On 2025-06-23 12:15, Lester Thorpe wrote:

This NG is devoted to the advocacy of GNU/Linux, yet many posters
seem to want to use it as a forum for knocking Micro$oft/Apphole.

There is nothing wrong with knocking Micro$oft/Apphole, and they
sure as hell deserve it, but the important thing is to describe
or demonstrate the superior aspects of GNU/Linux irrespective
of any "competing" OS.

I can easily list several superior points:

1) Total user control of the OS and software environment, if the
user chooses to eschew popular distros.

Buy a kit car, you get total user control over the finished product!

2) Capability with any and all hardware present or past. Obsolete
hardware is never obsolete with GNU/Linux. Have floppies with an
ISA bus? No problem. Just check out the kernels, including
historic kernels, that are available at:

<https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/>

3) Vast array of GUIs for both users and programmers.

4) The Linux network stack has consistently beaten all competitors
since the very beginning.

Got a cite for that?

:-)

Gaming? What about gaming?

Gaming is for sexually repressed idiot assholes and GNU/Linux
is not the place for gaming.

So basically, Linux is "superior" because its good at what YOU like.

:-)

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This NG is devoted to the advocacy of GNU/Linux, yet many posters
seem to want to use it as a forum for knocking Micro$oft/Apphole.

There is nothing wrong with knocking Micro$oft/Apphole, and they
sure as hell deserve it, but the important thing is to describe
or demonstrate the superior aspects of GNU/Linux irrespective
of any "competing" OS.

I can easily list several superior points:

1) Total user control of the OS and software environment, if the
user chooses to eschew popular distros.

2) Capability with any and all hardware present or past. Obsolete
hardware is never obsolete with GNU/Linux. Have floppies with an
ISA bus? No problem. Just check out the kernels, including
historic kernels, that are available at:

<https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/>

3) Vast array of GUIs for both users and programmers.

4) The Linux network stack has consistently beaten all competitors
since the very beginning.

Gaming? What about gaming?

Gaming is for sexually repressed idiot assholes and GNU/Linux
is not the place for gaming.

Let's hear some of your contributions to this list of superior
attributes.

Knocking Micro$hit/Apphole is not enough. The superiority
of GNU/Linux must be laid bare.




--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

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W dniu 23.06.2025 o 21:15, Lester Thorpe pisze:

2) Capability with any and all hardware present or past. Obsolete
hardware is never obsolete with GNU/Linux. Have floppies with an
ISA bus? No problem. Just check out the kernels, including
historic kernels, that are available at:

<https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/>

Theoretically it is not true: Linus T. decided drop support for Intel
386 and Intel 486 and early Intel Pentium processors. This problem is
covered in article:

<https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/25/05/08/1927245/linux-drops-support-for-486-and-early-pentium-processors>

But in practise this is true, because Linux can run on all PC available
in the contemporary market.

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On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 12:21:06 -0700, Alan wrote:

On 2025-06-23 12:15, Lester Thorpe wrote:

This NG is devoted to the advocacy of GNU/Linux, yet many posters seem
to want to use it as a forum for knocking Micro$oft/Apphole.

There is nothing wrong with knocking Micro$oft/Apphole, and they sure
as hell deserve it, but the important thing is to describe or
demonstrate the superior aspects of GNU/Linux irrespective of any
"competing" OS.

I can easily list several superior points:

1) Total user control of the OS and software environment, if the user
chooses to eschew popular distros.

Buy a kit car, you get total user control over the finished product!

I gave that serious thought at one time but luckily my enthusiasm died
before I wound up with a garage full of pieces.

https://caterhamcars.com/en/models/assembly

Better than a kit airplane though.

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On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 12:21:06 -0700, Alan wrote:

So basically, Linux is "superior" because its good at what YOU like.

You got it!

I represent the knowledgeable computing professionals of the
world and it is GNU/Linux that we all like.

