On 06/08/2025 09:26, Nuno Silva wrote:
But when there are manufacturers which make printers so brittle thatThat will be the new biodegradeable plastics to satisfy the woke mob.
they'll have plastic bits breaking way before the spittoon gets full...
Apropos of woke, if you haven't seen it catch the new Sydney Sweeney
American Eagle Jeans advert and the furore surrounding it and the AI
parodies of it.
Its all a good laugh. And the jeans are apparently selling like hotcakes
and so is the companies stock...
My experience with inkjets not used frequently is that the nozzles
dry up or obstruct ...
And colour in lasers is just fine.
Apropos of woke, if you haven't seen it catch the new Sydney Sweeney
American Eagle Jeans advert and the furore surrounding it and the AI
parodies of it.
Its all a good laugh. And the jeans are apparently selling like
hotcakes and so is the companies stock...
On Wed, 6 Aug 2025 10:10:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Apropos of woke, if you haven't seen it catch the new Sydney Sweeney
American Eagle Jeans advert and the furore surrounding it and the AI
parodies of it.
Its all a good laugh. And the jeans are apparently selling like
hotcakes and so is the companies stock...
The jeans are made in all-America by all-American DNA-certified white workers, no doubt.
On 2025-08-08, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:--------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
On Mon, 4 Aug 2025 12:40:40 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
My experience with inkjets not used frequently is that the nozzles
dry up or obstruct ...
So I keep hearing, yet I have never encountered that happening to me.
Have your nozzles always been in the printers themselves? I can imagine
either that or wasting a lot of ink in frequent cleaning could keep that problem at bay.
Is the printer specced for so heavy paper from the main cassette in the
first place? Many printers I know can print on heavy paper only with the straight paper path.
All those printers were postscript capable, only needing a PPD. And
those are compatible with Windows. Never had an issue with that.
On Mon, 4 Aug 2025 12:40:40 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
My experience with inkjets not used frequently is that the nozzles
dry up or obstruct ...
So I keep hearing, yet I have never encountered that happening to me.
I asked the only guy in the company (it was profoundly sexist in a
way only a company run by a woman can be) ...
On Fri, 8 Aug 2025 22:10:50 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 6 Aug 2025 10:10:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Apropos of woke, if you haven't seen it catch the new Sydney Sweeney
American Eagle Jeans advert and the furore surrounding it and the AI
parodies of it.
Its all a good laugh. And the jeans are apparently selling like
hotcakes and so is the companies stock...
The jeans are made in all-America by all-American DNA-certified white
workers, no doubt.
I am certain the Silverman brothers would never resort to using cheap
labor in China, Vietnam, Bangladesh, and Mexico.
Once upon a time when unicorns roamed the earth the US actually
manufactured stuff. Capitalism only has one criterion -- profit.
On Tue, 05 Aug 2025 08:10:45 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
All those printers were postscript capable, only needing a PPD. And
those are compatible with Windows. Never had an issue with that.
Nowadays we seem to have “driverless” printing, but I’m not sure how that’s supposed to work? Maybe all the printers have standardized on accepting PDF files or something ...
At least from what I have been able to determine, it means CUPS
rasterizes the images on the host and then sends the uncompressed
rasterized image to the printer. Prior to "driverless", CUPs (or the
earlier system) would send PS to the printer (if the printer could take
PS or PCL).
Heh, heh ... consult the "Ferengi Rules Of Acquisition"
On Fri, 8 Aug 2025 22:54:35 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Heh, heh ... consult the "Ferengi Rules Of Acquisition"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition
"Unabridged and fully annotated with all 47 commentaries, all 900 major
and minor judgments, all 10,000 considered opinions. There's a rule for
every conceivable situation." There is also a note about The Unwritten
Rule: "When no appropriate rule applies... make one up."
Sounds like the Talmud.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
Nowadays we seem to have “driverless” printing, but I’m not sure how >> that’s supposed to work? Maybe all the printers have standardized on
accepting PDF files or something ...
At least from what I have been able to determine, it means CUPS
rasterizes the images on the host and then sends the uncompressed
rasterized image to the printer. Prior to "driverless", CUPs (or the
earlier system) would send PS to the printer (if the printer could
take PS or PCL).
