• Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Re

    From c186282@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 20 02:46:24 2025
    https://www.newsnationnow.com/business/tech/ai/invested-billions-ai-zero-return/

    There has been over $30B in enterprise investments into generative
    AI

    5% of integrated AI pilots are extracting millions in
    value'

    AI systems fail due to their inability to learn and think in
    ways humans can


    . . .

    Um ... don't expect "AI" to be Just Like US.

    Be HAPPY if it's even a LITTLE Like Us.

    In any case, there has been VAST VAST investment
    in this tech - but it's returning almost NOTHING
    for all the investment.

    NOT a good business model.

    The evil GOAL ... disemploy almost all of the
    very annoying Humans.

    Guess they go into ghettos ... with an address
    to the local Soylent Green factory.

    BUT ... WHO then has the money to Buy Your Stuff ???

    That's the BIG Flaw in all this.

    Obsolete/broke people CAN'T buy your stuff.

    System error.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From JJenssen@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 20 12:09:06 2025
    You are right, bro - but where's the button to reset??


    Am 20.08.25 um 08:46 schrieb c186282:
    https://www.newsnationnow.com/business/tech/ai/invested-billions-ai- zero-return/

    There has been over $30B in enterprise investments into generative
    AI

    5% of integrated AI pilots are extracting millions in
    value'

    AI systems fail due to their inability to learn and think in
    ways humans can


    . . .

      Um ... don't expect "AI" to be Just Like US.

      Be HAPPY if it's even a LITTLE Like Us.

      In any case, there has been VAST VAST investment
      in this tech - but it's returning almost NOTHING
      for all the investment.

      NOT a good business model.

      The evil GOAL ... disemploy almost all of the
      very annoying Humans.

      Guess they go into ghettos ... with an address
      to the local Soylent Green factory.

      BUT ... WHO then has the money to Buy Your Stuff ???

      That's the BIG Flaw in all this.

      Obsolete/broke people CAN'T buy your stuff.

      System error.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 20 12:49:39 2025
    On 2025-08-20 08:46, c186282 wrote:
    https://www.newsnationnow.com/business/tech/ai/invested-billions-ai- zero-return/

    There has been over $30B in enterprise investments into generative
    AI

    5% of integrated AI pilots are extracting millions in
    value'

    AI systems fail due to their inability to learn and think in
    ways humans can


    . . .

      Um ... don't expect "AI" to be Just Like US.

      Be HAPPY if it's even a LITTLE Like Us.

      In any case, there has been VAST VAST investment
      in this tech - but it's returning almost NOTHING
      for all the investment.

      NOT a good business model.

      The evil GOAL ... disemploy almost all of the
      very annoying Humans.

      Guess they go into ghettos ... with an address
      to the local Soylent Green factory.

      BUT ... WHO then has the money to Buy Your Stuff ???

      That's the BIG Flaw in all this.

      Obsolete/broke people CAN'T buy your stuff.

      System error.

    Means you have to change the economy paradigm and start dishing the
    universal salary.

    But that's a communism! The USA dies of infarct.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Wed Aug 20 12:23:20 2025
    On 20/08/2025 11:49, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-08-20 08:46, c186282 wrote:
    https://www.newsnationnow.com/business/tech/ai/invested-billions-ai-
    zero-return/

    There has been over $30B in enterprise investments into generative
    AI

    5% of integrated AI pilots are extracting millions in
    value'

    AI systems fail due to their inability to learn and think in
    ways humans can


    . . .

       Um ... don't expect "AI" to be Just Like US.

       Be HAPPY if it's even a LITTLE Like Us.

       In any case, there has been VAST VAST investment
       in this tech - but it's returning almost NOTHING
       for all the investment.

       NOT a good business model.

       The evil GOAL ... disemploy almost all of the
       very annoying Humans.

       Guess they go into ghettos ... with an address
       to the local Soylent Green factory.

       BUT ... WHO then has the money to Buy Your Stuff ???

       That's the BIG Flaw in all this.

       Obsolete/broke people CAN'T buy your stuff.

