• Odd - China Building "Space Supercomputer"

    From c186282@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 2 22:20:21 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc, alt.space, alt.science
    XPost: alt.defense

    https://greekreporter.com/2025/06/03/china-world-first-supercomputer-space/

    China has begun building what could become the world’s
    first supercomputer in space. On May 14, a Long March 2D
    rocket launched from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center,
    carrying 12 advanced satellites into orbit.

    This marks the first phase of a larger effort to deploy
    a space-based computing system capable of processing
    massive amounts of data without relying on Earth-based
    infrastructure. Led by ADA Space and Zhejiang Lab, the
    project aims to build a 2,800-satellite network known
    as the Three-Body Computing Constellation.

    Designed to perform high-speed data processing directly
    in orbit, the constellation represents a major shift in
    how artificial intelligence may be deployed beyond
    Earth—and signals China’s growing lead in the race
    to bring supercomputing power to space.

    . . .

    This is kind of strange ...

    Not entirely sure of the POINT in building anything
    quite like this in orbit.

    SOUNDS like they're implementing a distributed computing
    setup, with each sat as a 'motherbox' of a sort ... and
    the overall OS will be able to use on or many to do a
    given task. This kind of cluster computing is perfectly
    common on the ground (think Google runs on ONE box ?)
    but in SPACE, with the inherent delays between the
    nodes, VERY weird.

    'AI' ... maybe some kind of "global mind" is imagined ?

    'Security' ... it WOULD be hard to take out a LOT of
    these things in orbit. Take out a few, the system
    just runs a little slower, but still runs.

    China sometimes "thinks differently". Anybody got a
    clue WHY they'd want to invest so much in this ???
    It is beyond 'StarLink' in potential, yet does not
    seem to be a simple internet system like StarLink.

    Hmm ... does it run on Plan-9 ? That was meant for
    this sort of computing long back - and it's free,
    if you wanna deal with its oddness. RHEL is also
    commonly used for these sorts of clusters.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jason H@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 3 19:06:02 2025
    On 03/06/2025 03:20, c186282 wrote: >https://greekreporter.com/2025/06/03/china-world-first-supercomputer-space/

    China has begun building what could become the world’s
    first supercomputer in space. On May 14, a Long March 2D
    rocket launched from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center,
    carrying 12 advanced satellites into orbit.

    This marks the first phase of a larger effort to deploy
    a space-based computing system capable of processing
    massive amounts of data without relying on Earth-based
    infrastructure. Led by ADA Space and Zhejiang Lab, the
    project aims to build a 2,800-satellite network known
    as the Three-Body Computing Constellation.

    Designed to perform high-speed data processing directly
    in orbit, the constellation represents a major shift in
    how artificial intelligence may be deployed beyond
    Earth—and signals China’s growing lead in the race
    to bring supercomputing power to space.

    . . .

    This is kind of strange ...

    Not entirely sure of the POINT in building anything
    quite like this in orbit.

    SOUNDS like they're implementing a distributed computing
    setup, with each sat as a 'motherbox' of a sort ... and
    the overall OS will be able to use on or many to do a
    given task. This kind of cluster computing is perfectly
    common on the ground (think Google runs on ONE box ?)
    but in SPACE, with the inherent delays between the
    nodes, VERY weird.

    'AI' ... maybe some kind of "global mind" is imagined ?

    'Security' ... it WOULD be hard to take out a LOT of
    these things in orbit. Take out a few, the system
    just runs a little slower, but still runs.

    China sometimes "thinks differently". Anybody got a
    clue WHY they'd want to invest so much in this ???
    It is beyond 'StarLink' in potential, yet does not
    seem to be a simple internet system like StarLink.

    Hmm ... does it run on Plan-9 ? That was meant for
    this sort of computing long back - and it's free,
    if you wanna deal with its oddness. RHEL is also
    commonly used for these sorts of clusters.


    Unlimited solar power?

    --
    A PICKER OF UNCONSIDERED TRIFLES

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Narkiewicz@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 4 08:13:47 2025
    On 03/06/2025 03:20, c186282 wrote:
    Unlimited solar power?

    Probably preparing foundational technology to push deeper into space.
    At certain distance, latency to ground DC becomes a problem.

    There are some interesting large-scale reliability issues to resolve
    here, mainly radiation tolerance and cooling.

    Best regards,
    Chris Narkiewicz

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to Chris Narkiewicz on Wed Jun 4 04:09:49 2025
    On 6/4/25 3:13 AM, Chris Narkiewicz wrote:
    On 03/06/2025 03:20, c186282 wrote:
    Unlimited solar power?

    Probably preparing foundational technology to push deeper into space.
    At certain distance, latency to ground DC becomes a problem.

    There are some interesting large-scale reliability issues to resolve
    here, mainly radiation tolerance and cooling.

    Best regards,
    Chris Narkiewicz

    As best I an analyze ... THIS cluster is actually
    intended to be a huge in-orbit supercomputer cluster
    sort of thing. GROUND interface, maybe secondary.