Around 2000-2003, I could print a page from a web browser, have
first page in my hand within a few seconds, and then have the
rest of the pages usually as fast as the printer's paper path
could shovel the paper. Now with CUPS driverless, it's somewhere
around 15 seconds before I see the first page and another 15-20
seconds or so per duplexed pair of pages. Printing a 30-page
credit report can take several minutes rather than one or two.
On Tue, 05 Aug 2025 08:10:45 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
All those printers were postscript capable, only needing a PPD. And
those are compatible with Windows. Never had an issue with that.
Nowadays we seem to have “driverless” printing, but I’m not sure how >that’s supposed to work? Maybe all the printers have standardized on >accepting PDF files or something ...
On 2025-08-08, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 4 Aug 2025 12:40:40 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
My experience with inkjets not used frequently is that the nozzles
dry up or obstruct ...
So I keep hearing, yet I have never encountered that happening to me.
Have your nozzles always been in the printers themselves? I can imagine either that or wasting a lot of ink in frequent cleaning could keep that problem at bay.
On Fri, 8 Aug 2025 22:10:50 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 6 Aug 2025 10:10:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Apropos of woke, if you haven't seen it catch the new Sydney Sweeney
American Eagle Jeans advert and the furore surrounding it and the AI
parodies of it.
Its all a good laugh. And the jeans are apparently selling like
hotcakes and so is the companies stock...
The jeans are made in all-America by all-American DNA-certified white
workers, no doubt.
I am certain the Silverman brothers would never resort to using cheap
labor in China, Vietnam, Bangladesh, and Mexico.
Once upon a time when unicorns roamed the earth the US actually
manufactured stuff. Capitalism only has one criterion -- profit.
Robert Riches <[email protected]> writes:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
Nowadays we seem to have “driverless” printing, but I’m not sure how >>> that’s supposed to work? Maybe all the printers have standardized on
accepting PDF files or something ...
At least from what I have been able to determine, it means CUPS
rasterizes the images on the host and then sends the uncompressed
rasterized image to the printer. Prior to "driverless", CUPs (or the
earlier system) would send PS to the printer (if the printer could
take PS or PCL).
https://openprinting.github.io/driverless/01-standards-and-their-pdls/
The defining characteristic of ‘driverless’ seems to be that there is no separately delivered driver, and instead the printer’s properties are advertized over the network. All the variants listed support client-side rasterization, but they all include PDF as well, so I don’t think client-side rasterization is a defining property of it.
Around 2000-2003, I could print a page from a web browser, have
first page in my hand within a few seconds, and then have the
rest of the pages usually as fast as the printer's paper path
could shovel the paper. Now with CUPS driverless, it's somewhere
around 15 seconds before I see the first page and another 15-20
seconds or so per duplexed pair of pages. Printing a 30-page
credit report can take several minutes rather than one or two.
20 seconds to render a single page sounds excessive, unless you’re
printing something particularly complex. But I think that’s speculation
at this point. Investigating which driverless variant is in use and
whether the client is using much CPU during the delay might shed some
light on it.
On Mon, 4 Aug 2025 12:40:40 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
My experience with inkjets not used frequently is that the nozzles
dry up or obstruct ...
So I keep hearing, yet I have never encountered that happening to me.
And colour in lasers is just fine.
Do a side-by-side comparison, and you’ll see what I mean.
I am certain the Silverman brothers would never resort to using cheapWhat on earth has that got to do with it?
labor in China, Vietnam, Bangladesh, and Mexico.
Once upon a time when unicorns roamed the earth the US actually
manufactured stuff. Capitalism only has one criterion -- profit.
Not true, but not worth contesting your fundamentalist Marxism at this point..
On 09/08/2025 00:17, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-08-08, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:No. Lawrence's nozzles reside in his imagination. In the real world
On Mon, 4 Aug 2025 12:40:40 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
My experience with inkjets not used frequently is that the nozzles
dry up or obstruct ...
So I keep hearing, yet I have never encountered that happening to me.
Have your nozzles always been in the printers themselves? I can imagine
either that or wasting a lot of ink in frequent cleaning could keep
that problem at bay.
inkjet nozzles *always* clog.
He is the *only person ever* to have clog free nozzles.
Capitalism is generally Very Good. It DOES have certain systemic
flaws - as do all systems. The worst is obliviousness to positive
feedback loops.
Un-buffered, pure Randian, this leads to cyclic collapses that do
serious damage to all but a few.
