• Where are they now?

    From Folderol@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 11 21:41:38 2024
    I don't know what made me think about this, but does anyone know what happened to all the people working at Computer Concepts way back in the BBC B days?
    I had Wordwise and and probably still have up in the attic!
    I remember they went on to produce Impression for the Archimedes, but then rather seemed to drop out of sight.

    --
    Basic

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  • From Nigel Reed@21:1/5 to Folderol on Thu Jan 11 20:53:11 2024
    On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 21:41:38 +0000
    Folderol <[email protected]> wrote:

    I don't know what made me think about this, but does anyone know what happened to all the people working at Computer Concepts way back in
    the BBC B days? I had Wordwise and and probably still have up in the
    attic! I remember they went on to produce Impression for the
    Archimedes, but then rather seemed to drop out of sight.


    Why don't you drop them an email?

    http://www.cconcepts.co.uk/docs/mail.htm

    --
    End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
    telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23

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  • From Dave@21:1/5 to Folderol on Fri Jan 12 08:31:42 2024
    In article <20240111214138.3e8cd141@devuan>,
    Folderol <[email protected]> wrote:
    I don't know what made me think about this, but does anyone know what happened to all the people working at Computer Concepts way back in the
    BBC B days? I had Wordwise and and probably still have up in the attic!
    I remember they went on to produce Impression for the Archimedes, but
    then rather seemed to drop out of sight.

    Long time ago now, but IIRC. At the end of their RISC OS engagement, they produced a graphics app for the Windows PC side of things, called Xara.

    Then they sold the rights to Corel so it became Corel Xara.
    Corel, who as usual didn't do much with it, and after a few years CC got
    Xara back and did some more development work on it.

    They are still at Gaddesden Place, and the Xara app I believe is
    appreciated in Pro design circles.

    Dave

    --

    Dave Triffid

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  • From Folderol@21:1/5 to Nigel Reed on Fri Jan 12 10:07:53 2024
    On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 20:53:11 -0600
    Nigel Reed <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 21:41:38 +0000
    Folderol <[email protected]> wrote:

    I don't know what made me think about this, but does anyone know what
    happened to all the people working at Computer Concepts way back in
    the BBC B days? I had Wordwise and and probably still have up in the
    attic! I remember they went on to produce Impression for the
    Archimedes, but then rather seemed to drop out of sight.


    Why don't you drop them an email?

    http://www.cconcepts.co.uk/docs/mail.htm

    Hmmm. The most recent site update is 2001 - still at least they *do* give a date, not many sites do that.

    --
    Basic

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  • From Folderol@21:1/5 to Dave on Fri Jan 12 10:14:00 2024
    On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 08:31:42 +0000 (GMT)
    Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <20240111214138.3e8cd141@devuan>,
    Folderol <[email protected]> wrote:
    I don't know what made me think about this, but does anyone know what
    happened to all the people working at Computer Concepts way back in the
    BBC B days? I had Wordwise and and probably still have up in the attic!
    I remember they went on to produce Impression for the Archimedes, but
    then rather seemed to drop out of sight.

    Long time ago now, but IIRC. At the end of their RISC OS engagement, they >produced a graphics app for the Windows PC side of things, called Xara.

    Then they sold the rights to Corel so it became Corel Xara.
    Corel, who as usual didn't do much with it, and after a few years CC got
    Xara back and did some more development work on it.

    They are still at Gaddesden Place, and the Xara app I believe is
    appreciated in Pro design circles.

    Dave


    I did have a vague memory of Xara. It seems it's become the tail that wagged the dog :o

    Interesting that they're still at Gaddesden place - that can't be a cheap option!

    --
    Basic

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  • From Stuart@21:1/5 to Dave on Fri Jan 12 13:00:29 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <20240111214138.3e8cd141@devuan>,
    Folderol <[email protected]> wrote:
    I don't know what made me think about this, but does anyone know what happened to all the people working at Computer Concepts way back in the
    BBC B days? I had Wordwise and and probably still have up in the attic!
    I remember they went on to produce Impression for the Archimedes, but
    then rather seemed to drop out of sight.

