls.

    If you would get your head out of your ass, and learn what the words
    yoyu are using mean, you wouldn't be just lying so much.

    The "Emulation by HHH" is NOT a definied objective or semantic
    operation, so is meaningless to be used in this context.

    Sorry, you are just proving yourself to be an ignorantly lying idiot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Nov 27 22:20:40 2024
    On 11/27/24 8:15 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 8:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/27/24 8:28 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> larger context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    void DDD()
    {
        HHH(DDD);
        return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulates N
    to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibly
    reach its "return" instruction final halt state. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Because it cannot reach the instructions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before tha
    return.
    Because it cannot reach the instruction after the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH call.
    Because it cannot reach return instruction of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH.

    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is
    a verified fact that the input to HHH never >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halts.

    That is too vague to be regareded true or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> false. It
    is perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specified
    for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD" and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language.


    I specify the infinite sets with each element >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> numbered
    on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of 2023

    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D

    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
    GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this because you did not quote where I did this? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clarity and
    in particular by your bad choice of names. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you have
    in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
    possiblity
    that you just triying to deceive by equivcation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instances
    such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> member of some
    set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    One element of an infinite set does not say there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    But one element of an infinite set is not the infinite set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    You are just showing that your logic is based on proven >>>>>>>>>>>>>> incorrect set theory.

    IF HHH is an ELEMENT of the set, then it is that one element >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the entire evaluation,

    Liar:

    A proof by induction consists of two cases. The first, the >>>>>>>>>>>>> base
    case,
    proves the statement for n=0 without assuming any knowledge of >>>>>>>>>>>>> other cases. The second case, the induction step, proves >>>>>>>>>>>>> that if
    the
    statement holds for any given case n=k, then it must also >>>>>>>>>>>>> hold for
    the next case n=k+1. These two steps establish that the >>>>>>>>>>>>> statement
    holds for every natural number n. The base case does not >>>>>>>>>>>>> necessarily
    begin with n=0, but often with n=1, and possibly with any >>>>>>>>>>>>> fixed
    natural
    number n=N, establishing the truth of the statement for all >>>>>>>>>>>>> natural
    numbers n ≥ N.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    And when have you ever provided such a proof for your
    statement?

    NOWHERE

    Your problem is you don't even have a logical basis to express >>>>>>>>>>>> your statements in, so you can't do an induction on them. >>>>>>>>>>>>


    So, you are just demonstrating that your "logic" is based on the >>>>>>>>>> meaningless use of buzzwords that you don't understand, but can >>>>>>>>>> parrot their unlearned meaning, but have no idea how to
    actually use.


    *As you already admitted below*
    when N steps of DDD are emulated by HHH
    DDD cannot reach past its call to HHH (statement)

    But that was for the DDD that INCLUDED HHH as part of it,
    which you
    have now made clear is NOT what you consider DDD to be. And for >>>>>>>>>> that case DDD[n] calls HHH[n] (where HHH[n] is the version of HHH >>>>>>>>>> that does only n steps of emulation) and while we can say that >>>>>>>>>> HHH[n[ does not emulate DDD[n] to its final state, that
    property is
    NOT a property of of DDD[n], but of HHH[n] and DDD[n] as its >>>>>>>>>> input.

    That every DDD[n] calls its HHH[n] in recursive emulation
    conclusively proves that no DDD[n] emulated by HHH[n] halts, >>>>>>>>> thus each HHH[n] is correct to reject its input as non halting. >>>>>>>>
    But every HHH[n] aborts its emulaton and returns, and thus DDD[n] >>>>>>>> halts, and thus HHH is INCORRECT to call its input non-halting. >>>>>>>>

    *You are a stupid liar*
    You know that halting means reaching a final state and you
    know that no input to HHH can possibly reach its final state.
    So you aren't just a liar, you are a stupid one.


    And you should know that "Halting" is a property of Turing Machines / >>>>>> Computations / Progrzms / completely defined function and the like >>>>>> ONLY.


    I have already proved that halting is a property of C functions.
    You are not stupid, and you have good knowledge yet you do lie
    stupidly.


    WHERE?

    You pointed to a reference that talks about LEAF C-functions as
    having that
    property.

    Since you have made it clear that the description of the input DDD
    does NOT
    include the code of HHH,

    Because HHH emulates DDD the call to HHH(DDD) from DDD
    never returns thus DDD never reaches its final halt state.
    It is not that hard as soon as you get out of rebuttal
    mode and get into honest dialogue mode.


    No, the call to HHH)(DDD) from DDD returns, because the definition of

    When DDD is emulated by HHH and DDD calls HHH(DDD) this call
    never returns.

    WRONG.

    The *DEFINITION* of the behavor of a program is the unbounded execution=/emulation of it.

    Also, you CAN'T emulate the DDD that you have defined, that is, not
    including the HHH that it calls,

    All this proves is that you are nothing but a damned liar that has
    proven he doesn't know what he is talking about, but juts spouts of
    words he just doesn't understand what they mean, but only know by a rote memorization of the words without understanding their meaning in context.


    Unless proton beam therapy prevents this my Right paracaval lymph
    node will soon close off my superior vena cava (all blood flow to
    the heart). This lymph node has been growing at a rate of 3.84%
    per day for the 68 days between PET scans.

    1.0384 ^ 90 = 29.7-fold increase every 90 days. The R2 cancer
    treatment that I just started takes 90 days to begin to take effect.


    So, you don't have long to repent and try to repair your reputation. You
    have done a good job of totally burying it with all the stupid lies you
    have said, and your claims that you aren't lying just prove your stupidity.

    Sorry, you don't get to change the rules of the game, and is seems you
    are about to have that proved to you.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Thu Nov 28 12:07:44 2024
    On 2024-11-27 13:23:58 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/27/2024 3:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-27 04:34:55 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no larger context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt state. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return.
    Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call.
    Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D


    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this because you did not quote where I did this? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of clarity and
    in particular by your bad choice of names. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH that you have
    in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the possiblity
    that you just triying to deceive by equivcation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.

    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every member of some
    set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    One element of an infinite set does not say there
    is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    But one element of an infinite set is not the infinite set. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    You are just showing that your logic is based on proven incorrect set theory.

    IF HHH is an ELEMENT of the set, then it is that one element for the
    entire evaluation,

    Liar:

    A proof by induction consists of two cases. The first, the base case,
    proves the statement for n=0 without assuming any knowledge of >>>>>>>>>>> other cases. The second case, the induction step, proves that if the
    statement holds for any given case n=k, then it must also hold for >>>>>>>>>>> the next case n=k+1. These two steps establish that the statement >>>>>>>>>>> holds for every natural number n. The base case does not necessarily
    begin with n=0, but often with n=1, and possibly with any fixed natural
    number n=N, establishing the truth of the statement for all natural >>>>>>>>>>> numbers n ≥ N.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction


    And when have you ever provided such a proof for your statement? >>>>>>>>>>
    NOWHERE

    Your problem is you don't even have a logical basis to express your >>>>>>>>>> statements in, so you can't do an induction on them.



