XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.privacy

Bob Campbell wrote:

Looking at those apps, here's the nearest Android FOSS equivalent, where
those reading this should keep in mind the FOSS apps are always better.

LOL, good one.

Do you write your own material? Or do you hire comedy writers?

Hi to badgolferman,

In stark contrast to the child-like response of the iKook above (who have
been indoctrinated so you can actually feel sorry for them - they know not
what is the truth for they believe only in propaganda), below is a rather detailed thoughtful helpful discussion on privacy replacements on both iOS
and Android for the default set of Google apps on iOS & Android.

This is adding value to your topic of Google apps... which, for an iOS newsgroup, is extremely important given Apple sold its soul to Google.

Notice how this uneducated ignorant low-self-esteem iKook "Bob Campbell" polluted your rather useful (and unique topic) thread out of his spite?

As with Joerg Lorenz, this Bob Campbell doesn't own the necessary IQ to understand adult conversations, where I claimed that the FOSS replacements
for the following Google apps were _better_ than the original Google app.
- Gmail ==> FairMail beats it on Android - dunno about iOS equivalents
- Google Maps ==> nobody is as good but Apple Maps isn't too far behind
on iOS and OSMAnd+ works fine most of the time
- Chrome ==> Ungoogled Chromium should be available for iOS & Android
- YouTube ==> no equivalent on iOS but there are some but NewPipe
on Android wins hands down over both the iOS equivalents

There are important technical points to make about each of those Google
apps as they pertain to the iOS platform that are rather enlightening.

Take, for example, the ubiquitous GMail app, which infests both the Android
and the iOS platform but, and this is very important, but which affects the loss of privacy on iOS far _less_ than it does the loss of privacy on
Android (which is interesting, as it's usually the other way around).

On iOS, you've already lost your privacy because you're essentially forced
to log into a mothership tracking account - whereas on Android you're not.

However... and this is huge in terms of privacy... however, on Android, the very _instant_ you enter your login information into the GMail app, it
_forces_ an Android account upon the phone - without your knowledge (for
most people) - which means it's as bad as using the Apple iCloud account in terms of loss of privacy for the entire phone for the life of that account.

Thankfully, and mercifully so, if you log into the Google GMail app on iOS, that instant association with the mothership for the entire phone does NOT happen! Notice this is a privacy benefit, so to speak, of using the GMail
app on iOS versus using that same GMail app on Android.

I realize this is too deep technically for 99.9% of the people on this newsgroup, but the simplified takeaway is that the GMail app itself is
actually more private on iOS than it is on Android - which is ironic.

Moving to the next Google app in terms of privacy, there is a DIFFERENT
(yet huge!) loss of privacy when you use the Google Maps product on Android than on iOS!

Yes. Who would have thought that Android is _less_ private than iOS when
using the Google Maps app! Much less private in fact. And Google does this
very discretely, which, again, is lost on 99.9% of the people out there.

When you use the Google Maps app on iOS without logging into the Google
Maps app itself, as far as I know the last time I tested this (admittedly a while ago), the Google Maps app does NOT change the iOS settings to
pernicious uploading of your location and _other_ critical information such
as bluetooth and Wi-Fi access point identifying details.

By way of stark contrast, when you use the Google Maps app on Android
without logging into the app itself, it _asks_ you to turn on "Location",
but it doesn't tell you overtly that this location switch is DIFFERENT from
the user turning on location manually (usually with the teardrop tile),
and, get this... this is critical... what's lost on 99.9% of the people out there is that NO OTHER MAP APP on the Android phone is allowed to do what
the Google map does, which is turn on precise location settings, which, as noted, also turn on uploading of bluetooth and Wi-Fi information to Google servers!

Notice in both cases above, you have more privacy with iOS Google apps than with the Android equivalents to those same Google apps (although you
already lost some of that privacy already on iOS due to the mothership
account being forced upon users in order to make the device usable).

Luckily, the Android FOSS equivalents I had suggested don't have that
privacy loss, and, in fact, the FOSS apps specifically are engineered for privacy protection such that anyone intelligent and well informed (yes, I
know, that's only about 0.1% of the people on these newsgroups) can avoid
that loss of privacy but they'd have to first know what I just told you.

Luckily, the simple takeaway is never use Google apps on Android when there
is a FOSS equivalent to that Google app, which, brings us to the next app.

