Hi all. I'm looking for a so-called "smart plug" to control from linux.
I've just had a bad experience with tp-link's offering, which requires
using a phone to set it up - and enabling in-app purchases to do so, how unnecessary! My own phone and tablet are too out of date for their
software to install, and I'm not about to change settings on anyone
else's. Unfortunately, PyP100 needs the device to be already set up :-{
So - is there a smart plug around that can be set up and controlled from linux without all the garbage the makers seem to want to inflict?If you use a Sonoff device (may be the DIY version, or maybe one you've replaced the factory firmware) there are python utils to control them
I'm looking for a so-called "smart plug" to control from linux.
I would like to control two Tapo P100s using a workstation with
Ubuntu 20.04 as OS. Is there a way to do that?
Yes, you can. First you need to install a javascrit runtime Node.js https://nodejs.org/en/ Then you can install Homebridge which is ahttps://github.com/homebridge/homebridge/wiki/Install-Homebridge-on-Debian-or-Ubuntu-Linux
javascript server emulating Homekit API
Then you can install a Tapo plugin for Homekit to control Tapo
devices https://www.npmjs.com/package/homebridge-tapo
All installation details and download links are in the links I wrote
above
I used this combination both on Debian and macOS machines which
worked well. Now I use Apple Silicon Macs which native iOS Tapo app
runs just like an iPhone.
Currently, our Tapo plug can only be managed by Tapo application.
Hi all. I'm looking for a so-called "smart plug" to control from linux.
I've just had a bad experience with tp-link's offering, which requires
using a phone to set it up - and enabling in-app purchases to do so, how unnecessary! My own phone and tablet are too out of date for their
software to install, and I'm not about to change settings on anyone
else's. Unfortunately, PyP100 needs the device to be already set up :-{
So - is there a smart plug around that can be set up and controlled from linux without all the garbage the makers seem to want to inflict?
TIA.
Hi all. I'm looking for a so-called "smart plug" to control from linux.
I've just had a bad experience with tp-link's offering, which requires
using a phone to set it up - and enabling in-app purchases to do so, how unnecessary! My own phone and tablet are too out of date for their
software to install, and I'm not about to change settings on anyone
else's. Unfortunately, PyP100 needs the device to be already set up :-{
So - is there a smart plug around that can be set up and controlled from linux without all the garbage the makers seem to want to inflict?
TIA.
I use an open source firmware called Tasmota, which can be installed on
some devices but not others. I have installed it in a Sonoff device,
maybe 5 years ago, but it was a pain.
I think you have to be careful that they are not controlled by a cloud service. If you have a cloud service you need a working wan connection
and you are exposed to the cloud service provider disappearing.
On 15/01/2025 20:31, Pancho wrote:
I think you have to be careful that they are not controlled by a cloud
service. If you have a cloud service you need a working wan connection
and you are exposed to the cloud service provider disappearing.
(Thanks to all for replying)
This is the rub. tp-link clearly /want/ the consumer to use their
"cloud" service - which is usually just a fancy codeword for 'we want
your data'. There's no actual /need/ that I can see in this case.
Hi all. I'm looking for a so-called "smart plug" to control from linux.
I've just had a bad experience with tp-link's offering, which requires
using a phone to set it up - and enabling in-app purchases to do so, how unnecessary! My own phone and tablet are too out of date for their
software to install, and I'm not about to change settings on anyone
else's. Unfortunately, PyP100 needs the device to be already set up :-{
So - is there a smart plug around that can be set up and controlled from linux without all the garbage the makers seem to want to inflict?
TIA.
On 15/01/2025 at 16:32, Mike Scott wrote:
Hi all. I'm looking for a so-called "smart plug" to control from linux.
I've just had a bad experience with tp-link's offering, which requires using a phone to set it up
- and enabling in-app purchases to do so, how unnecessary! My own phone and tablet are too out of
date for their software to install, and I'm not about to change settings on anyone else's.
Unfortunately, PyP100 needs the device to be already set up :-{
So - is there a smart plug around that can be set up and controlled from linux without all the
garbage the makers seem to want to inflict?
TIA.
