• Re: Civ 7

    From Rin Stowleigh@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 12 13:21:15 2024
    Real AI (not what most gamers have historically called AI) integrated
    into dialog / behavior / relationships with other civilizations is
    where the franchise should go next. It's a mistake if that's not done
    in Civ 7. And if it's not done, it's only a matter of time before a
    competitor gets there first.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rin Stowleigh@21:1/5 to Kyonshi on Fri Jun 14 13:02:39 2024
    On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:08:09 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/12/2024 7:21 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

    Real AI (not what most gamers have historically called AI) integrated
    into dialog / behavior / relationships with other civilizations is
    where the franchise should go next. It's a mistake if that's not done
    in Civ 7. And if it's not done, it's only a matter of time before a
    competitor gets there first.

    so far there is no real AI. Just stuff they hype up as AI.

    Look up YT vids for a game called BodyCam. It introduces a level of
    immersive visual realism to the tactical shooter genre that to my
    knowledge hasn't been done before, and it supposed came to market via
    a couple of kids (well a 17 year old and a 20 year old).

    Someone will do something equally as disruptive to the strategy genre
    utilizing real AI soon, and if the Civ series is caught sleeping, it
    will become irrelevant overnight.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Rin Stowleigh on Sat Jun 15 11:09:38 2024
    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 19:42:32 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/14/2024 7:02 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:08:09 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/12/2024 7:21 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

    Real AI (not what most gamers have historically called AI) integrated >>>>> into dialog / behavior / relationships with other civilizations is
    where the franchise should go next. It's a mistake if that's not done >>>>> in Civ 7. And if it's not done, it's only a matter of time before a >>>>> competitor gets there first.

    so far there is no real AI. Just stuff they hype up as AI.

    Look up YT vids for a game called BodyCam. It introduces a level of
    immersive visual realism to the tactical shooter genre that to my
    knowledge hasn't been done before, and it supposed came to market via
    a couple of kids (well a 17 year old and a 20 year old).

    Someone will do something equally as disruptive to the strategy genre
    utilizing real AI soon, and if the Civ series is caught sleeping, it
    will become irrelevant overnight.

    There still is no real AI

    Years ago, I realized the juice simply was not worth the squeeze
    whenever I allowed myself to get baited into pendantic black holes of opinion-presented-as-fact-discussion.

    But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul to treat myself to
    an occasional token episode of frivolous time wasting activity? ;)

    So I'm curious what aspect of the current state of what is
    colloquially referred to as AI fails to meet your personal definition
    of "real"?

    when it actually manages to fit the definition of an AI, and not one
    written by the people that are just trying to sell you their next
    hypecycle.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rin Stowleigh@21:1/5 to Kyonshi on Sat Jun 15 06:38:18 2024
    On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 19:42:32 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/14/2024 7:02 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:08:09 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/12/2024 7:21 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

    Real AI (not what most gamers have historically called AI) integrated
    into dialog / behavior / relationships with other civilizations is
    where the franchise should go next. It's a mistake if that's not done >>>> in Civ 7. And if it's not done, it's only a matter of time before a
    competitor gets there first.

    so far there is no real AI. Just stuff they hype up as AI.

    Look up YT vids for a game called BodyCam. It introduces a level of
    immersive visual realism to the tactical shooter genre that to my
    knowledge hasn't been done before, and it supposed came to market via
    a couple of kids (well a 17 year old and a 20 year old).

    Someone will do something equally as disruptive to the strategy genre
    utilizing real AI soon, and if the Civ series is caught sleeping, it
    will become irrelevant overnight.

    There still is no real AI

    Years ago, I realized the juice simply was not worth the squeeze
    whenever I allowed myself to get baited into pendantic black holes of opinion-presented-as-fact-discussion.

    But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul to treat myself to
    an occasional token episode of frivolous time wasting activity? ;)

    So I'm curious what aspect of the current state of what is
    colloquially referred to as AI fails to meet your personal definition
    of "real"?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rin Stowleigh@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Jun 15 08:15:29 2024
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:09:38 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 19:42:32 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/14/2024 7:02 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:08:09 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>
    On 6/12/2024 7:21 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

    Real AI (not what most gamers have historically called AI) integrated >>>>>> into dialog / behavior / relationships with other civilizations is >>>>>> where the franchise should go next. It's a mistake if that's not done >>>>>> in Civ 7. And if it's not done, it's only a matter of time before a >>>>>> competitor gets there first.

    so far there is no real AI. Just stuff they hype up as AI.

    Look up YT vids for a game called BodyCam. It introduces a level of
    immersive visual realism to the tactical shooter genre that to my
    knowledge hasn't been done before, and it supposed came to market via
    a couple of kids (well a 17 year old and a 20 year old).

    Someone will do something equally as disruptive to the strategy genre
    utilizing real AI soon, and if the Civ series is caught sleeping, it
    will become irrelevant overnight.

    There still is no real AI

    Years ago, I realized the juice simply was not worth the squeeze
    whenever I allowed myself to get baited into pendantic black holes of
    opinion-presented-as-fact-discussion.

    But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul to treat myself to
    an occasional token episode of frivolous time wasting activity? ;)

    So I'm curious what aspect of the current state of what is
    colloquially referred to as AI fails to meet your personal definition
    of "real"?

    when it actually manages to fit the definition of an AI, and not one
    written by the people that are just trying to sell you their next
    hypecycle.

    To be clear, I'm completely uninterested in strawman arguments, so I
    am asking.... specifically.... what aspects of the current state of AI
    do not qualify as "real"?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Rin Stowleigh on Sat Jun 15 19:25:00 2024
    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:09:38 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 19:42:32 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/14/2024 7:02 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:08:09 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>
    On 6/12/2024 7:21 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

    Real AI (not what most gamers have historically called AI) integrated >>>>>>> into dialog / behavior / relationships with other civilizations is >>>>>>> where the franchise should go next. It's a mistake if that's not done >>>>>>> in Civ 7. And if it's not done, it's only a matter of time before a >>>>>>> competitor gets there first.

    so far there is no real AI. Just stuff they hype up as AI.