    Both RHEL extensions and Plan-9 support this.

    There MAY be aggressive intent here.

    A kind of literal "global mind" looking down
    on us all - but with a a ChiCom bias .....

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Computer Nerd Kev@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jun 4 17:56:21 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    [ snip alt. groups that the news server I use doesn't know about ]

    In comp.os.linux.misc c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://greekreporter.com/2025/06/03/china-world-first-supercomputer-space/

    China has begun building what could become the world's
    first supercomputer in space. On May 14, a Long March 2D
    rocket launched from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center,
    carrying 12 advanced satellites into orbit.
    . . .

    This is kind of strange ...

    Not entirely sure of the POINT in building anything
    quite like this in orbit.

    SOUNDS like they're implementing a distributed computing
    setup, with each sat as a 'motherbox' of a sort ... and
    the overall OS will be able to use on or many to do a
    given task. This kind of cluster computing is perfectly
    common on the ground (think Google runs on ONE box ?)
    but in SPACE, with the inherent delays between the
    nodes, VERY weird.

    Optical communication works in space without fibre-optics so I'm
    not sure why inter-satellite communication delays would be an
    issue.

    See this article: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3990472/china-takes-edge-computing-to-orbit-with-first-space-based-processing-network.html

    They expect link speeds to match fibre-optics, and avoid the round
    trip of Earth -> space -> Earth -> Space -> Earth which satellite
    internet networks currently encounter. I was already wondering if
    something like this would happen - something like Starlink offering on-satellite VPSs, but of course everything's AI-focused now while
    that hype train is still rolling.

    The other thing I was wondering, which the that article also touches
    on, is the legal aspect. Already satellite internet allows people to
    circumvent content restrictions imposed on terrestrial ISPs in their
    country to browse foreign websites. If illegal content like pirated
    videos is hosted in space, can anyone force it to be taken down?
    Could we get a contellation of pirate and porn satellites that
    operate outside the law (assuming the law can be tricked into
    letting them get launched)? What if a satellite-server gets hacked?
    There's nobody up there to pull the plug, access to it could be
    traded illegally for the rest of its lifetime. If a whole
    constellation got hacked that could really ammount to something.

    Or is this finally a commercial use for space stations - somewhere
    that the orbiting internet can be fixed from?

    --
    __ __
    #_ < |\| |< _#

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to Computer Nerd Kev on Wed Jun 4 04:15:41 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    On 6/4/25 3:56 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    [ snip alt. groups that the news server I use doesn't know about ]

    In comp.os.linux.misc c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://greekreporter.com/2025/06/03/china-world-first-supercomputer-space/ >>
    China has begun building what could become the world's
    first supercomputer in space. On May 14, a Long March 2D
    rocket launched from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center,
    carrying 12 advanced satellites into orbit.
    . . .

    This is kind of strange ...

    Not entirely sure of the POINT in building anything
    quite like this in orbit.

    SOUNDS like they're implementing a distributed computing
    setup, with each sat as a 'motherbox' of a sort ... and
    the overall OS will be able to use on or many to do a
    given task. This kind of cluster computing is perfectly
    common on the ground (think Google runs on ONE box ?)
    but in SPACE, with the inherent delays between the
    nodes, VERY weird.

    Optical communication works in space without fibre-optics so I'm
    not sure why inter-satellite communication delays would be an
    issue.

    See this article: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3990472/china-takes-edge-computing-to-orbit-with-first-space-based-processing-network.html

    They expect link speeds to match fibre-optics, and avoid the round
    trip of Earth -> space -> Earth -> Space -> Earth which satellite
    internet networks currently encounter. I was already wondering if
    something like this would happen - something like Starlink offering on-satellite VPSs, but of course everything's AI-focused now while
    that hype train is still rolling.

    The other thing I was wondering, which the that article also touches
    on, is the legal aspect. Already satellite internet allows people to circumvent content restrictions imposed on terrestrial ISPs in their
    country to browse foreign websites. If illegal content like pirated
    videos is hosted in space, can anyone force it to be taken down?
    Could we get a contellation of pirate and porn satellites that
    operate outside the law (assuming the law can be tricked into
    letting them get launched)? What if a satellite-server gets hacked?
    There's nobody up there to pull the plug, access to it could be
    traded illegally for the rest of its lifetime. If a whole
    constellation got hacked that could really ammount to something.

    Or is this finally a commercial use for space stations - somewhere
    that the orbiting internet can be fixed from?


    My concern is not with the underlying TECH- but
    the underlying INTENT.

    You don't invest THIS much without INTENT.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Jason H on Wed Jun 4 11:39:29 2025
    On 03/06/2025 20:06, Jason H wrote:
    On 03/06/2025 03:20, c186282 wrote:
    https://greekreporter.com/2025/06/03/china-world-first-supercomputer-space/ >>
    China has begun building what could become the world’s
    first supercomputer in space. On May 14, a Long March 2D
    rocket launched from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center,
    carrying 12 advanced satellites into orbit.