On iOS, the default browser, whether you like that one browser or not, as
you are well aware, is Safari - and on Android it's Chrome. While you can
add Chrome to iOS, you can't make it the default (last I checked), which is
a good thing actually, whereas on Android it comes as the default browser.

The bad thing about Chrome with respect to privacy is that it _requires_
you to sign an agreement with Google, which is the topic of a different
thread on the c.m.a ng but the same agreement (presumably) applies to iOS.
*What exactly are you AGREEING to when you use Google default apps?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/FihfWq_1Ojs>

Thankfully, ungoogled chromium FOSS replacements exist for most common
consumer platforms, which does NOT require that agreement to be signed.
<https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium>

Unfortunately for iOS users, the _one_ platform that the ungoogled chromium
is _not_ available for is iOS - so you can't use ungoogled chromium at all.
<https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium/issues/1103>
"all browsers for iOS are just reskins of safari"

Finally, we get to the FOSS YouTube client replacement apps, of which I'm
sure the uneducated iKook Bob Campbell is as ignorant of as are the rest.

This one app is, in my humble opinion, one of the top five FOSS apps that
have ever been designed for a mobile device, along with and on a similar
level in terms of privacy and functionality to the Aurora Google Play Store client and to the NetGuard system-wide firewall - none of which will Google allow on the Google Play Store itself, but all of which are easily found.
<https://newpipe.net/>
<https://auroraoss.com/>
<https://email.faircode.eu/>
<https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard>
<https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium>

Notice that Google _hates_ the FOSS NewPipe functionality with such a
passion that it's not even allowed on the Google Play Store repository!

Suffice to say this FOSS YouTube client does _everything_ the Google
YouTube client does and then it does so privately, and, most importantly,
it provides more than the functionality of YouTube Premium, for free.

Since the source code is public, and since Google has good lawyers, and
since it's designed to follow all applicable laws, Google can't stop it.

What I love most about this FOSS Google YouTube client that Bob Campbell is certainly wholly ignorant of, is that there are never Google inserted ads!

Now, given the iPad is larger than my phablet, I would _love_ to find a replacement FOSS client for iOS, but they simply do not exist on the Apple
App store. However there _are_ some apps that I've used which nospam
insists are replacements, but he doesn't even have an Android device most likely so he hsa no idea what he's talking about. I do.

I've tried them, and they're just ok - as what they do (last I checked) is substitute their own ads for those you don't see coming from Google.

That's better than nothing, but it's not even close to comparable, and, in terms of privacy, none of those iOS apps allow you to do things like
subscribe to a channel w/o using your Google Account to do so which NewPipe allows by design (as does Aurora for the Google Play Store functionality).

Alas, there is no way on iOS to do either of those two things anonymously, since you _must_ use the account associated with the device only on iOS.

In summary, if you are technically competent on both platforms you can find substitutes for Google products where, surprisingly, on the iOS platform
some of those substitutes are actually _more_ private (but not all).
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which in this case is to expound upon privacy differences between iOS and Android for the main Google apps that I use & which have FOSS equivalents.

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.privacy

Andy Burnelli <[email protected]> wrote:

Bob Campbell wrote:

Looking at those apps, here's the nearest Android FOSS equivalent, where >>> those reading this should keep in mind the FOSS apps are always better.

LOL, good one.

Do you write your own material? Or do you hire comedy writers?

Hi to badgolferman,

In stark contrast to the child-like response of the iKook above (who have been indoctrinated so you can actually feel sorry for them - they know not what is the truth for they believe only in propaganda), below is a rather detailed thoughtful helpful discussion on privacy replacements on both iOS and Android for the default set of Google apps on iOS & Android.

This is adding value to your topic of Google apps... which, for an iOS newsgroup, is extremely important given Apple sold its soul to Google.

Notice how this uneducated ignorant low-self-esteem iKook "Bob Campbell" polluted your rather useful (and unique topic) thread out of his spite?