If you're up to a bit of wiring, try a USB relay. E.g. Annadue Relay Module (try Amazon, 2 channel
£10.62)
Interface: apt install usbrelay
usbrelay --debug for information
1, 2, 3, 8 channels available
I think you have to be careful that they are not controlled by a cloud
service. If you have a cloud service you need a working wan connection
and you are exposed to the cloud service provider disappearing.
This is the rub. tp-link clearly /want/ the consumer to use their
"cloud" service - which is usually just a fancy codeword for 'we want
your data'. There's no actual /need/ that I can see in this case.
I've found python modules for actually running the thing - but
apparently the device's initial setup still needs tp-link's cloud services.
On 15/01/2025 20:31, Pancho wrote:
And the problem there is my phone and hudl are ancient so tp-link's code won't install - and when I try to install it on my wife's phone, it
wants me to enable in-app purchases. WHY? It's totally unnecessary. All
I want to do is set up a device I've already purchased. (And it's not
going to happen: I avoid in-app purchase software like the plague, and
I'm not about to set up something like that on a borrowed phone anyway.)
On 16/01/2025 09:33, Mike Scott wrote:
On 15/01/2025 20:31, Pancho wrote:Actually there is.
I think you have to be careful that they are not controlled by a cloud
service. If you have a cloud service you need a working wan connection and >>> you are exposed to the cloud service provider disappearing.
(Thanks to all for replying)
This is the rub. tp-link clearly /want/ the consumer to use their "cloud"
service - which is usually just a fancy codeword for 'we want your data'.
There's no actual /need/ that I can see in this case.
It is the simple way to solve 'remote access' to your 'behind NAS' network connected gadgets
Now *we* can organise that because we are geeks, but te average coinsumer? Doan mak me larf!
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/01/2025 09:33, Mike Scott wrote:
On 15/01/2025 20:31, Pancho wrote:Actually there is.
I think you have to be careful that they are not controlled by a
cloud service. If you have a cloud service you need a working wan
connection and you are exposed to the cloud service provider
disappearing.
(Thanks to all for replying)
This is the rub. tp-link clearly /want/ the consumer to use their
"cloud" service - which is usually just a fancy codeword for 'we
want your data'. There's no actual /need/ that I can see in this
case.
It is the simple way to solve 'remote access' to your 'behind NAS'
network connected gadgets
Now *we* can organise that because we are geeks, but te average
coinsumer? Doan mak me larf!
I use tor to give me a globally unique name where I can access my
stuff behind NAT as a Tor hidden service.
On 15/01/2025 20:31, Pancho wrote:
I think you have to be careful that they are not controlled by a
cloud service. If you have a cloud service you need a working wan
connection and you are exposed to the cloud service provider
disappearing.
(Thanks to all for replying)
This is the rub. tp-link clearly /want/ the consumer to use their
"cloud" service - which is usually just a fancy codeword for 'we want
your data'.
There's no actual /need/ that I can see in this case.
On 2025-01-16 10:33, Mike Scott wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
On 15/01/2025 20:31, Pancho wrote:
...
And the problem there is my phone and hudl are ancient so tp-link's code
won't install - and when I try to install it on my wife's phone, it
wants me to enable in-app purchases. WHY? It's totally unnecessary. All
I want to do is set up a device I've already purchased. (And it's not
going to happen: I avoid in-app purchase software like the plague, and
I'm not about to set up something like that on a borrowed phone anyway.)
It is just a permission on this single app, you don't have to buy
anything. It will not buy anything for you on your back. In any case,
you have to actually approve the purchase (and have a banking account registered with Google).
On 1/16/25 3:07 PM, Rich wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/01/2025 09:33, Mike Scott wrote:
On 15/01/2025 20:31, Pancho wrote:Actually there is.
I think you have to be careful that they are not controlled by a
cloud service. If you have a cloud service you need a working wan >>>>>> connection and you are exposed to the cloud service provider
disappearing.
(Thanks to all for replying)
This is the rub. tp-link clearly /want/ the consumer to use their
"cloud" service - which is usually just a fancy codeword for 'we
want your data'. There's no actual /need/ that I can see in this
case.