    Long time ago now, but IIRC. At the end of their RISC OS engagement, they produced a graphics app for the Windows PC side of things, called Xara.

    Then they sold the rights to Corel so it became Corel Xara.
    Corel, who as usual didn't do much with it, and after a few years CC got
    Xara back and did some more development work on it.

    They are still at Gaddesden Place, and the Xara app I believe is
    appreciated in Pro design circles.

    Didn't Martin W�rthner work for them?

    --
    Stuart Winsor

    Tools With A Mission
    sending tools across the world
    http://www.twam.co.uk/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Chris Hughes@21:1/5 to Stuart on Fri Jan 12 13:30:43 2024
    In message <[email protected]>
    Stuart <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <20240111214138.3e8cd141@devuan>,
    Folderol <[email protected]> wrote:
    I don't know what made me think about this, but does anyone know what
    happened to all the people working at Computer Concepts way back in the
    BBC B days? I had Wordwise and and probably still have up in the attic!
    I remember they went on to produce Impression for the Archimedes, but
    then rather seemed to drop out of sight.

    Long time ago now, but IIRC. At the end of their RISC OS engagement, they
    produced a graphics app for the Windows PC side of things, called Xara.

    Then they sold the rights to Corel so it became Corel Xara.
    Corel, who as usual didn't do much with it, and after a few years CC got
    Xara back and did some more development work on it.

    They are still at Gaddesden Place, and the Xara app I believe is
    appreciated in Pro design circles.

    Didn't Martin Wurthner work for them?

    Yes he worked on Xara for sometime since it was based initially off
    Artworks. But left after awhile.



    --
    Chris Hughes

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  • From Stuart@21:1/5 to Chris Hughes on Fri Jan 12 17:08:06 2024
    In article <410796215b.chris@mytardis>,
    Chris Hughes <[email protected]> wrote:
    Didn't Martin Wurthner work for them?

    Yes he worked on Xara for sometime since it was based initially off
    Artworks. But left after awhile.

    Anyone know what he is up to now, I know he became a father, but nothing
    on his web page since 2021

    --
    Stuart Winsor

    Tools With A Mission
    sending tools across the world
    http://www.twam.co.uk/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Sniffer@21:1/5 to Stuart on Fri Jan 12 17:44:30 2024
    On 12/01/2024 17:08, Stuart wrote:
    In article <410796215b.chris@mytardis>,
    Chris Hughes <[email protected]> wrote:
    Didn't Martin Wurthner work for them?

    Yes he worked on Xara for sometime since it was based initially off
    Artworks. But left after awhile.

    Anyone know what he is up to now, I know he became a father, but nothing
    on his web page since 2021


    He's still maintaininig Artworks as far as I know.

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  • From Folderol@21:1/5 to Sniffer on Fri Jan 12 19:53:54 2024
    On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 17:44:30 +0000
    Sniffer <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 12/01/2024 17:08, Stuart wrote:
    In article <410796215b.chris@mytardis>,
    Chris Hughes <[email protected]> wrote:
    Didn't Martin Wurthner work for them?

    Yes he worked on Xara for sometime since it was based initially off
    Artworks. But left after awhile.

    Anyone know what he is up to now, I know he became a father, but nothing
    on his web page since 2021


    He's still maintaininig Artworks as far as I know.
    The only name I remembered was Charles Moir. I see he's still the boss.
    I seem to remember there were about half a dozen there at first, but can't remember any names.
    I didn't know Martin had worked there. Somehow I've always thought of him as being an independent developer.

    --
    Basic

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  • From Dave@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 13 05:49:19 2024
    I'm redirecting this for a friend Michael Harding who finds he is unable
    ATM. to post to the Newsgroup...

    Dave

    -----------------------------------------------------

    I obtained a free program years ago from a computer magazine. I had to
    register it but it was way beyond my needs. I unwittingly accepted
    their bulletins but never bothered to unsubscribe.