As with Joerg Lorenz, this Bob Campbell doesn't own the necessary IQ to understand adult conversations, where I claimed that the FOSS replacements for the following Google apps were _better_ than the original Google app.
- Gmail ==> FairMail beats it on Android - dunno about iOS equivalents
- Google Maps ==> nobody is as good but Apple Maps isn't too far behind
on iOS and OSMAnd+ works fine most of the time
- Chrome ==> Ungoogled Chromium should be available for iOS & Android
- YouTube ==> no equivalent on iOS but there are some but NewPipe
on Android wins hands down over both the iOS equivalents

There are important technical points to make about each of those Google
apps as they pertain to the iOS platform that are rather enlightening.

Take, for example, the ubiquitous GMail app, which infests both the Android and the iOS platform but, and this is very important, but which affects the loss of privacy on iOS far _less_ than it does the loss of privacy on
Android (which is interesting, as it's usually the other way around).

On iOS, you've already lost your privacy because you're essentially forced
to log into a mothership tracking account - whereas on Android you're not.

However... and this is huge in terms of privacy... however, on Android, the very _instant_ you enter your login information into the GMail app, it _forces_ an Android account upon the phone - without your knowledge (for
most people) - which means it's as bad as using the Apple iCloud account in terms of loss of privacy for the entire phone for the life of that account.

Thankfully, and mercifully so, if you log into the Google GMail app on iOS, that instant association with the mothership for the entire phone does NOT happen! Notice this is a privacy benefit, so to speak, of using the GMail
app on iOS versus using that same GMail app on Android.

I realize this is too deep technically for 99.9% of the people on this newsgroup, but the simplified takeaway is that the GMail app itself is actually more private on iOS than it is on Android - which is ironic.

The ability to use gmail labels and have them automatically applied based
on my filters is important to me. No other mail app that I’ve seen will
port the gmail label system

Moving to the next Google app in terms of privacy, there is a DIFFERENT
(yet huge!) loss of privacy when you use the Google Maps product on Android than on iOS!

Yes. Who would have thought that Android is _less_ private than iOS when using the Google Maps app! Much less private in fact. And Google does this very discretely, which, again, is lost on 99.9% of the people out there.

When you use the Google Maps app on iOS without logging into the Google
Maps app itself, as far as I know the last time I tested this (admittedly a while ago), the Google Maps app does NOT change the iOS settings to pernicious uploading of your location and _other_ critical information such as bluetooth and Wi-Fi access point identifying details.

By way of stark contrast, when you use the Google Maps app on Android
without logging into the app itself, it _asks_ you to turn on "Location",
but it doesn't tell you overtly that this location switch is DIFFERENT from the user turning on location manually (usually with the teardrop tile),
and, get this... this is critical... what's lost on 99.9% of the people out there is that NO OTHER MAP APP on the Android phone is allowed to do what
the Google map does, which is turn on precise location settings, which, as noted, also turn on uploading of bluetooth and Wi-Fi information to Google servers!

Waze is better than Apple Maps although it’s now owned by Google.

Notice in both cases above, you have more privacy with iOS Google apps than with the Android equivalents to those same Google apps (although you
already lost some of that privacy already on iOS due to the mothership account being forced upon users in order to make the device usable).

Luckily, the Android FOSS equivalents I had suggested don't have that
privacy loss, and, in fact, the FOSS apps specifically are engineered for privacy protection such that anyone intelligent and well informed (yes, I know, that's only about 0.1% of the people on these newsgroups) can avoid that loss of privacy but they'd have to first know what I just told you.

Luckily, the simple takeaway is never use Google apps on Android when there is a FOSS equivalent to that Google app, which, brings us to the next app.

On iOS, the default browser, whether you like that one browser or not, as
you are well aware, is Safari - and on Android it's Chrome. While you can
add Chrome to iOS, you can't make it the default (last I checked), which is
a good thing actually, whereas on Android it comes as the default browser.

Actually now you can set it as the default browser. I think that changed
with iOS 13 or 14.

The bad thing about Chrome with respect to privacy is that it _requires_
you to sign an agreement with Google, which is the topic of a different thread on the c.m.a ng but the same agreement (presumably) applies to iOS. *What exactly are you AGREEING to when you use Google default apps?* <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/FihfWq_1Ojs>

Thankfully, ungoogled chromium FOSS replacements exist for most common consumer platforms, which does NOT require that agreement to be signed. <https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium>

Unfortunately for iOS users, the _one_ platform that the ungoogled chromium is _not_ available for is iOS - so you can't use ungoogled chromium at all. <https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium/issues/1103>
"all browsers for iOS are just reskins of safari"

Finally, we get to the FOSS YouTube client replacement apps, of which I'm sure the uneducated iKook Bob Campbell is as ignorant of as are the rest.