       System error.

    Means you have to change the economy paradigm and start dishing the
    universal salary.

    But that's a communism! The USA dies of infarct.


    Well that is not far from some kind of inevitable

    As much as people like to pretend that nations are shaped by Great
    Thinkers or Poltical Events, the reality is that the political events
    arise out of the technology that those nations adopt.

    A horse drawn iron plough (plow) betas an Oox drawn wooden one hands down...

    Mass-produced repeating rifles destroy a nation using bows and arrows.
    No matter how noble it is.

    WE have already eliminated Labour as a meaningful force, with heavy
    machines, then we eliminated the clerk and the copy typist with
    computers, we will now eliminate the programmers with AI.

    All that cheap production, but no one with the money to buy it...



    --
    Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich
    people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason
    they are poor.

    Peter Thompson

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  • From vallor@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Aug 21 00:05:10 2025
    On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 02:46:24 -0400, c186282 <[email protected]> wrote in <[email protected]>:

    https://www.newsnationnow.com/business/tech/ai/invested-billions-ai-zero-
    return/

    There has been over $30B in enterprise investments into generative AI

    5% of integrated AI pilots are extracting millions in value'

    AI systems fail due to their inability to learn and think in ways humans
    can


    . . .

    Um ... don't expect "AI" to be Just Like US.

    Be HAPPY if it's even a LITTLE Like Us.

    In any case, there has been VAST VAST investment in this tech - but
    it's returning almost NOTHING for all the investment.

    NOT a good business model.

    The evil GOAL ... disemploy almost all of the very annoying Humans.

    Guess they go into ghettos ... with an address to the local Soylent
    Green factory.

    BUT ... WHO then has the money to Buy Your Stuff ???

    That's the BIG Flaw in all this.

    Obsolete/broke people CAN'T buy your stuff.

    System error.

    Well, think about it: capitalism has no guarantee that there will
    be jobs for everybody who can work.

    Might need to move to UBI.

    BTW, for some AI examples, I've posted to comp.ai.shells,
    including a recent success story with a slightly complex
    network configuration.

    I used to refer to ChatGPT as "the father of lies" because
    of its hallucinations, but it is fairly solid when it comes
    to "here's the configuration I want, give me the netplan file"
    type of problems.

    --
    -v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090Ti 24G
    OS: Linux 6.16.1 D: Mint 22.1 DE: Xfce 4.18
    NVIDIA: 580.76.05 Mem: 258G
    "Inertia makes the world go round."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to vallor on Wed Aug 20 23:39:45 2025
    On 8/20/25 8:05 PM, vallor wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 02:46:24 -0400, c186282 <[email protected]> wrote in <[email protected]>:

    https://www.newsnationnow.com/business/tech/ai/invested-billions-ai-zero-
    return/

    There has been over $30B in enterprise investments into generative AI

    5% of integrated AI pilots are extracting millions in value'

    AI systems fail due to their inability to learn and think in ways humans
    can


    . . .

    Um ... don't expect "AI" to be Just Like US.

    Be HAPPY if it's even a LITTLE Like Us.

    In any case, there has been VAST VAST investment in this tech - but
    it's returning almost NOTHING for all the investment.

    NOT a good business model.

    The evil GOAL ... disemploy almost all of the very annoying Humans.

    Guess they go into ghettos ... with an address to the local Soylent
    Green factory.

    BUT ... WHO then has the money to Buy Your Stuff ???

    That's the BIG Flaw in all this.

    Obsolete/broke people CAN'T buy your stuff.

    System error.

    Well, think about it: capitalism has no guarantee that there will
    be jobs for everybody who can work.

    What about when NO ONE can work ? Where does
    the money come from ? The food ?

    Might need to move to UBI.

    Some little 3rd-world dumps are beginning to
    look good ...

    A hovel, maybe a crappy old boat ...

    BTW, for some AI examples, I've posted to comp.ai.shells,
    including a recent success story with a slightly complex
    network configuration.