    So, you are just demonstrating that your "logic" is based on the >>>>>>>> meaningless use of buzzwords that you don't understand, but can parrot >>>>>>>> their unlearned meaning, but have no idea how to actually use. >>>>>>>>

    *As you already admitted below*
    when N steps of DDD are emulated by HHH
    DDD cannot reach past its call to HHH (statement)

    But that was for the DDD that INCLUDED HHH as part of it, which you >>>>>>>> have now made clear is NOT what you consider DDD to be. And for that >>>>>>>> case DDD[n] calls HHH[n] (where HHH[n] is the version of HHH that does >>>>>>>> only n steps of emulation) and while we can say that HHH[n[ does not >>>>>>>> emulate DDD[n] to its final state, that property is NOT a property of >>>>>>>> of DDD[n], but of HHH[n] and DDD[n] as its input.

    That every DDD[n] calls its HHH[n] in recursive emulation
    conclusively proves that no DDD[n] emulated by HHH[n] halts,
    thus each HHH[n] is correct to reject its input as non halting.

    But every HHH[n] aborts its emulaton and returns, and thus DDD[n]
    halts, and thus HHH is INCORRECT to call its input non-halting.


    *You are a stupid liar*
    You know that halting means reaching a final state and you
    know that no input to HHH can possibly reach its final state.
    So you aren't just a liar, you are a stupid one.


    And you should know that "Halting" is a property of Turing Machines /
    Computations / Progrzms / completely defined function and the like ONLY. >>>>

    I have already proved that halting is a property of C functions.
    You are not stupid, and you have good knowledge yet you do lie
    stupidly.

    So, does the function

     void ABC (void) {
       XYZ();
     }

    halt?


    void DDD() {
    HHH(DDD);
    return;
    }

    https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c
    I gave you the complete fully operational source code for
    HHH and DDD quit being a JackAss.

    We can also know that for every HHH that emulates N steps of DDD
    that no DDD ever reaches its "return" instruction final halt state.

    So you don't understand your own words? Then you can't reasonably
    expect that anyone else would understand them.

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From joes@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 28 10:04:46 2024
    Am Wed, 27 Nov 2024 19:15:41 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/27/2024 8:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/27/24 8:28 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:
    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    When DDD is emulated by HHH and DDD calls HHH(DDD) this call never
    returns.
    That's weird. Why can't HHH simulate itself?

    --
    Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
    It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Thu Nov 28 07:50:11 2024
    On 11/28/24 5:16 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 9:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/27/24 8:15 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 8:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/27/24 8:28 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The subject line >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not specify which mapping and there is no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> larger context that could >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specify that. Therefore it should be "a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mapping".

    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    void DDD()
    {
        HHH(DDD);
        return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ;
    housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulates N
    to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibly
    reach its "return" instruction final halt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state.

    Because it cannot reach the instructions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before tha
    return.
    Because it cannot reach the instruction >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after the
    HHH call.
    Because it cannot reach return instruction >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of HHH.

    This applies to every DDD emulated by any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH no
    matter the recursive depth of emulation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thus it is
    a verified fact that the input to HHH never >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halts.

    That is too vague to be regareded true or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> false. It
    is perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH

    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specified
    for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "every
    DDD" and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language.


    I specify the infinite sets with each element >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> numbered
    on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of 2023

    https://www.researchgate.net/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D

    You have also specifed that HHH is the program >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your
    GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this because you did not quote where I did this? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    No, you may assume that I was confused by your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lack of
    clarity and
    in particular by your bad choice of names. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you have
    in your GitHub repository then I needn't to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consider the
    possiblity
    that you just triying to deceive by equivcation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instances
    such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> member of some
    set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instances"

    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    One element of an infinite set does not say there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    But one element of an infinite set is not the infinite set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    You are just showing that your logic is based on proven >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incorrect set theory.

    IF HHH is an ELEMENT of the set, then it is that one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> element
    for the entire evaluation,

    Liar:

    A proof by induction consists of two cases. The first, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the base
    case,
    proves the statement for n=0 without assuming any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge of
    other cases. The second case, the induction step, proves >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that if
    the
    statement holds for any given case n=k, then it must also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hold for
    the next case n=k+1. These two steps establish that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> statement
    holds for every natural number n. The base case does not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> necessarily
    begin with n=0, but often with n=1, and possibly with any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fixed
    natural
    number n=N, establishing the truth of the statement for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all natural
    numbers n ≥ N.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    And when have you ever provided such a proof for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> statement?

    NOWHERE

    Your problem is you don't even have a logical basis to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> express
    your statements in, so you can't do an induction on them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>


    So, you are just demonstrating that your "logic" is based on >>>>>>>>>>>> the
    meaningless use of buzzwords that you don't understand, but can >>>>>>>>>>>> parrot their unlearned meaning, but have no idea how to >>>>>>>>>>>> actually use.


    *As you already admitted below*
    when N steps of DDD are emulated by HHH
    DDD cannot reach past its call to HHH (statement)

    But that was for the DDD that INCLUDED HHH as part of it, >>>>>>>>>>>> which you
    have now made clear is NOT what you consider DDD to be. And for >>>>>>>>>>>> that case DDD[n] calls HHH[n] (where HHH[n] is the version >>>>>>>>>>>> of HHH
    that does only n steps of emulation) and while we can say that >>>>>>>>>>>> HHH[n[ does not emulate DDD[n] to its final state, that >>>>>>>>>>>> property is
    NOT a property of of DDD[n], but of HHH[n] and DDD[n] as its >>>>>>>>>>>> input.

    That every DDD[n] calls its HHH[n] in recursive emulation >>>>>>>>>>> conclusively proves that no DDD[n] emulated by HHH[n] halts, >>>>>>>>>>> thus each HHH[n] is correct to reject its input as non halting. >>>>>>>>>>
    But every HHH[n] aborts its emulaton and returns, and thus DDD[n] >>>>>>>>>> halts, and thus HHH is INCORRECT to call its input non-halting. >>>>>>>>>>

    *You are a stupid liar*
    You know that halting means reaching a final state and you
    know that no input to HHH can possibly reach its final state. >>>>>>>>> So you aren't just a liar, you are a stupid one.


    And you should know that "Halting" is a property of Turing
    Machines /
    Computations / Progrzms / completely defined function and the
    like ONLY.


    I have already proved that halting is a property of C functions. >>>>>>> You are not stupid, and you have good knowledge yet you do lie
    stupidly.


    WHERE?

    You pointed to a reference that talks about LEAF C-functions as
    having that
    property.

    Since you have made it clear that the description of the input DDD >>>>>> does NOT
    include the code of HHH,

    Because HHH emulates DDD the call to HHH(DDD) from DDD
    never returns thus DDD never reaches its final halt state.
    It is not that hard as soon as you get out of rebuttal
    mode and get into honest dialogue mode.


    No, the call to HHH)(DDD) from DDD returns, because the definition of

    When DDD is emulated by HHH and DDD calls HHH(DDD) this call
    never returns.

    WRONG.

    The *DEFINITION* of the behavor of a program is the unbounded
    execution=/emulation of it.

    Also, you CAN'T emulate the DDD that you have defined, that is, not
    including the HHH that it calls,

    You already admitted that when DDD is emulated by HHH
    that the call from DDD to HHH(DDD) never returns.