It is the simple way to solve 'remote access' to your 'behind NAS'
network connected gadgets
Now *we* can organise that because we are geeks, but te average
coinsumer? Doan mak me larf!
I use tor to give me a globally unique name where I can access my
stuff behind NAT as a Tor hidden service.
99.1% of the total users would be incapable of achieving what you are
doing with Tor, even if given infinite time to set it all up.
I don't disagree that most users are not likely to be able to set up
complex things, but realistically, companies should always make it
possible to bypass their cloud service.
Offer users the option, if they want it. But never force it or make it mandatory. Philip's Hue does not require an account at all to use their
smart hub and lights/devices. In fact, their app can operate without any internet connection at all. (You can disconnect your internet cable from
your router and turn off data on your phone and set the entire thing up locally with the app, without any internet or online account creation.)
In comp.os.linux.misc D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/01/2025 09:33, Mike Scott wrote:
On 15/01/2025 20:31, Pancho wrote:Actually there is.
I think you have to be careful that they are not controlled by a
cloud service. If you have a cloud service you need a working wan
connection and you are exposed to the cloud service provider
disappearing.
(Thanks to all for replying)
This is the rub. tp-link clearly /want/ the consumer to use their
"cloud" service - which is usually just a fancy codeword for 'we
want your data'. There's no actual /need/ that I can see in this
case.
It is the simple way to solve 'remote access' to your 'behind NAS'
network connected gadgets
Now *we* can organise that because we are geeks, but te average
coinsumer? Doan mak me larf!
I use tor to give me a globally unique name where I can access my
stuff behind NAT as a Tor hidden service.
99.1% of the total users would be incapable of achieving what you are
doing with Tor, even if given infinite time to set it all up.
On 2025-01-16, Carlos E.R. <[email protected]d> wrote:
On 2025-01-16 10:33, Mike Scott wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
On 15/01/2025 20:31, Pancho wrote:
...
And the problem there is my phone and hudl are ancient so tp-link's code >>> won't install - and when I try to install it on my wife's phone, it
wants me to enable in-app purchases. WHY? It's totally unnecessary. All
I want to do is set up a device I've already purchased. (And it's not
going to happen: I avoid in-app purchase software like the plague, and
I'm not about to set up something like that on a borrowed phone anyway.)
It is just a permission on this single app, you don't have to buy
anything. It will not buy anything for you on your back. In any case,
you have to actually approve the purchase (and have a banking account
registered with Google).
That's a deal-breaker right there.
Which is how all the other IoT stuff should be too. Sadly, too many companies don't even think to offer the "non-cloud" option.
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 20:55:46 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
Which is how all the other IoT stuff should be too. Sadly, too many
companies don't even think to offer the "non-cloud" option.
It may change as more companies realize the cloud is costing them a lot of money particularly for AWS or other commercial providers. Some have went
back to running their own servers.
Meanwhile it is annoying. My Fitbit device won't synch with the
application on the phone without an internet connection. Leaving aside I don't enjoy being radio-collared by Google I sometimes have to jockey the phone around to get a connection.
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 20:55:46 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:
Which is how all the other IoT stuff should be too. Sadly, too many
companies don't even think to offer the "non-cloud" option.
Some of the original decisions were made based on the edge devices not
having the compute power. A good example is Alexa. The edge device can recognize the wake word but after that all the processing is done in the cloud. That brings in many issues including bandwidth, security, and the necessity to add processing power to handle thousands or millions of concurrent requests.
I chose Alexa as an example since that has been a money sink for Amazon.
The theory was people would use Alexa to order stuff; the practice is
people use Alexa to turn on the radio and so forth.
It may change as more companies realize the cloud is costing them a lot of money particularly for AWS or other commercial providers. Some have went
back to running their own servers.
Meanwhile it is annoying. My Fitbit device won't synch with the
application on the phone without an internet connection. Leaving aside I don't enjoy being radio-collared by Google I sometimes have to jockey the phone around to get a connection.
I hate Alexa. We had an Echo in the house for a bit, and it was forever listining in on our conversations and breaking in on them. That got her banished.
I never understood how any business - large or small - could be
comfortable having their financial information or their proprietary
technical data on a cloud server.
