• printer purchases

    From Popping Mad@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 3 03:49:11 2025
    I've had an excellent HP m551DN network and Duplex postfix color
    laserjet printer. It really died and needed servicing but servicing
    seemed to cost more money than replacement, assuming I could even get a
    call to the office.

    So I replaced it with a refurbished model from B&H Photo - the
    replacment being an m554DN. It sat for a couple of months, still boxed,
    in my office floor because it is just too heavy for me to recycle the
    old printer and set up the new one. I am really feeling old at this
    point.

    Unfortunately. the new refurnished one is not working. It has an error
    with the fuser 50.4F00 which implies some electrical problem. The paper
    tray is not lifting either. It cost me over $400 and at this point it
    seems worthless.

    I need a replacement printer, and you would think after almost 10 years
    that the technology might advance, but it doesn't seem to have. I need
    a color laser printer (just to print) and network ready (not wifi - and
    not depenent on cellphoes - I don't even OWN a cellphone). And I am
    struggling with a reasonable alternative. And these new HPs a locked
    into the cartilages. So I am very frustrated with the situation. They
    are twisting my arm so badly to force shit on my that I don't want that
    my arm is coming off at the shoulder.

    I am fielding suggestions.
    --
    So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
    that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
    proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
    http://www.mrbrklyn.com

    DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
    http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
    http://www.brooklyn-living.com

    Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
    but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From c186282@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 3 04:10:25 2025
    Screw inkjets ... invest in color laser.
    A little more up front, but much cheaper
    and more reliable downstream.

    Yes, the good inkjets are still better at
    ultra-high-qual photos ... but we're talking
    a relatively narrow segment here.

    Inkjets exist to BLEED you.

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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Aug 6 20:01:19 2025
    On Wed, 6 Aug 2025 10:10:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 06/08/2025 09:26, Nuno Silva wrote:
    But when there are manufacturers which make printers so brittle that
    they'll have plastic bits breaking way before the spittoon gets full...
    That will be the new biodegradeable plastics to satisfy the woke mob.

    Apropos of woke, if you haven't seen it catch the new Sydney Sweeney
    American Eagle Jeans advert and the furore surrounding it and the AI
    parodies of it.

    Its all a good laugh. And the jeans are apparently selling like hotcakes
    and so is the companies stock...

    It certainly was a better success than the thing Budweiser used to try to
    sell beer. I don't think the woke realize what percentage of the normies
    wish they would FOAD. Like little kids testing Mommy's limits they push
    and push until Mom introduces them to skin diving.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Smith

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Fri Aug 8 22:06:55 2025
    On Mon, 4 Aug 2025 12:40:40 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    My experience with inkjets not used frequently is that the nozzles
    dry up or obstruct ...

    So I keep hearing, yet I have never encountered that happening to me.

    And colour in lasers is just fine.

    Do a side-by-side comparison, and you’ll see what I mean.

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Fri Aug 8 22:10:50 2025
    On Wed, 6 Aug 2025 10:10:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    Apropos of woke, if you haven't seen it catch the new Sydney Sweeney
    American Eagle Jeans advert and the furore surrounding it and the AI
    parodies of it.

    Its all a good laugh. And the jeans are apparently selling like
    hotcakes and so is the companies stock...

    The jeans are made in all-America by all-American DNA-certified white
    workers, no doubt.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Sat Aug 9 00:05:04 2025
    On Fri, 8 Aug 2025 22:10:50 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    On Wed, 6 Aug 2025 10:10:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    Apropos of woke, if you haven't seen it catch the new Sydney Sweeney
    American Eagle Jeans advert and the furore surrounding it and the AI
    parodies of it.

    Its all a good laugh. And the jeans are apparently selling like
    hotcakes and so is the companies stock...

    The jeans are made in all-America by all-American DNA-certified white workers, no doubt.

    I am certain the Silverman brothers would never resort to using cheap
    labor in China, Vietnam, Bangladesh, and Mexico.

    Once upon a time when unicorns roamed the earth the US actually
    manufactured stuff. Capitalism only has one criterion -- profit.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Nuno Silva@21:1/5 to Nuno Silva on Sat Aug 9 00:33:40 2025
    On 2025-08-09, Nuno Silva wrote:

    On 2025-08-08, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    On Mon, 4 Aug 2025 12:40:40 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    My experience with inkjets not used frequently is that the nozzles
    dry up or obstruct ...