    I used to refer to ChatGPT as "the father of lies" because
    of its hallucinations, but it is fairly solid when it comes
    to "here's the configuration I want, give me the netplan file"
    type of problems.

    YOUR job gone next week .....

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From =?UTF-8?B?8J+HtfCfh7FKYWNlayBNYXJja@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 21 10:44:17 2025
    W dniu 21.08.2025 o 02:05, vallor pisze:
    Well, think about it: capitalism has no guarantee that there will
    be jobs for everybody who can work.

    But physical reality guarantee, that there is always many more
    profitable business to do than people/entrepreneurs actually can
    perform. This is guarantee by The Creator of the Universe. To be more
    precise: I think that all "profitable business" in the Universe are
    calculated in that way each live human has something useful to do. But
    due to many parasitans (who do not works as expected), for honest people
    there is many more useful jobs. So this is not related to the
    capitalism, nor socialism, nor nasism. This is pure Totliazlism
    thinking. More about this philosophy you can read from WWW page of prof.
    Jan Pająk from NZ, who discover Totalizm philosophy:

    <https://pajak.org.nz/totalizm.htm>

    And its pioneer monograph 8e:

    <https://pajak.org.nz/text_8.htm>

    Note: Above links lead to the early works on the Totalizm, and now are outdated. But still actual in core aspects. Nova days Totalism
    philosophy were completely understand and described by me in the
    monograph "Ideology of Powerful Geniuses", available for free (as free
    beer) on my home page, alas currently only in Polish language:

    <https://energokod.pl/monografie/Ideologia%20Geniuszy-Mocarzy.pdf>

    Note: This breakthrough works are still in progress.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to John Ames on Thu Aug 21 10:20:44 2025
    On 20/08/2025 16:54, John Ames wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 02:46:24 -0400
    c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:

    In any case, there has been VAST VAST investment in this tech - but
    it's returning almost NOTHING for all the investment.

    NOT a good business model.

    The evil GOAL ... disemploy almost all of the very annoying Humans.

    BUT ... WHO then has the money to Buy Your Stuff ???

    This is the end result of decades of business culture that promotes
    idiots who make impressive-sounding noises over people with actual line-of-business knowledge and/or real management savvy - a bunch of billionaire morons lighting money on fire in hopes of obsoleting the
    workers they've already mostly reduced to wage-slaves out of pure
    greed, with no consideration for whether the thing they're burning it
    on will ever do the thing they hope it will* or whether their lunatic
    gamble doesn't stand a real chance of cratering the very economy that
    gives their billions any real-world value** in the first place.

    All driven by the financial emancipation of consumers with far more
    money than sense..

    * (It won't, at least not the particular technology that all their
    moron AI-startup CEO friends are all-in on.)
    ** (It does.)

    Just *beyond* insane - reckless, irresponsible squandering for the sake
    of nothing at all beyond sociopathic contempt for everyone they
    consider beneath them. Sadly, we're not likely to get the "investors
    jumping from windows" phase of the crash - that'd require a level of
    basic self-awareness that these flesh-suit simulacra are simply not
    capable of - but we can hope that in the fallout they might at least be
    eaten alive by starving peasants.

    Don't hold back, Say what you think...
    From a European perspective the problem is that the USA is simply too
    rich for its level of wisdom

    It plays with expensive toys while the rest of the world struggles to
    eat. And equates the pure dumb luck of inhabiting a continent stuffed
    with resources but not people, as a demonstration of innate superiority,
    rather than good fortune.


    --
    "Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace, community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
    "What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

    "Jeremy Corbyn?"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 21 10:21:36 2025
    On 21/08/2025 04:39, c186282 wrote:
    Well, think about it:  capitalism has no guarantee that there will
    be jobs for everybody who can work.

      What about when NO ONE can work ? Where does
      the money come from ? The food ?

    Uncle Robot


    --
    Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
    too dark to read.

    Groucho Marx

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 21 10:22:52 2025
    On 21/08/2025 09:44, 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 wrote:
    But physical reality guarantee, that there is always many more
    profitable business to do than people/entrepreneurs actually can perform.