I would need two printers for that. I had a laser printer with
cartridges which lasted more than three years. It's something I never
heard of for inkjets printers.
Le 08-08-2025, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> a écrit :
On Mon, 4 Aug 2025 12:40:40 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
My experience with inkjets not used frequently is that the nozzles
dry up or obstruct ...
So I keep hearing, yet I have never encountered that happening to me.
Everyone I know who had inkjets told me the same thing: if a cartridge
is too old, it dries.
On Fri, 8 Aug 2025 22:10:50 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 6 Aug 2025 10:10:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Apropos of woke, if you haven't seen it catch the new Sydney Sweeney
American Eagle Jeans advert and the furore surrounding it and the AI
parodies of it.
Its all a good laugh. And the jeans are apparently selling like
hotcakes and so is the companies stock...
The jeans are made in all-America by all-American DNA-certified white
workers, no doubt.
Of courese they aren't.
American Eagle arent purveying the message the woke brigade think they
are, in order to be deeply offended.
They are just selling jeans that's all.
Robert Riches <[email protected]> writes:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
Nowadays we seem to have “driverless” printing, but I’m not sure how >>> that’s supposed to work? Maybe all the printers have standardized on
accepting PDF files or something ...
At least from what I have been able to determine, it means CUPS
rasterizes the images on the host and then sends the uncompressed
rasterized image to the printer. Prior to "driverless", CUPs (or the
earlier system) would send PS to the printer (if the printer could
take PS or PCL).
https://openprinting.github.io/driverless/01-standards-and-their-pdls/
The defining characteristic of ‘driverless’ seems to be that there is no separately delivered driver, and instead the printer’s properties are advertized over the network. All the variants listed support client-side rasterization, but they all include PDF as well, so I don’t think client-side rasterization is a defining property of it.
Around 2000-2003, I could print a page from a web browser, have
first page in my hand within a few seconds, and then have the
rest of the pages usually as fast as the printer's paper path
could shovel the paper. Now with CUPS driverless, it's somewhere
around 15 seconds before I see the first page and another 15-20
seconds or so per duplexed pair of pages. Printing a 30-page
credit report can take several minutes rather than one or two.
20 seconds to render a single page sounds excessive, unless you’re
printing something particularly complex. But I think that’s speculation
at this point. Investigating which driverless variant is in use and
whether the client is using much CPU during the delay might shed some
light on it.
Richard Kettlewell <[email protected]d> wrote:[...]
https://openprinting.github.io/driverless/01-standards-and-their-pdls/
20 seconds to render a single page sounds excessive, unless you’re
printing something particularly complex. But I think that’s
speculation at this point. Investigating which driverless variant is
in use and whether the client is using much CPU during the delay
might shed some light on it.
Most of what I'm printing is not complex. I see the delay on
something as simple as a receipt for a payment on a utility
company's website. The amount of delay does not seem to be
highly dependent on the complexity of the page in question.
I don't know which driverless variant is in use. In fact, I
didn't know there were different variants. When I installed
Daedalus, I set up the print queues via the CUPS port 631 web
GUI.
During the ~15 seconds waiting for the page, xload doesn't report a noticeable jump in CPU use. The Noctua fans usually ramp up audibly
in response to a few seconds of a single CPU-bound process (but
nothing like for 16 CPU-bound processes), and they don't ramp up while waiting for a page to print. The symptoms seem to indicate that (most
of) the delay is sending the rasterized image over 100Mb/s ethernet to
the printer. In 2000-2003, a representative page might have 50KB of
PS/PCL but more than several MB (or tens/hundreds of MB depending on
the transfer format) of rasterized bits--especially if the printer's
network stack is sluggish.
Some concrete numbers:
Rendering an A4 text-based PDF to JPEG with pdftoppm takes about
0.1s/page on my i5-10210U. The resulting JPEGs range between 300Kbyte
and 530Kbyte each, i.e. up to a little over 4Mbit. That should take a fraction of a second per page to cross a 100Mbit/s network. Even with a shoddy network stack on one endpoint you’d have to really work at it to make it take 15 seconds.
On Sat, 9 Aug 2025 11:03:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am certain the Silverman brothers would never resort to using cheapWhat on earth has that got to do with it?
labor in China, Vietnam, Bangladesh, and Mexico.
The Silverman brothers are the founders of the American Eagle brand.
Sydney Sweeney reportedly was made in America but the rest of their stuff
is not.
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