    This marks the first phase of a larger effort to deploy
    a space-based computing system capable of processing
    massive amounts of data without relying on Earth-based
    infrastructure. Led by ADA Space and Zhejiang Lab, the
    project aims to build a 2,800-satellite network known
    as the Three-Body Computing Constellation.

    Designed to perform high-speed data processing directly
    in orbit, the constellation represents a major shift in
    how artificial intelligence may be deployed beyond
    Earth—and signals China’s growing lead in the race
    to bring supercomputing power to space.

    . . .

      This is kind of strange ...

      Not entirely sure of the POINT in building anything
      quite like this in orbit.

      SOUNDS like they're implementing a distributed computing
      setup, with each sat as a 'motherbox' of a sort ... and
      the overall OS will be able to use on or many to do a
      given task. This kind of cluster computing is perfectly
      common on the ground (think Google runs on ONE box ?)
      but in SPACE, with the inherent delays between the
      nodes, VERY weird.

      'AI' ... maybe some kind of "global mind" is imagined ?

      'Security' ... it WOULD be hard to take out a LOT of
      these things in orbit. Take out a few, the system
      just runs a little slower, but still runs.

      China sometimes "thinks differently". Anybody got a
      clue WHY they'd want to invest so much in this ???
      It is beyond 'StarLink' in potential, yet does not
      seem to be a simple internet system like StarLink.

      Hmm ... does it run on Plan-9 ? That was meant for
      this sort of computing long back - and it's free,
      if you wanna deal with its oddness. RHEL is also
      commonly used for these sorts of clusters.


    Unlimited solar power?


    LOL. You are a card...

    --
    A PICKER OF UNCONSIDERED TRIFLES
    Um. Your .sig is damaged
    --
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
    gospel of envy.

    Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

    Winston Churchill

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 4 11:44:24 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    On 04/06/2025 09:15, c186282 wrote:
    On 6/4/25 3:56 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    [ snip alt. groups that the news server I use doesn't know about ]

    In comp.os.linux.misc c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://greekreporter.com/2025/06/03/china-world-first-supercomputer-space/ >>>
    China has begun building what could become the world's
    first supercomputer in space. On May 14, a Long March 2D
    rocket launched from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center,
    carrying 12 advanced satellites into orbit.
    . . .

       This is kind of strange ...

       Not entirely sure of the POINT in building anything
       quite like this in orbit.

       SOUNDS like they're implementing a distributed computing
       setup, with each sat as a 'motherbox' of a sort ... and
       the overall OS will be able to use on or many to do a
       given task. This kind of cluster computing is perfectly
       common on the ground (think Google runs on ONE box ?)
       but in SPACE, with the inherent delays between the
       nodes, VERY weird.

    Optical communication works in space without fibre-optics so I'm
    not sure why inter-satellite communication delays would be an
    issue.

    See this article:
    https://www.computerworld.com/article/3990472/china-takes-edge-computing-to-orbit-with-first-space-based-processing-network.html

    They expect link speeds to match fibre-optics, and avoid the round
    trip of Earth -> space -> Earth -> Space -> Earth which satellite
    internet networks currently encounter. I was already wondering if
    something like this would happen - something like Starlink offering
    on-satellite VPSs, but of course everything's AI-focused now while
    that hype train is still rolling.

    The other thing I was wondering, which the that article also touches
    on, is the legal aspect. Already satellite internet allows people to
    circumvent content restrictions imposed on terrestrial ISPs in their
    country to browse foreign websites. If illegal content like pirated
    videos is hosted in space, can anyone force it to be taken down?
    Could we get a contellation of pirate and porn satellites that
    operate outside the law (assuming the law can be tricked into
    letting them get launched)? What if a satellite-server gets hacked?
    There's nobody up there to pull the plug, access to it could be
    traded illegally for the rest of its lifetime. If a whole
    constellation got hacked that could really ammount to something.

    Or is this finally a commercial use for space stations - somewhere
    that the orbiting internet can be fixed from?


      My concern is not with the underlying TECH- but
      the underlying INTENT.

      You don't invest THIS much without INTENT.

    As with Russia, don't overestimate Chinas competence.

    There are credible analyses suggesting they lost *half* their
    population fromn Covid and it wasn't what they claimed in the first
    place, and that their economy is in freefall and Xi Ping is being
    'replaced'/

    How true any of this is, we wont know. The CCP keeps its problems well
    hidden, but the prices some stuff is being flogged off at on e.g. Ali
    Express suggests they have huge product surpluses and no local buyers.


    --
    "First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your oppressors."
    - George Orwell

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Computer Nerd Kev@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jun 5 09:21:53 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    In comp.os.linux.misc c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
    My concern is not with the underlying TECH- but
    the underlying INTENT.