I just discovered that in the last two weeks, as I replaced by Fitbit
Charge 5 with a new Charge 6. It somehow would not show me the time when
I had left my phone in the office while going out to get the mail from
the mailbox at the driveway. Recovered once I was in Blluetooth range.
Some datapoints can sync between the watch and the phone over BlueTooth,
but "deeper stuff" like sleep analysis does indeed require connection to
the Google servers.
So - is there a smart plug around that can be set up and controlled from >linux without all the garbage the makers seem to want to inflict?
On 2025-01-16, Carlos E.R. <[email protected]d> wrote:
On 2025-01-16 10:33, Mike Scott wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
On 15/01/2025 20:31, Pancho wrote:
...
And the problem there is my phone and hudl are ancient so tp-link's code >>> won't install - and when I try to install it on my wife's phone, it
wants me to enable in-app purchases. WHY? It's totally unnecessary. All
I want to do is set up a device I've already purchased. (And it's not
going to happen: I avoid in-app purchase software like the plague, and
I'm not about to set up something like that on a borrowed phone anyway.)
It is just a permission on this single app, you don't have to buy
anything. It will not buy anything for you on your back. In any case,
you have to actually approve the purchase (and have a banking account
registered with Google).
That's a deal-breaker right there.
In comp.os.linux.misc D <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/01/2025 09:33, Mike Scott wrote:
On 15/01/2025 20:31, Pancho wrote:Actually there is.
I think you have to be careful that they are not controlled by a
cloud service. If you have a cloud service you need a working wan
connection and you are exposed to the cloud service provider
disappearing.
(Thanks to all for replying)
This is the rub. tp-link clearly /want/ the consumer to use their
"cloud" service - which is usually just a fancy codeword for 'we
want your data'. There's no actual /need/ that I can see in this
case.
It is the simple way to solve 'remote access' to your 'behind NAS'
network connected gadgets
Now *we* can organise that because we are geeks, but te average
coinsumer? Doan mak me larf!
I use tor to give me a globally unique name where I can access my
stuff behind NAT as a Tor hidden service.
99.1% of the total users would be incapable of achieving what you are
doing with Tor, even if given infinite time to set it all up.
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 02:53:38 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
I hate Alexa. We had an Echo in the house for a bit, and it was forever
listining in on our conversations and breaking in on them. That got her
banished.
I never had an Echo. I asked a woman I worked with whose name a Alex about
t. Apparently you can select other wake words which was good for her. My utterances on a normal day are 'Good morning, cat' when I go out to feed
her in the morning, or 'Hi cat' when she mysteriously appears when I drive in. I've seen the cat galloping from the pasture about 100 yards away when
I pull in so she has learned to recognize my car or motorcycles.
I just discovered that in the last two weeks, as I replaced by Fitbit
Charge 5 with a new Charge 6. It somehow would not show me the time when
I had left my phone in the office while going out to get the mail from
the mailbox at the driveway. Recovered once I was in Blluetooth range.
Some datapoints can sync between the watch and the phone over BlueTooth,
but "deeper stuff" like sleep analysis does indeed require connection to
the Google servers.
Synching for me often shows a network connection is necessary and may
require multiple restarts of the app. It's not very smooth. The latest feature, 'cardio load', has many people trying to figure out how it works
and the prompts to get your lazy butt in gear are not appreciated.
I got the Fitbit at a discount through Planet Fitness a year ago. It
usually works for distance and seems to be relatively reliable for HR. The rest is iffy. The real selling point for me is it's not a Dick Tracy Communicator on my wrist.
I hate Alexa. We had an Echo in the house for a bit, and it was forever listining in on our conversations and breaking in on them. That got her banished.
It may change as more companies realize the cloud is costing them a lot of >> money particularly for AWS or other commercial providers. Some have went
back to running their own servers.
I never understood how any business - large or small - could be
comfortable having their financial information or their proprietary
technical data on a cloud server. Quickbooks online would seem to be a
tempting target for Intuit data mining. For that matter, I worry about
having my personal tax return submitted to IRS through Intuit's servers (TurboTax) - or for that matter HR Block's. But I pray that there are
data protection laws surrounding this that they can't bypass with a click-wrap user agreement. Imagine how lucrative it would be to sell mortgages, life insurances or investment packages to people based on
reading their annual Form 1040.