    A bulletin happened to arrive today so I looked at it instead of
    deleting it. 'Ana from Xara' invited me to buy Xara Photo & Graphic
    Design v.20 @ $60 or rent it monthly.

    http://www.xara.com/about-us locates it at Gaddesden Place, Berlin and
    WFH, with a team of 48 members over 5 continents and 2m+ users. The owner ("investor") is Bellevue.eu, a private German company which apparently
    also owns Magix.

    Michael Harding

    ----------------------------------------------------

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  • From Stuart@21:1/5 to Dave on Sat Jan 13 09:00:10 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

    http://www.xara.com/about-us locates it at Gaddesden Place, Berlin and
    WFH, with a team of 48 members over 5 continents and 2m+ users. The owner ("investor") is Bellevue.eu, a private German company which apparently
    also owns Magix.


    Interesting

    --
    Stuart Winsor

    Tools With A Mission
    sending tools across the world
    http://www.twam.co.uk/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Folderol@21:1/5 to Stuart on Sat Jan 13 15:13:14 2024
    On Sat, 13 Jan 24 09:00:10 UTC
    Stuart <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

    http://www.xara.com/about-us locates it at Gaddesden Place, Berlin and
    WFH, with a team of 48 members over 5 continents and 2m+ users. The owner
    ("investor") is Bellevue.eu, a private German company which apparently
    also owns Magix.


    Interesting


    Strange! So did they sell out?

    --
    Basic

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  • From Richard Ashbery@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Jan 13 17:44:51 2024
    In article <unrtpu$3frht$[email protected]>, Sniffer <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 12/01/2024 17:08, Stuart wrote:
    In article <410796215b.chris@mytardis>, Chris Hughes
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    Didn't Martin Wurthner work for them?

    Yes he worked on Xara for sometime since it was based initially
    off Artworks. But left after awhile.

    Anyone know what he is up to now, I know he became a father, but
    nothing on his web page since 2021


    He's still maintaininig Artworks as far as I know.

    Are you sure?

    I always looked forward to the updates he produced but the last one
    ('Shape Pointer/Eraser' tool I think) was 2 years ago in November
    2021. I wonder if he's still able to work on ArtWorks - sadly it won't
    pay the bills incurred with a young family. It would be interesting to
    know what he's doing.

    I still enjoy using ArtWorks because of its simple tool sytem and
    reliability. Does anyone remember Vantage - a fantastic bit of
    software provided you weren't concerned about reliability. The
    discovery of ArtWorks, after using Vantage was a revelation. I use
    Xara Photo and Graphic Designer very infrequently but the learning
    curve is long.

    Richard

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  • From Martin Wuerthner@21:1/5 to Chris Hughes on Fri Mar 22 18:30:04 2024
    Chris Hughes <[email protected]> wrote:

    In message <[email protected]>
    Stuart <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <20240111214138.3e8cd141@devuan>,
    Folderol <[email protected]> wrote:
    I don't know what made me think about this, but does anyone know
    what happened to all the people working at Computer Concepts way
    back in the BBC B days? I had Wordwise and and probably still have
    up in the attic! I remember they went on to produce Impression for
    the Archimedes, but then rather seemed to drop out of sight.

    Long time ago now, but IIRC. At the end of their RISC OS engagement,
    they produced a graphics app for the Windows PC side of things, called Xara.

    Then they sold the rights to Corel so it became Corel Xara. Corel, who
    as usual didn't do much with it, and after a few years CC got Xara
    back and did some more development work on it.

    They are still at Gaddesden Place, and the Xara app I believe is appreciated in Pro design circles.

    Didn't Martin Wurthner work for them?

    Yes he worked on Xara for sometime since it was based initially off
    Artworks. But left after awhile.

    "a while" being 18 years. ;-) I stopped working for Xara two months ago.

    Sorry about jumping in so late, I found it increasingly hard to find a
    reliable news server in recent years, so I gave up on news for quite a
    while.