    So I keep hearing, yet I have never encountered that happening to me.

    Have your nozzles always been in the printers themselves? I can imagine
    --------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    I meant "in the *cartridges* themselves" here, sorry for the mess-up.


    either that or wasting a lot of ink in frequent cleaning could keep that problem at bay.

    --
    Nuno Silva

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Marc Haber on Sat Aug 9 00:15:11 2025
    On Tue, 05 Aug 2025 08:10:04 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

    Is the printer specced for so heavy paper from the main cassette in the
    first place? Many printers I know can print on heavy paper only with the straight paper path.

    Like the legendary Canon LBP-CX engine, that was the basis for both the
    first Apple LaserWriter and the first HP LaserJet.

    The downside of the straight paper path is the pages end up stacked in
    reverse of printing order.

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Marc Haber on Sat Aug 9 00:13:34 2025
    On Tue, 05 Aug 2025 08:10:45 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

    All those printers were postscript capable, only needing a PPD. And
    those are compatible with Windows. Never had an issue with that.

    Nowadays we seem to have “driverless” printing, but I’m not sure how that’s supposed to work? Maybe all the printers have standardized on accepting PDF files or something ...

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  • From Nuno Silva@21:1/5 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Sat Aug 9 00:17:43 2025
    On 2025-08-08, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    On Mon, 4 Aug 2025 12:40:40 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    My experience with inkjets not used frequently is that the nozzles
    dry up or obstruct ...

    So I keep hearing, yet I have never encountered that happening to me.

    Have your nozzles always been in the printers themselves? I can imagine
    either that or wasting a lot of ink in frequent cleaning could keep that problem at bay.

    --
    Nuno Silva

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Aug 9 00:19:36 2025
    On Tue, 5 Aug 2025 10:49:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    I asked the only guy in the company (it was profoundly sexist in a
    way only a company run by a woman can be) ...

    Or at least, you assumed that was a “guy” you were talking to, addicted to binary assumptions as you are ...

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  • From c186282@21:1/5 to rbowman on Fri Aug 8 22:54:35 2025
    On 8/8/25 8:05 PM, rbowman wrote:
    On Fri, 8 Aug 2025 22:10:50 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    On Wed, 6 Aug 2025 10:10:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    Apropos of woke, if you haven't seen it catch the new Sydney Sweeney
    American Eagle Jeans advert and the furore surrounding it and the AI
    parodies of it.

    Its all a good laugh. And the jeans are apparently selling like
    hotcakes and so is the companies stock...

    The jeans are made in all-America by all-American DNA-certified white
    workers, no doubt.

    I am certain the Silverman brothers would never resort to using cheap
    labor in China, Vietnam, Bangladesh, and Mexico.

    Once upon a time when unicorns roamed the earth the US actually
    manufactured stuff. Capitalism only has one criterion -- profit.


    Heh, heh ... consult the "Ferengi Rules Of Acquisition" :-)

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  • From Robert Riches@21:1/5 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Sat Aug 9 03:49:33 2025
    On 2025-08-09, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Tue, 05 Aug 2025 08:10:45 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

    All those printers were postscript capable, only needing a PPD. And
    those are compatible with Windows. Never had an issue with that.

    Nowadays we seem to have “driverless” printing, but I’m not sure how that’s supposed to work? Maybe all the printers have standardized on accepting PDF files or something ...

    At least from what I have been able to determine, it means CUPS
    rasterizes the images on the host and then sends the uncompressed
    rasterized image to the printer. Prior to "driverless", CUPs (or
    the earlier system) would send PS to the printer (if the printer
    could take PS or PCL).

    Around 2000-2003, I could print a page from a web browser, have
    first page in my hand within a few seconds, and then have the
    rest of the pages usually as fast as the printer's paper path
    could shovel the paper. Now with CUPS driverless, it's somewhere
    around 15 seconds before I see the first page and another 15-20
    seconds or so per duplexed pair of pages. Printing a 30-page
    credit report can take several minutes rather than one or two.