Meanwhile it is annoying. My Fitbit device won't synch with the
application on the phone without an internet connection. Leaving aside I
don't enjoy being radio-collared by Google I sometimes have to jockey the
phone around to get a connection.
I just discovered that in the last two weeks, as I replaced by Fitbit
Charge 5 with a new Charge 6. It somehow would not show me the time
when I had left my phone in the office while going out to get the mail
from the mailbox at the driveway. Recovered once I was in Blluetooth
range. Some datapoints can sync between the watch and the phone over BlueTooth, but "deeper stuff" like sleep analysis does indeed require connection to the Google servers.
I do see the value if you have a big house. I can then see where it
might make
sense to optimize some parameters of the house.
But I'd ideally like something self-hosted for that.
Pancho wrote:
I use an open source firmware called Tasmota, which can be installed
on some devices but not others. I have installed it in a Sonoff
device, maybe 5 years ago, but it was a pain.
I think that's the idea behind the Sonoff "DIY" devices ... no soldering required to get Tasmota installed ...
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-01-16, Carlos E.R. <[email protected]d> wrote:
On 2025-01-16 10:33, Mike Scott wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
On 15/01/2025 20:31, Pancho wrote:
...
And the problem there is my phone and hudl are ancient so tp-link's
code
won't install - and when I try to install it on my wife's phone, it
wants me to enable in-app purchases. WHY? It's totally unnecessary. All >>>> I want to do is set up a device I've already purchased. (And it's not
going to happen: I avoid in-app purchase software like the plague, and >>>> I'm not about to set up something like that on a borrowed phone
anyway.)
It is just a permission on this single app, you don't have to buy
anything. It will not buy anything for you on your back. In any case,
you have to actually approve the purchase (and have a banking account
registered with Google).
That's a deal-breaker right there.
WTF?! Since when did that ever become a criterion? Sounds like some kind
of business manager should be gently removed from his job for making
that a requirement.
On 17/01/2025 09:40, D wrote:
I do see the value if you have a big house. I can then see where it might
make
sense to optimize some parameters of the house.
But I'd ideally like something self-hosted for that.
Remember smart tech is for stupid people
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:I think so.
On 17/01/2025 09:40, D wrote:
I do see the value if you have a big house. I can then see where it
might make
sense to optimize some parameters of the house.
But I'd ideally like something self-hosted for that.
Remember smart tech is for stupid people
Would that mean that stupid tech is for smart people? ;)
I don't disagree that most users are not likely to be able to set up.....
complex things, but realistically, companies should always make it
possible to bypass their cloud service. The ruse is "people are too
stupid to do this" as an excuse for cloud services being obligatory.
Even though, they actually aren't. Just give users the option to bypass
Offer users the option, if they want it. But never force it or make it.....
This is how it should be. And for users that want all that cloud stuff,
it can be optional available to them.
Anyone that thinks these things should be forced is just perpetuating an abusive system or just lacks knowledge on how these things work.
Yes, they exist. One of them is this one. https://www.shelly.com/products/shelly-plug-s-gen3
I have experience with one like this. You use your browser to control them. There is no
cloud if you don't want to. It connects to your wi-fi network. Just type address into your browser,
and you are ready to go.
If you're up to a bit of wiring, try a USB relay. E.g. Annadue Relayhttps://www.amazon.com/DSD-TECH-SH-UR01A-Controller-Computer/dp/B09PYML6Q7 That's the coolest. Damn! I wish I had that back when! Of course
Module (try Amazon, 2 channel £10.62)
Interface: apt install usbrelay
usbrelay --debug for information
1, 2, 3, 8 channels available
Linux Mint and good computers etc weren't available when I was a huge
DIYer and tinkered, but it really would have been fun.
Which is how all the other IoT stuff should be too. Sadly, too many companies don't even think to offer the "non-cloud" option.
I say... drop the fitbit and take a walk and do some pushups. Then
you'll be find, and you will have one less device to worry about! =)
I never understood how any business - large or small - could be
comfortable having their financial information or their proprietary
technical data on a cloud server.
