• Re: Computer Build

    From Ross Ridge@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Dec 4 06:06:23 2024
    Justisaur <[email protected]> wrote:
    AMD Ryzen 5 8500G $149

    That's a CPU with decent integrated graphics, good enough to games at
    1080p if you turn down the graphics settings and aren't playing anything
    too modern (eg. good enough for Fortnite.) But it would be wasted if
    you're using a graphics card. You probably selected it because its the cheapest AM5 CPU out there, but I don't know if it's really worth it.
    I'd spend more and get at least a 7600. If that's too much money, then
    you might want to switch to an AM4 CPU which should also let you save some money on the motherboard and maybe RAM while get getting a faster CPU.

    --
    l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
    [oo][oo] [email protected]
    -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
    db //

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to Justisaur on Wed Dec 4 09:37:21 2024
    On 02/12/2024 21:23, Justisaur wrote:
    My son expressed an interest in upgrading his computer, he's waffling
    though, as I told him he needs to pay for it himself.  He has the money,
    but doesn't want to use it.  I would pay local taxes to help out.

    My goal was to keep costs down, but make it at least as good as what I
    have now. The one he has now is a handmedown from his grands,
    unfortunately the case is a propriatary dell with a propriatary
    motherboard, a normal ATX doesn't fit in it, so I can't use it.  I may
    be able to use the PSU, but need to tear it apart to do so.  I'm only planning on a 500W PSU as it seems power requirements have gone down considerably.

    My not so helpfully advice is don't overthink it too much as the reality
    is unless you do something disastrous it's going to do the job for you.
    My last upgrade, instead of doing my customary spending ages trying to
    decide exactly what to get I went down the I don't need a 'god like' PC
    so let's just spend a little bit of time online looking for recommended
    budget gaming set-ups. Did I get the best value for money, almost
    definitely not but I also didn't waste hours upon hours of 'research'
    just to say feck it I'll go with that which I looked at two weeks ago.

    The other problem I found is that what would seem a good place for
    advice (real people online) turns out to be really problematic in that
    it ranges from at worst bad advice and at best this is the system I
    would want regardless of whether that would met your needs. Oh you want
    a new PC for general day-to-day stuff as some light gaming. Well clearly
    what you want is system built around a 4090!

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  • From Rin Stowleigh@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Dec 5 21:06:04 2024
    On Wed, 04 Dec 2024 13:59:03 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Wed, 4 Dec 2024 09:37:21 +0000, JAB <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 02/12/2024 21:23, Justisaur wrote:
    My son expressed an interest in upgrading his computer, he's waffling
    though, as I told him he needs to pay for it himself.� He has the money, >>> but doesn't want to use it.� I would pay local taxes to help out.

    My goal was to keep costs down, but make it at least as good as what I
    have now. The one he has now is a handmedown from his grands,
    unfortunately the case is a propriatary dell with a propriatary
    motherboard, a normal ATX doesn't fit in it, so I can't use it.� I may
    be able to use the PSU, but need to tear it apart to do so.� I'm only
    planning on a 500W PSU as it seems power requirements have gone down
    considerably.

    My not so helpfully advice is don't overthink it too much as the reality
    is unless you do something disastrous it's going to do the job for you.
    My last upgrade, instead of doing my customary spending ages trying to >>decide exactly what to get I went down the I don't need a 'god like' PC
    so let's just spend a little bit of time online looking for recommended >>budget gaming set-ups. Did I get the best value for money, almost >>definitely not but I also didn't waste hours upon hours of 'research'
    just to say feck it I'll go with that which I looked at two weeks ago.

    The other problem I found is that what would seem a good place for
    advice (real people online) turns out to be really problematic in that
    it ranges from at worst bad advice and at best this is the system I
    would want regardless of whether that would met your needs. Oh you want
    a new PC for general day-to-day stuff as some light gaming. Well clearly >>what you want is system built around a 4090!

    If money is an issue and you aren't going for LATEST AND GREATEST AND
    FASTEST AND OTHER -ESTS!, you may also wish to consider the Intel Arc
    GPUs (although that may force you onto an Intel CPU). The Arc B580 is >reportedly as fast as an Nvidia 4060 and for $250 USD that's a pretty
    good performance-to-price ratio.

    There is much more importance than there used to be between the raw computational speed of the GPU and the level of optimization of the
    drivers for specific games. It is no longer one setting fits all. I
    got a bit of a wake up call on this with my recent rig upgrade...
    comparing what would happen default out of the box vs NVidia app
    recommended optimizations vs spending time tweaking and twiddling
    myself. The difference can sometimes feel like two generations of PC
    upgrades and/or make a big difference on the spectrum of
    immersiveness.

    On one hand I feel obligated toward a walk of shame that I've still
    been gaming on 1080p all this time because I thought that was okay,
    but at the same time have bemoaning the state of gaming when some of
    them are quite entertaining once played on proper hardware.