    Look up YT vids for a game called BodyCam. It introduces a level of >>>>> immersive visual realism to the tactical shooter genre that to my
    knowledge hasn't been done before, and it supposed came to market via >>>>> a couple of kids (well a 17 year old and a 20 year old).

    Someone will do something equally as disruptive to the strategy genre >>>>> utilizing real AI soon, and if the Civ series is caught sleeping, it >>>>> will become irrelevant overnight.

    There still is no real AI

    Years ago, I realized the juice simply was not worth the squeeze
    whenever I allowed myself to get baited into pendantic black holes of
    opinion-presented-as-fact-discussion.

    But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul to treat myself to
    an occasional token episode of frivolous time wasting activity? ;)

    So I'm curious what aspect of the current state of what is
    colloquially referred to as AI fails to meet your personal definition
    of "real"?

    when it actually manages to fit the definition of an AI, and not one >>written by the people that are just trying to sell you their next >>hypecycle.

    To be clear, I'm completely uninterested in strawman arguments, so I
    am asking.... specifically.... what aspects of the current state of AI
    do not qualify as "real"?

    is it intelligence?

    is it actually intelligence, or is it someone hyping up an advanced
    algorithm into something it isn't?

    the problem is of course that intelligence itself is not that well
    defined, and that this helps the usual scammers to claim that something
    is artificial "intelligence" when it's merely an advanced mechanism.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rin Stowleigh@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Jun 15 18:00:14 2024
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 19:25:00 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:09:38 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 19:42:32 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>
    On 6/14/2024 7:02 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:08:09 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 6/12/2024 7:21 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

    Real AI (not what most gamers have historically called AI) integrated >>>>>>>> into dialog / behavior / relationships with other civilizations is >>>>>>>> where the franchise should go next. It's a mistake if that's not done >>>>>>>> in Civ 7. And if it's not done, it's only a matter of time before a >>>>>>>> competitor gets there first.

    so far there is no real AI. Just stuff they hype up as AI.

    Look up YT vids for a game called BodyCam. It introduces a level of >>>>>> immersive visual realism to the tactical shooter genre that to my
    knowledge hasn't been done before, and it supposed came to market via >>>>>> a couple of kids (well a 17 year old and a 20 year old).

    Someone will do something equally as disruptive to the strategy genre >>>>>> utilizing real AI soon, and if the Civ series is caught sleeping, it >>>>>> will become irrelevant overnight.

    There still is no real AI

    Years ago, I realized the juice simply was not worth the squeeze
    whenever I allowed myself to get baited into pendantic black holes of
    opinion-presented-as-fact-discussion.

    But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul to treat myself to
    an occasional token episode of frivolous time wasting activity? ;)

    So I'm curious what aspect of the current state of what is
    colloquially referred to as AI fails to meet your personal definition
    of "real"?

    when it actually manages to fit the definition of an AI, and not one >>>written by the people that are just trying to sell you their next >>>hypecycle.

    To be clear, I'm completely uninterested in strawman arguments, so I
    am asking.... specifically.... what aspects of the current state of AI
    do not qualify as "real"?

    is it intelligence?

    is it actually intelligence, or is it someone hyping up an advanced
    algorithm into something it isn't?

    the problem is of course that intelligence itself is not that well
    defined, and that this helps the usual scammers to claim that something
    is artificial "intelligence" when it's merely an advanced mechanism.

    I don't understand why you're separating the word intelligence from
    artificial.

    Artificial means fake. Fake Intelligence. So you're asking for
    something that's Real and Fake at the same time if I understand
    correctly?

    Real intelligence is playing a multiplayer game against a human.

    Computers are not capable of real intelligence, only the artificial
    variety.

    "Real Fakel Intelligence" is an oxymoron; thus the quest for it is a self-defeating situation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rin Stowleigh@21:1/5 to Kyonshi on Sat Jun 15 20:11:55 2024
    On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 00:38:54 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/16/2024 12:00 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 19:25:00 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:09:38 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 19:42:32 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 6/14/2024 7:02 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:08:09 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>
    On 6/12/2024 7:21 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

    Real AI (not what most gamers have historically called AI) integrated
    into dialog / behavior / relationships with other civilizations is >>>>>>>>>> where the franchise should go next. It's a mistake if that's not done
    in Civ 7. And if it's not done, it's only a matter of time before a >>>>>>>>>> competitor gets there first.

    so far there is no real AI. Just stuff they hype up as AI.

    Look up YT vids for a game called BodyCam. It introduces a level of >>>>>>>> immersive visual realism to the tactical shooter genre that to my >>>>>>>> knowledge hasn't been done before, and it supposed came to market via >>>>>>>> a couple of kids (well a 17 year old and a 20 year old).

    Someone will do something equally as disruptive to the strategy genre >>>>>>>> utilizing real AI soon, and if the Civ series is caught sleeping, it >>>>>>>> will become irrelevant overnight.

    There still is no real AI

    Years ago, I realized the juice simply was not worth the squeeze
    whenever I allowed myself to get baited into pendantic black holes of >>>>>> opinion-presented-as-fact-discussion.

    But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul to treat myself to >>>>>> an occasional token episode of frivolous time wasting activity? ;) >>>>>>
    So I'm curious what aspect of the current state of what is
    colloquially referred to as AI fails to meet your personal definition >>>>>> of "real"?

    when it actually manages to fit the definition of an AI, and not one >>>>> written by the people that are just trying to sell you their next
    hypecycle.

    To be clear, I'm completely uninterested in strawman arguments, so I
    am asking.... specifically.... what aspects of the current state of AI >>>> do not qualify as "real"?

    is it intelligence?

    is it actually intelligence, or is it someone hyping up an advanced
    algorithm into something it isn't?

    the problem is of course that intelligence itself is not that well
    defined, and that this helps the usual scammers to claim that something
    is artificial "intelligence" when it's merely an advanced mechanism.