    The driving force now is probably military applications. Various
    autonomous fighting machines in Ukraine have shown the usefullness
    of Starlink in wartime, and that's prompted China to renew work on
    building an internet constellation of their own. Then, this AI
    constellation might be useful for efficiently processing all the
    data from thousands of drones swarming over our heads come WWIII.
    But it's too early to tell where they'll really go with that.

    You don't invest THIS much without INTENT.

    It's not clear how much they've invested at this stage, having only
    launched the first 12 satellites of the planned thousands. These
    announcements are prone to vapour-ware, there was the Chinese
    "LinkSure" company in 2018 who were launching a free global
    internet constellation like what Starlink's became: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-30/chinese-company-to-provide-free-internet-worldwide-by-2026/10568434

    There's not much news since, that I can find, but this page claims
    it's cancelled:
    https://www.newspace.im/constellations/linksure

    But there are new Chinese Starlink clone projects that are gaining
    more traction now: https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/12/china-orbits-first-guowang-internet-satellites-with-thousands-more-to-come/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guowang
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qianfan

    --
    __ __
    #_ < |\| |< _#

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to Computer Nerd Kev on Wed Jun 4 23:29:27 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    On 6/4/25 7:21 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    In comp.os.linux.misc c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
    My concern is not with the underlying TECH- but
    the underlying INTENT.

    The driving force now is probably military applications. Various
    autonomous fighting machines in Ukraine have shown the usefullness
    of Starlink in wartime, and that's prompted China to renew work on
    building an internet constellation of their own. Then, this AI
    constellation might be useful for efficiently processing all the
    data from thousands of drones swarming over our heads come WWIII.
    But it's too early to tell where they'll really go with that.


    However, this does not seem to be another StarLink ... that
    is not what they're talking about. China already has lots
    of comm sats - and likely the codes to take over StarLink
    and friends in a pinch.


    You don't invest THIS much without INTENT.

    It's not clear how much they've invested at this stage, having only
    launched the first 12 satellites of the planned thousands. These announcements are prone to vapour-ware, there was the Chinese
    "LinkSure" company in 2018 who were launching a free global
    internet constellation like what Starlink's became: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-30/chinese-company-to-provide-free-internet-worldwide-by-2026/10568434

    There's not much news since, that I can find, but this page claims
    it's cancelled:
    https://www.newspace.im/constellations/linksure

    But there are new Chinese Starlink clone projects that are gaining
    more traction now: https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/12/china-orbits-first-guowang-internet-satellites-with-thousands-more-to-come/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guowang
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qianfan

    China, of course, wants more global net. However the
    means to THAT is much simpler than this project. WHY
    create a cluster super-computer in orbit ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Jun 4 23:25:00 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    On 6/4/25 6:44 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 04/06/2025 09:15, c186282 wrote:
    On 6/4/25 3:56 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    [ snip alt. groups that the news server I use doesn't know about ]

    In comp.os.linux.misc c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
    https://greekreporter.com/2025/06/03/china-world-first-supercomputer-space/


    China has begun building what could become the world's
    first supercomputer in space. On May 14, a Long March 2D
    rocket launched from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center,
    carrying 12 advanced satellites into orbit.
    . . .

       This is kind of strange ...

       Not entirely sure of the POINT in building anything
       quite like this in orbit.

       SOUNDS like they're implementing a distributed computing
       setup, with each sat as a 'motherbox' of a sort ... and
       the overall OS will be able to use on or many to do a
       given task. This kind of cluster computing is perfectly
       common on the ground (think Google runs on ONE box ?)
       but in SPACE, with the inherent delays between the
       nodes, VERY weird.

    Optical communication works in space without fibre-optics so I'm
    not sure why inter-satellite communication delays would be an
    issue.

    See this article:
    https://www.computerworld.com/article/3990472/china-takes-edge-computing-to-orbit-with-first-space-based-processing-network.html


    They expect link speeds to match fibre-optics, and avoid the round
    trip of Earth -> space -> Earth -> Space -> Earth which satellite
    internet networks currently encounter. I was already wondering if
    something like this would happen - something like Starlink offering
    on-satellite VPSs, but of course everything's AI-focused now while
    that hype train is still rolling.

    The other thing I was wondering, which the that article also touches
    on, is the legal aspect. Already satellite internet allows people to
    circumvent content restrictions imposed on terrestrial ISPs in their
    country to browse foreign websites. If illegal content like pirated
    videos is hosted in space, can anyone force it to be taken down?
    Could we get a contellation of pirate and porn satellites that
    operate outside the law (assuming the law can be tricked into
    letting them get launched)? What if a satellite-server gets hacked?
    There's nobody up there to pull the plug, access to it could be
    traded illegally for the rest of its lifetime. If a whole
    constellation got hacked that could really ammount to something.

    Or is this finally a commercial use for space stations - somewhere
    that the orbiting internet can be fixed from?


       My concern is not with the underlying TECH- but
       the underlying INTENT.

       You don't invest THIS much without INTENT.

    As with Russia, don't overestimate Chinas competence.

    That was the story maybe 15+ years ago ... but
    that seems to have CHANGED considerably. China
    has put HUGE effort into becoming cutting edge.
    Seems to have worked.