    Not only that, but I've been going back to some older ones like FC5
    and FC6, and seeing them at 1440p at e-sports level frame rates and
    refresh rates breathes new life into titles I already owned.

    nVidia is till top of the pack when it comes to GPU.

    Meanwhile I'm really enjoying gaming again. Go figure, the more
    things change the more they stay the same.

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to Justisaur on Fri Dec 6 11:21:47 2024
    On 05/12/2024 20:47, Justisaur wrote:
    On 12/4/2024 1:37 AM, JAB wrote:
    On 02/12/2024 21:23, Justisaur wrote:
    My son expressed an interest in upgrading his computer, he's waffling
    though, as I told him he needs to pay for it himself.  He has the
    money, but doesn't want to use it.  I would pay local taxes to help out. >>>
    My goal was to keep costs down, but make it at least as good as what
    I have now. The one he has now is a handmedown from his grands,
    unfortunately the case is a propriatary dell with a propriatary
    motherboard, a normal ATX doesn't fit in it, so I can't use it.  I
    may be able to use the PSU, but need to tear it apart to do so.  I'm
    only planning on a 500W PSU as it seems power requirements have gone
    down considerably.

    My not so helpfully advice is don't overthink it too much as the
    reality is unless you do something disastrous it's going to do the job
    for you. My last upgrade, instead of doing my customary spending ages
    trying to decide exactly what to get I went down the I don't need a
    'god like' PC so let's just spend a little bit of time online looking
    for recommended budget gaming set-ups. Did I get the best value for
    money, almost definitely not but I also didn't waste hours upon hours
    of 'research' just to say feck it I'll go with that which I looked at
    two weeks ago.

    The other problem I found is that what would seem a good place for
    advice (real people online) turns out to be really problematic in that
    it ranges from at worst bad advice and at best this is the system I
    would want regardless of whether that would met your needs. Oh you
    want a new PC for general day-to-day stuff as some light gaming. Well
    clearly what you want is system built around a 4090!

    The adive I've gotten here has been far above anything I've found
    elsewhere over the years :)  Hopefully I've given some too.

    I already ordered it, I probably made some mistakes (as Ross pointed
    out) but it's still hundreds of dollars less than a branded gaming
    computer of probably similar performance (or more like much higher performance for the budget than one.)



    All I really know about gaming PC's is that you are almost always going
    to overpay for what you actually get unless you really value a flash
    case and some 'cool' stickers!

    I do have to put it together, which I've definitely lost a lot of my
    interest for after my last one, but I'm willing to put in the time for
    my family.  If I counted what I'm paid vs. the time put into it, I'm
    sure I come out behind.  Part of it is just my hatred of getting stuck
    with unupgradable proprietary junk.  Not that I usually upgrade anything except the video card separately, but the PS & case can last many
    generations of computer.  I know one can get the computer built to order with the parts you want but that comes at a premium.


    Similar to me as the time between refreshes means that I never really
    have a choice but to get at least MB + CPU + RAM, so much for the idea
    of future proofing a PC. As for putting it together, I cheated slightly
    with my last one in that I bought the MB + CPU + RAM pre-built. Can I
    have spent more time shopping around to get a better deal, probably but
    putting the CPU in is one of the parts I just don't like doing.

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  • From Geeknix@21:1/5 to Justisaur on Fri Dec 6 12:30:04 2024
    On 2024-12-05, Justisaur <[email protected]> wrote:
    The adive I've gotten here has been far above anything I've found
    elsewhere over the years :) Hopefully I've given some too.

    here here... when I was think "where can I get advice on my build since
    I haven't done so for decades. My first thought was c.s.i.p.g.a!

    I don't regret it. Thanks all for contributing your knowledge.

    Part of it is just my hatred of getting stuck
    with unupgradable proprietary junk.

    My goal for my build is not designing myself into a corner, but have a
    case and components that can be upgraded for a few years at least,
    longer if possible. Makes for easy Xmas presents, component UPGRADE!

    --
    Don't be afraid of the deep...
    --[ bbs.bottomlessabyss.net | https | telnet=2023 ]--
    --[ /query geeknix on libera.chat | tilde.chat ]--

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  • From Ross Ridge@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Dec 6 22:31:25 2024
    Justisaur <[email protected]> wrote:
    I tried looking into the onboard graphics for 8500G, but couldn't seem
    to find much. I should've just suggested he try that first and then
    could buy a separate graphics card if necessary, although prices are
    likely to raise considerably next year in the US for everything (tariffs.)

