XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:

There is far more to computing for the vast majority of users than the ability to run open-source. Get real!

The reality is, just about the entire computing ecosystem nowadays is
crucially dependent on open source at some point. There is no longer any getting away from it. It underlies everything.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2025-01-04 21:34, Sn!pe wrote:

Andrzej Matuch <[email protected]> wrote:

On 2025-01-04 19:39, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:

[big snip]

[OT] That's the great thing about Apple: from the users' viewpoint it >>>> all "just works".

Until it doesn't. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something >>> like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is >>> missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source
software turns into a complete nightmare.

I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's
storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux.

Fair comment. You're in a very small minority for wanting to do this.

Sure, because Mac users typically don't care how the computer works;
they just want to use the software to accomplish something. Checking
wear, upgrading and changing components is all beneath them. Those who
would wish to do such things are peons.

Seriously though, I like the Apple-silicon Macs but I'm realizing that
I'm not the kind of person who would be content knowing that whatever I purchased can't be changed in the slightest after purchase. I love how
easily Apple hardware communicates with other Apple hardware and find
MacOS to be a nice system, but I'm realizing that the best compromise
for me is Linux delivered by a steady community like that of Fedora.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 1/4/25 10:08 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

On 2025-01-04 21:34, Sn!pe wrote:

Andrzej Matuch <[email protected]> wrote:

On 2025-01-04 19:39, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:

[big snip]

[OT] That's the great thing about Apple:  from the users' viewpoint it >>>>> all "just works".

Until it doesn't. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for
something
like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality
that is
missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source
software turns into a complete nightmare.

I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's
storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux.

Fair comment.  You're in a very small minority for wanting to do this.

Sure, because Mac users typically don't care how the computer works;
they just want to use the software to accomplish something. Checking
wear, upgrading and changing components is all beneath them. Those who
would wish to do such things are peons.

Reminds me of a friend who sends me an email 2x/year that's a copy of
the report of the latest chemical analysis from his car's most recent
oil change: dude, its fine that you want your car to last, but its not
going to be preserved in a museum!

Seriously though, I like the Apple-silicon Macs but I'm realizing that
I'm not the kind of person who would be content knowing that whatever I purchased can't be changed in the slightest after purchase. I love how
easily Apple hardware communicates with other Apple hardware and find
MacOS to be a nice system, but I'm realizing that the best compromise
for me is Linux delivered by a steady community like that of Fedora.

I think what changed for me was recognizing that I no longer need to go
through extraordinary efforts to make an PC last a decade anymore,
because their costs have declined so dramatically over the past 40 years.


-hh

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 03:25:55 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:

There is far more to computing for the vast majority of users than
the ability to run open-source. Get real!

The reality is, just about the entire computing ecosystem nowadays is
crucially dependent on open source at some point. There is no longer
any getting away from it. It underlies everything.

Maybe so, but ... the users (those 99% of
people who use their computers as tools not toys) neither need to know
that nor do they care about it.

Open Source is like the car with a bonnet you can open. Most users never
look under the bonnet of their car. So why not sell cars with sealed
bonnets?

Because a car with a bonnet that can be opened can be serviced by any
competent mechanic -- you don’t have to take your car back to the manufacturer for everything. Imagine how expensive car maintenance would
be if the original manufacturer had a monopoly on it--and how much more
likely they would be to tell you that it is unfixable and must be
replaced, just because they would rather sell you a new model. It is free- market competition that keeps prices down, and gives you such a choice of market products.

Open Source brings free-market competition to the software industry.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2025-01-04 22:39, Sn!pe wrote:

Andrzej Matuch <[email protected]> wrote:

[...]

I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's >>>> storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux.

Fair comment. You're in a very small minority for wanting to do this.

Sure, because Mac users typically don't care how the computer works;
they just want to use the software to accomplish something. Checking
wear, upgrading and changing components is all beneath them. Those who
would wish to do such things are peons.

Seriously though, I like the Apple-silicon Macs but I'm realizing that
I'm not the kind of person who would be content knowing that whatever I
purchased can't be changed in the slightest after purchase. I love how
easily Apple hardware communicates with other Apple hardware and find
MacOS to be a nice system, but I'm realizing that the best compromise
for me is Linux delivered by a steady community like that of Fedora.

Yes, I quite agree; it's a matter of 'horses for courses'. Personally, having played the field, I simply can't be bothered any more getting to
grips with the nuts and bolts of the system.

I am admittedly feeling the same way now that I'm nearing middle age,
which is partly why I am reverting to the frame of mind I had in my 20s
when I was a fan of Apple and Mac OS X. Had the hardware not been too
slow to run the operating system back then, I probably wouldn't have
returned to Windows in 2006 or so. I was considering making all my
hardware Apple when it will be time to replace what I own, but I don't
feel comfortable spending nearly 3k or more on something that I can't
upgrade. Since I also don't want to be stuck with an unfixable bug like
the fTPM stuttering in Windows, Linux seems like the perfect solution.

Macs suit me well, they do what I want of them. If I need anything more (e.g. ham radio stuff) I know how to achieve it in a VM; not many people would even dream of doing that.