    "... it says Made In Japan". "What do you
    mean Doc, all the best stuff comes from Japan"

    Sorry, can no longer underestimate this particular
    enemy. That always turns out badly.

    There are credible analyses suggesting they  lost *half* their
    population fromn Covid and it wasn't what they claimed in the first
    place, and that their economy is in freefall and Xi Ping is being
    'replaced'/

    Umm ... no ... I don't think they lost half their
    pop to Covid. China is still a very populated
    BUSY place.

    How true any of this is, we wont know. The CCP keeps its problems well hidden, but the prices some stuff is being flogged off at on e.g. Ali
    Express suggests they have huge product surpluses and no local buyers.

    Over-production. It was ASSUMED there would be a huge
    US market for this junk. The Chinese already have as
    much as they can use.

    The authoritarian nature of the CCP govt means they
    can just tell complainers to shut up OR ELSE. This
    puts them in a better position to persist in the
    tariff wars than the USA. This ability does not
    show up in any books or reports, but it's there.

    Trump may SLIGHTLY improve the US position, but not
    by nearly as much as he hoped. Xi will hold firm
    for now.

    As said, do NOT underestimate China. Even more
    than Russia it's THE big player now.

    And I still don't clearly see the WHY of this
    major 'space brain' project. It's not another
    StarLink ... something different.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Thu Jun 5 03:25:40 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 11:44:24 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    There are credible analyses suggesting they lost *half* their
    population fromn Covid ...

    Did you get this information from the same source that said Covid was a
    hoax?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Computer Nerd Kev@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Jun 6 08:25:05 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    In comp.os.linux.misc c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 6/4/25 7:21 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    In comp.os.linux.misc c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
    My concern is not with the underlying TECH- but
    the underlying INTENT.

    The driving force now is probably military applications. Various
    autonomous fighting machines in Ukraine have shown the usefullness
    of Starlink in wartime, and that's prompted China to renew work on
    building an internet constellation of their own. Then, this AI
    constellation might be useful for efficiently processing all the
    data from thousands of drones swarming over our heads come WWIII.
    But it's too early to tell where they'll really go with that.


    However, this does not seem to be another StarLink ... that
    is not what they're talking about. China already has lots
    of comm sats - and likely the codes to take over StarLink
    and friends in a pinch.

    You don't think they'd connect this AI constellation to their comms
    sats? Seems inevitable to me.

    You don't invest THIS much without INTENT.

    It's not clear how much they've invested at this stage, having only
    launched the first 12 satellites of the planned thousands. These
    announcements are prone to vapour-ware, there was the Chinese
    "LinkSure" company in 2018 who were launching a free global
    internet constellation like what Starlink's became:
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-30/chinese-company-to-provide-free-internet-worldwide-by-2026/10568434

    There's not much news since, that I can find, but this page claims
    it's cancelled:
    https://www.newspace.im/constellations/linksure

    But there are new Chinese Starlink clone projects that are gaining
    more traction now:
    https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/12/china-orbits-first-guowang-internet-satellites-with-thousands-more-to-come/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guowang
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qianfan

    China, of course, wants more global net. However the
    means to THAT is much simpler than this project. WHY
    create a cluster super-computer in orbit ?

    Well I talked about that before and you said "My concern is not
    with the underlying TECH", so I give up.

    --
    __ __
    #_ < |\| |< _#

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to Computer Nerd Kev on Thu Jun 5 21:51:39 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    On 6/5/25 6:25 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    In comp.os.linux.misc c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 6/4/25 7:21 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
    In comp.os.linux.misc c186282 <[email protected]> wrote:
    My concern is not with the underlying TECH- but
    the underlying INTENT.

    The driving force now is probably military applications. Various
    autonomous fighting machines in Ukraine have shown the usefullness
    of Starlink in wartime, and that's prompted China to renew work on
    building an internet constellation of their own. Then, this AI
    constellation might be useful for efficiently processing all the
    data from thousands of drones swarming over our heads come WWIII.
    But it's too early to tell where they'll really go with that.


    However, this does not seem to be another StarLink ... that
    is not what they're talking about. China already has lots
    of comm sats - and likely the codes to take over StarLink
    and friends in a pinch.

    You don't think they'd connect this AI constellation to their comms
    sats? Seems inevitable to me.

    You don't invest THIS much without INTENT.

    It's not clear how much they've invested at this stage, having only
    launched the first 12 satellites of the planned thousands. These
    announcements are prone to vapour-ware, there was the Chinese
    "LinkSure" company in 2018 who were launching a free global
    internet constellation like what Starlink's became:
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-30/chinese-company-to-provide-free-internet-worldwide-by-2026/10568434

    There's not much news since, that I can find, but this page claims
    it's cancelled:
    https://www.newspace.im/constellations/linksure

    But there are new Chinese Starlink clone projects that are gaining
    more traction now:
    https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/12/china-orbits-first-guowang-internet-satellites-with-thousands-more-to-come/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guowang
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qianfan

    China, of course, wants more global net. However the
    means to THAT is much simpler than this project. WHY
    create a cluster super-computer in orbit ?