    That was about the DDD that INCLUDED HHH as part of its input.

    Once you made it clear that your DDD is only the non-leaf code of the C function DDD, and excludes the code of HHH, no HHH can emulate more than
    4 instructions before it MUST stop because it doesn't know what to
    emulate, or proves that it isn't the required pure function.

    Of course, as has been shown, if you relax that requireent to allow HHH
    to see the rest of memory, we can make an HHH that can emulate that
    input to the final state, so you claim is still false under that form of correction.


    On 11/22/2024 8:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 9:07 PM, olcott wrote:>

    And, how many times will you just ignore that
    the below input can not be emulated past the
    call HHH instructioon.

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]


    All this proves is that you are nothing but a damned liar that has
    proven he doesn't know what he is talking about, but juts spouts of
    words he just doesn't understand what they mean, but only know by a
    rote memorization of the words without understanding their meaning in
    context.


    Unless proton beam therapy prevents this my Right paracaval lymph
    node will soon close off my superior vena cava (all blood flow to
    the heart). This lymph node has been growing at a rate of 3.84%
    per day for the 68 days between PET scans.

    1.0384 ^ 90 = 29.7-fold increase every 90 days. The R2 cancer
    treatment that I just started takes 90 days to begin to take effect.


    So, you don't have long to repent and try to repair your reputation.
    You have done a good job of totally burying it with all the stupid
    lies you have said, and your claims that you aren't lying just prove
    your stupidity.

    Sorry, you don't get to change the rules of the game, and is seems you
    are about to have that proved to you.

    I just figured out what could save me.
    I simply have the dangerous Right paracaval lymph node
    surgically removed before it gets much bigger and could
    block off my inferior vena cava very much.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Thu Nov 28 10:47:42 2024
    On 11/28/24 10:01 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/28/2024 6:50 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/28/24 5:16 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 9:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/27/24 8:15 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 8:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/27/24 8:28 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The subject line >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not specify which mapping and there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no
    larger context that could >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specify that. Therefore it should be "a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mapping".

    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    void DDD()
    {
        HHH(DDD); >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ;
    housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulates N
    to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibly
    reach its "return" instruction final halt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state.

    Because it cannot reach the instructions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before tha
    return.
    Because it cannot reach the instruction >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after the
    HHH call.
    Because it cannot reach return instruction >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of HHH.

    This applies to every DDD emulated by any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH no
    matter the recursive depth of emulation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thus it is
    a verified fact that the input to HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never halts.

    That is too vague to be regareded true or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> false. It
    is perfectly possibe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to define two programs and call them DDD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and HHH

    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specified
    for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "every
    DDD" and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language.


    I specify the infinite sets with each element >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> numbered
    on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> April of 2023

    https://www.researchgate.net/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D

    You have also specifed that HHH is the program >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your
    GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this because you did not quote where I did this? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    No, you may assume that I was confused by your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lack of
    clarity and
    in particular by your bad choice of names. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    If you clearly state that HHH is not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> function HHH
    that you have
    in your GitHub repository then I needn't to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consider the
    possiblity
    that you just triying to deceive by equivcation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instances
    such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every
    member of some
    set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instances"

    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    One element of an infinite set does not say there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    But one element of an infinite set is not the infinite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> set.

    You are just showing that your logic is based on proven >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incorrect set theory.

    IF HHH is an ELEMENT of the set, then it is that one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> element
    for the entire evaluation,

    Liar:

    A proof by induction consists of two cases. The first, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the base
    case,
    proves the statement for n=0 without assuming any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge of
    other cases. The second case, the induction step, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proves that if
    the
    statement holds for any given case n=k, then it must >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also hold for
    the next case n=k+1. These two steps establish that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> statement
    holds for every natural number n. The base case does not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> necessarily
    begin with n=0, but often with n=1, and possibly with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any fixed
    natural
    number n=N, establishing the truth of the statement for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all natural
    numbers n ≥ N.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    And when have you ever provided such a proof for your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> statement?

    NOWHERE

    Your problem is you don't even have a logical basis to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> express
    your statements in, so you can't do an induction on them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


    So, you are just demonstrating that your "logic" is based >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the
    meaningless use of buzzwords that you don't understand, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but can
    parrot their unlearned meaning, but have no idea how to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually use.


    *As you already admitted below*
    when N steps of DDD are emulated by HHH
    DDD cannot reach past its call to HHH (statement) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    But that was for the DDD that INCLUDED HHH as part of it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which you
    have now made clear is NOT what you consider DDD to be. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And for
    that case DDD[n] calls HHH[n] (where HHH[n] is the version >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of HHH
    that does only n steps of emulation) and while we can say >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
    HHH[n[ does not emulate DDD[n] to its final state, that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> property is
    NOT a property of of DDD[n], but of HHH[n] and DDD[n] as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> its input.

    That every DDD[n] calls its HHH[n] in recursive emulation >>>>>>>>>>>>> conclusively proves that no DDD[n] emulated by HHH[n] halts, >>>>>>>>>>>>> thus each HHH[n] is correct to reject its input as non >>>>>>>>>>>>> halting.

    But every HHH[n] aborts its emulaton and returns, and thus >>>>>>>>>>>> DDD[n]
    halts, and thus HHH is INCORRECT to call its input non-halting. >>>>>>>>>>>>

    *You are a stupid liar*
    You know that halting means reaching a final state and you >>>>>>>>>>> know that no input to HHH can possibly reach its final state. >>>>>>>>>>> So you aren't just a liar, you are a stupid one.


    And you should know that "Halting" is a property of Turing >>>>>>>>>> Machines /
    Computations / Progrzms / completely defined function and the >>>>>>>>>> like ONLY.


    I have already proved that halting is a property of C functions. >>>>>>>>> You are not stupid, and you have good knowledge yet you do lie >>>>>>>>> stupidly.


    WHERE?

    You pointed to a reference that talks about LEAF C-functions as >>>>>>>> having that
    property.

    Since you have made it clear that the description of the input >>>>>>>> DDD does NOT
    include the code of HHH,

    Because HHH emulates DDD the call to HHH(DDD) from DDD
    never returns thus DDD never reaches its final halt state.
    It is not that hard as soon as you get out of rebuttal
    mode and get into honest dialogue mode.


    No, the call to HHH)(DDD) from DDD returns, because the definition of >>>>>
    When DDD is emulated by HHH and DDD calls HHH(DDD) this call
    never returns.

    WRONG.

    The *DEFINITION* of the behavor of a program is the unbounded
    execution=/emulation of it.

    Also, you CAN'T emulate the DDD that you have defined, that is, not
    including the HHH that it calls,

    You already admitted that when DDD is emulated by HHH
    that the call from DDD to HHH(DDD) never returns.

    That was about the DDD that INCLUDED HHH as part of its input.


    It has always been the same code dipshit.
    Your weasel word intentional deception may get
    you sent straight to actual Hell.


    And your code never meet your requirement, so you have just been living
    your life as a lie,

    Your INTENTIONAL disregard for the truth is likely to do to you exactly
    what you project onto others. Something you seem to have learned from
    your buddy.

    I figured out how to save my life at 4:00 AM.