    I don't understand why you're separating the word intelligence from
    artificial.

    Artificial means fake. Fake Intelligence. So you're asking for
    something that's Real and Fake at the same time if I understand
    correctly?

    Real intelligence is playing a multiplayer game against a human.

    Computers are not capable of real intelligence, only the artificial
    variety.

    "Real Fakel Intelligence" is an oxymoron; thus the quest for it is a
    self-defeating situation.

    no, artificial means "made by humans"
    is a building not a structure because it's artificial?

    Where did you find a building not made by humans?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rin Stowleigh@21:1/5 to Kyonshi on Sun Jun 16 10:39:05 2024
    On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 15:21:52 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/16/2024 2:11 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 00:38:54 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/16/2024 12:00 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 19:25:00 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:09:38 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 19:42:32 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>
    On 6/14/2024 7:02 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:08:09 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/12/2024 7:21 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

    Real AI (not what most gamers have historically called AI) integrated
    into dialog / behavior / relationships with other civilizations is >>>>>>>>>>>> where the franchise should go next. It's a mistake if that's not done
    in Civ 7. And if it's not done, it's only a matter of time before a
    competitor gets there first.

    so far there is no real AI. Just stuff they hype up as AI. >>>>>>>>>>
    Look up YT vids for a game called BodyCam. It introduces a level of >>>>>>>>>> immersive visual realism to the tactical shooter genre that to my >>>>>>>>>> knowledge hasn't been done before, and it supposed came to market via
    a couple of kids (well a 17 year old and a 20 year old).

    Someone will do something equally as disruptive to the strategy genre
    utilizing real AI soon, and if the Civ series is caught sleeping, it >>>>>>>>>> will become irrelevant overnight.

    There still is no real AI

    Years ago, I realized the juice simply was not worth the squeeze >>>>>>>> whenever I allowed myself to get baited into pendantic black holes of >>>>>>>> opinion-presented-as-fact-discussion.

    But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul to treat myself to >>>>>>>> an occasional token episode of frivolous time wasting activity? ;) >>>>>>>>
    So I'm curious what aspect of the current state of what is
    colloquially referred to as AI fails to meet your personal definition >>>>>>>> of "real"?

    when it actually manages to fit the definition of an AI, and not one >>>>>>> written by the people that are just trying to sell you their next >>>>>>> hypecycle.

    To be clear, I'm completely uninterested in strawman arguments, so I >>>>>> am asking.... specifically.... what aspects of the current state of AI >>>>>> do not qualify as "real"?

    is it intelligence?

    is it actually intelligence, or is it someone hyping up an advanced
    algorithm into something it isn't?

    the problem is of course that intelligence itself is not that well
    defined, and that this helps the usual scammers to claim that something >>>>> is artificial "intelligence" when it's merely an advanced mechanism.

    I don't understand why you're separating the word intelligence from
    artificial.

    Artificial means fake. Fake Intelligence. So you're asking for
    something that's Real and Fake at the same time if I understand
    correctly?

    Real intelligence is playing a multiplayer game against a human.

    Computers are not capable of real intelligence, only the artificial
    variety.

    "Real Fakel Intelligence" is an oxymoron; thus the quest for it is a
    self-defeating situation.

    no, artificial means "made by humans"
    is a building not a structure because it's artificial?

    Where did you find a building not made by humans?

    caves exist, are a structure, and have been used by humans.

    Answers to questions I never asked is a prime example of why I stopped
    wasting time on discussions like this, given the current state of
    Usenet.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rin Stowleigh@21:1/5 to Kyonshi on Mon Jun 17 10:39:35 2024
    On Mon, 17 Jun 2024 15:08:33 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/16/2024 4:39 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 15:21:52 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/16/2024 2:11 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 00:38:54 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>
    On 6/16/2024 12:00 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 19:25:00 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:09:38 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 19:42:32 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/14/2024 7:02 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:08:09 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/12/2024 7:21 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

    Real AI (not what most gamers have historically called AI) integrated
    into dialog / behavior / relationships with other civilizations is
    where the franchise should go next. It's a mistake if that's not done
    in Civ 7. And if it's not done, it's only a matter of time before a
    competitor gets there first.

    so far there is no real AI. Just stuff they hype up as AI. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    Look up YT vids for a game called BodyCam. It introduces a level of
    immersive visual realism to the tactical shooter genre that to my >>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge hasn't been done before, and it supposed came to market via
    a couple of kids (well a 17 year old and a 20 year old). >>>>>>>>>>>>
    Someone will do something equally as disruptive to the strategy genre
    utilizing real AI soon, and if the Civ series is caught sleeping, it
    will become irrelevant overnight.

    There still is no real AI

    Years ago, I realized the juice simply was not worth the squeeze >>>>>>>>>> whenever I allowed myself to get baited into pendantic black holes of
    opinion-presented-as-fact-discussion.

    But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul to treat myself to >>>>>>>>>> an occasional token episode of frivolous time wasting activity? ;) >>>>>>>>>>
    So I'm curious what aspect of the current state of what is >>>>>>>>>> colloquially referred to as AI fails to meet your personal definition
    of "real"?

    when it actually manages to fit the definition of an AI, and not one >>>>>>>>> written by the people that are just trying to sell you their next >>>>>>>>> hypecycle.

    To be clear, I'm completely uninterested in strawman arguments, so I >>>>>>>> am asking.... specifically.... what aspects of the current state of AI >>>>>>>> do not qualify as "real"?

    is it intelligence?

    is it actually intelligence, or is it someone hyping up an advanced >>>>>>> algorithm into something it isn't?

    the problem is of course that intelligence itself is not that well >>>>>>> defined, and that this helps the usual scammers to claim that something >>>>>>> is artificial "intelligence" when it's merely an advanced mechanism. >>>>>>
    I don't understand why you're separating the word intelligence from >>>>>> artificial.

    Artificial means fake. Fake Intelligence. So you're asking for
    something that's Real and Fake at the same time if I understand
    correctly?