    Well I talked about that before and you said "My concern is not
    with the underlying TECH", so I give up.


    In part yes ... but this whole plan is not about
    communications. You don't put so much computing
    power in orbit just so people can scroll porn.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Fri Jun 6 00:10:48 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    On 6/4/25 11:25 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 11:44:24 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    There are credible analyses suggesting they lost *half* their
    population fromn Covid ...

    Did you get this information from the same source that said Covid was a
    hoax?

    No.

    Follow up the thread, the refs are there.
    Seen the same in a number of places.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Narkiewicz@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Jun 6 19:26:55 2025
    c186282 <[email protected]> writes:

    My concern is not with the underlying TECH- but
    the underlying INTENT.

    You don't invest THIS much without INTENT.

    The intent is always to grow, be better, bolder and more
    capable.

    What was the intent of going to the moon after all?
    Not installing a rocket launcher there.

    Best regards,
    Chris Narkiewicz

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane?= CARPENTIE@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 6 19:06:34 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    [En-tête "Followup-To:" positionné à comp.os.linux.misc.]
    Le 04-06-2025, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> a écrit :

    As with Russia, don't overestimate Chinas competence.

    There are credible analyses suggesting they lost *half* their
    population fromn Covid

    That's the joke of the year. Are you that stupid or do you pretend to?

    Do you really believe twice the population of the USA could vanish with
    nobody realising it?
    Is there a reason for the virus to be a million times deadlier in the
    USA than in the rest of the world?
    Do you believe the vaccine has been designed to kill people to?

    and it wasn't what they claimed in the first place,

    Of course they didn't claimed that. I never heard about it but it's
    obviously pure bullshit.

    How true any of this is, we wont know.

    Who is "we"? When you say "we" that mean you aren't the only one in the
    world believing that.

    The CCP keeps its problems well
    hidden, but the prices some stuff is being flogged off at on e.g. Ali
    Express suggests they have huge product surpluses and no local buyers.

    If it was halfway true, the consequences would be way more visible.

    --
    Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
    https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 6 21:12:39 2025
    On 06/06/2025 20:06, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
    [En-tête "Followup-To:" positionné à comp.os.linux.misc.]
    Le 04-06-2025, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> a écrit :

    As with Russia, don't overestimate Chinas competence.

    There are credible analyses suggesting they lost *half* their
    population fromn Covid

    That's the joke of the year. Are you that stupid or do you pretend to?

    No. I am not that stupid. The evidence is there in the mass graves and
    how empty China is now

    Do you really believe twice the population of the USA could vanish with nobody realising it?

    In China, yes.

    Is there a reason for the virus to be a million times deadlier in the
    USA than in the rest of the world?
    Do you believe the vaccine has been designed to kill people to?

    #Who the fuck is talking about the USA?

    and it wasn't what they claimed in the first place,

    Of course they didn't claimed that. I never heard about it but it's
    obviously pure bullshit.
    China claimed it had 1.4 billion population. Evidence suggests it was
    less than a billion before covid and may be around half a billion now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM57HhM8yV8

    How true any of this is, we wont know.

    Who is "we"? When you say "we" that mean you aren't the only one in the
    world believing that.

    No,. I am not.



    The CCP keeps its problems well
    hidden, but the prices some stuff is being flogged off at on e.g. Ali
    Express suggests they have huge product surpluses and no local buyers.

    If it was halfway true, the consequences would be way more visible.


    They are.

    If you bother to look


    --
    To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Fri Jun 6 21:28:10 2025
    On 06/06/2025 21:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 06/06/2025 20:06, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
    [En-tête "Followup-To:" positionné à comp.os.linux.misc.]
    Le 04-06-2025, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> a écrit :


    China claimed it had 1.4 billion population. Evidence suggests it was
    less than a billion before covid and may be around half a billion now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM57HhM8yV8

    How true any of this is, we wont know.

    Who is "we"? When you say "we" that mean you aren't the only one in the
    world believing that.

    No,. I am not.



    The CCP keeps its problems well
    hidden, but the prices some stuff is being flogged off at on e.g. Ali
    Express suggests they have huge product surpluses and no local buyers.

    If it was halfway true, the consequences would be way more visible.


    They are.

    If you bother to look



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlWsxjXqY1Y
    Another independent estimate of chinas current [lack of] population


    --
    Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
    foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

    (Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Fri Jun 6 22:47:06 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    On 2025-06-04 12:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    ...

    There are credible analyses suggesting they  lost *half* their
    population fromn Covid and it wasn't what they claimed in the first
    place, and that their economy is in freefall and Xi Ping is being
    'replaced'/

    Credible to you, I'd say. Not to the rest of the world, the idea is just laughable.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Fri Jun 6 22:20:19 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    On 06/06/2025 21:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-06-04 12:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    ...