    Unless you die on the operating table, and you will still die at some
    point, and unless you have just been lying all these years, that doesn't
    sound like it will be very far away.


    -Right paracaval lymph node (0.63 cm away from SVC)
    (fused image 232): 3.5 x 2.3 cm with SUV max 12.0
    That is *growing at a daily rate of 3.815 percent*
    will have to be removed long before cuts off the
    blood flow through by inferior vena cava.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From joes@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 28 16:27:17 2024
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:16:15 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 4:04 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Wed, 27 Nov 2024 19:15:41 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/27/2024 8:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/27/24 8:28 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    When DDD is emulated by HHH and DDD calls HHH(DDD) this call never
    returns.
    That's weird. Why can't HHH simulate itself?
    I have already told you and conclusively proven that HHH does emulate
    itself emulating DDD. I have told you this dozens of times and my code continues to prove this.
    I don't get it. HHH clearly halts in order to return a value. But that
    value is "doesn't halt". Why does HHH, which does only a partial
    simulation, report that itself (called by DDD) doesn't halt?

    --
    Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
    It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From joes@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 28 16:51:22 2024
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:47:10 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 10:27 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:16:15 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 4:04 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Wed, 27 Nov 2024 19:15:41 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/27/2024 8:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/27/24 8:28 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    When DDD is emulated by HHH and DDD calls HHH(DDD) this call never
    returns.
    That's weird. Why can't HHH simulate itself?
    I have already told you and conclusively proven that HHH does emulate
    itself emulating DDD. I have told you this dozens of times and my code
    continues to prove this.
    I don't get it. HHH clearly halts in order to return a value. But that
    value is "doesn't halt". Why does HHH, which does only a partial
    simulation, report that itself (called by DDD) doesn't halt?
    https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm You just may not have the required software engineering skill to get it. If you did then you could just carefully study the code and see.
    That's what I mean. I can see the code, but the code is wrong.
    If HHH halts at all, it needs to return that HHH halts.

    --
    Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
    It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From joes@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 28 16:55:46 2024
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:43:39 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 9:47 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/28/24 10:01 AM, olcott wrote:

    And your code never meet your requirement, so you have just been living
    your life as a lie,

    DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly reach its "ret" instruction
    final halt state.

    *As you have already agreed to*
    On 11/22/2024 8:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    And, how many times will you just ignore that the below input can not
    be emulated past the call HHH instructioon.
    *simulated by itself, like any other. I see no agreement. HHH should be
    able to simulate every input, including itself.

    We both probably deserve purgatory. I have been
    very seriously repenting for many months.
    Oh, what for?

    --
    Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
    It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Thu Nov 28 12:09:01 2024
    On 11/28/24 11:16 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/28/2024 4:04 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Wed, 27 Nov 2024 19:15:41 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/27/2024 8:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/27/24 8:28 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    When DDD is emulated by HHH and DDD calls HHH(DDD) this call never
    returns.
    That's weird. Why can't HHH simulate itself?


    I have already told you and conclusively proven that HHH does
    emulate itself emulating DDD. I have told you this dozens of
    times and my code continues to prove this.

    You must be incompetent with software engineering.


    You mean the code that proves you are just a liar, as your deciders fail
    to meet the requirements you even admit they need to have, that of being
    a pure function, and thus can not depend on ANYTHING other than their
    input and thing derived from it,

    Sorry, you are just proving you are a total moron that doesn't have a
    clue about what you are talking about, and that will be how you will be remembered forever.

    That, and as someone who was arrested for child pornography, giving the
    defense that it was ok, as you were "God".

    Sorry, he doesn't like people abusing his image like that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Thu Nov 28 12:06:24 2024
    On 11/28/24 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/28/2024 9:47 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/28/24 10:01 AM, olcott wrote:

    It has always been the same code dipshit.
    Your weasel word intentional deception may get
    you sent straight to actual Hell.


    And your code never meet your requirement, so you have just been
    living your life as a lie,


    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly reach its "ret"
    instruction final halt state.

    But that DDD CAN'T be emulated more than 4 instructions by ANY pure
    function, as you can't emulate past the call HHH instruction.


    *As you have already agreed to*

    Which was for the DDD that INCLUDED the code for HHH, which you have now clearly excluded,

    Thus, you are caught lying by equivocation.

    You just don't know what is required to have something that CAN be emulated.


    On 11/22/2024 8:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/22/24 9:07 PM, olcott wrote:>

    And, how many times will you just ignore that
    the below input can not be emulated past the
    call HHH instructioon.

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    I honestly hope that you do not get condemned to Hell
    for your intentional deception. We both probably deserve
    purgatory. I have been very seriously repenting for
    many months.



    I won't be, because I know what I am talking about.

    You have closed your eyes to the truth, so are setting yourself up for a
    big surprise in the last days.

    Sorry, but when you brainwash yourself to beleive your own lies, and
    make yourself "allergic" to the truth, you set yourself up for a big fall.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Thu Nov 28 12:10:48 2024
    On 11/28/24 12:07 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/28/2024 10:51 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:47:10 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 10:27 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:16:15 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 4:04 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Wed, 27 Nov 2024 19:15:41 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/27/2024 8:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/27/24 8:28 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>
    When DDD is emulated by HHH and DDD calls HHH(DDD) this call never >>>>>>> returns.
    That's weird. Why can't HHH simulate itself?
    I have already told you and conclusively proven that HHH does emulate >>>>> itself emulating DDD. I have told you this dozens of times and my code >>>>> continues to prove this.
    I don't get it. HHH clearly halts in order to return a value. But that >>>> value is "doesn't halt". Why does HHH, which does only a partial
    simulation, report that itself (called by DDD) doesn't halt?
    https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm You just may not have the required
    software engineering skill to get it. If you did then you could just
    carefully study the code and see.
    That's what I mean. I can see the code, but the code is wrong.

    The code does do what it does do.

    If HHH halts at all, it needs to return that HHH halts.


    DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly halt.
    You can fail to understand that, you can lie
    about that, it remains immutably a verified
    fact none-the-less.


    Your DDD can't be emulated by HHH for more than 4 instructions.

    You have defined your DDD to make that a simple fact,

    You HHH just lie, as you do for saying it works right.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From joes@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 28 17:32:20 2024
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 11:07:16 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 10:51 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:47:10 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 10:27 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:16:15 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 4:04 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Wed, 27 Nov 2024 19:15:41 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/27/2024 8:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/27/24 8:28 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said:

    When DDD is emulated by HHH and DDD calls HHH(DDD) this call never >>>>>>> returns.
    That's weird. Why can't HHH simulate itself?
    I have already told you and conclusively proven that HHH does
    emulate itself emulating DDD. I have told you this dozens of times
    and my code continues to prove this.
    I don't get it. HHH clearly halts in order to return a value. But
    that value is "doesn't halt". Why does HHH, which does only a partial
    simulation, report that itself (called by DDD) doesn't halt?
    https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm You just may not have the required
    software engineering skill to get it. If you did then you could just
    carefully study the code and see.
    That's what I mean. I can see the code, but the code is wrong.
    The code does do what it does do.
    Yes, the wrong thing.