    Martin
    --
    Martin Wuerthner MW Software http://www.mw-software.com/

    ------- RISC OS Software for Design, Printing and Publishing --------

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  • From Folderol@21:1/5 to Martin Wuerthner on Fri Mar 22 20:09:03 2024
    On Fri, 22 Mar 24 18:30:04 UTC
    Martin Wuerthner <[email protected]> wrote:

    Chris Hughes <[email protected]> wrote:

    In message <[email protected]>
    Stuart <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <20240111214138.3e8cd141@devuan>,
    Folderol <[email protected]> wrote:
    I don't know what made me think about this, but does anyone know
    what happened to all the people working at Computer Concepts way
    back in the BBC B days? I had Wordwise and and probably still have
    up in the attic! I remember they went on to produce Impression for
    the Archimedes, but then rather seemed to drop out of sight.

    Long time ago now, but IIRC. At the end of their RISC OS engagement,
    they produced a graphics app for the Windows PC side of things, called >> > > Xara.

    Then they sold the rights to Corel so it became Corel Xara. Corel, who >> > > as usual didn't do much with it, and after a few years CC got Xara
    back and did some more development work on it.

    They are still at Gaddesden Place, and the Xara app I believe is
    appreciated in Pro design circles.

    Didn't Martin Wurthner work for them?

    Yes he worked on Xara for sometime since it was based initially off
    Artworks. But left after awhile.

    "a while" being 18 years. ;-) I stopped working for Xara two months ago.

    Sorry about jumping in so late, I found it increasingly hard to find a >reliable news server in recent years, so I gave up on news for quite a
    while.

    Martin

    Good to hear from you. Would the reason you stopped be retirement by any chance?
    (well into retirement myself)

    --
    Basic

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  • From Brian Howlett@21:1/5 to Martin Wuerthner on Sat Mar 23 00:33:34 2024
    On 22 Mar, Martin Wuerthner <[email protected]> wrote:

    I found it increasingly hard to find a reliable news server in recent
    years, so I gave up on news for quite a while.

    http://news.individual.net - 10 Euros a year and has never let me down yet. They are based at Freie Universitat, Berlin, and offer a free two-week trial.
    --
    Brian Howlett - Email to From: address deleted unseen --------------------------------------------------------------
    Windows has detected that the mouse has been moved.
    You must restart Windows for the new setting to take effect...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dave@21:1/5 to Brian Howlett on Sat Mar 23 08:18:15 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Brian Howlett <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 22 Mar, Martin Wuerthner <[email protected]> wrote:

    I found it increasingly hard to find a reliable news server in recent years, so I gave up on news for quite a while.

    http://news.individual.net - 10 Euros a year and has never let me down
    yet. They are based at Freie Universitat, Berlin, and offer a free
    two-week trial.

    I agree, I've been using nin for many, many years and they are very
    reliable.

    My second fiddle in the news department is...

    http://news.eternal-september.org

    Which is free, but needs a registration, and on the whole resonably
    reliable.


    Dave

    --

    Dave Triffid

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  • From Richard Ashbery@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 25 15:50:25 2024
    In article <[email protected]>, Dave <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, Brian Howlett
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 22 Mar, Martin Wuerthner <[email protected]> wrote:

    I found it increasingly hard to find a reliable news server in
    recent years, so I gave up on news for quite a while.

    http://news.individual.net - 10 Euros a year and has never let me
    down yet. They are based at Freie Universitat, Berlin, and offer
    a free two-week trial.

    I agree, I've been using nin for many, many years and they are very
    reliable.

    Excellent service - never had any issues (hoping I'm not tempting
    providence) - consistently reliable and at a price that hasn't changed
    in years. If signing-up via RISC OS then a Javascript browser like
    Iris will be necessary.

    Richard

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  • From Alexander Ausserstorfer@21:1/5 to Martin Wuerthner on Sun May 26 07:47:33 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Martin Wuerthner <[email protected]> wrote:

    Sorry about jumping in so late, I found it increasingly hard to find a reliable news server in recent years, so I gave up on news for quite a
    while.