    There are credible analyses suggesting they  lost *half* their
    population fromn Covid and it wasn't what they claimed in the first
    place, and that their economy is in freefall and Xi Ping is being
    'replaced'/

    Credible to you, I'd say. Not to the rest of the world, the idea is just laughable.


    Watch the links I posted.
    The trouble with Americans is they simply have no idea what the rest of
    the world is like



    --
    Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
    twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
    on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
    projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

    Richard Lindzen

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to Chris Narkiewicz on Sat Jun 7 01:13:07 2025
    On 6/6/25 2:26 PM, Chris Narkiewicz wrote:
    c186282 <[email protected]> writes:

    My concern is not with the underlying TECH- but
    the underlying INTENT.

    You don't invest THIS much without INTENT.

    The intent is always to grow, be better, bolder and more
    capable.

    "Capable" HOW ???

    You're missing the 'intent' angle here.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 7 11:32:28 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    On 07/06/2025 11:19, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
    Le 06-06-2025, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> a écrit :
    On 06/06/2025 21:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-06-04 12:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    ...

    There are credible analyses suggesting they  lost *half* their
    population fromn Covid and it wasn't what they claimed in the first
    place, and that their economy is in freefall and Xi Ping is being
    'replaced'/

    Credible to you, I'd say. Not to the rest of the world, the idea is just >>> laughable.


    Watch the links I posted.
    The trouble with Americans is they simply have no idea what the rest of
    the world is like

    You are funnier with every message. It's impressive.


    Sigh.

    Enjoy your denial.

    Compared with the Wests 95-98% effective mRNA vaccines, China's was only
    about 65%.
    There are hundreds of videos online of empty streets, mass graves, loss
    of registration for examinations, loss of market for goods, lack of
    nightlife, fall in SIM card registrations, darker streets as seen from
    space.

    And so on and on.

    China is barely larger in population than the USA right now




    --
    “Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,”

    – Ludwig von Mises

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane?= CARPENTIE@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 7 10:19:47 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    Le 06-06-2025, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> a écrit :
    On 06/06/2025 21:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-06-04 12:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    ...

    There are credible analyses suggesting they  lost *half* their
    population fromn Covid and it wasn't what they claimed in the first
    place, and that their economy is in freefall and Xi Ping is being
    'replaced'/

    Credible to you, I'd say. Not to the rest of the world, the idea is just
    laughable.


    Watch the links I posted.
    The trouble with Americans is they simply have no idea what the rest of
    the world is like

    You are funnier with every message. It's impressive.

    --
    Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
    https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Harold Stevens@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 7 07:29:00 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    In <68441243$0$28069$[email protected]> Stéphane:

    [Snip...]

    You are funnier with every message. It's impressive.

    +1

    Like Margaret Thatcher's still in charge, screeching about Britain Uber Alles.

    --
    Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
    Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
    Really, it's (wyrd) at att, dotted with net. * DO NOT SPAM IT. *
    I toss GoogleGroup (http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to Harold Stevens on Sat Jun 7 22:18:37 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    On 6/7/25 8:29 AM, Harold Stevens wrote:
    In <68441243$0$28069$[email protected]> Stéphane:

    [Snip...]

    You are funnier with every message. It's impressive.

    +1

    Like Margaret Thatcher's still in charge, screeching about Britain Uber Alles.


    Ummmmm ... I think Maggie was more right than wrong.

    Today's UK - broke and broken. It's an inch from
    falling into deadly chaos. When Vlad takes over
    "for humanitarian reasons" many may PREFER it ...

    However little of this has to do with Linux.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 8 10:18:34 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    On 08/06/2025 03:18, c186282 wrote:
    On 6/7/25 8:29 AM, Harold Stevens wrote:
    In <68441243$0$28069$[email protected]> Stéphane:

    [Snip...]

    You are funnier with every message. It's impressive.

    +1

    Like Margaret Thatcher's still in charge, screeching about Britain
    Uber Alles.


      Ummmmm ... I think Maggie was more right than wrong.

      Today's UK - broke and broken. It's an inch from
      falling into deadly chaos. When Vlad takes over
      "for humanitarian reasons" many may PREFER it ...

    wow!
    You think Vladdies little Empire will last the year out?

      However little of this has to do with Linux.

    --
    "In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
    true: it is true because it is powerful."

    Lucas Bergkamp

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Sun Jun 8 18:33:32 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    On Sun, 8 Jun 2025 10:18:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    You think Vladdies little Empire will last the year out?

    You think Zelensky will last the year out?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sun Jun 8 21:31:30 2025
    XPost: talk.politics.misc

    On 08/06/2025 19:33, rbowman wrote:
    On Sun, 8 Jun 2025 10:18:34 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    You think Vladdies little Empire will last the year out?

    You think Zelensky will last the year out?

    Oh definitely.

    You shouldn't listen to so much Russian propaganda.
    I''ll let you into a secret only known to the Illuminati.
    Russia lies, About EVERYTHING. As does China. And Donald Trump.