    Real intelligence is playing a multiplayer game against a human.

    Computers are not capable of real intelligence, only the artificial >>>>>> variety.

    "Real Fakel Intelligence" is an oxymoron; thus the quest for it is a >>>>>> self-defeating situation.

    no, artificial means "made by humans"
    is a building not a structure because it's artificial?

    Where did you find a building not made by humans?

    caves exist, are a structure, and have been used by humans.

    Answers to questions I never asked is a prime example of why I stopped
    wasting time on discussions like this, given the current state of
    Usenet.

    I dunno, you throw out stuff like "artificial means fake" and expect me
    to accept that drivel without saying anything?

    as I said higher up "But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul
    to treat myself to an occasional token episode of frivolous time
    wasting activity?"

    So believe me when I say I expected absolutely nothing from you, and
    was not disappointed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rin Stowleigh@21:1/5 to Kyonshi on Tue Jun 18 07:40:52 2024
    On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 09:21:33 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/17/2024 4:39 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Mon, 17 Jun 2024 15:08:33 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/16/2024 4:39 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 15:21:52 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>
    On 6/16/2024 2:11 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 00:38:54 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 6/16/2024 12:00 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 19:25:00 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:09:38 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 19:42:32 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/14/2024 7:02 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:08:09 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/12/2024 7:21 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

    Real AI (not what most gamers have historically called AI) integrated
    into dialog / behavior / relationships with other civilizations is
    where the franchise should go next. It's a mistake if that's not done
    in Civ 7. And if it's not done, it's only a matter of time before a
    competitor gets there first.

    so far there is no real AI. Just stuff they hype up as AI. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Look up YT vids for a game called BodyCam. It introduces a level of
    immersive visual realism to the tactical shooter genre that to my
    knowledge hasn't been done before, and it supposed came to market via
    a couple of kids (well a 17 year old and a 20 year old). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Someone will do something equally as disruptive to the strategy genre
    utilizing real AI soon, and if the Civ series is caught sleeping, it
    will become irrelevant overnight.

    There still is no real AI

    Years ago, I realized the juice simply was not worth the squeeze >>>>>>>>>>>> whenever I allowed myself to get baited into pendantic black holes of
    opinion-presented-as-fact-discussion.

    But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul to treat myself to
    an occasional token episode of frivolous time wasting activity? ;)

    So I'm curious what aspect of the current state of what is >>>>>>>>>>>> colloquially referred to as AI fails to meet your personal definition
    of "real"?

    when it actually manages to fit the definition of an AI, and not one
    written by the people that are just trying to sell you their next >>>>>>>>>>> hypecycle.

    To be clear, I'm completely uninterested in strawman arguments, so I >>>>>>>>>> am asking.... specifically.... what aspects of the current state of AI
    do not qualify as "real"?

    is it intelligence?

    is it actually intelligence, or is it someone hyping up an advanced >>>>>>>>> algorithm into something it isn't?

    the problem is of course that intelligence itself is not that well >>>>>>>>> defined, and that this helps the usual scammers to claim that something
    is artificial "intelligence" when it's merely an advanced mechanism. >>>>>>>>
    I don't understand why you're separating the word intelligence from >>>>>>>> artificial.

    Artificial means fake. Fake Intelligence. So you're asking for >>>>>>>> something that's Real and Fake at the same time if I understand >>>>>>>> correctly?

    Real intelligence is playing a multiplayer game against a human. >>>>>>>>
    Computers are not capable of real intelligence, only the artificial >>>>>>>> variety.

    "Real Fakel Intelligence" is an oxymoron; thus the quest for it is a >>>>>>>> self-defeating situation.

    no, artificial means "made by humans"
    is a building not a structure because it's artificial?

    Where did you find a building not made by humans?

    caves exist, are a structure, and have been used by humans.

    Answers to questions I never asked is a prime example of why I stopped >>>> wasting time on discussions like this, given the current state of
    Usenet.

    I dunno, you throw out stuff like "artificial means fake" and expect me
    to accept that drivel without saying anything?

    as I said higher up "But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul
    to treat myself to an occasional token episode of frivolous time
    wasting activity?"

    So believe me when I say I expected absolutely nothing from you, and
    was not disappointed.

    ah, so I just fell for a troll?
    true, noone would have earnestly advocated for AI in that way. Should
    have known.

    You disqualified yourself from the level of discussion I was initially
    offering the moment you revealed that you believed the word
    'artificial' could not be synonymous with 'fake'.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/artificial

    Synonyms
    --------------
    affected
    assumed
    bogus
    contrived
    factitious
    fake
    false
    feigned
    forced
    mechanical
    mock
    phony
    phoney
    plastic
    pretended
    pseudo
    put-on
    sham
    simulated
    spurious
    strained
    unnatural

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Rin Stowleigh on Tue Jun 18 16:35:42 2024
    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 09:21:33 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/17/2024 4:39 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Mon, 17 Jun 2024 15:08:33 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/16/2024 4:39 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 15:21:52 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>
    On 6/16/2024 2:11 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 00:38:54 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>
    On 6/16/2024 12:00 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 19:25:00 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:09:38 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 19:42:32 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/14/2024 7:02 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:08:09 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/12/2024 7:21 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

    Real AI (not what most gamers have historically called AI) integrated
    into dialog / behavior / relationships with other civilizations is
    where the franchise should go next. It's a mistake if that's not done
    in Civ 7. And if it's not done, it's only a matter of time before a
    competitor gets there first.

    so far there is no real AI. Just stuff they hype up as AI. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Look up YT vids for a game called BodyCam. It introduces a level of
    immersive visual realism to the tactical shooter genre that to my
    knowledge hasn't been done before, and it supposed came to market via
    a couple of kids (well a 17 year old and a 20 year old). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Someone will do something equally as disruptive to the strategy genre
    utilizing real AI soon, and if the Civ series is caught sleeping, it
    will become irrelevant overnight.