    If HHH halts at all, it needs to return that HHH halts.
    DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly halt.
    You can fail to understand that, you can lie about that, it remains
    immutably a verified fact none-the-less.
    Yes, HHH can't simulate itself.

    --
    Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
    It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From joes@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 28 19:48:55 2024
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 11:35:16 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 11:32 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 11:07:16 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 10:51 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:47:10 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 10:27 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:16:15 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 4:04 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Wed, 27 Nov 2024 19:15:41 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/27/2024 8:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/27/24 8:28 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said:
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said:

    When DDD is emulated by HHH and DDD calls HHH(DDD) this call >>>>>>>>> never returns.
    That's weird. Why can't HHH simulate itself?
    I have already told you and conclusively proven that HHH does
    emulate itself emulating DDD. I have told you this dozens of times >>>>>>> and my code continues to prove this.
    I don't get it. HHH clearly halts in order to return a value. But
    that value is "doesn't halt". Why does HHH, which does only a
    partial simulation, report that itself (called by DDD) doesn't
    halt?
    https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm You just may not have the
    required software engineering skill to get it. If you did then you
    could just carefully study the code and see.
    That's what I mean. I can see the code, but the code is wrong.
    The code does do what it does do.
    Yes, the wrong thing.

    If HHH halts at all, it needs to return that HHH halts.
    DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly halt.
    You can fail to understand that, you can lie about that, it remains
    immutably a verified fact none-the-less.
    Yes, HHH can't simulate itself.
    The code proves that HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD why lie?
    The code proves that HHH aborts.

    --
    Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
    It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Thu Nov 28 19:01:08 2024
    On 11/28/24 12:57 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/28/2024 11:06 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/28/24 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/28/2024 9:47 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/28/24 10:01 AM, olcott wrote:

    It has always been the same code dipshit.
    Your weasel word intentional deception may get
    you sent straight to actual Hell.


    And your code never meet your requirement, so you have just been
    living your life as a lie,


    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly reach its "ret"
    instruction final halt state.

    But that DDD CAN'T be emulated more than 4 instructions by ANY pure
    function, as you can't emulate past the call HHH instruction.


    You just aren't paying any attention at all or are woefully
    inaccurate in your word choice. HHH1 does emulate all of DDD.
    HHH1 <is> a pure function.


    HHH1 can't emulate what you are defining as the input either, as the
    input has NO correct emulation past the call HHH instruction at 217A, as
    the contents of 000015D2 is not provided, and looking at that location
    in the current memory makes the "emulator" not a pure function of its
    input as required.

    HHH1 can only emulate the input when it has been "fixed" by adding the
    code of HHH and all it calls, and for that fixed input, we see that HHH
    is just incorrect about that, and your logic just breaks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Fri Nov 29 11:49:25 2024
    On 2024-11-28 16:17:51 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/28/2024 4:07 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-27 13:23:58 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/27/2024 3:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-27 04:34:55 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no larger context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt state. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return.
    Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call.
    Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D


    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this because you did not quote where I did this? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of clarity and
    in particular by your bad choice of names. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH that you have
    in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the possiblity
    that you just triying to deceive by equivcation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every member of some
    set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    One element of an infinite set does not say there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    But one element of an infinite set is not the infinite set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    You are just showing that your logic is based on proven incorrect set theory.

    IF HHH is an ELEMENT of the set, then it is that one element for the
    entire evaluation,

    Liar:

    A proof by induction consists of two cases. The first, the base case,
    proves the statement for n=0 without assuming any knowledge of >>>>>>>>>>>>> other cases. The second case, the induction step, proves that if the
    statement holds for any given case n=k, then it must also hold for
    the next case n=k+1. These two steps establish that the statement >>>>>>>>>>>>> holds for every natural number n. The base case does not necessarily
    begin with n=0, but often with n=1, and possibly with any fixed natural
    number n=N, establishing the truth of the statement for all natural
    numbers n ≥ N.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    And when have you ever provided such a proof for your statement? >>>>>>>>>>>>
    NOWHERE

    Your problem is you don't even have a logical basis to express your
    statements in, so you can't do an induction on them.



    So, you are just demonstrating that your "logic" is based on the >>>>>>>>>> meaningless use of buzzwords that you don't understand, but can parrot
    their unlearned meaning, but have no idea how to actually use. >>>>>>>>>>

    *As you already admitted below*
    when N steps of DDD are emulated by HHH
    DDD cannot reach past its call to HHH (statement)

    But that was for the DDD that INCLUDED HHH as part of it, which you >>>>>>>>>> have now made clear is NOT what you consider DDD to be. And for that >>>>>>>>>> case DDD[n] calls HHH[n] (where HHH[n] is the version of HHH that does
    only n steps of emulation) and while we can say that HHH[n[ does not >>>>>>>>>> emulate DDD[n] to its final state, that property is NOT a property of
    of DDD[n], but of HHH[n] and DDD[n] as its input.

    That every DDD[n] calls its HHH[n] in recursive emulation
    conclusively proves that no DDD[n] emulated by HHH[n] halts, >>>>>>>>> thus each HHH[n] is correct to reject its input as non halting. >>>>>>>>
    But every HHH[n] aborts its emulaton and returns, and thus DDD[n] >>>>>>>> halts, and thus HHH is INCORRECT to call its input non-halting. >>>>>>>>

    *You are a stupid liar*
    You know that halting means reaching a final state and you
    know that no input to HHH can possibly reach its final state.
    So you aren't just a liar, you are a stupid one.


    And you should know that "Halting" is a property of Turing Machines / >>>>>> Computations / Progrzms / completely defined function and the like ONLY. >>>>>>

    I have already proved that halting is a property of C functions.
    You are not stupid, and you have good knowledge yet you do lie
    stupidly.

    So, does the function

     void ABC (void) {
       XYZ();
     }

    halt?


    void DDD() {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c
    I gave you the complete fully operational source code for
    HHH and DDD quit being a JackAss.

    We can also know that for every HHH that emulates N steps of DDD
    that no DDD ever reaches its "return" instruction final halt state.

    So you don't understand your own words? Then you can't reasonably
    expect that anyone else would understand them.


    Since you don't specify the various possible alternative
    interpretations of the above words I will assume that
    you are only playing trollish head games.

    There is not much alternatives available. The only possible interpretatins
    are "yes", "no", and "I don't know". You attempted to give a definition so
    that "I don't konw" would not be necessary but failed.

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Fri Nov 29 12:05:39 2024
    On 2024-11-24 14:13:22 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/24/2024 4:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-23 14:04:07 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
    The "the mapping" on the subject line is not correct. The subject line
    does not specify which mapping and there is no larger context that could
    specify that. Therefore it should be "a mapping".

    On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:

    void DDD()
    {
       HHH(DDD);
       return;
    }

    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt state.

    Because it cannot reach the instructions before tha return. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach the instruction after the HHH call. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach return instruction of HHH. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    That is too vague to be regareded true or false. It is perfectly possibe
    to define two programs and call them DDD and HHH

    What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully specified >>>>>>>>>>>>> for many months.

    They are specified in a way that makes your "every DDD" and "any DDD"
    bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common language.


    I specify the infinite sets with each element numbered
    on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April of 2023

    https://www.researchgate.net/
    publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D


    You have also specifed that HHH is the program in your GitHub repository.