This one app is, in my humble opinion, one of the top five FOSS apps that have ever been designed for a mobile device, along with and on a similar level in terms of privacy and functionality to the Aurora Google Play Store client and to the NetGuard system-wide firewall - none of which will Google allow on the Google Play Store itself, but all of which are easily found. <https://newpipe.net/>
<https://auroraoss.com/>
<https://email.faircode.eu/>
<https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard> <https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium>

Notice that Google _hates_ the FOSS NewPipe functionality with such a
passion that it's not even allowed on the Google Play Store repository!

Suffice to say this FOSS YouTube client does _everything_ the Google
YouTube client does and then it does so privately, and, most importantly,
it provides more than the functionality of YouTube Premium, for free.

Since the source code is public, and since Google has good lawyers, and
since it's designed to follow all applicable laws, Google can't stop it.

What I love most about this FOSS Google YouTube client that Bob Campbell is certainly wholly ignorant of, is that there are never Google inserted ads!

Now, given the iPad is larger than my phablet, I would _love_ to find a replacement FOSS client for iOS, but they simply do not exist on the Apple App store. However there _are_ some apps that I've used which nospam
insists are replacements, but he doesn't even have an Android device most likely so he hsa no idea what he's talking about. I do.

I've tried them, and they're just ok - as what they do (last I checked) is substitute their own ads for those you don't see coming from Google.

That's better than nothing, but it's not even close to comparable, and, in terms of privacy, none of those iOS apps allow you to do things like subscribe to a channel w/o using your Google Account to do so which NewPipe allows by design (as does Aurora for the Google Play Store functionality).

Alas, there is no way on iOS to do either of those two things anonymously, since you _must_ use the account associated with the device only on iOS.

In summary, if you are technically competent on both platforms you can find substitutes for Google products where, surprisingly, on the iOS platform
some of those substitutes are actually _more_ private (but not all).

It’s obvious privacy is the #1 issue you care about, which is completely understandable. But at the expense of privacy comes inconvenience which is
a trade off one has to weigh. What I find even more troubling is people plastering the details of their lives all over social apps and performing
soap operas about their relationships for the world to see.

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.privacy

In article <tk8ogl$1e7o$[email protected]>, badgolferman <[email protected]> wrote:

The ability to use gmail labels and have them automatically applied based
on my filters is important to me. No other mail app that I�ve seen will
port the gmail label system

that's because it's non-standard.

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.privacy

Andy Burnelli <[email protected]> wrote:

Notice how this uneducated ignorant low-self-esteem iKook "Bob Campbell" polluted your rather useful (and unique topic) thread out of his spite?

The comedy is in your blanket statement that “FOSS software is always better”.

When ARE you going to grow up? Only children run around screaming “I am
an adult”. You keep SAYING you are an adult, but every time you post here proves you are 1 5 year old jerk who knows nothing about iOS.

Or FOSS. Or any topic that I have seen you pontificate on.

BTW, Apple does NOT update the entire 7GB of iOS if only a single line of
code was changed. I see you are STILL spewing that utter bullshit.

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.privacy

Bob Campbell wrote:

Notice how this uneducated ignorant low-self-esteem iKook "Bob Campbell"
polluted your rather useful (and unique topic) thread out of his spite?

The comedy is in your blanket statement that "FOSS software is always better".

I'm going to try to speak to you as if you are an adult, instead of as you being merely just another of the many uneducated ignorant unintelligent
iKooks who infest this newsgroup due to their low self esteem issues.

When ARE you going to grow up?

You'll notice my conversation with badgolferman is reasonable, logical, balanced, and most importantly, adult.

Why do you think every conversation with you is not?

Only children run around screaming "I am
an adult". You keep SAYING you are an adult, but every time you post here proves you are 1 5 year old jerk who knows nothing about iOS.

Projection.

Or FOSS.

What's interesting is how much you (but only you) misunderstood.
Notice badgolferman had no trouble understanding what we discussed.
It's only you.

Or any topic that I have seen you pontificate on.

What's also interesting is that any adult conversation you consider pontification.