    My current system runs Devuan Daedalus on an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
    8-Core Processor, 64GB of ECC RAM, and a Brother HL-L2360DW
    printer. The host system itself is well over an order of
    magnitude faster than the Alpha machine I used in 2000-2003.

    --
    Robert Riches
    [email protected]
    (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Robert Riches on Sat Aug 9 04:36:45 2025
    On 9 Aug 2025 03:49:33 GMT, Robert Riches wrote:

    At least from what I have been able to determine, it means CUPS
    rasterizes the images on the host and then sends the uncompressed
    rasterized image to the printer. Prior to "driverless", CUPs (or the
    earlier system) would send PS to the printer (if the printer could take
    PS or PCL).

    Our print interface sniffed at the file. If it was PS it checked the
    printer's capabilities. If it wasn't a PS printer, it shelled out to Ghostscript and then sent the rasterized file to the printer.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostscript

    Long way around the barn but some of the upstream apps used nnscript to
    add headers, footers, landscape mode and so forth to reports, some only
    did straight ASCII reports.

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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 9 04:27:43 2025
    On Fri, 8 Aug 2025 22:54:35 -0400, c186282 wrote:

    Heh, heh ... consult the "Ferengi Rules Of Acquisition"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition

    "Unabridged and fully annotated with all 47 commentaries, all 900 major
    and minor judgments, all 10,000 considered opinions. There's a rule for
    every conceivable situation." There is also a note about The Unwritten
    Rule: "When no appropriate rule applies... make one up."

    Sounds like the Talmud.

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  • From c186282@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sat Aug 9 01:37:12 2025
    On 8/9/25 12:27 AM, rbowman wrote:
    On Fri, 8 Aug 2025 22:54:35 -0400, c186282 wrote:

    Heh, heh ... consult the "Ferengi Rules Of Acquisition"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition

    "Unabridged and fully annotated with all 47 commentaries, all 900 major
    and minor judgments, all 10,000 considered opinions. There's a rule for
    every conceivable situation." There is also a note about The Unwritten
    Rule: "When no appropriate rule applies... make one up."

    Sounds like the Talmud.

    Tisk !

    All in all, it describes the ultra-capitalist
    point of view. Probably writ by cynical lefties :-)

    Capitalism is generally Very Good. It DOES have
    certain systemic flaws - as do all systems. The
    worst is obliviousness to positive feedback loops.
    Un-buffered, pure Randian, this leads to cyclic
    collapses that do serious damage to all but a few.

    MAYbe tolerable in the larger world of the 1800s, but
    not now in a far more global economic/power/defense
    picture.

    The recent, and now again incipent, property-value
    'bubble' implosion is an example of what happens
    with unbuffered capitalism.

    So ... add a few buffers. You don't have to compromise
    the entire concept - just add a few wise safety measures
    and KNOW WHEN not to add TOO MANY "measures". THAT wisdom,
    alas, is in short supply - seems to often trend towards
    'socialism' or even 'Marxism' and all their destructive
    evils. Biz/markets should always be a bit "cowboy".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Richard Kettlewell@21:1/5 to Robert Riches on Sat Aug 9 09:12:00 2025
    Robert Riches <[email protected]> writes:
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:

    Nowadays we seem to have “driverless” printing, but I’m not sure how >> that’s supposed to work? Maybe all the printers have standardized on
    accepting PDF files or something ...

    At least from what I have been able to determine, it means CUPS
    rasterizes the images on the host and then sends the uncompressed
    rasterized image to the printer. Prior to "driverless", CUPs (or the
    earlier system) would send PS to the printer (if the printer could
    take PS or PCL).

    https://openprinting.github.io/driverless/01-standards-and-their-pdls/

    The defining characteristic of ‘driverless’ seems to be that there is no separately delivered driver, and instead the printer’s properties are advertized over the network. All the variants listed support client-side rasterization, but they all include PDF as well, so I don’t think
    client-side rasterization is a defining property of it.

    Around 2000-2003, I could print a page from a web browser, have
    first page in my hand within a few seconds, and then have the
    rest of the pages usually as fast as the printer's paper path
    could shovel the paper. Now with CUPS driverless, it's somewhere
    around 15 seconds before I see the first page and another 15-20
    seconds or so per duplexed pair of pages. Printing a 30-page
    credit report can take several minutes rather than one or two.