A free range cat? Do you ever have problems with ticks? Every summer in
the country house when I was young, the neighbours cat would more or
less move in with us since the food was better than the dry food he got
at his home. But sometimes it would happen that I would read, and the
cat wanted petting. So I petted the cat while reading, then look at my
hand to discover ticks crawling there. So the cat brought us rich gifts
in the form of ticks and the occasional dead (or alive) mice.
I do not like ticks. They remind me of politicians and I would not be displeased if they all disappeared.
On 17/01/2025 02:53, Lars Poulsen wrote:
I never understood how any business - large or small - could be
comfortable having their financial information or their proprietary
technical data on a cloud server.
Because people do not understand what they're doing. Some think "cloud"
is a magical panacea for all things: they don't really understand it
simply means getting someone else to manage (and thereby have access to) their data.
On 16/01/2025 13:25, Alan K. wrote:
If you're up to a bit of wiring, try a USB relay. E.g. Annadue Relay Module (try Amazon, 2 channel £10.62)https://www.amazon.com/DSD-TECH-SH-UR01A-Controller-Computer/dp/B09PYML6Q7 >> That's the coolest. Damn! I wish I had that back when! Of course Linux Mint and good computers etc weren't available when I was a huge DIYer and tinkered, but it really would have been fun.
Interface: apt install usbrelay
usbrelay --debug for information
1, 2, 3, 8 channels available
Nice idea... but I'm looking at probably 3kW at 240V to run a heater.
The power level is just a bit outside my comfort zone for home construction, especially for unattended operation.
It's why I'm trying to find a commercial solution.
... I'm looking at probably 3kW at 240V to run a heater.
The power level is just a bit outside my comfort zone for home
construction ...
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 16:48:03 +0000, Mike Scott wrote:
... I'm looking at probably 3kW at 240V to run a heater.
The power level is just a bit outside my comfort zone for home
construction ...
I should say it is. It’s well beyond the rating for a typical household outlet. Whatever it is, I imagine you’re going to need professional electrician help to set it up.
Mike Scott wrote:
Hi all. I'm looking for a so-called "smart plug" to control from linux.If you use a Sonoff device (may be the DIY version, or maybe one you've replaced the factory firmware) there are python utils to control them
I've just had a bad experience with tp-link's offering, which requires
using a phone to set it up - and enabling in-app purchases to do so,
how unnecessary! My own phone and tablet are too out of date for their
software to install, and I'm not about to change settings on anyone
else's. Unfortunately, PyP100 needs the device to be already set up :-{
So - is there a smart plug around that can be set up and controlled
from linux without all the garbage the makers seem to want to inflict?
<https://sonoff.tech/product/diy-smart-switches/basicr2/>
<https://gist.github.com/Derkades/>
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:40:21 +0100, D wrote:
I say... drop the fitbit and take a walk and do some pushups. Then
you'll be find, and you will have one less device to worry about! =)
The distance and heart rate metrics are useful to make sure the walk
doesn't turn into a stroll. Lately I've been doing my version of Nordic walking. It's interesting how the upper body involvement adds to the exercise.
I'd been using a pedometer app that was fairly accurate for distance. The fitbit uses the phone's GPS so can be a little more accurate although it's not foolproof.
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:45:41 +0100, D wrote:
A free range cat? Do you ever have problems with ticks? Every summer in
the country house when I was young, the neighbours cat would more or
less move in with us since the food was better than the dry food he got
at his home. But sometimes it would happen that I would read, and the
cat wanted petting. So I petted the cat while reading, then look at my
hand to discover ticks crawling there. So the cat brought us rich gifts
in the form of ticks and the occasional dead (or alive) mice.
No, I've never seen tics on the cat. I've picked them up hiking but not around home. The local version is the Rocky Mountain Wood Tick and true to its name seems to prefer brushy areas. I don't think the cat goes out to
the tree line. There be dragons there.
On 16/01/2025 20:48, Phillip wrote:
I don't disagree that most users are not likely to be able to set up.....
complex things, but realistically, companies should always make it possible >> to bypass their cloud service. The ruse is "people are too stupid to do
this" as an excuse for cloud services being obligatory. Even though, they
actually aren't. Just give users the option to bypass
.....