    Now go and apply that to the Kalahari desert

    --
    Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
    too dark to read.

    Groucho Marx

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From =?UTF-8?B?8J+HtfCfh7FKYWNlayBNYXJja@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 21 14:12:25 2025
    W dniu 21.08.2025 o 11:22, The Natural Philosopher pisze:
    On 21/08/2025 09:44, 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 wrote:
    But physical reality guarantee, that there is always many more
    profitable business to do than people/entrepreneurs actually can perform.

    Now go and apply that to the Kalahari desert

    What did you say? You probably mean "Greenland arctic desert" - this is
    popular in USA nova days. Then ask your president - he surely will know.

    But for your information: we talk about "work for all people", and not
    about "work everywhere".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Thu Aug 21 17:54:58 2025
    On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 10:20:44 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    It plays with expensive toys while the rest of the world struggles to
    eat. And equates the pure dumb luck of inhabiting a continent stuffed
    with resources but not people, as a demonstration of innate superiority, rather than good fortune.

    As opposed to a little island light on natural resources that attempted to colonize the world to get raw materials and was really upset when the
    colonials developed their own value adding industries?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to John Ames on Fri Aug 22 00:19:47 2025
    On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 13:59:25 -0700, John Ames wrote:

    On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 10:20:44 +0100 The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:

    All driven by the financial emancipation of consumers with far more
    money than sense..

    There's a lot of things you can pin on consumer stupidity, but I doubt
    this is one of 'em. It's probably in part a natural consequence of the
    fact that sensible people may sometimes hire idiots/grifters by mistake,
    but idiots/grifters, once they have a foothold, will pretty much always
    hire more idiots/grifters, but in the US it got a big boost from a catastrophic court verdict stating that the primary duty of management
    in a publically-traded corporation was to the stockholders and the
    actual health of the business was at best a secondary concern (let alone little questions like "is what we're doing in any way ethical?" or "do
    people even *want* what we're trying to sell them?") Ed Zitron has a
    pretty good rundown on how this unfolded:

    https://www.wheresyoured.at/tss/ https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-era-of-the-business-idiot/

    The Ford (who was a horrible man otherwise) link didn't go where I
    thought it would. Edison, Ford, and other innovators that felt they had
    been badly used by the Wall Street money men tended to be bitter.

    The failure of Ford's peace mission also colored his theory of who was responsible for selling the idea of war.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Ship

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to John Ames on Fri Aug 22 11:14:02 2025
    On 21/08/2025 21:59, John Ames wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 10:20:44 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher<[email protected]d> wrote:

    All driven by the financial emancipation of consumers with far more
    money than sense..
    There's a lot of things you can pin on consumer stupidity, but I doubt
    this is one of 'em.

    That is a perspective gleaned from years of experience selling tech into commercial and industrial markets and looking at buyer choices made by consumers.
    Consumers buy fashionable ShinyShit™ because they can afford to and they
    are bored.
    Industrial and commercial businesses by BoringOldShit™ because it will
    do the job at minimal cost.

    I think the epitome of that was when I worked a year in a company making electric guitars. The principal said 'we aren't selling guitars. We are
    selling dreams. 90% of these will never be played beyond the bedroom'

    My summary of that perspective on products is 'All chrome and tailfins' referring to the total dross that was the 1950s American car market.

    Money spent on styling, but not on making a better car.

    And te Americans - whom we referred to during WW2 as 'over sexed, over
    paid, and over here' - just lapped it all up.

    Bless!
    --
    Of what good are dead warriors? … Warriors are those who desire battle
    more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
    their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
    battle dance and dream of glory … The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
    that they are dead.
    Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From c186282@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Fri Aug 22 09:29:00 2025
    On 8/21/25 5:21 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 21/08/2025 04:39, c186282 wrote:
    Well, think about it:  capitalism has no guarantee that there will
    be jobs for everybody who can work.

       What about when NO ONE can work ? Where does
       the money come from ? The food ?

    Uncle Robot

    Oh no, no, no !!!