YOU represent Grandma Moses and all the other computing
ignoramuses and imbeciles that totally depend on Micro$lop/
Apphole for their token capabilities.

Get out of here, you INCOMPETENT reject.

GNU/Linux is NOT made for losers like you.


--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

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On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 21:40:15 +0200, 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 wrote:

Theoretically it is not true: Linus T. decided drop support for Intel
386 and Intel 486 and early Intel Pentium processors.

That only applies to recent kernels.

But at the link which I provided, all Linux kernels from version 0.01
from 1993 are available.

Furthermore, most GNU and FOSS software have archives dating back
to the same time.

Thus it is perfectly possible for any user to build a complete
system that could accommodate hardware that was current in the
early 1990's.

The same is NOT true for Micro$hit/Apphole.



--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

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On 23 Jun 2025 19:57:56 GMT, rbowman wrote:

I gave that serious thought at one time but luckily my enthusiasm died ...

Was that before, or after, your dick died?

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!


--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

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rbowman wrote:

Alan wrote:

Buy a kit car, you get total user control over the finished product!

I gave that serious thought at one time but luckily my enthusiasm died
before I wound up with a garage full of pieces.

https://caterhamcars.com/en/models/assembly

I'm amazed that those are still legal in the UK. They never have been
in the US, AFAIK. What a fun toy, if one had the space for it.

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On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 15:52:42 -0500, chrisv wrote:

rbowman wrote:

Alan wrote:

Buy a kit car, you get total user control over the finished product!

I gave that serious thought at one time but luckily my enthusiasm died >>before I wound up with a garage full of pieces.

https://caterhamcars.com/en/models/assembly

I'm amazed that those are still legal in the UK. They never have been
in the US, AFAIK. What a fun toy, if one had the space for it.

I doubt you could import a completed one but if you build it yourself I
think you could license it in this state. You might have to call it an
ATV. Quads and side-by-sides are street legal.

My lab partner was friends with a guy who raced a series 2 Super Seven
with a Cosworth 1500 at Limerock and I wound up on the pit crew a couple
of times. With the clamshell fenders flapping in the breeze it's a wonder
it didn't get airborne.

It was typical SCCA chaos with a mix of classes on the track. The
Corvettes ruled the straights but somehow they never could quite get away
from the pack of Sevens and Coopers chasing them.

Bench racing didn't do much for our lab experience. For best results. find
a nerd for a partner.

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On Jun 23, 2025 at 3:15:37 PM EDT, "Lester Thorpe" <[email protected]> wrote:

I can easily list several superior points:

Please do.

1) Total user control of the OS and software environment, if the
user chooses to eschew popular distros.

Users don't give a damn about "total control" of anything. They buy a PC, it comes with Windows or MacOS. All the software they will ever need is
available.

2) Capability with any and all hardware present or past. Obsolete
hardware is never obsolete with GNU/Linux. Have floppies with an
ISA bus? No problem. Just check out the kernels, including
historic kernels, that are available at:

Again, USERS don't give a damn about floppy drives. They don't even know - or care about - what an ISA bus is. If they are "checking out kernels", then they are eating corn.

3) Vast array of GUIs for both users and programmers.

Vast array of confusion for users.

4) The Linux network stack has consistently beaten all competitors
since the very beginning.

Even if that is true (very doubtful BTW), users don't give a shit. Your internet connection is WAY more important.

Linux is written by computer geeks for other computer geeks. Nothing wrong with that. But don't assume that all USERS are 15 year old know-nothing computer geeks like you.

Why don't you tell us all what - exactly - it is you DO with Linux that can't be done in Windows or MacOS (Unix). All we ever see is you bragging about compiling some obscure software. So what? Is that why you have a computer?
To compile software that someone else wrote? Do you think compiling software makes you a man? I was compiling software (that I wrote) 50+ years ago, but I did not brag about it to anyone.