    Should I assume that you must be lying about
    this because you did not quote where I did this?

    No, you may assume that I was confused by your lack of clarity and >>>>>>>> in particular by your bad choice of names.

    If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH that you have >>>>>>>> in your GitHub repository then I needn't to consider the possiblity >>>>>>>> that you just triying to deceive by equivcation.


    HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of instances
    such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times.

    That sentence says that there is only one HHH, contradicting your
    earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every member of some >>>>>> set.


    You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of instances"

    You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"?

    One element of an infinite set does not say there
    is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set.

    True but irrelevant.

    The behavior of one element of that infinite set proves
    that every element of that infinite set has the same property:

    That doesn't mean anything as "that infinite set" is undefined.
    Which is irrelevant (though analogous") to my observation that
    "the mapping" on the subject line is wrong.

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Mon Dec 2 22:00:46 2024
    On 12/2/24 9:46 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/28/2024 1:48 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 11:57:23 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 11:06 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/28/24 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/28/2024 9:47 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/28/24 10:01 AM, olcott wrote:

    DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly reach its "ret" instruction
    final halt state.

    But that DDD CAN'T be emulated more than 4 instructions by ANY pure
    function, as you can't emulate past the call HHH instruction.

    You just aren't paying any attention at all or are woefully inaccurate
    in your word choice. HHH1 does emulate all of DDD.
    HHH1 <is> a pure function.
    Strawman. We are talking about HHH.


    HHH1 has identical source-code to HHH the only difference
    is that DDD does not call HHH at all, thus does not call
    HHH in recursive emulation.

    *You said*
       DDD CAN'T be emulated more than 4 instructions by
       ANY pure function...

    Sure it can! It can be emulated by pure function HHH1

    It HHH1 an element of the set of pure functions?
    YES IT IS THUS YOU ARE WRONG !!!




    Nope, becuase if HHH1 looks at the machine code of HHH, which wasn't
    part of its input, it isn.t a pure function, BY DEFINITION.

    It is using "global memory" outside its input to affect its behavior.

    You are just proving you don't undetstand what you are talking about.

    You clearly don't know what a "pure function" is.


    Remember, you have made it clear that the code of HHH is *NOT* part of
    the input, and thus any accessing of it is the use of a global that
    wasn't part of the inputs to the funciton.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Mon Dec 2 22:18:02 2024
    On 12/2/24 10:13 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/2/2024 9:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/2/24 9:46 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/28/2024 1:48 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 11:57:23 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 11:06 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/28/24 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/28/2024 9:47 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/28/24 10:01 AM, olcott wrote:

    DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly reach its "ret" instruction >>>>>>> final halt state.

    But that DDD CAN'T be emulated more than 4 instructions by ANY pure >>>>>> function, as you can't emulate past the call HHH instruction.

    You just aren't paying any attention at all or are woefully inaccurate >>>>> in your word choice. HHH1 does emulate all of DDD.
    HHH1 <is> a pure function.
    Strawman. We are talking about HHH.


    HHH1 has identical source-code to HHH the only difference
    is that DDD does not call HHH at all, thus does not call
    HHH in recursive emulation.

    *You said*
        DDD CAN'T be emulated more than 4 instructions by
        ANY pure function...

    Sure it can! It can be emulated by pure function HHH1

    It HHH1 an element of the set of pure functions?
    YES IT IS THUS YOU ARE WRONG !!!




    Nope, becuase if HHH1 looks at the machine code of HHH, which wasn't
    part of its input, it isn.t a pure function, BY DEFINITION.


    How the Hell do you think that you can get away with
    saying that HHH is not part of the input to HHH1?


    Because you have defined that the input is JUST the x86 machine code of DDD.

    If you include the code of HHH as part of your input, then you can't
    make you claim about no emulator HHH can emulate this input from 1 to
    infinte number of steps, as the input will ALWAYS have the one
    particular HHH that it was built on in it or it is clearly a different
    input.

    How the hell do you think something you have specifically EXCLUDED can
    be part of the input.

    Or, are you admitting that you are giving a DIFFENT input to HHH1 than
    to HHH"?

    You are just caught in your LIES, for which you WILL BE judged.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From joes@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 3 09:03:01 2024
    Am Mon, 02 Dec 2024 20:48:49 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 1:48 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 11:35:16 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 11:32 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 11:07:16 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 10:51 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:47:10 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 10:27 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:16:15 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 4:04 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Wed, 27 Nov 2024 19:15:41 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/27/2024 8:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/27/24 8:28 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    olcott <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said:
    On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said:
    On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said:

    When DDD is emulated by HHH and DDD calls HHH(DDD) this call >>>>>>>>>>> never returns.
    That's weird. Why can't HHH simulate itself?
    I have already told you and conclusively proven that HHH does >>>>>>>>> emulate itself emulating DDD. I have told you this dozens of >>>>>>>>> times and my code continues to prove this.
    I don't get it. HHH clearly halts in order to return a value. But >>>>>>>> that value is "doesn't halt". Why does HHH, which does only a
    partial simulation, report that itself (called by DDD) doesn't >>>>>>>> halt?
    https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm You just may not have the
    required software engineering skill to get it. If you did then you >>>>>>> could just carefully study the code and see.
    That's what I mean. I can see the code, but the code is wrong.
    The code does do what it does do.
    Yes, the wrong thing.

    If HHH halts at all, it needs to return that HHH halts.
    DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly halt.
    You can fail to understand that, you can lie about that, it remains
    immutably a verified fact none-the-less.
    Yes, HHH can't simulate itself.
    The code proves that HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD why lie?
    The code proves that HHH aborts.


    You said:
    HHH can't simulate itself.
    That is WRONG !!!
    HHH DOES EMULATE ITSELF PROVING THAT IT CAN EMULATE ITSELF.
    We know that HHH halts. It doesn't simulate itself halting.

    --
    Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
    It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Tue Dec 3 07:22:41 2024
    On 12/2/24 10:23 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/2/2024 9:18 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/2/24 10:13 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/2/2024 9:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/2/24 9:46 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/28/2024 1:48 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 11:57:23 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 11:06 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/28/24 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/28/2024 9:47 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/28/24 10:01 AM, olcott wrote:

    DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly reach its "ret"
    instruction
    final halt state.

    But that DDD CAN'T be emulated more than 4 instructions by ANY pure >>>>>>>> function, as you can't emulate past the call HHH instruction.

    You just aren't paying any attention at all or are woefully
    inaccurate
    in your word choice. HHH1 does emulate all of DDD.
    HHH1 <is> a pure function.
    Strawman. We are talking about HHH.


    HHH1 has identical source-code to HHH the only difference
    is that DDD does not call HHH at all, thus does not call
    HHH in recursive emulation.

    *You said*
        DDD CAN'T be emulated more than 4 instructions by
        ANY pure function...

    Sure it can! It can be emulated by pure function HHH1

    It HHH1 an element of the set of pure functions?
    YES IT IS THUS YOU ARE WRONG !!!




    Nope, becuase if HHH1 looks at the machine code of HHH, which wasn't
    part of its input, it isn.t a pure function, BY DEFINITION.