    Russia is on the edge of total collapse. So in fact is China.

    And if things contiunue as they are, so is the USA.

    But there is no need to argue the point. Time will tell, not argument on
    Usenet


    --
    "What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
    "I don't."
    "Don't what?"
    "Think about Gay Marriage."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From c186282@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Sun Jun 8 20:57:37 2025
    On 6/8/25 5:18 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 08/06/2025 03:18, c186282 wrote:
    On 6/7/25 8:29 AM, Harold Stevens wrote:
    In <68441243$0$28069$[email protected]> Stéphane:

    [Snip...]

    You are funnier with every message. It's impressive.

    +1

    Like Margaret Thatcher's still in charge, screeching about Britain
    Uber Alles.


       Ummmmm ... I think Maggie was more right than wrong.

       Today's UK - broke and broken. It's an inch from
       falling into deadly chaos. When Vlad takes over
       "for humanitarian reasons" many may PREFER it ...

    wow!
    You think Vladdies little Empire will last the year out?


    People have been saying that for about 20 years now ...

    He's got it rigged - ultimate power until he
    drops dead of natural causes.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 9 08:13:44 2025
    On 09/06/2025 01:57, c186282 wrote:
    On 6/8/25 5:18 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 08/06/2025 03:18, c186282 wrote:
    On 6/7/25 8:29 AM, Harold Stevens wrote:
    In <68441243$0$28069$[email protected]> Stéphane:

    [Snip...]

    You are funnier with every message. It's impressive.

    +1

    Like Margaret Thatcher's still in charge, screeching about Britain
    Uber Alles.


       Ummmmm ... I think Maggie was more right than wrong.

       Today's UK - broke and broken. It's an inch from
       falling into deadly chaos. When Vlad takes over
       "for humanitarian reasons" many may PREFER it ...

    wow!
    You think Vladdies little Empire will last the year out?


      People have been saying that for about 20 years now ...

      He's got it rigged - ultimate power until he
      drops dead of natural causes.


    Natural causes. Yeah. Rigjht. Gravity while standing on a 13th floor
    balcony :-

    --
    The higher up the mountainside
    The greener grows the grass.
    The higher up the monkey climbs
    The more he shows his arse.

    Traditional

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Charlie Gibbs@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Mon Jun 9 16:25:26 2025
    On 2025-06-09, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:

    On 09/06/2025 01:57, c186282 wrote:

    On 6/8/25 5:18 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    wow!
    You think Vladdies little Empire will last the year out?

      People have been saying that for about 20 years now ...

      He's got it rigged - ultimate power until he
      drops dead of natural causes.

    Natural causes. Yeah. Rigjht. Gravity while standing on a 13th floor
    balcony :-

    That would be poetic justice, wouldn't it?

    --
    /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
    \ / <[email protected]d> | growth is the ideology
    X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
    / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Narkiewicz@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jun 10 21:59:16 2025
    c186282 <[email protected]> writes:
    "Capable" HOW ???

    Being able tu sustain large compute in space, where radiation, power and
    heat management are not well understood problems. Creating a supply
    chain to provide specialized computing solutions for that environment.

    Any actor seriously thinking about space exploration must leverage computationaly heavy AI tools. Ping to mars is 4h. Can't do anything
    remotely sitting in Dallas.

    Once they have the capability, they will think what new opportunities
    open.

    You're missing the 'intent' angle here.

    Yes, dominate the world.

    Every civilization - unless mentally crippled - wants to grow. Nothing
    new under the sun.

    Best regards,
    Chris Narkiewicz

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Chris Narkiewicz on Wed Jun 11 09:07:53 2025
    On 10/06/2025 21:59, Chris Narkiewicz wrote:
    Every civilization - unless mentally crippled - wants to grow. Nothing
    new under the sun.

    Ah. Proof by assertion.

    I don't think so.

    Many civilised countries are quite happy at the size they are, or would
    be happier smaller.

    --
    “Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,”

    – Ludwig von Mises

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nuno Silva@21:1/5 to Chris Narkiewicz on Wed Jun 11 09:38:54 2025
    On 2025-06-10, Chris Narkiewicz wrote:

    c186282 <[email protected]> writes:
    "Capable" HOW ???

    Being able tu sustain large compute in space, where radiation, power and
    heat management are not well understood problems. Creating a supply
    chain to provide specialized computing solutions for that environment.

    How is it not "well understood"?

    Any actor seriously thinking about space exploration must leverage computationaly heavy AI tools. Ping to mars is 4h. Can't do anything
    remotely sitting in Dallas.

    One wonders how have operators been doing things with probes on Mars and beyond... for years now.

    It almost sounds like you want to paint this as needing "GenAI". In
    fact, once you have a higher RTT, you probably want to avoid anything
    that's not well defined. Anything that could cause a disaster which you
    won't hear about until after that RTT has elapsed.


    I mean, what could possibly go wrong?


    --
    Nuno Silva

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)