    Compared to a graphics card, the integrated graphics in AMD's G-suffix
    CPUs is very poor. They're basically the replacement for the low-end
    $100-$150 cards that no longer exist. Still they're significantly better
    than what integrated graphics used to be (and still are for AMD's CPUs
    without a G suffix). The CPU inside the Steam Deck has a similar CPU
    with integrated graphics, so they can be a reasonable option for someone
    who wants a cheap PC that can play older or less demanding games.

    However, if someone was looking build a cheap gaming PC without a
    graphics card, I'd recommend the 8600G as it's a fair bit faster, but
    not that much more expensive than the 8500G. On the other hand the
    8700G probably isn't worth the extra price.

    --
    l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
    [oo][oo] [email protected]
    -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
    db //

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  • From Xocyll@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 6 20:55:41 2024
    Spalls Hurgenson <[email protected]> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
    say:
    <snippety>
    One of my biggest complaints with my current PC is
    something I completely overlooked: the placement of the power-button
    (it's in the middle of the top panel; inconvenient to reach, but easy
    to press accidentally when I put something on top of the PC).

    Yeah,. Corsair 4000D case here, and the usual front of the case buttons
    are on the top of the case, as is the USB port (Way to build a dust
    collector guys.)

    But since there's no room for an internal dvd drive, I bought an
    external, which site on the top front of the computer, covering the
    buttons and USB dust collector.

    Xocyll

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  • From Rin Stowleigh@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Dec 6 21:11:12 2024
    On Fri, 06 Dec 2024 11:24:12 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson <[email protected]> wrote:


    Do you really need that bleeding edge GPU? I don't think I know any
    game which demands 16GB yet, much less 32GB, so maybe less RAM?

    Some newer games want 12GB+ of VRAM on the video card.

    Example: https://www.windowscentral.com/gaming/pc-gaming/nvidias-rtx-4060-is-aging-horribly-as-indiana-jones-and-the-great-circle-nazi-punches-vram

    For me going to a 4080Super with 16GB vram was a real eye opener, but
    that also involves the upgrade to 1440p gaming, which is a complete
    game changer *as long as your hardward lets you do it adequately* and
    that includes the right monitor. Also, 1440p gaming is growing on
    Steam hardware survey.

    Personally I really wouldn't screw with less than 32GB of RAM on a new
    gaming PC build... yes for a general web browsing system that tends to
    want to hold open an increasing number of tabs in the browser (like my
    GF), but 64GB for general system RAM and 16GB VRAM is better if
    building a system now that's designed to get some longevity out of.

    Your post did make a good point, that it matters how long you want to
    go between upgrades... do you like to go 6 years and be wow'ed by the
    eye popping difference or upgrade more modestly every 2-3 years
    because you enjoy tinkering with the hardware more than the games
    themselves? It's definitely something to consider, Different
    Strokes(tm) for Gary Coleman and all that I guess.

    One year I did a 4 year upgrade because it was necessary for other
    reasons (long story... my gaming PC of today always becomes my music
    production PC of tomorrow). And I was kind of underwhelmed by the
    difference in games. But the difference between 2018 level top of the
    line hardware and today's top of the line hardware matters tremendosly
    in games.

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  • From Xocyll@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 7 07:39:23 2024
    Justisaur <[email protected]> looked up from reading the entrails of
    the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

    On 12/6/2024 5:55 PM, Xocyll wrote:
    Spalls Hurgenson <[email protected]> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
    say:
    <snippety>
    One of my biggest complaints with my current PC is
    something I completely overlooked: the placement of the power-button
    (it's in the middle of the top panel; inconvenient to reach, but easy
    to press accidentally when I put something on top of the PC).

    Yeah,. Corsair 4000D case here, and the usual front of the case buttons
    are on the top of the case, as is the USB port (Way to build a dust collector guys.)

    But since there's no room for an internal dvd drive, I bought an
    external, which site on the top front of the computer, covering the
    buttons and USB dust collector.

    Ugh. Yeah I should've looked more closely at that, my current one has
    the USB & power on top, though that's more convenient as I've got the
    front behind my monitor, his current one is in front and that's
    obviously better based on the schmutz on the the top, but the new one's >coming with all that top mounted.

    I don't have all the parts yet. They should all be here next week
    except for the the case might not be here until after Christmas. He's >itching to get it up and running so I might do with 'cardboard box' case >until it gets here. The VC might not be here until right before
    Christmas, I don't see any point to using it until we get that though.
    I'll have to check if the CPU fan covers any screwholes too as I'm not
    taking it off to screw it in the case.

    It shouldn't.

    I mounted 2 more fans in the front, and have one in back and one of the
    two top fan slots for 3 in and 2 out.

    I even moved them around a bit sine the 3 extra fans I bought were red
    leds ones, at no time did the CPU fan get in the way.

    The one thing I had to do was buy a fan hub type thing for the fans,
    there aren't enough on-MB connecters for more then 2 fans.