    How the Hell do you think that you can get away with
    saying that HHH is not part of the input to HHH1?


    Because you have defined that the input is JUST the x86 machine code
    of DDD.


    I never said anything like that Dumbledore. If I ever
    said anything like that then I would have never said
    that HHH emulates itself emulating DDD.

    So, you are just proving that you are i9n your basic nature a LIAR.

    I guess you are just wanting to conferm you one way ticket to Gehanna.


    I can show you that you have, but will wait to give you a chance to
    repent of your lies before presenting the condemnation to you.


    *DDD emulated by HHH NEVER HALTS* (wit of a nit).



    Better signature for you, you NITWIT.

    Of course you remember that if HHH *IS* part of the input, then that HHH
    has been fully specified by the input (the input can't just say "use
    whatever HHH you find, it needs to actually specify to actual steps that
    HHH will do) and thus when you hypothosize some other HHH looking at
    THIS input, that input doesn't change and thus the HHH that DDD calls
    doesn't change, so your other HHH's need to be put elsewhere, as you
    can't have two different pieces of code using the exact same memory
    addresses so they become like your HHH1, and show that DDD emulated by
    those other HHH's will halt, therefore HHH is wrong in making the claim
    that no HHH can ever emulate this input to a final state.


    All you are doing is proving your utter ignorance, and that you are

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Tue Dec 3 18:39:58 2024
    On 12/3/24 6:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/3/2024 3:03 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Mon, 02 Dec 2024 20:48:49 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 1:48 PM, joes wrote:

    You said:
      >>> HHH can't simulate itself.
    That is WRONG !!!
    HHH DOES EMULATE ITSELF PROVING THAT IT CAN EMULATE ITSELF.
    We know that HHH halts. It doesn't simulate itself halting.


    Please try and explain how you are not dishonest what you
    try to change the subject from my rebuttal of your statement:

    HHH can't simulate itself.

    That HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD proves
    THAT IT CAN DO THIS.


    But only if your think that wrong answer can be right.

    But, since you have made it clear that you think lies are a proper part
    of doing logic, that would fit with your mentality.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From joes@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 4 15:32:44 2024
    Am Tue, 03 Dec 2024 17:08:34 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 12/3/2024 3:03 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Mon, 02 Dec 2024 20:48:49 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 1:48 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 11:35:16 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 11:32 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 11:07:16 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 10:51 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:47:10 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 10:27 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:16:15 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 4:04 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Wed, 27 Nov 2024 19:15:41 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/27/2024 8:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/27/24 8:28 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    olcott <[email protected]> wrote:

    If HHH halts at all, it needs to return that HHH halts.
    DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly halt.
    You can fail to understand that, you can lie about that, it
    remains immutably a verified fact none-the-less.
    Yes, HHH can't simulate itself.
    The code proves that HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD why lie?
    The code proves that HHH aborts.
    You said:
    >>> HHH can't simulate itself.
    That is WRONG !!!
    HHH DOES EMULATE ITSELF PROVING THAT IT CAN EMULATE ITSELF.
    We know that HHH halts. It doesn't simulate itself halting.
    Please try and explain how you are not dishonest what you try to change
    the subject from my rebuttal of your statement:
    HHH can't simulate itself.
    That HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD proves THAT IT CAN DO THIS.
    I'm not changing the subject. HHH is a decider, right?

    --
    Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
    It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From joes@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 4 19:22:22 2024
    Am Wed, 04 Dec 2024 13:14:20 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 12/4/2024 9:32 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Tue, 03 Dec 2024 17:08:34 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 12/3/2024 3:03 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Mon, 02 Dec 2024 20:48:49 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 1:48 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 11:35:16 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 11:32 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 11:07:16 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 10:51 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:47:10 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 10:27 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:16:15 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 4:04 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Wed, 27 Nov 2024 19:15:41 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/27/2024 8:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/27/24 8:28 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olcott <[email protected]> wrote:

    If HHH halts at all, it needs to return that HHH halts.
    DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly halt.
    You can fail to understand that, you can lie about that, it
    remains immutably a verified fact none-the-less.
    Yes, HHH can't simulate itself.
    The code proves that HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD why
    lie?
    The code proves that HHH aborts.
    You said:
    >>> HHH can't simulate itself.
    That is WRONG !!!
    HHH DOES EMULATE ITSELF PROVING THAT IT CAN EMULATE ITSELF.
    We know that HHH halts. It doesn't simulate itself halting.
    Please try and explain how you are not dishonest what you try to
    change the subject from my rebuttal of your statement:
    >>> HHH can't simulate itself.
    That HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD proves THAT IT CAN DO THIS.
    I'm not changing the subject. HHH is a decider, right?
    We have not begun to get to that point of the conversation yet. We have
    only been talking about the emulation of DDD by HHH for three months.
    For that it seems relevant what HHH does. Ok, it simulates some number
    of steps of its input, potentially forever?

    *We must go though my proof ONE-STEP-AT-A-TIME*
    Only you must. Why? Just give me the full thing, if you have it.

    --
    Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
    It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Dec 4 19:11:55 2024
    On 12/4/24 2:14 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/4/2024 9:32 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Tue, 03 Dec 2024 17:08:34 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 12/3/2024 3:03 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Mon, 02 Dec 2024 20:48:49 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 1:48 PM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 11:35:16 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 11:32 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 11:07:16 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 10:51 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:47:10 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 10:27 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:16:15 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 4:04 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Wed, 27 Nov 2024 19:15:41 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/27/2024 8:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 11/27/24 8:28 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/27/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> olcott <[email protected]> wrote:

    If HHH halts at all, it needs to return that HHH halts.
    DDD emulated by any HHH cannot possibly halt.
    You can fail to understand that, you can lie about that, it
    remains immutably a verified fact none-the-less.
    Yes, HHH can't simulate itself.
    The code proves that HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD why lie? >>>>>> The code proves that HHH aborts.
    You said:
       >>> HHH can't simulate itself.
    That is WRONG !!!
    HHH DOES EMULATE ITSELF PROVING THAT IT CAN EMULATE ITSELF.
    We know that HHH halts. It doesn't simulate itself halting.
    Please try and explain how you are not dishonest what you try to change
    the subject from my rebuttal of your statement:
      >>> HHH can't simulate itself.
    That HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD proves THAT IT CAN DO THIS.
    I'm not changing the subject. HHH is a decider, right?


    We have not begun to get to that point of the
    conversation yet. We have only been talking
    about the emulation of DDD by HHH for three months.

    But you aren't going to be allowed to change the behavior of the HHH
    that you talk about.


    _DDD()
    [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
    [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
    [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
    [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
    [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
    [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
    [00002183] c3         ret
    Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

    Which doesn't include "HHH, so your HHH to emulate the "input" must be
    impure, and thus not meet your requirements.


    *We must go though my proof ONE-STEP-AT-A-TIME*

    DDD emulated by any HHH according to the semantics of
    the x86 language cannot possibly reach it "ret" instruction
    whether HHH aborts this emulation after N steps or never aborts.


    But the DDD you show can *NOT* be emulated more than 4 instructions by a
    pure function, so your claim is just bogus.