    20 seconds to render a single page sounds excessive, unless you’re
    printing something particularly complex. But I think that’s speculation
    at this point. Investigating which driverless variant is in use and
    whether the client is using much CPU during the delay might shed some
    light on it.

    --
    https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Marc Haber@21:1/5 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Sat Aug 9 11:31:49 2025
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On Tue, 05 Aug 2025 08:10:45 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

    All those printers were postscript capable, only needing a PPD. And
    those are compatible with Windows. Never had an issue with that.

    Nowadays we seem to have “driverless” printing, but I’m not sure how >that’s supposed to work? Maybe all the printers have standardized on >accepting PDF files or something ...

    "Driverless Printing" is somehow related to Apple's AirPrint. As far
    as I understand this, the printer uses mdns to announce its presence
    and its capabilities, with the capabilities taken from a catalog that
    is in the standard. the client is then expected to deliver the content
    in one of those formats. I guess that in these days, PDF is the
    dominant format.

    Greetings
    Marc
    --
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
    Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Nuno Silva on Sat Aug 9 11:00:15 2025
    On 09/08/2025 00:17, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2025-08-08, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    On Mon, 4 Aug 2025 12:40:40 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    My experience with inkjets not used frequently is that the nozzles
    dry up or obstruct ...

    So I keep hearing, yet I have never encountered that happening to me.

    Have your nozzles always been in the printers themselves? I can imagine either that or wasting a lot of ink in frequent cleaning could keep that problem at bay.

    No. Lawrence's nozzles reside in his imagination. In the real world
    inkjet nozzles *always* clog.

    He is the *only person ever* to have clog free nozzles.


    --
    “The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to
    fill the world with fools.”

    Herbert Spencer

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sat Aug 9 11:03:29 2025
    On 09/08/2025 01:05, rbowman wrote:
    On Fri, 8 Aug 2025 22:10:50 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    On Wed, 6 Aug 2025 10:10:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    Apropos of woke, if you haven't seen it catch the new Sydney Sweeney
    American Eagle Jeans advert and the furore surrounding it and the AI
    parodies of it.

    Its all a good laugh. And the jeans are apparently selling like
    hotcakes and so is the companies stock...

    The jeans are made in all-America by all-American DNA-certified white
    workers, no doubt.


    Of courese they aren't.

    American Eagle arent purveying the message the woke brigade think they
    are, in order to be deeply offended.
    They are just selling jeans that's all.

    I am certain the Silverman brothers would never resort to using cheap
    labor in China, Vietnam, Bangladesh, and Mexico.

    What on earth has that got to do with it?

    Once upon a time when unicorns roamed the earth the US actually
    manufactured stuff. Capitalism only has one criterion -- profit.

    Not true, but not worth contesting your fundamentalist Marxism at this
    point..


    --
    “But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an hypothesis!”

    Mary Wollstonecraft

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Richard Kettlewell on Sat Aug 9 11:08:03 2025
    On 09/08/2025 09:12, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    Robert Riches <[email protected]> writes:
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:

    Nowadays we seem to have “driverless” printing, but I’m not sure how >>> that’s supposed to work? Maybe all the printers have standardized on
    accepting PDF files or something ...

    At least from what I have been able to determine, it means CUPS
    rasterizes the images on the host and then sends the uncompressed
    rasterized image to the printer. Prior to "driverless", CUPs (or the
    earlier system) would send PS to the printer (if the printer could
    take PS or PCL).

    https://openprinting.github.io/driverless/01-standards-and-their-pdls/

    The defining characteristic of ‘driverless’ seems to be that there is no separately delivered driver, and instead the printer’s properties are advertized over the network. All the variants listed support client-side rasterization, but they all include PDF as well, so I don’t think client-side rasterization is a defining property of it.

    Around 2000-2003, I could print a page from a web browser, have
    first page in my hand within a few seconds, and then have the
    rest of the pages usually as fast as the printer's paper path
    could shovel the paper. Now with CUPS driverless, it's somewhere
    around 15 seconds before I see the first page and another 15-20
    seconds or so per duplexed pair of pages. Printing a 30-page
    credit report can take several minutes rather than one or two.