    There still is no real AI

    Years ago, I realized the juice simply was not worth the squeeze >>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever I allowed myself to get baited into pendantic black holes of
    opinion-presented-as-fact-discussion.

    But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul to treat myself to
    an occasional token episode of frivolous time wasting activity? ;)

    So I'm curious what aspect of the current state of what is >>>>>>>>>>>>> colloquially referred to as AI fails to meet your personal definition
    of "real"?

    when it actually manages to fit the definition of an AI, and not one
    written by the people that are just trying to sell you their next >>>>>>>>>>>> hypecycle.

    To be clear, I'm completely uninterested in strawman arguments, so I
    am asking.... specifically.... what aspects of the current state of AI
    do not qualify as "real"?

    is it intelligence?

    is it actually intelligence, or is it someone hyping up an advanced >>>>>>>>>> algorithm into something it isn't?

    the problem is of course that intelligence itself is not that well >>>>>>>>>> defined, and that this helps the usual scammers to claim that something
    is artificial "intelligence" when it's merely an advanced mechanism. >>>>>>>>>
    I don't understand why you're separating the word intelligence from >>>>>>>>> artificial.

    Artificial means fake. Fake Intelligence. So you're asking for >>>>>>>>> something that's Real and Fake at the same time if I understand >>>>>>>>> correctly?

    Real intelligence is playing a multiplayer game against a human. >>>>>>>>>
    Computers are not capable of real intelligence, only the artificial >>>>>>>>> variety.

    "Real Fakel Intelligence" is an oxymoron; thus the quest for it is a >>>>>>>>> self-defeating situation.

    no, artificial means "made by humans"
    is a building not a structure because it's artificial?

    Where did you find a building not made by humans?

    caves exist, are a structure, and have been used by humans.

    Answers to questions I never asked is a prime example of why I stopped >>>>> wasting time on discussions like this, given the current state of
    Usenet.

    I dunno, you throw out stuff like "artificial means fake" and expect me >>>> to accept that drivel without saying anything?

    as I said higher up "But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul
    to treat myself to an occasional token episode of frivolous time
    wasting activity?"

    So believe me when I say I expected absolutely nothing from you, and
    was not disappointed.

    ah, so I just fell for a troll?
    true, noone would have earnestly advocated for AI in that way. Should
    have known.

    You disqualified yourself from the level of discussion I was initially offering the moment you revealed that you believed the word
    'artificial' could not be synonymous with 'fake'.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/artificial

    Synonyms
    --------------
    affected
    assumed
    bogus
    contrived
    factitious
    fake
    false
    feigned
    forced
    mechanical
    mock
    phony
    phoney
    plastic
    pretended
    pseudo
    put-on
    sham
    simulated
    spurious
    strained
    unnatural

    did I say that?
    maybe reread my comment. But then you are ignoring your own source here
    as well, because it also can mean unnatural, simulated, or mechanical.

    But well, I know you are just pretending to argue right now. So we can
    just agree that you got me good and you don't have to pretend to make
    these stupid claims anymore.

    So we both agree that no actual artificial intelligence exists, and we
    are only talking about advanced algorithms, yes?

    Then we basically can stop talking here.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rin Stowleigh@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jun 18 19:32:14 2024
    On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 16:35:42 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 09:21:33 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/17/2024 4:39 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Mon, 17 Jun 2024 15:08:33 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>
    On 6/16/2024 4:39 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 15:21:52 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 6/16/2024 2:11 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 00:38:54 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>
    On 6/16/2024 12:00 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 19:25:00 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:09:38 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 19:42:32 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/14/2024 7:02 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:08:09 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/12/2024 7:21 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:

    Real AI (not what most gamers have historically called AI) integrated
    into dialog / behavior / relationships with other civilizations is
    where the franchise should go next. It's a mistake if that's not done
    in Civ 7. And if it's not done, it's only a matter of time before a
    competitor gets there first.

    so far there is no real AI. Just stuff they hype up as AI. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Look up YT vids for a game called BodyCam. It introduces a level of
    immersive visual realism to the tactical shooter genre that to my
    knowledge hasn't been done before, and it supposed came to market via
    a couple of kids (well a 17 year old and a 20 year old). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Someone will do something equally as disruptive to the strategy genre
    utilizing real AI soon, and if the Civ series is caught sleeping, it
    will become irrelevant overnight.

    There still is no real AI

    Years ago, I realized the juice simply was not worth the squeeze >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever I allowed myself to get baited into pendantic black holes of
    opinion-presented-as-fact-discussion.

    But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul to treat myself to
    an occasional token episode of frivolous time wasting activity? ;)

    So I'm curious what aspect of the current state of what is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> colloquially referred to as AI fails to meet your personal definition
    of "real"?

    when it actually manages to fit the definition of an AI, and not one
    written by the people that are just trying to sell you their next >>>>>>>>>>>>> hypecycle.

    To be clear, I'm completely uninterested in strawman arguments, so I
    am asking.... specifically.... what aspects of the current state of AI
    do not qualify as "real"?

    is it intelligence?

    is it actually intelligence, or is it someone hyping up an advanced >>>>>>>>>>> algorithm into something it isn't?

    the problem is of course that intelligence itself is not that well >>>>>>>>>>> defined, and that this helps the usual scammers to claim that something
    is artificial "intelligence" when it's merely an advanced mechanism.

    I don't understand why you're separating the word intelligence from >>>>>>>>>> artificial.

    Artificial means fake. Fake Intelligence. So you're asking for >>>>>>>>>> something that's Real and Fake at the same time if I understand >>>>>>>>>> correctly?

    Real intelligence is playing a multiplayer game against a human. >>>>>>>>>>
    Computers are not capable of real intelligence, only the artificial >>>>>>>>>> variety.

    "Real Fakel Intelligence" is an oxymoron; thus the quest for it is a >>>>>>>>>> self-defeating situation.

    no, artificial means "made by humans"
    is a building not a structure because it's artificial?

    Where did you find a building not made by humans?

    caves exist, are a structure, and have been used by humans.