USERS are happy to just download the ready-to-run installer/binary and go.
IOW, users want to DO something with the computer. The underlying hardware and software does not matter at all (It could be a Z80 running CP/M for all they care), nor are users interested in tinkering with hardware or compiling software.

Still waiting for your "several superior points".

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On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 01:38:58 +0000, Tyrone wrote:

4) The Linux network stack has consistently beaten all competitors
since the very beginning.

Even if that is true (very doubtful BTW), users don't give a shit. Your internet connection is WAY more important.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trumpet_Winsock

If you go back to the beginning Windows didn't even have a TCP/IP stack. Windows for Workgroups was aimed at enterprises and did have a more or
less functional Winsock.

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On 2025-06-23 13:42, Lester Thorpe wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 12:21:06 -0700, Alan wrote:

So basically, Linux is "superior" because its good at what YOU like.

You got it!

I represent the knowledgeable computing professionals of the
world and it is GNU/Linux that we all like.

<yawn>

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rbowman wrote:

chrisv wrote:

rbowman wrote:

https://caterhamcars.com/en/models/assembly

I'm amazed that those are still legal in the UK. They never have been
in the US, AFAIK. What a fun toy, if one had the space for it.

I doubt you could import a completed one but if you build it yourself I
think you could license it in this state. You might have to call it an
ATV. Quads and side-by-sides are street legal.

?? How could any such machines pass the crash tests, much less all
sorts of other regulations?

--
"[chrisv] refueses to realize that MS & Apple weren't ever the only
OSs out there:" - lying asshole "-hh", lying shamelessly

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On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 01:38:58 +0000, Tyrone wrote:

Users don't give a damn...

Oops! Wrong term, idiot.

A "user" is an active agent that fully exploits all machine capabilities.

You, however, are referring only to "point-and-click lackeys."

Thus the correct statement is:

Point-and-click lackeys don't give a damn...

Why don't you tell us all what - exactly - it is you DO with Linux that can't be done in Windows or MacOS (Unix).

That's easy:

Configure and build the entire OS according to need and taste.

Try doing _that_ with Micro$hit/Apphole.

Remember:

YOU control GNU/Linux.

Micro$hit/Apphole controls YOU.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

No brain, head of bone. It must be Tyrone.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!



--
Hail Linux! Hail FOSS! Hail Stallman!

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On 6/23/25 15:57, rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 12:21:06 -0700, Alan wrote:

On 2025-06-23 12:15, Lester Thorpe wrote:

This NG is devoted to the advocacy of GNU/Linux, yet many posters seem
to want to use it as a forum for knocking Micro$oft/Apphole.

There is nothing wrong with knocking Micro$oft/Apphole, and they sure
as hell deserve it, but the important thing is to describe or
demonstrate the superior aspects of GNU/Linux irrespective of any
"competing" OS.

I can easily list several superior points:

1) Total user control of the OS and software environment, if the user
chooses to eschew popular distros.

Buy a kit car, you get total user control over the finished product!

That's actually quite a good analogy for the DIY vs turnkey PC crowd.

I gave that serious thought at one time but luckily my enthusiasm died
before I wound up with a garage full of pieces.

https://caterhamcars.com/en/models/assembly

Better than a kit airplane though.

IIRC, the common appeal of the kit airplanes was because of their much
lower purchase price. Apparently, much of the cost savings is because
of lower liability insurance overhead: in the event of aircraft
failure, the kit company is able to pass it off on the DIY assembler.



-hh

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On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 06:12:38 -0500, chrisv wrote:

rbowman wrote:

chrisv wrote:

rbowman wrote:

https://caterhamcars.com/en/models/assembly

I'm amazed that those are still legal in the UK. They never have been
in the US, AFAIK. What a fun toy, if one had the space for it.

I doubt you could import a completed one but if you build it yourself I >>think you could license it in this state. You might have to call it an
ATV. Quads and side-by-sides are street legal.