    My dream is a computer club (or foundation?) which is running a news
    server, an email server, a file server, a web server and so on for its
    members and which is publishing a printed magazine (here in Germany with
    the head line 'Datenblatt'), too, and whose aim is also to teach and
    train their members (and non-members) how to use all these technologies, independend of operating system and processor architecture.

    It is unbelievable how weak is knowledge of people in that field where
    we have computers everywhere today.

    I'm using RISC OS for more then 30 years now and I will stick to it.
    Under RISC OS you cannot do all and everything today, especially
    belonging the web stuff, but you can do a lot often in a more simple and transparent way and because of this you can learn there a lot of basics.

    Today almost everything is so complicated and akwarded. RISC OS is here
    often an expection. It is in the way I like.

    A.

    --
    http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Chris Newman@21:1/5 to Alexander Ausserstorfer on Sun May 26 12:06:02 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Alexander Ausserstorfer <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Martin Wuerthner <[email protected]> wrote:

    Sorry about jumping in so late, I found it increasingly hard to find a reliable news server in recent years, so I gave up on news for quite a while.

    My dream is a computer club (or foundation?) which is running a news
    server, an email server, a file server, a web server and so on for its members and which is publishing a printed magazine (here in Germany with
    the head line 'Datenblatt'), too, and whose aim is also to teach and
    train their members (and non-members) how to use all these technologies, independend of operating system and processor architecture.

    It is unbelievable how weak is knowledge of people in that field where
    we have computers everywhere today.

    I'm using RISC OS for more then 30 years now and I will stick to it.
    Under RISC OS you cannot do all and everything today, especially
    belonging the web stuff, but you can do a lot often in a more simple and transparent way and because of this you can learn there a lot of basics.

    Today almost everything is so complicated and akwarded. RISC OS is here
    often an expection. It is in the way I like.

    I agree with you sentiments entirely. I can do things so much more
    quickly and efficiently with RIS OS.

    --
    Chris

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  • From J Peachey@21:1/5 to Alexander Ausserstorfer on Sun May 26 15:00:03 2024
    In message <[email protected]>
    Alexander Ausserstorfer <[email protected]> wrote:

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Martin Wuerthner <[email protected]> wrote:

    Sorry about jumping in so late, I found it increasingly hard to find a
    reliable news server in recent years, so I gave up on news for quite a
    while.

    My dream is a computer club (or foundation?) which is running a news
    server, an email server, a file server, a web server and so on for its members and which is publishing a printed magazine (here in Germany with
    the head line 'Datenblatt'), too, and whose aim is also to teach and
    train their members (and non-members) how to use all these technologies, independend of operating system and processor architecture.

    It is unbelievable how weak is knowledge of people in that field where
    we have computers everywhere today.

    I'm using RISC OS for more then 30 years now and I will stick to it.
    Under RISC OS you cannot do all and everything today, especially
    belonging the web stuff, but you can do a lot often in a more simple and transparent way and because of this you can learn there a lot of basics.

    Today almost everything is so complicated and akwarded. RISC OS is here
    often an expection. It is in the way I like.

    A.

    I also agree with you Alexander. I seem to have forgotten more than most
    people know about computers these days. Education seems to be about using
    the basic functions of Word/Excel, with little Knowledge about the
    workings. Perhaps we were lucky growing up with BBCs, Archimedes et al,
    where we could learn. I also miss the likes of Beebug/Risc User which
    helped you learn about the machines.

    As to modern machines, most Windows stuff spends 90% of it's life
    continually updating installing stuff. Whereas RISC OS you turn the
    machine on knowing you can get on with the task in hand.

    With Iris, I can now do a lot more web based stuff than in the past.