    Answers to questions I never asked is a prime example of why I stopped >>>>>> wasting time on discussions like this, given the current state of
    Usenet.

    I dunno, you throw out stuff like "artificial means fake" and expect me >>>>> to accept that drivel without saying anything?

    as I said higher up "But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul >>>> to treat myself to an occasional token episode of frivolous time
    wasting activity?"

    So believe me when I say I expected absolutely nothing from you, and
    was not disappointed.

    ah, so I just fell for a troll?
    true, noone would have earnestly advocated for AI in that way. Should >>>have known.

    You disqualified yourself from the level of discussion I was initially
    offering the moment you revealed that you believed the word
    'artificial' could not be synonymous with 'fake'.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/artificial

    Synonyms
    --------------
    affected
    assumed
    bogus
    contrived
    factitious
    fake
    false
    feigned
    forced
    mechanical
    mock
    phony
    phoney
    plastic
    pretended
    pseudo
    put-on
    sham
    simulated
    spurious
    strained
    unnatural

    did I say that?
    maybe reread my comment. But then you are ignoring your own source here
    as well, because it also can mean unnatural, simulated, or mechanical.

    But well, I know you are just pretending to argue right now. So we can
    just agree that you got me good and you don't have to pretend to make
    these stupid claims anymore.

    So we both agree that no actual artificial intelligence exists, and we
    are only talking about advanced algorithms, yes?

    Then we basically can stop talking here.

    Your basic premise is that your own personal definition of AI, which
    is different than that of the rest of the world, is correct. And as
    long as you continue searching for someone that agrees with your
    definition instead of the mainstream one, I suppose you can turn
    grasping onto hope into a hobby if you like.

    But it won't change reality.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rin Stowleigh@21:1/5 to Kyonshi on Wed Jun 19 07:37:01 2024
    On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 08:07:29 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/19/2024 1:32 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 16:35:42 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 09:21:33 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>
    On 6/17/2024 4:39 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Mon, 17 Jun 2024 15:08:33 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 6/16/2024 4:39 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 15:21:52 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>
    On 6/16/2024 2:11 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 00:38:54 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/16/2024 12:00 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 19:25:00 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:09:38 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 19:42:32 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/14/2024 7:02 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:08:09 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/12/2024 7:21 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Real AI (not what most gamers have historically called AI) integrated
    into dialog / behavior / relationships with other civilizations is
    where the franchise should go next. It's a mistake if that's not done
    in Civ 7. And if it's not done, it's only a matter of time before a
    competitor gets there first.

    so far there is no real AI. Just stuff they hype up as AI. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Look up YT vids for a game called BodyCam. It introduces a level of
    immersive visual realism to the tactical shooter genre that to my
    knowledge hasn't been done before, and it supposed came to market via
    a couple of kids (well a 17 year old and a 20 year old). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Someone will do something equally as disruptive to the strategy genre
    utilizing real AI soon, and if the Civ series is caught sleeping, it
    will become irrelevant overnight.

    There still is no real AI

    Years ago, I realized the juice simply was not worth the squeeze
    whenever I allowed myself to get baited into pendantic black holes of
    opinion-presented-as-fact-discussion.

    But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul to treat myself to
    an occasional token episode of frivolous time wasting activity? ;)

    So I'm curious what aspect of the current state of what is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> colloquially referred to as AI fails to meet your personal definition
    of "real"?

    when it actually manages to fit the definition of an AI, and not one
    written by the people that are just trying to sell you their next
    hypecycle.

    To be clear, I'm completely uninterested in strawman arguments, so I
    am asking.... specifically.... what aspects of the current state of AI
    do not qualify as "real"?

    is it intelligence?

    is it actually intelligence, or is it someone hyping up an advanced
    algorithm into something it isn't?

    the problem is of course that intelligence itself is not that well
    defined, and that this helps the usual scammers to claim that something
    is artificial "intelligence" when it's merely an advanced mechanism.

    I don't understand why you're separating the word intelligence from
    artificial.

    Artificial means fake. Fake Intelligence. So you're asking for >>>>>>>>>>>> something that's Real and Fake at the same time if I understand >>>>>>>>>>>> correctly?

    Real intelligence is playing a multiplayer game against a human. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    Computers are not capable of real intelligence, only the artificial
    variety.

    "Real Fakel Intelligence" is an oxymoron; thus the quest for it is a
    self-defeating situation.

    no, artificial means "made by humans"
    is a building not a structure because it's artificial?

    Where did you find a building not made by humans?

    caves exist, are a structure, and have been used by humans.

    Answers to questions I never asked is a prime example of why I stopped >>>>>>>> wasting time on discussions like this, given the current state of >>>>>>>> Usenet.

    I dunno, you throw out stuff like "artificial means fake" and expect me >>>>>>> to accept that drivel without saying anything?

    as I said higher up "But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul >>>>>> to treat myself to an occasional token episode of frivolous time
    wasting activity?"

    So believe me when I say I expected absolutely nothing from you, and >>>>>> was not disappointed.

    ah, so I just fell for a troll?
    true, noone would have earnestly advocated for AI in that way. Should >>>>> have known.

    You disqualified yourself from the level of discussion I was initially >>>> offering the moment you revealed that you believed the word
    'artificial' could not be synonymous with 'fake'.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/artificial

    Synonyms
    --------------
    affected
    assumed
    bogus
    contrived
    factitious
    fake
    false
    feigned
    forced
    mechanical
    mock
    phony
    phoney
    plastic
    pretended
    pseudo
    put-on
    sham
    simulated
    spurious
    strained
    unnatural

    did I say that?
    maybe reread my comment. But then you are ignoring your own source here
    as well, because it also can mean unnatural, simulated, or mechanical.

    But well, I know you are just pretending to argue right now. So we can
    just agree that you got me good and you don't have to pretend to make
    these stupid claims anymore.

    So we both agree that no actual artificial intelligence exists, and we
    are only talking about advanced algorithms, yes?