BTW, Apple does NOT update the entire 7GB of iOS if only a single line of code was changed.

Again, you misunderstand what was said, even as that statement was never
said (to my knowledge) in this thread. But I do happen to own adult
cognitive skills, unlike you, so I do understand your (errant) belief
system.

I see you are STILL spewing that utter bullshit.

Having read your entire response and finding nothing of any adult value, I
will point out to the adults on this newsgroup that you misunderstood my statement about FOSS apps.

To his credit, badgolferman did understand what I was saying was the FOSS replacements that I've personally tested and listed and described (such as NewPipe for YouTube and Ungoogled Chromium and Aurora, etc.) were all
better than the Google apps they replaced, namely the Google YouTube
client, the Chrome browser client, and the Google Play Store clients).

Unfortunately for you, you don't own the adult cognitive skills to
comprehend what everyone else easily understood was being said.

This is why you're all worked up, by the way - because you appear to hate yourself for not owning any ability whatsoever for carrying on a
reasonable, logically defensible point of view.

To put it bluntly, you didn't understand a thing, but you think you did.
That's a prescription for disaster - which is why you hate yourself.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which in this case was to clarify my statements on FOSS replacement apps.

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.privacy

On 2022-11-06, Andy Burnelli <[email protected]> wrote:

Bob Campbell wrote:

Notice how this uneducated ignorant low-self-esteem iKook "Bob
Campbell" polluted your rather useful (and unique topic) thread out
of his spite?

The comedy is in your blanket statement that "FOSS software is always
better".

I'm going to try to speak to you as if you are an adult

NARRATOR: He won't.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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Jolly Roger wrote:

I'm going to try to speak to you as if you are an adult

NARRATOR: He won't.

The adults on this newsgroup know who the child-like iKooks are where they (i.e., you, Jolly Roger) are all uneducated, ill-informed, and above all,
of a rather disproportionately low IQ).

All those traits each of you child-like iKooks share isn't what makes you iKooks though.

Nay.
Plenty of people on Usenet are stupid.
Plenty of them have no education too.

But you iKooks are different.
You only exist in the main on iOS newsgroups.

Why is that?
I know why because I've studied you iKooks for more than a decade.

I know why you do what you do, perhaps more than you even know why.
Want me to tell you why?

you hate yourself.
Yes.

You hate that your entire life everyone has been calling you stupid.
It never ends.

Why?
Because you _are_ stupid.

And yet, you don't even realize it.
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad, but you're actually too stupid to realize how incredibly stupid you are.

That's a pretty bad indictment on you iKooks but that's not the worst.

What worse is that you invested almost all of your loss of self esteem into
the Apple Propaganda that Apple (brilliantly) has fed you over the years.

You are so invested in that errant Apple propaganda that your entire belief system as it revolves around Apple products is immune to facts.

That alone wouldn't be too bad but what makes you iKooks is that any fact
that belies your errant belief system, you consider a danger to your ego.

If you weren't told your entire life that you were stupid, this wouldn't be
so bad, but because your whole life you've been told you're stupid, you're desperate for someone (anyone!) to tell you that you're NOT stupid.

You know who does that for you?
I do.

Apple.

Yup.
Apple.

Apple told you that you were smart for paying all that money for their fantastically advertised and highly stylish product Jolly Roger.

Apple appreciates you.
Very much indeed.

Apple rewards your ego, Jolly Roger.
You like that don't you.

Apple makes you feel "not stupid" for the first time in your life, Jolly
Roger. I get it. I understand you Jolly Roger. I know what makes you tick.

You are desperate for someone (anyone) to tell you that you're NOT stupid.
And Apple is HAPPY to tell you that.

In fact, the reason you gloat over Apple profits (which no normal person
would ever do unless they're investors) is BECAUS you're desperate for affirmation that you're NOT stupid.

Apple profits means you made a good choice which means you're NOT stupid.
I wonder if you will ever realize what everyone else knows about you?

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On 11/6/2022 12:27:59 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:

Hence, the Chrome you get (which uses webkit anyway), is not really giving you much more of a functionality over Safari but that's only because Apple requires all iOS web browsers to use webkit (which is inferior in almost
all ways in terms of functionality).

Webkit isn't inferior.
It's puts Safari under the Chrome graphical interface.

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