I'm especially a fan of the battery life I got when I still had that
Macbook Air M1. I imagine that it would have gotten worse had I allowed
the battery to wear out like most people do, but at 98% health, it was remarkable. I could go an entire workday with a single charge. Still, it definitely needed more than 8GB of RAM and 256GB was definitely not
enough storage, but there was nothing I could do about it. Additionally,
once the 256GB wore out (within the first five years by my
calculations), there would have been nothing I could do to replace the
storage. Not only that, but once the storage is worn, it shorts the CPU rendering the entire unit useless anyway. I've watched enough videos
about it on YouTube to prompt me to sell a machine I otherwise liked
very much. Considering this, I am likely to move to a manufacturer
specializing in Linux hardware with an open BIOS and the rest.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

-hh wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

<snip>

I think what changed for me was recognizing that I no longer need to go through extraordinary efforts to make an PC last a decade anymore,
because their costs have declined so dramatically over the past 40 years.

Extraordinary efforts? I have a 12+ year-old laptop that's been a Linux
box for all of its life (after it got delivered to me).

The only extraordinary effort I took was installing an SSD.

The thing is shut down right now; Imma keeping it around for potential later usage.

(I've got an old desktop box sitting up in the attic. Not sure I will ever power it on again. Noisy, takes up too much room.)

--
In Columbia, Pennsylvania, it is against the law for a pilot to tickle
a female flying student under her chin with a feather duster in order
to get her attention.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2025-01-05 01:47, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 03:25:55 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:

On Sun, 5 Jan 2025 01:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:

There is far more to computing for the vast majority of users than
the ability to run open-source. Get real!

The reality is, just about the entire computing ecosystem nowadays is
crucially dependent on open source at some point. There is no longer
any getting away from it. It underlies everything.

Maybe so, but ... the users (those 99% of
people who use their computers as tools not toys) neither need to know
that nor do they care about it.

Open Source is like the car with a bonnet you can open. Most users never
look under the bonnet of their car. So why not sell cars with sealed
bonnets?

Because a car with a bonnet that can be opened can be serviced by any competent mechanic -- you don’t have to take your car back to the manufacturer for everything. Imagine how expensive car maintenance would
be if the original manufacturer had a monopoly on it--and how much more likely they would be to tell you that it is unfixable and must be
replaced, just because they would rather sell you a new model. It is free- market competition that keeps prices down, and gives you such a choice of market products.

Open Source brings free-market competition to the software industry.

There is absolutely nothing I can disagree with there. Your example is especially significant since my brother and sister in law decided to
make Audi their favourite car brand a few years ago in response to my
wife's decision to buy a luxury car for her work (she needed to be presentable). They are jealous people who always feel the need to one-up
us even though we're not competing with them in any way. Anyway, they
could barely afford the car so when it came time to fix it, the wife
decided to have her husband fix it himself rather than go to the
dealership or a competent mechanic. He quickly realized that unlike the Chevrolet and Hyundai they owned before, the Audi required special tools
to open it up. Similarly, it needed non-standard parts for the repair
itself. Clearly, such practical people should have bought from a company
which allows people to fix the vehicles themselves, but that wouldn't
have provided them the second or two of satisfaction at the thought they
might have made us jealous.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Andrzej Matuch wrote:

Seriously though, I like the Apple-silicon Macs but I'm realizing that
I'm not the kind of person who would be content knowing that whatever I >purchased can't be changed in the slightest after purchase.

Yeah, it makes them a less fun, to us computer geeks.

--
'[chrisv] literally said it was "stupid" to test the code vs relying
on compiler warnings.' - DumFSck, lying shamelessly

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 1/5/25 7:19 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

-hh wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

<snip>

I think what changed for me was recognizing that I no longer need to go
through extraordinary efforts to make an PC last a decade anymore,
because their costs have declined so dramatically over the past 40 years.

Extraordinary efforts? I have a 12+ year-old laptop that's been a Linux
box for all of its life (after it got delivered to me).

The only extraordinary effort I took was installing an SSD.

For hardware that's only ~10 years old, sure.

But in this case I was thinking further back in time, such as in the
1990s where things like CPU speeds increased by +30% every ~9 months.
That high rate of change (vs today's) is what motivated a lot of us to
DIY incremental hardware upgrades.

The thing is shut down right now; Imma keeping it around for potential later usage.

(I've got an old desktop box sitting up in the attic. Not sure I will ever power it on again. Noisy, takes up too much room.)

Similarly, I've got a Vista box sitting around right now from an
"Estate" clean-out of a familymember's home; not sure that anyone knows
its Admin password...but it does have an SSD that I recall that I had
installed sometime before 2013. Keeping it around to potentially make a
Linux based NAS appliance out of it, but part of that question will be
to see how many internal SATA drives it can support to see if its really
worth bothering much with, to repurpose a stack of old small 4TB drives
that are on the "don't throw away yet" old hardware pile.

-hh

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 1/5/2025 8:20 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

the Audi required special tools to open it up. Similarly, it
needed non-standard parts for the repair itself.

My wife had an A4, and now has a Q5. Great cars, but for those reasons
you mentioned I probably wouldn't ever buy one.

She absolutely insists on paying the stealership outrageous amounts for
simple servicing - it makes her feel good, even though I could do most
of it for the cost of a few special tools and parts.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-01-08 12:21, DFS wrote:

On 1/5/2025 8:20 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

the Audi required special tools to open it up. Similarly, it needed
non-standard parts for the repair itself.

My wife had an A4, and now has a Q5.  Great cars, but for those reasons
you mentioned I probably wouldn't ever buy one.

She absolutely insists on paying the stealership outrageous amounts for simple servicing - it makes her feel good, even though I could do most
of it for the cost of a few special tools and parts.

If you lease the cars, you can avoid all those servicing costs. It's
part of why my wife and I leased for such a long time with Infiniti.
However, I actually like this new QX60 and will probably just buy it
after three years. I was reluctant to buy the previous one because the
model was known for its unreliable CVT, but this one's got a nine-speed automatic.

--
CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)