Offer users the option, if they want it. But never force it or make it
This is how it should be. And for users that want all that cloud stuff, it >> can be optional available to them.
Anyone that thinks these things should be forced is just perpetuating an
abusive system or just lacks knowledge on how these things work.
(OP)
+1.
With the added note that control of all these cloud-based gizmos is probably located in China. Perhaps not the best of ideas in the current climate.
On 2025-01-17, Mike Scott <[email protected]d> wrote:
On 17/01/2025 02:53, Lars Poulsen wrote:
I never understood how any business - large or small - could be
comfortable having their financial information or their proprietary
technical data on a cloud server.
Because people do not understand what they're doing. Some think "cloud"
is a magical panacea for all things: they don't really understand it
simply means getting someone else to manage (and thereby have access to)
their data.
People have become too dependent on the Internet.
It Clouds their thinking.
On 2025-01-17, D <[email protected]> wrote:
I do not like ticks. They remind me of politicians and I would not be
displeased if they all disappeared.
The word "politics" derives from "poly", as in many,
and "ticks", as in blood-sucking parasites.
On 18/01/2025 02:21, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 16:48:03 +0000, Mike Scott wrote:
... I'm looking at probably 3kW at 240V to run a heater.
The power level is just a bit outside my comfort zone for home
construction ...
I should say it is. It’s well beyond the rating for a typical household
outlet. Whatever it is, I imagine you’re going to need professional
electrician help to set it up.
Your comment puzzles me.... standard UK outlets are 13A 240V, using a
ring main rated at 30A total. 3kW is a standard "3 bar" electric heater.
On Fri, 1/17/2025 11:48 AM, Mike Scott wrote:
On 16/01/2025 13:25, Alan K. wrote:
If you're up to a bit of wiring, try a USB relay. E.g. Annadue Relay Module (try Amazon, 2 channel £10.62)https://www.amazon.com/DSD-TECH-SH-UR01A-Controller-Computer/dp/B09PYML6Q7 >>> That's the coolest. Damn! I wish I had that back when! Of course Linux Mint and good computers etc weren't available when I was a huge DIYer and tinkered, but it really would have been fun.
Interface: apt install usbrelay
usbrelay --debug for information
1, 2, 3, 8 channels available
Nice idea... but I'm looking at probably 3kW at 240V to run a heater.
The power level is just a bit outside my comfort zone for home construction, especially for unattended operation.
It's why I'm trying to find a commercial solution.
You can use a relay, to switch a relay.
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:45:41 +0100, D wrote:
A free range cat? Do you ever have problems with ticks? Every summer in
the country house when I was young, the neighbours cat would more or
less move in with us since the food was better than the dry food he got
at his home. But sometimes it would happen that I would read, and the
cat wanted petting. So I petted the cat while reading, then look at my
hand to discover ticks crawling there. So the cat brought us rich gifts
in the form of ticks and the occasional dead (or alive) mice.
No, I've never seen tics on the cat. I've picked them up hiking but not
around home. The local version is the Rocky Mountain Wood Tick and
true to
its name seems to prefer brushy areas. I don't think the cat goes out to
the tree line. There be dragons there.
Ahh... smart cat! And very convenient! I read there's some kind of
collar you can buy for cats that has some chemical that spreads
throughout the fur and repels ticks. I do not know how effective it is,
so caveta emptor!
Mike Scott wrote:
I'm looking at probably 3kW at 240V to run a heater.
The power level is just a bit outside my comfort zone for home
construction ...
I should say it is. It’s well beyond the rating for a typical household outlet.
Whatever it is, I imagine you’re going to need professional
electrician help to set it up.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Mike Scott wrote:
I'm looking at probably 3kW at 240V to run a heater.
The power level is just a bit outside my comfort zone for home
construction ...
I should say it is. It’s well beyond the rating for a typical household
outlet.
