• =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_G=C3=B6del=27s_Basic_Logic_Course_at_Notre_Dame_=28?= =

    From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Tue Jul 23 22:15:34 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 7/23/24 8:18 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 7/23/2024 3:44 PM, Mild Shock wrote:
    Of course you can restrict yourself to
    only so called "decidable" sentences A,

    i.e. sentences A where:

    True(L,A) v True(L,~A)

    But this doesn't mean that all sentences
    are decidable, if the language allows for
    example at least one propositional variables p,

    then you have aleady an example of an
    undecidable sentences, you even don't
    need anything Gödel, Russell, or who knows

    what, all you need is bivalence, which was
    already postualated by Aristoteles.

    Principle of bivalence
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_bivalence

    if you assume that a propostional variable
    is "variably", meaning it can take different truth
    values depending on different possible worlds,

    or state of affairs, or valuations, or how ever
    you want to call it. Then a propositional variable
    is the prime example of an undecided sentence.


    The key difference is that we no long use the misnomer
    "undecidable" sentence and instead call it for what it
    really is an expression that is not a truth bearer, or
    proposition in L.

    Which isn't a tually a mismomer, it just shows you dont understand the mtechnical meaning of the term. But then, since you decided not to learn
    about the fields, you don't know any of the technical meaning of the
    words, and just misuse them all.


    Mild Shock schrieb:
    Thats a little bit odd to abolish incompletness.
    Take p, an arbitrary propositional variable.
    Its neither the case that:

    True(L,p)

    Nor is ihe case that:

    True(L,~p)

    Because there are always at least two possible worlds.
    One possible world where p is false, making True(L,p)
    impossible, and one possible world where p is true,

    making True(L,~p) impossible.


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  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to olcott on Wed Jul 24 19:57:01 2024
    XPost: sci.logic

    On 7/24/24 4:45 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 7/24/2024 3:33 PM, Mild Shock wrote:
    But truth bearer has another meaning.
    The more correct terminology is anyway
    truth maker, you have to shift away the

    focus from the formula and think it is
    a truth bearer, this is anyway wrong,
    since you have two additional parameters
    your "True" and your language "L".

    So all that we see here in expression such as:

    [~] True(L, [~] A)

    Is truth making, and not truth bearing.
    In recent years truth making has received
    some attention, there are interesting papers
    concerning truth makers. And it has

    even a SEP article:

    Truthmakers
    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truthmakers/

    A world of truthmakers?
    https://philipp.philosophie.ch/handouts/2005-5-5-truthmakers.pdf

    olcott schrieb:

    The key difference is that we no long use the misnomer
    "undecidable" sentence and instead call it for what it
    really is an expression that is not a truth bearer, or
    proposition in L.

    A truth-bearer is any expression of language that can
    be true or false. Self-contradictory expressions are not
    truth bearers.



    And thus you accept that Goldbach's conjecture is a truth-bearer, even
    if it can't be proven.

    Which means your other definition of truth-bearers can't be correct, and
    you are just shown to be a liar.

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