    Kind regards
    John

    --
    _________________________________________
    | University of Glos. Blighting Longlevens.
    | mailto:[email protected]
    _______________________| http://www.jpeachey.co.uk

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  • From Thomas Milius@21:1/5 to Alexander Ausserstorfer on Sun May 26 17:54:02 2024
    In message <[email protected]>
    Alexander Ausserstorfer <[email protected]> wrote:

    My dream is a computer club (or foundation?) which is running a news
    server, an email server, a file server, a web server and so on for its members and which is publishing a printed magazine

    Of course you are allowed to have dreams ... ;-) however meanwhile the
    trouble starts if running a public email server. AFAIR if you should dare to
    do so, you have to take into account the requirements of secret service(s)
    :-(. If you are refusing to do so you will got a lot of trouble. Ok Germanys prisons are still having a "good reputation" compared to other countries but
    I must say that I am personally not seeing any need to take such an
    "occasion" ... even you might have a lot of time for club administration ...

    Times changed during the last 30 years in this case unfortunately.

    Thomas Milius

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  • From Alexander Ausserstorfer@21:1/5 to Thomas Milius on Sat Jun 1 09:05:20 2024
    In article <3d0029675b.Thomas@tms_netz.vodafonemail.de>,
    Thomas Milius <[email protected]> wrote:
    In message <[email protected]>
    Alexander Ausserstorfer <[email protected]> wrote:

    My dream is a computer club (or foundation?) which is running a news
    server, an email server, a file server, a web server and so on for
    its members and which is publishing a printed magazine

    Of course you are allowed to have dreams ... ;-) however meanwhile the trouble starts if running a public email server. AFAIR if you should
    dare to do so, you have to take into account the requirements of
    secret service(s) :-(.

    The TLS / SSL is here (email) only mindfull for secure login. If there
    are laws, a club can surely take care of it and train or teach people in
    such things. I don't see the problem.

    If you are refusing to do so you will got a lot of trouble. Ok
    Germanys prisons are still having a "good reputation" compared to
    other countries but I must say that I am personally not seeing any
    need to take such an "occasion" ... even you might have a lot of time
    for club administration ...

    The task for such a club may not be only running any server but _also_,
    and this have to be the MAIN TASK!, train their club members and other
    people in dealing with the provided services. How to deal with emails,
    for example, because people using these service today but often have no
    clue about it.

    A.

    --
    http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/

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  • From Alexander Ausserstorfer@21:1/5 to J Peachey on Sat Jun 1 08:53:09 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    J Peachey <[email protected]> wrote:

    With Iris, I can now do a lot more web based stuff than in the past.

    The web isn't fast and slim and in the way RISC OS is. It is often a
    bumptious monster and digital overkill, a complicated chaos like Windows
    is. It is not effective and in the simplest way it could be so why using
    it?

    A.

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    http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/

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  • From Alexander Ausserstorfer@21:1/5 to Alexander Ausserstorfer on Thu Aug 15 07:45:25 2024
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Alexander Ausserstorfer <[email protected]> wrote:
    In article <3d0029675b.Thomas@tms_netz.vodafonemail.de>,
    Thomas Milius <[email protected]> wrote:

    If you are refusing to do so you will got a lot of trouble. Ok
    Germanys prisons are still having a "good reputation" compared to
    other countries but I must say that I am personally not seeing any
    need to take such an "occasion" ... even you might have a lot of time
    for club administration ...

    The task for such a club may not be only running any server but _also_,
    and this have to be the MAIN TASK!, train their club members and other
    people in dealing with the provided services. How to deal with emails,
    for example, because people using these service today but often have no
    clue about it.

    I found the B�rgernetzverband (www.buerger.net) but it seams to be
    quite inactive and also I didn't find any information about their
    activities oder just a printed magazine from them to order nor the
    services they offer.

    People have to understand that using Internet is not enough. The problem
    begins with the keyboard - most people here cannot type blind with ten
    fingers - but they should use computers in office and at home! So a
    starting point may be a shorthand and typewriting club. Typewriting ist something you can do without any problems on RISC OS. I'm using RISC OS
    a lot to do it (typing and creating textes). There is a huge world
    beyond the web and what you can do with RISC OS. Especially the text
    editors are very STRONG (!Zap and !StrongEd).

    A.

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    http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/

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