    Too much AI = nobody with money to buy stuff

    No customers, no profits. Uncle 'Bot will have
    empty pockets.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 22 19:49:02 2025
    On 22/08/2025 14:29, c186282 wrote:
    On 8/21/25 5:21 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 21/08/2025 04:39, c186282 wrote:
    Well, think about it:  capitalism has no guarantee that there will
    be jobs for everybody who can work.

       What about when NO ONE can work ? Where does
       the money come from ? The food ?

    Uncle Robot

      Oh no, no, no !!!

      Too much AI = nobody with money to buy stuff

    Not at all. They just print money and give it to you.

    So you can buy their products


      No customers, no profits. Uncle 'Bot will have
      empty pockets.

    Money and wealth are not the same things.
    Since the end of Bretton woods




    --
    You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
    kind word alone.

    Al Capone

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From c186282@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Aug 23 00:11:40 2025
    On 8/22/25 2:49 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 22/08/2025 14:29, c186282 wrote:
    On 8/21/25 5:21 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 21/08/2025 04:39, c186282 wrote:
    Well, think about it:  capitalism has no guarantee that there will
    be jobs for everybody who can work.

       What about when NO ONE can work ? Where does
       the money come from ? The food ?

    Uncle Robot

       Oh no, no, no !!!

       Too much AI = nobody with money to buy stuff

    Not at all. They just print money and give it to you.

    So you can buy their products

    Oh ... just wow ..........

       No customers, no profits. Uncle 'Bot will have
       empty pockets.

    Money and wealth are not the same things.
    Since the end of Bretton woods

    People DO stuff to make money - money is a sort
    of proxy for 'work'. However if you do no work
    then ........

    Too much "AI" = almost nobody DOING anything.

    I see it all ... vast vast ghettos full of crap
    govt apt blocks, warehousing for the unemployable.
    Stand in line every day for your food ration.

    Then, soon, you'll see Soylent Green on the list.

    And the portions will get smaller and smaller until ...

    Why should the elite support a vast number of
    unemployables ? Just let 'em DIE. Keep a few
    of the pretty girls for slaves, otherwise the
    bots will take care of the menial stuff.

    Hmmmm ... there was an old Trek about an elite
    living SO well and nice in a 'cloud city'. No
    one even thought about the slaves providing the
    stuff - except maybe the govt propaganda about
    how they LIKED living that way. Now sub AI/bots
    for the slave labor and what picture do you get ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 23 10:56:56 2025
    On 23/08/2025 05:11, c186282 wrote:


      I see it all ... vast vast ghettos full of crap
      govt apt blocks, warehousing for the unemployable.
      Stand in line every day for your food ration.

    I see you have been to Russia.

      Then, soon, you'll see Soylent Green on the list.

    I see you are about to visit Russia

      And the portions will get smaller and smaller until ...

      Why should the elite support a vast number of
      unemployables ? Just let 'em DIE. Keep a few
      of the pretty girls for slaves, otherwise the
      bots will take care of the menial stuff.

    Well...to a point yes. That which you have described is Russia, to a T.

    BUT Uncle Vlad is running out of vodka soaked plebs to send to the
    front, and unfortunately he never got round to making the robots,
    whereas Ukraine, being a country worth defending, or so its people
    think, has been creating WarBots™ like crazy.

    In cahoots with France Germany the UK...(but NOT the US).

      Hmmmm ... there was an old Trek about an elite
      living SO well and nice in a 'cloud city'. No
      one even thought about the slaves providing the
      stuff - except maybe the govt propaganda about
      how they LIKED living that way. Now sub AI/bots
      for the slave labor and what picture do you get ?

    I, Robot?

    In the end the question is whether the bulk gene pool is more valuable
    to keep alive or not.

    And what power, if any, they have.

    --
    Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Aug 23 18:38:48 2025
    On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 10:56:56 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 23/08/2025 05:11, c186282 wrote:


      I see it all ... vast vast ghettos full of crap govt apt blocks,
      warehousing for the unemployable.
      Stand in line every day for your food ration.

    I see you have been to Russia.