    20 seconds to render a single page sounds excessive, unless you’re
    printing something particularly complex. But I think that’s speculation
    at this point. Investigating which driverless variant is in use and
    whether the client is using much CPU during the delay might shed some
    light on it.

    AFAIK if your printer talks postcript then you can (for text) send the
    font to it, if the font is available on your system or is embedded in
    the document.
    That is a significant speed up.

    Fully rastersing a page is not especially efficient.

    --
    The higher up the mountainside
    The greener grows the grass.
    The higher up the monkey climbs
    The more he shows his arse.

    Traditional

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane?= CARPENTIE@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 9 14:04:08 2025
    Le 08-08-2025, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> a écrit :
    On Mon, 4 Aug 2025 12:40:40 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    My experience with inkjets not used frequently is that the nozzles
    dry up or obstruct ...

    So I keep hearing, yet I have never encountered that happening to me.

    Everyone I know who had inkjets told me the same thing: if a cartridge
    is too old, it dries.

    And colour in lasers is just fine.

    Do a side-by-side comparison, and you’ll see what I mean.

    I would need two printers for that. I had a laser printer with
    cartridges which lasted more than three years. It's something I never
    heard of for inkjets printers.

    --
    Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
    https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Aug 9 21:12:05 2025
    On Sat, 9 Aug 2025 11:03:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


    I am certain the Silverman brothers would never resort to using cheap
    labor in China, Vietnam, Bangladesh, and Mexico.

    What on earth has that got to do with it?

    The Silverman brothers are the founders of the American Eagle brand.
    Sydney Sweeney reportedly was made in America but the rest of their stuff
    is not.


    Once upon a time when unicorns roamed the earth the US actually
    manufactured stuff. Capitalism only has one criterion -- profit.

    Not true, but not worth contesting your fundamentalist Marxism at this point..

    You do realize there is a third position between capitalism and Marxian socialism? Foolish question; you don't.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Sat Aug 9 21:02:21 2025
    On Sat, 9 Aug 2025 11:00:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 09/08/2025 00:17, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2025-08-08, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    On Mon, 4 Aug 2025 12:40:40 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    My experience with inkjets not used frequently is that the nozzles
    dry up or obstruct ...

    So I keep hearing, yet I have never encountered that happening to me.

    Have your nozzles always been in the printers themselves? I can imagine
    either that or wasting a lot of ink in frequent cleaning could keep
    that problem at bay.

    No. Lawrence's nozzles reside in his imagination. In the real world
    inkjet nozzles *always* clog.

    He is the *only person ever* to have clog free nozzles.

    I have enough of a familiarity with ammonia and toothbrushes to call
    bullshit on his clog free nozzles. Perhaps if you print almost daily they
    might work but I print very infrequently.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 9 21:00:24 2025
    On Sat, 9 Aug 2025 01:37:12 -0400, c186282 wrote:

    Capitalism is generally Very Good. It DOES have certain systemic
    flaws - as do all systems. The worst is obliviousness to positive
    feedback loops.
    Un-buffered, pure Randian, this leads to cyclic collapses that do
    serious damage to all but a few.

    https://futurism.com/ai-bubble-pops-entire-economy

    "Renaissance Macro Research head of economic research Neil Dutta also
    shared an astonishing statistic with the WSJ: that capital expenditures
    for AI have contributed more to the growth of the US economy so far this
    year than all of consumer spending combined."

    If that is an accurate assessment, it's scary as hell.

    “The problem with capitalism is not too many capitalists, but not enough capitalists.”

    G.k. Chesterton

    Capitalism and communism both treat man as an economic object and
    disregard tradition, duty, honor, and so on. for whatever reason I feel
    more comfortable with the Continental intellectual tradition starting with Sturm und Drang than the Anglo-American.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 9 21:15:00 2025
    On 09 Aug 2025 14:04:08 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

    I would need two printers for that. I had a laser printer with
    cartridges which lasted more than three years. It's something I never
    heard of for inkjets printers.

    I've had a Samsung laser for probably 10 years or more. It needs a good cleaning but the last time I used it it produced a legible page with the original cartridges.

    My last inkjet hit the land fill about 20 years ago.