?? How could any such machines pass the crash tests, much less all
sorts of other regulations?

https://www.dirtlegal.com/street-legal-utv-guide/montana#program

We don't need no stinkin' regulations. They are 4 wheeled motorcycles and
there are no motorcycle crash tests. There is a short list of things you
need mostly lights and a horn.

I think it was about 25 years ago when Montana went to one and done for motorcycles. You register it, get permanent plates, and that's it. The
first year it went in effect when I went in to register my bikes the DMV
lady said 'Well, this is the last time you'll have to register your toys!"
That covered trailers, RV (non-powered) and so forth.

It cuts both ways. My DR650 is registered for highway use but if I wanted
to ride it off highway I'd need a OHV permit, which I think is $50 for 2
years. I never bothered since 'off highway' is flexible. My skills and the
DR being pretty heavy means I'm not going too far on single track trails.

Since they don't have to see the vehicle in question just call the Seven a quadricycle and you're good.

This isn't California :) In fact my DR650 isn't legal in CA. I don't know
if Suzuki ever added the vapor recovery plumbing CA requires to all the
newer bikes but when I bought mine it definitely was a 49 state model.
I've ridden the Harley in CA and I doubt that is completely legal either
but who is going to check?

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On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 15:12:53 -0400, -hh wrote:

IIRC, the common appeal of the kit airplanes was because of their much
lower purchase price. Apparently, much of the cost savings is because
of lower liability insurance overhead: in the event of aircraft
failure, the kit company is able to pass it off on the DIY assembler.

It's up to the builder to get the air worthiness certificate which can be
a PITA. Considering a new Cessna 172 starts at $400,000 saving can be attractive. They haven't made 152s in 40 years but even a timed out 45
year old 152 is going to run $60,000+.

It's too bad the sport pilot classification turned out to be a flop. That
may have been by design. The maximum gross takeoff weight seemed to have
been carefully selected to screen out 150s and Tomahawk, leaving even more elderly taildraggers eligible. Cessna's 162 fizzled and I don't know how
many are left in the new market. I believe a home built can classify as a
LSA and be flown with the sport pilot ticket.

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On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 15:12:53 -0400, -hh wrote:

IIRC, the common appeal of the kit airplanes was because of their much
lower purchase price. Apparently, much of the cost savings is because
of lower liability insurance overhead: in the event of aircraft
failure, the kit company is able to pass it off on the DIY assembler.

Remember how John Denver died?

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On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 09:01:45 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 15:12:53 -0400, -hh wrote:

IIRC, the common appeal of the kit airplanes was because of their much
lower purchase price. Apparently, much of the cost savings is because
of lower liability insurance overhead: in the event of aircraft
failure, the kit company is able to pass it off on the DIY assembler.

Remember how John Denver died?

The plane didn't fail. The original builder put the fuel selector in a
strange place that was difficult to reach and Denver didn't refuel since
he didn't plan to be up that long. His contortions trying to reach the
selector may have contributed.

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Le 24-06-2025, Tyrone <[email protected]> a écrit :

Users don't give a damn about "total control" of anything. They buy a PC, it comes with Windows or MacOS. All the software they will ever need is available.

Except the antivirus they must install by themselves.

Linux is written by computer geeks for other computer geeks. Nothing wrong with that. But don't assume that all USERS are 15 year old know-nothing computer geeks like you.

When you assume that computer geeks aren't users, don't you assume
too much? When you assume all users are brain dead morons refusing to
chose anything, don't you assume to much?

USERS are happy to just download the ready-to-run installer/binary and go.

Which is easier on Linux because they can use their package manager when
for Windows they have to find the right website with the possibility to download something else.

IOW, users want to DO something with the computer.

Yep. Even the compute geeks. You refuse to acknowledge that, but you are
just wrong.

The underlying hardware and software does not matter at all

Of course that matter. That's why they change their computers because
they start to become too slow. When the users know they can spend less
to do the same they are often happy about it. They don't all need an
Apple computer to show the world they can waste money because they have
so much of it.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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Le 23-06-2025, Lester Thorpe <[email protected]> a écrit :

I represent the knowledgeable computing professionals of the
world and it is GNU/Linux that we all like.