    Then we basically can stop talking here.

    Your basic premise is that your own personal definition of AI, which
    is different than that of the rest of the world, is correct. And as
    long as you continue searching for someone that agrees with your
    definition instead of the mainstream one, I suppose you can turn
    grasping onto hope into a hobby if you like.

    But it won't change reality.


    Luckily I found you already, so there's that. We already established
    that you do agree with me about the general definition of AI.

    If that's true, then congratulations on adjusting your perceptions and
    glad I could help.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rin Stowleigh@21:1/5 to Kyonshi on Wed Jun 19 19:00:11 2024
    On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 15:08:18 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/19/2024 1:37 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 08:07:29 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/19/2024 1:32 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 16:35:42 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 09:21:33 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 6/17/2024 4:39 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Mon, 17 Jun 2024 15:08:33 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>
    On 6/16/2024 4:39 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 15:21:52 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/16/2024 2:11 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 00:38:54 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/16/2024 12:00 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 19:25:00 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:09:38 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 19:42:32 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/14/2024 7:02 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:08:09 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/12/2024 7:21 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Real AI (not what most gamers have historically called AI) integrated
    into dialog / behavior / relationships with other civilizations is
    where the franchise should go next. It's a mistake if that's not done
    in Civ 7. And if it's not done, it's only a matter of time before a
    competitor gets there first.

    so far there is no real AI. Just stuff they hype up as AI.

    Look up YT vids for a game called BodyCam. It introduces a level of
    immersive visual realism to the tactical shooter genre that to my
    knowledge hasn't been done before, and it supposed came to market via
    a couple of kids (well a 17 year old and a 20 year old). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Someone will do something equally as disruptive to the strategy genre
    utilizing real AI soon, and if the Civ series is caught sleeping, it
    will become irrelevant overnight.

    There still is no real AI

    Years ago, I realized the juice simply was not worth the squeeze
    whenever I allowed myself to get baited into pendantic black holes of
    opinion-presented-as-fact-discussion.

    But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul to treat myself to
    an occasional token episode of frivolous time wasting activity? ;)

    So I'm curious what aspect of the current state of what is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> colloquially referred to as AI fails to meet your personal definition
    of "real"?

    when it actually manages to fit the definition of an AI, and not one
    written by the people that are just trying to sell you their next
    hypecycle.

    To be clear, I'm completely uninterested in strawman arguments, so I
    am asking.... specifically.... what aspects of the current state of AI
    do not qualify as "real"?

    is it intelligence?

    is it actually intelligence, or is it someone hyping up an advanced
    algorithm into something it isn't?

    the problem is of course that intelligence itself is not that well
    defined, and that this helps the usual scammers to claim that something
    is artificial "intelligence" when it's merely an advanced mechanism.

    I don't understand why you're separating the word intelligence from
    artificial.

    Artificial means fake. Fake Intelligence. So you're asking for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> something that's Real and Fake at the same time if I understand >>>>>>>>>>>>>> correctly?

    Real intelligence is playing a multiplayer game against a human. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Computers are not capable of real intelligence, only the artificial
    variety.

    "Real Fakel Intelligence" is an oxymoron; thus the quest for it is a
    self-defeating situation.

    no, artificial means "made by humans"
    is a building not a structure because it's artificial? >>>>>>>>>>>>
    Where did you find a building not made by humans?

    caves exist, are a structure, and have been used by humans. >>>>>>>>>>
    Answers to questions I never asked is a prime example of why I stopped
    wasting time on discussions like this, given the current state of >>>>>>>>>> Usenet.

    I dunno, you throw out stuff like "artificial means fake" and expect me
    to accept that drivel without saying anything?

    as I said higher up "But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul >>>>>>>> to treat myself to an occasional token episode of frivolous time >>>>>>>> wasting activity?"

    So believe me when I say I expected absolutely nothing from you, and >>>>>>>> was not disappointed.

    ah, so I just fell for a troll?
    true, noone would have earnestly advocated for AI in that way. Should >>>>>>> have known.

    You disqualified yourself from the level of discussion I was initially >>>>>> offering the moment you revealed that you believed the word
    'artificial' could not be synonymous with 'fake'.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/artificial

    Synonyms
    --------------
    affected
    assumed
    bogus
    contrived
    factitious
    fake
    false
    feigned
    forced
    mechanical
    mock
    phony
    phoney
    plastic
    pretended
    pseudo
    put-on
    sham
    simulated
    spurious
    strained
    unnatural

    did I say that?
    maybe reread my comment. But then you are ignoring your own source here >>>>> as well, because it also can mean unnatural, simulated, or mechanical. >>>>>
    But well, I know you are just pretending to argue right now. So we can >>>>> just agree that you got me good and you don't have to pretend to make >>>>> these stupid claims anymore.

    So we both agree that no actual artificial intelligence exists, and we >>>>> are only talking about advanced algorithms, yes?

    Then we basically can stop talking here.

    Your basic premise is that your own personal definition of AI, which
    is different than that of the rest of the world, is correct. And as
    long as you continue searching for someone that agrees with your
    definition instead of the mainstream one, I suppose you can turn
    grasping onto hope into a hobby if you like.

    But it won't change reality.


    Luckily I found you already, so there's that. We already established
    that you do agree with me about the general definition of AI.

    If that's true, then congratulations on adjusting your perceptions and
    glad I could help.