    No need.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Taylor_Homes

    The waiting in line for food was streamlined by EBT cards. The previous
    paper food stamps were cumbersome. RFK Jr. is making waves by suggesting
    SNAP benefits should be used to buy junk food.

    https://www.npr.org/2025/06/11/nx-s1-5429651/rfk-jr-s-snap-changes-have- people-worried-about-losing-benefits-altogether

    He has an uphill fight. Some people have been raised on junk food for generations. That's what they eat.

    Robert Taylor and Cabrini-Green are the notorious examples but most of the
    '60s era high rises have been demolished. Most of them were quite nice
    before the tenants moved it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sat Aug 23 20:06:53 2025
    On 23/08/2025 19:38, rbowman wrote:
    Robert Taylor and Cabrini-Green are the notorious examples but most of the '60s era high rises have been demolished. Most of them were quite nice
    before the tenants moved it.

    It has been noted that high rise flats that sell for millions are well
    looked after. High rise flats that are given away free are trashed
    immediately.

    You can take the plebs out of the slum but you cant take the slum out of
    the plebs


    --
    "In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
    true: it is true because it is powerful."

    Lucas Bergkamp

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Sun Aug 24 03:36:38 2025
    On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 20:06:53 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 23/08/2025 19:38, rbowman wrote:
    Robert Taylor and Cabrini-Green are the notorious examples but most of
    the '60s era high rises have been demolished. Most of them were quite
    nice before the tenants moved it.

    It has been noted that high rise flats that sell for millions are well
    looked after. High rise flats that are given away free are trashed immediately.

    You can take the plebs out of the slum but you cant take the slum out of
    the plebs

    Going back to the Roman social classes I would argue what lives in the
    projects would correspond to the slaves rather than the plebes but we
    can't have slaves anymore. Marx' lumpenproletariat is a misnomer since the proletariat works for a living and has economic value rather than being a
    drain on the society..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sun Aug 24 11:31:41 2025
    On 24/08/2025 04:36, rbowman wrote:
    On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 20:06:53 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 23/08/2025 19:38, rbowman wrote:
    Robert Taylor and Cabrini-Green are the notorious examples but most of
    the '60s era high rises have been demolished. Most of them were quite
    nice before the tenants moved it.

    It has been noted that high rise flats that sell for millions are well
    looked after. High rise flats that are given away free are trashed
    immediately.

    You can take the plebs out of the slum but you cant take the slum out of
    the plebs

    Going back to the Roman social classes I would argue what lives in the projects would correspond to the slaves rather than the plebes but we
    can't have slaves anymore. Marx' lumpenproletariat is a misnomer since the proletariat works for a living and has economic value rather than being a drain on the society..

    Not gonna argue that one. Except the slaves did useful work

    Us techs working for big corporates are the slaves, the people in the
    projects are the ordinary free Romans wanting 'bread, and circuses'


    --
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
    gospel of envy.

    Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

    Winston Churchill

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Sun Aug 24 18:51:28 2025
    On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 11:31:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 24/08/2025 04:36, rbowman wrote:
    On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 20:06:53 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 23/08/2025 19:38, rbowman wrote:
    Robert Taylor and Cabrini-Green are the notorious examples but most
    of the '60s era high rises have been demolished. Most of them were
    quite nice before the tenants moved it.

    It has been noted that high rise flats that sell for millions are well
    looked after. High rise flats that are given away free are trashed
    immediately.

    You can take the plebs out of the slum but you cant take the slum out
    of the plebs

    Going back to the Roman social classes I would argue what lives in the
    projects would correspond to the slaves rather than the plebes but we
    can't have slaves anymore. Marx' lumpenproletariat is a misnomer since
    the proletariat works for a living and has economic value rather than
    being a drain on the society..

    Not gonna argue that one. Except the slaves did useful work

    True. I doubt people in traditional civilizations that were adverse to
    work lasted very long. Even the Soviets caught on:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ He_who_does_not_work,_neither_shall_he_eat#Soviet_Union

    It takes the modern Western welfare state to create a class of useless
    eaters.

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