    Something like https://www.canadacomputers.com/en/case-fans/148956/ican-rainbow-rgb-controller-connect-up-to-10-fans-with-wireless-remote-control-note-compatible-with-cogoe00001-or-any-4-pin-12v-icctrlrgb.html

    The external cd/dvd drive is very slim and low profile, but because it's sitting on top of the computer, I couldn't fill the last fan slot, but
    it's unnecessary and the thing covers the buttons and USB slot nicely
    and stuff can be put on it, and you just slide it back a centimeter if
    you need to reboot or use the usb slot.

    Even though the apt gets very hot in the summer, the fans never sped up
    even under double game load.

    Xocyll

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  • From Rin Stowleigh@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 7 08:13:52 2024
    On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 19:43:14 -0800, Justisaur <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    I'm still playing on 1080p myself. I suppose I should get a higher res >monitor and see if it makes a difference, but my eyes are getting old,
    and I have trouble reading at much higher resolutions on similar screen >realestate. The 27" monitor I have is really too big for gaming on my
    desk as I can't really focus on the whole screen, and I've actually been >running a lot of games windowed with smaller screen real-estate because
    of it.
    I ordered a 24" for my son as a gift (still 1080p) and am strongly >considering just giving my 27" inch to him and taking the 24", I may be
    able to fit the 19" in portrait next to it too, which I can't do with
    the 27", I miss my dual monitors.

    My preference is 1440p scaled up to 125%, it gives crisp lines on
    everything, the size of fonts is about the same as what you'd see at
    100% scaling at 1080p, but you have more overall real estate for
    productivity apps, scrolling etc.

    There are some occasional old apps (like the version of Agent I'm
    using now) where they will be blurry by default at anything higher
    than 125%, but you only have to go into the properties page for the
    app .exe and tweak the high DPI settings.

    The particular monitor I have (ASUS PG27AQN) is a bit expensive as far
    as 27" 1440p GSync monitors go ($650 USD), but it can do 360hz and it
    has the smoothest (CRT-like) gameplay of any LCD monitor I've ever
    seen, with the text clarity of an IPS monitor, non-existent blur, etc.
    It's designed for e-sports, but it's great as an overall monitor; I
    now use my gaming computer for software development, video editing,
    and music production apps whereas I used to maintain separate systems
    for gaming and productivity. I haven't compared it side-by-side with
    OLED monitors but apparently it competes with OLED for gaming
    performance overall without making the text unusably blurry for
    everything else (a problem with OLED in addition to burn-in issues).

    For the "too big" issue you're referring to, it has a mode where you
    can bump it down to 1080p with a 25" picture. E-sports gamers often
    run in a smaller mode / lower res like this in order to trade off
    immersion for competitive advantages like faster frames and narrower
    field of view to spot enemies faster.

    Also using VESA desk mounts instead of monitor stands let you adjust
    the arm for viewing distance more easily, so by moving the monitor
    farther away from your eyes you might not be bothered by screen size.

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  • From Ross Ridge@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Dec 7 20:45:47 2024
    Spalls Hurgenson <[email protected]> wrote:
    I don't think I know any game which demands 16GB yet, much less 32GB,
    so maybe less RAM?

    One game that demands 16GB is Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 which has
    a minimum requirement of 16GB, recommendeds 32GB and considers 64GB to
    be "ideal". There are other games like Indiana Jones and the Great
    Circle and Horizon: Forbidden West that also require 16GB minimum.
    We're probably not going to see many new AAA games that don't have at
    least 16GB/32GB minimum/recommended requirements.

    According to PC Gamer, those MSF 2024 requirements aren't exagerations:

    With 16 or 32 GB of memory, Flight Simulator 2024 badly jerks and
    lags as it tries to load in the world when starting a flight. Even
    just moving about in the menus isn't especially smooth with those
    amounts of RAM. But with 64 and 96 GB, it's almost stutter-free.

    https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/microsoft-says-64-gb-is-the-ideal-spec-for-flight-simulator-2024-but-ive-tested-it-with-96-gb-and-it-makes-a-big-difference/

    But perhaps more importantly 32GB of RAM is so cheap these days you
    don't save much by getting 16GB instead. 32GB should be the minimum
    amount of RAM for all but the cheapest of builds. It's not really about
    future proofing either, it's not hard or expensive to add RAM later.
    The nice thing about RAM is that it never goes to waste. Any RAM left
    unused by applications gets used as disk cache, improving loading times
    even in games that only use a fraction of your RAM directly. That "extra"
    RAM will get used today.

    (That's probably why the article above saw FPS improvements going from
    64GB to 96GB despite the fact that the game never used more than 30GB. Performance improved because it didn't have to load as much data from
    storage. Even the fastest SSDs aren't as fast as RAM.)

    --
    l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
    [oo][oo] [email protected]
    -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
    db //

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