    Yes, we both agree that no actual AI exists

    Oh, disregard... I see that you're actually a delusional cunt.
    Conversation over.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Samuel_S=C3=B6derberg?=@21:1/5 to Kyonshi on Tue Jul 16 20:55:26 2024
    On 6/20/24 09:35, Kyonshi wrote:
    On 6/20/2024 1:00 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 15:08:18 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/19/2024 1:37 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 08:07:29 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>
    On 6/19/2024 1:32 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 16:35:42 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote:
    On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 09:21:33 +0200, Kyonshi <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    On 6/17/2024 4:39 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Mon, 17 Jun 2024 15:08:33 +0200, Kyonshi
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/16/2024 4:39 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 15:21:52 +0200, Kyonshi
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/16/2024 2:11 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Jun 2024 00:38:54 +0200, Kyonshi
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/16/2024 12:00 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
    On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 19:25:00 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:09:38 -0000 (UTC),
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    Rin Stowleigh <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 19:42:32 +0200, Kyonshi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/14/2024 7:02 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:08:09 +0200, Kyonshi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 6/12/2024 7:21 PM, Rin Stowleigh wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Real AI (not what most gamers have historically >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called AI) integrated
    into dialog / behavior / relationships with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other civilizations is
    where the franchise should go next.  It's a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mistake if that's not done
    in Civ 7.  And if it's not done, it's only a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter of time before a
    competitor gets there first.

    so far there is no real AI. Just stuff they hype >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up as AI.

    Look up YT vids for a game called BodyCam.  It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> introduces a level of
    immersive visual realism to the tactical shooter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genre that to my
    knowledge hasn't been done before, and it supposed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> came to market via
    a couple of kids (well a 17 year old and a 20 year >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> old).

    Someone will do something equally as disruptive to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the strategy genre
    utilizing real AI soon, and if the Civ series is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> caught sleeping, it
    will become irrelevant overnight.

    There still is no real AI

    Years ago, I realized the juice simply was not worth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the squeeze
    whenever I allowed myself to get baited into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pendantic black holes of
    opinion-presented-as-fact-discussion.

    But occasionally, it's probably good for the soul to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treat myself to
    an occasional token episode of frivolous time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasting activity?  ;)

    So I'm curious what aspect of the current state of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what is
    colloquially referred to as AI fails to meet your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personal definition
    of "real"?

    when it actually manages to fit the definition of an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AI, and not one
    written by the people that are just trying to sell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you their next
    hypecycle.

    To be clear, I'm completely uninterested in strawman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arguments, so I
    am asking.... specifically.... what aspects of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current state of AI
    do not qualify as "real"?

    is it intelligence?

    is it actually intelligence, or is it someone hyping up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an advanced
    algorithm into something it isn't?

    the problem is of course that intelligence itself is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not that well
    defined, and that this helps the usual scammers to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claim that something
    is artificial "intelligence" when it's merely an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced mechanism.

    I don't understand why you're separating the word >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intelligence from
    artificial.

    Artificial means fake.  Fake Intelligence.  So you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asking for
    something that's Real and Fake at the same time if I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand
    correctly?

    Real intelligence is playing a multiplayer game against >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a human.

    Computers are not capable of real intelligence, only the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> artificial
    variety.

    "Real Fakel Intelligence" is an oxymoron; thus the quest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for it is a
    self-defeating situation.

    no, artificial means "made by humans"
    is a building not a structure because it's artificial? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Where did you find a building not made by humans?

    caves exist, are a structure, and have been used by humans. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    Answers to questions I never asked is a prime example of why >>>>>>>>>>>> I stopped
    wasting time on discussions like this, given the current >>>>>>>>>>>> state of
    Usenet.

    I dunno, you throw out stuff like "artificial means fake" and >>>>>>>>>>> expect me
    to accept that drivel without saying anything?

    as I said higher up "But occasionally, it's probably good for >>>>>>>>>> the soul
    to treat myself to an occasional token episode of frivolous time >>>>>>>>>> wasting activity?"

    So believe me when I say I expected absolutely nothing from >>>>>>>>>> you, and
    was not disappointed.

    ah, so I just fell for a troll?
    true, noone would have earnestly advocated for AI in that way. >>>>>>>>> Should
    have known.

    You disqualified yourself from the level of discussion I was
    initially
    offering the moment you revealed that you believed the word
    'artificial' could not be synonymous with 'fake'.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/artificial

    Synonyms
    --------------
    affected
    assumed
    bogus
    contrived
    factitious
    fake
    false
    feigned
    forced
    mechanical
    mock
    phony
    phoney
    plastic
    pretended
    pseudo
    put-on
    sham
    simulated
    spurious
    strained
    unnatural

    did I say that?
    maybe reread my comment. But then you are ignoring your own
    source here
    as well, because it also can mean unnatural, simulated, or
    mechanical.

    But well, I know you are just pretending to argue right now. So
    we can
    just agree that you got me good and you don't have to pretend to >>>>>>> make
    these stupid claims anymore.

    So we both agree that no actual artificial intelligence exists,
    and we
    are only talking about advanced algorithms, yes?

    Then we basically can stop talking here.

    Your basic premise is that your own personal definition of AI, which >>>>>> is different than that of the rest of the world, is correct.  And as >>>>>> long as you continue searching for someone that agrees with your
    definition instead of the mainstream one, I suppose you can turn
    grasping onto hope into a hobby if you like.

    But it won't change reality.


    Luckily I found you already, so there's that. We already established >>>>> that you do agree with me about the general definition of AI.

    If that's true, then congratulations on adjusting your perceptions and >>>> glad I could help.

    Yes, we both agree that no actual AI exists

    Oh, disregard...   I see that you're actually a delusional cunt.
    Conversation over.

    I mean, you admitted to being a troll. So do you think you insulting me
    would hurt my feelings? It just means I riled you up enough.


    Time passes by.

    I was surprised that they announced VII, since it felt like they just
    released VI.

    Civilization VI is actually my favorite game in the series. I tend to
    like that type of art style, and the districts are great.

    However, a new game is a new game, and hopefully it will exceed my expectations.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zaghadka@21:1/5 to Spalls Hurgenson on Thu Aug 8 18:38:34 2024
    On Wed, 17 Jul 2024 11:00:17 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,
    Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    They'll get my money regardless.


    1991 Civilization
    1996 Civilization II
    (1999 Alpha Centauri)
    2001 Civilization III
    2005 Civilization IV
    2009 Civilization V
    2016 Civilization VI
    2024 Civilization VII ???
    2026 PROFI

    --
    Zag

    No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
    spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)