    You are just proving that you don't undetstand what you are talking
    about, show9ing you are nothing but a damned pathological liar.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Dec 4 20:31:45 2024
    On 12/4/24 8:06 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/4/2024 6:11 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/4/24 9:27 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/3/2024 5:39 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/3/24 6:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/3/2024 3:03 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Mon, 02 Dec 2024 20:48:49 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 1:48 PM, joes wrote:

    You said:
      >>> HHH can't simulate itself.
    That is WRONG !!!
    HHH DOES EMULATE ITSELF PROVING THAT IT CAN EMULATE ITSELF.
    We know that HHH halts. It doesn't simulate itself halting.


    Please try and explain how you are not dishonest what you
    try to change the subject from my rebuttal of your statement:

    HHH can't simulate itself.

    That HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD proves
    THAT IT CAN DO THIS.


    But only if your think that wrong answer can be right.

    I did not mention anything about answers my entire
    scope is that HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD
    thus conclusively proving that HHH can emulated itself
    emulating DDD.

    Whenever you go out-of-scope like this it surely
    seems dishonest to me.


    But the behaivor that HHH shows that it has *IS* an "answer",

    DDD emulated by any HHH according to the semantics of
    the x86 language cannot possibly reach its "ret" instruction
    whether HHH aborts this emulation after N steps or never aborts.



    Just a nonsense sentence, since HHH can't emulate HHH as it isn't given
    it, so it can't emulate what it doesn't have it.

    If it access the code from "global memory" you are just admitting that
    HHH isn't the pure function you require it to be.

    Even if we fix that and add it to the input, to emulate it per the
    semantic of the x86 language, it can not abort its emulation, or it
    violates that semantics (since the x86 language never "aborts" a valid
    program, which DDD/HHH should be. Thus, the ONLY HHH that could meet
    that claim would be an HHH that NEVER stops, and thus NEVER returns, but
    your claim is about an HHH that returns an answer, and thus you are
    proven to just be a stupid liar that doesn't knwo what he is talking
    about and is just misusing the words he is saying.

    Sorry, you are just adding more nails to the coffin of your repuration
    with every new lie you add to your history.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Dec 4 20:45:48 2024
    On 12/4/24 8:41 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/4/2024 7:31 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/4/24 8:06 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/4/2024 6:11 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/4/24 9:27 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/3/2024 5:39 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/3/24 6:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/3/2024 3:03 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Mon, 02 Dec 2024 20:48:49 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 1:48 PM, joes wrote:

    You said:
      >>> HHH can't simulate itself.
    That is WRONG !!!
    HHH DOES EMULATE ITSELF PROVING THAT IT CAN EMULATE ITSELF.
    We know that HHH halts. It doesn't simulate itself halting.


    Please try and explain how you are not dishonest what you
    try to change the subject from my rebuttal of your statement:

    HHH can't simulate itself.

    That HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD proves
    THAT IT CAN DO THIS.


    But only if your think that wrong answer can be right.

    I did not mention anything about answers my entire
    scope is that HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD
    thus conclusively proving that HHH can emulated itself
    emulating DDD.

    Whenever you go out-of-scope like this it surely
    seems dishonest to me.


    But the behaivor that HHH shows that it has *IS* an "answer",

    DDD emulated by any HHH according to the semantics of
    the x86 language cannot possibly reach its "ret" instruction
    whether HHH aborts this emulation after N steps or never aborts.



    Just a nonsense sentence, since HHH can't emulate HHH as it isn't
    given it,

    Why do you have to keep fucking lying about this?
    I could die on the operating table in two weeks!


    What's the lie?

    Can you point to what I say that is wrong, and a reliable reference that
    show it?

    All you have is your own lies to call it a lie.

    And yes, you might die in two weeks, and the only thing you will have
    left behind is all your lies.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Dec 4 21:16:30 2024
    On 12/4/24 8:50 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/4/2024 7:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/4/24 8:41 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/4/2024 7:31 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/4/24 8:06 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/4/2024 6:11 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/4/24 9:27 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/3/2024 5:39 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 12/3/24 6:08 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 12/3/2024 3:03 AM, joes wrote:
    Am Mon, 02 Dec 2024 20:48:49 -0600 schrieb olcott:
    On 11/28/2024 1:48 PM, joes wrote:

    You said:
      >>> HHH can't simulate itself.
    That is WRONG !!!
    HHH DOES EMULATE ITSELF PROVING THAT IT CAN EMULATE ITSELF. >>>>>>>>>> We know that HHH halts. It doesn't simulate itself halting. >>>>>>>>>>

    Please try and explain how you are not dishonest what you
    try to change the subject from my rebuttal of your statement: >>>>>>>>>
    HHH can't simulate itself.

    That HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD proves
    THAT IT CAN DO THIS.


    But only if your think that wrong answer can be right.

    I did not mention anything about answers my entire
    scope is that HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD
    thus conclusively proving that HHH can emulated itself
    emulating DDD.

    Whenever you go out-of-scope like this it surely
    seems dishonest to me.


    But the behaivor that HHH shows that it has *IS* an "answer",

    DDD emulated by any HHH according to the semantics of
    the x86 language cannot possibly reach its "ret" instruction
    whether HHH aborts this emulation after N steps or never aborts.



    Just a nonsense sentence, since HHH can't emulate HHH as it isn't
    given it,

    Why do you have to keep fucking lying about this?
    I could die on the operating table in two weeks!


    What's the lie?

    Can you point to what I say that is wrong, and a reliable reference
    that show it?

    All you have is your own lies to call it a lie.

    And yes, you might die in two weeks, and the only thing you will have
    left behind is all your lies.

    Yes you fucking jackass this conclusively proves that
    HHH does emulate itself emulating DDD.

    https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c



    Nope.

    It proves that your HHH fails to meet its requirement to be pure
    function as you have agreed is a requirment.

    It also proves that HHH is *INCORRECT* in it being a "correct emulator"
    of DDD, as it makes the determination that HHH will NEVER return to DDD,
    while you have also produced traces that show that the exact same code
    when run WILL return to its caller, and thus HHH is just WRONG about its determination.


    All you are doing is PROVING that in your logical models, LIES and
    ERRORS are concidered to be valid.

    Sorry, but you are just proving your utter stupidity and lack of
    understanding of what is correct and right.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mikko@21:1/5 to olcott on Fri Dec 6 11:07:01 2024
    On 2024-11-20 22:00:05 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/20/2024 3:50 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-20 03:19:37 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/19/2024 4:05 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 20:44:49 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/18/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2024-11-18 04:04:39 +0000, olcott said:

    You stupidly claimed termination analysis is only done
    on programs. I proved that you were stupidly wrong on
    pages 24-27 of the PDF of this paper.

    Automated Termination Analysis of C Programs
    https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/972440.pdf >>>>>>
    The claim is not supported by the referred article.


    You are a damned liar. Page 24 proves that termination
    analysis is performed on C functions.

    You are the liar. Page 24 does not even mention C functions.

    There are two different page 24. Page 24 of the PDF
    not page 24 of the paper.

    You failed to tell which one you meant. Such tricks may deceive
    somebody but don't work here.


    Please quit being a damned jackass.

    After you!

    --
    Mikko

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)