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 10 01:56:49 2025
    On 09 Aug 2025 14:04:08 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

    Le 08-08-2025, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> a écrit :

    On Mon, 4 Aug 2025 12:40:40 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    My experience with inkjets not used frequently is that the nozzles
    dry up or obstruct ...

    So I keep hearing, yet I have never encountered that happening to me.

    Everyone I know who had inkjets told me the same thing: if a cartridge
    is too old, it dries.

    Well, now I’m telling you different.

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Sun Aug 10 01:59:52 2025
    On Sat, 9 Aug 2025 11:03:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On Fri, 8 Aug 2025 22:10:50 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    On Wed, 6 Aug 2025 10:10:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    Apropos of woke, if you haven't seen it catch the new Sydney Sweeney
    American Eagle Jeans advert and the furore surrounding it and the AI
    parodies of it.

    Its all a good laugh. And the jeans are apparently selling like
    hotcakes and so is the companies stock...

    The jeans are made in all-America by all-American DNA-certified white
    workers, no doubt.

    Of courese they aren't.

    American Eagle arent purveying the message the woke brigade think they
    are, in order to be deeply offended.
    They are just selling jeans that's all.

    Sure they are, and there’s nothing to laugh slyly about, is there? They
    make a point on two different levels, confident that their target
    customers will pick up on one but not the other.

    They have the intellectual level of those customers pegged pretty well,
    don’t you think?

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  • From Robert Riches@21:1/5 to Richard Kettlewell on Sun Aug 10 03:19:42 2025
    On 2025-08-09, Richard Kettlewell <[email protected]d> wrote:
    Robert Riches <[email protected]> writes:
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:

    Nowadays we seem to have “driverless” printing, but I’m not sure how >>> that’s supposed to work? Maybe all the printers have standardized on
    accepting PDF files or something ...

    At least from what I have been able to determine, it means CUPS
    rasterizes the images on the host and then sends the uncompressed
    rasterized image to the printer. Prior to "driverless", CUPs (or the
    earlier system) would send PS to the printer (if the printer could
    take PS or PCL).

    https://openprinting.github.io/driverless/01-standards-and-their-pdls/

    The defining characteristic of ‘driverless’ seems to be that there is no separately delivered driver, and instead the printer’s properties are advertized over the network. All the variants listed support client-side rasterization, but they all include PDF as well, so I don’t think client-side rasterization is a defining property of it.

    Around 2000-2003, I could print a page from a web browser, have
    first page in my hand within a few seconds, and then have the
    rest of the pages usually as fast as the printer's paper path
    could shovel the paper. Now with CUPS driverless, it's somewhere
    around 15 seconds before I see the first page and another 15-20
    seconds or so per duplexed pair of pages. Printing a 30-page
    credit report can take several minutes rather than one or two.

    20 seconds to render a single page sounds excessive, unless you’re
    printing something particularly complex. But I think that’s speculation
    at this point. Investigating which driverless variant is in use and
    whether the client is using much CPU during the delay might shed some
    light on it.

    Most of what I'm printing is not complex. I see the delay on
    something as simple as a receipt for a payment on a utility
    company's website. The amount of delay does not seem to be
    highly dependent on the complexity of the page in question.

    I don't know which driverless variant is in use. In fact, I
    didn't know there were different variants. When I installed
    Daedalus, I set up the print queues via the CUPS port 631 web
    GUI.

    During the ~15 seconds waiting for the page, xload doesn't report
    a noticeable jump in CPU use. The Noctua fans usually ramp up
    audibly in response to a few seconds of a single CPU-bound
    process (but nothing like for 16 CPU-bound processes), and they
    don't ramp up while waiting for a page to print. The symptoms
    seem to indicate that (most of) the delay is sending the
    rasterized image over 100Mb/s ethernet to the printer. In
    2000-2003, a representative page might have 50KB of PS/PCL but
    more than several MB (or tens/hundreds of MB depending on the
    transfer format) of rasterized bits--especially if the printer's
    network stack is sluggish.

    Come to think of it, I could shed some light by running dstat
    while waiting for a page to print. I'll try to do that if I get
    an opportunity. Thanks for the idea.