That's probably one of your best jokes.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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Le 23-06-2025, Lester Thorpe <[email protected]> a écrit :

But at the link which I provided, all Linux kernels from version 0.01
from 1993 are available.

I don't know which link you provided, but if it claims the version 0.01
of the Linux kernel was released in 1993, it's wrong.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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Le 04-07-2025, Joel <[email protected]> a écrit :

Stéphane CARPENTIER <[email protected]> wrote:

Le 23-06-2025, Lester Thorpe <[email protected]> a écrit :

I represent the knowledgeable computing professionals of the
world and it is GNU/Linux that we all like.

That's probably one of your best jokes.

He uses Winblows on a separate PC to do all the things his Gentoo/LFS
junk system can't do, like open a fucking Web page. Just laughable.

Maybe I should have removed a part of his sentence. To be sure, the
joke wasn't about what he likes but about what he pretend to represent.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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On 2025-07-04, Joel <[email protected]> wrote:

Stéphane CARPENTIER <[email protected]> wrote:

Le 04-07-2025, Joel <[email protected]> a écrit :

Stéphane CARPENTIER <[email protected]> wrote:

Le 23-06-2025, Lester Thorpe <[email protected]> a écrit :

I represent the knowledgeable computing professionals of the
world and it is GNU/Linux that we all like.

That's probably one of your best jokes.

He uses Winblows on a separate PC to do all the things his Gentoo/LFS
junk system can't do, like open a fucking Web page. Just laughable.

Maybe I should have removed a part of his sentence. To be sure, the
joke wasn't about what he likes but about what he pretend to represent.

He thinks his outdated Linux apps that he can get to run on his
ridiculous system outshine more conventional PC use, it's just sad,
some people get set in their ways, never realizing how backward they
become, this has to be why he decries SSDs, literally calling them a "gimmick". Well sure it's easy to boot from an HDD when it's loading
five processes or something, but NVMe SSDs in particular are a
breakthrough in storage efficiency.

I've read some of his posts under various nyms and my conclusion is
he is a troll just trying to gaslight people.
Your assessment of him is spot on.


--
pothead

36- George Graves: "Jason. You have started an argument with
the *Snit (AKA Michael Glasser)*, this should not be done. He
will drive you crazy with his twisted logic, his deep-rooted
need to be ALWAYS right at any cost. He will move goalposts,
set up strawmen, and bore you into submission with his endless
pedanticism. The only way to engage him is to hit and run. NEVER
engage him, it's a futile, empty procedure that will only anger
you and feed him. Take my advice and STAY AWAY!" 27 Oct 2004 <https://web.archive.org/web/20190529043314/http://cosmicpenguin.com/snitlist.html>

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On 4 Jul 2025 23:04:01 GMT, rbowman <[email protected]> wrote in <[email protected]>:

On 04 Jul 2025 19:37:42 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

Le 24-06-2025, Tyrone <[email protected]> a écrit :

Users don't give a damn about "total control" of anything. They buy a
PC, it comes with Windows or MacOS. All the software they will ever
need is available.

Except the antivirus they must install by themselves.

I used Kaspersky for years but now I only have Windows Defender on the Windows laptop. So far, so good.

I run the occasional clamav scan.

On Linux, of course.

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090Ti 24G
OS: Linux 6.15.4 D: Mint 22.1 DE: Xfce 4.18 Mem: 258G
"Oxymoron: Sure bet."

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On 04 Jul 2025 19:37:42 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

Le 24-06-2025, Tyrone <[email protected]> a écrit :

Users don't give a damn about "total control" of anything. They buy a
PC, it comes with Windows or MacOS. All the software they will ever
need is available.

Except the antivirus they must install by themselves.

I used Kaspersky for years but now I only have Windows Defender on the
Windows laptop. So far, so good.

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