    --
    Robert Riches
    [email protected]
    (Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

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  • From Richard Kettlewell@21:1/5 to Robert Riches on Sun Aug 10 09:43:38 2025
    Robert Riches <[email protected]> writes:
    Richard Kettlewell <[email protected]d> wrote:
    https://openprinting.github.io/driverless/01-standards-and-their-pdls/
    [...]
    20 seconds to render a single page sounds excessive, unless you’re
    printing something particularly complex. But I think that’s
    speculation at this point. Investigating which driverless variant is
    in use and whether the client is using much CPU during the delay
    might shed some light on it.

    Most of what I'm printing is not complex. I see the delay on
    something as simple as a receipt for a payment on a utility
    company's website. The amount of delay does not seem to be
    highly dependent on the complexity of the page in question.

    I don't know which driverless variant is in use. In fact, I
    didn't know there were different variants. When I installed
    Daedalus, I set up the print queues via the CUPS port 631 web
    GUI.

    If it wasn’t CUPS I’d suggest trying to figure out what it was using,
    but last time I tried to figure out what CUPS was doing internally was
    not a happy experience, and I hesitate to recommend you inflict that
    upon yourself.

    During the ~15 seconds waiting for the page, xload doesn't report a noticeable jump in CPU use. The Noctua fans usually ramp up audibly
    in response to a few seconds of a single CPU-bound process (but
    nothing like for 16 CPU-bound processes), and they don't ramp up while waiting for a page to print. The symptoms seem to indicate that (most
    of) the delay is sending the rasterized image over 100Mb/s ethernet to
    the printer. In 2000-2003, a representative page might have 50KB of
    PS/PCL but more than several MB (or tens/hundreds of MB depending on
    the transfer format) of rasterized bits--especially if the printer's
    network stack is sluggish.

    Some concrete numbers:

    Rendering an A4 text-based PDF to JPEG with pdftoppm takes about
    0.1s/page on my i5-10210U. The resulting JPEGs range between 300Kbyte
    and 530Kbyte each, i.e. up to a little over 4Mbit. That should take a
    fraction of a second per page to cross a 100Mbit/s network. Even with a
    shoddy network stack on one endpoint you’d have to really work at it to
    make it take 15 seconds.

    If I ask for (uncompressed) PPMs instead I get 26Mbyte per page,
    i.e. about 2Gbit. 15-20s to cross a 100Mbit/s network wouldn’t be
    surprising. Even a gigabit network would need a couple of seconds.

    However none of the driverless options listed on the CUPS website list
    any formats that I recognize as uncompressed[1], so I think something
    has gone quite badly wrong if this is the issue. (They do list JPEG
    which is why I chose that.)

    Using tcpdump or wireshark to monitor network traffic between client and printer could give you some sense of whether we’re on the right track
    here. If packets are streaming past at speed for 15 seconds then we’re probably looking at a bad choice of transfer format, if the connection
    is mostly idle then we’re looking at something else.

    [1] it would be an absolutely bizarre design choice to using an
    uncompressed transfer format.

    --
    https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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  • From Richard Kettlewell@21:1/5 to Richard Kettlewell on Sun Aug 10 09:45:03 2025
    Richard Kettlewell <[email protected]d> writes:
    Some concrete numbers:

    Rendering an A4 text-based PDF to JPEG with pdftoppm takes about
    0.1s/page on my i5-10210U. The resulting JPEGs range between 300Kbyte

    ...at 300DPI, to match a common printer resolution...

    and 530Kbyte each, i.e. up to a little over 4Mbit. That should take a fraction of a second per page to cross a 100Mbit/s network. Even with a shoddy network stack on one endpoint you’d have to really work at it to make it take 15 seconds.

    --
    https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sun Aug 10 10:19:02 2025
    On 09/08/2025 22:12, rbowman wrote:
    On Sat, 9 Aug 2025 11:03:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


    I am certain the Silverman brothers would never resort to using cheap
    labor in China, Vietnam, Bangladesh, and Mexico.

    What on earth has that got to do with it?

    The Silverman brothers are the founders of the American Eagle brand.
    Sydney Sweeney reportedly was made in America but the rest of their stuff
    is not.

    So what? I wasn't making a point about it being an all American product,
    and neither was the advert.

    The woke left turned it into that, and you are singing from their hymn sheet





    --
    To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

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