No, it's exactly the limit of a UK 13A socket (assuming the nominal
230V, in practice most will be above 240V) but they do tend to suffer
when used with long running at full load (poor contact -> high
resistance -> heating -> charring -> fire)
Whatever it is, I imagine you’re going to need professional
electrician help to set it up.
I wouldn't trust a smart switch on a long-term load such as an immersion heater, there are 20A versions, I think I'd prefer using a smart switch
to drive a chunkier contactor and hardwired terminals.
On 18/01/2025 08:55, Mike Scott wrote:
On 18/01/2025 02:21, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:He is probably Murrican or European. Murricans need to go to 220V to get
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 16:48:03 +0000, Mike Scott wrote:
... I'm looking at probably 3kW at 240V to run a heater.
The power level is just a bit outside my comfort zone for home
construction ...
I should say it is. It’s well beyond the rating for a typical household >>> outlet. Whatever it is, I imagine you’re going to need professional
electrician help to set it up.
Your comment puzzles me.... standard UK outlets are 13A 240V, using a
ring main rated at 30A total. 3kW is a standard "3 bar" electric heater.
that sort of power and in Spain its illegal.
On 18/01/2025 02:46, Paul wrote:
On Fri, 1/17/2025 11:48 AM, Mike Scott wrote:
On 16/01/2025 13:25, Alan K. wrote:
If you're up to a bit of wiring, try a USB relay. E.g. Annaduehttps://www.amazon.com/DSD-TECH-SH-UR01A-Controller-Computer/dp/B09PYML6Q7 >>>> That's the coolest. Damn! I wish I had that back when! Of course >>>> Linux Mint and good computers etc weren't available when I was a
Relay Module (try Amazon, 2 channel £10.62)
Interface: apt install usbrelay
usbrelay --debug for information
1, 2, 3, 8 channels available
huge DIYer and tinkered, but it really would have been fun.
Nice idea... but I'm looking at probably 3kW at 240V to run a heater.
The power level is just a bit outside my comfort zone for home
construction, especially for unattended operation.
It's why I'm trying to find a commercial solution.
You can use a relay, to switch a relay.
No need., You can use a transistor to buffer a PIO output and drive a sensibly big relay directly
I sourced some 20A 250V relays from china that seem OK
JQX-15F-DC05V-A 4PIN
Is the magic keyword.
They take about a watt (200mA@5V) to drive them - beyond most PIO
(16mA=80mW for the pico) but easily obtainable with a single transistor amplifier.
Strangely Europe doesn't make shit like this - you end up with massive contactors at a huge price instead.
On 2025-01-18 12:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/01/2025 08:55, Mike Scott wrote:
On 18/01/2025 02:21, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:He is probably Murrican or European. Murricans need to go to 220V to
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 16:48:03 +0000, Mike Scott wrote:
... I'm looking at probably 3kW at 240V to run a heater.
The power level is just a bit outside my comfort zone for home
construction ...
I should say it is. It’s well beyond the rating for a typical household >>>> outlet. Whatever it is, I imagine you’re going to need professional
electrician help to set it up.
Your comment puzzles me.... standard UK outlets are 13A 240V, using a
ring main rated at 30A total. 3kW is a standard "3 bar" electric heater. >>>
get that sort of power and in Spain its illegal.
What is illegal?
... I'm looking at probably 3kW at 240V to run a heater.
The power level is just a bit outside my comfort zone for home
construction ...
I should say it is. It’s well beyond the rating for a typical household outlet. Whatever it is, I imagine you’re going to need professional electrician help to set it up.
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 16:48:03 +0000, Mike Scott wrote:
... I'm looking at probably 3kW at 240V to run a heater.
The power level is just a bit outside my comfort zone for home
construction ...
On 2025-01-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
I should say it is. It’s well beyond the rating for a typical household
outlet. Whatever it is, I imagine you’re going to need professional
electrician help to set it up.
If I remember correctly,
US home outlets are 120V 15A. So 1800W max.
EU home outlets are 230V 10A, so 2300W max.
UK home outlets are 230V 27A, so 6.2kW max.
This is why electric tea kettles work so well in the UK.
And if I remember, there is a fuse in the PLUG, so an appliance can
have a cord with a smaller fuse if it doesn't need the full power.
This is why the UK plugs are so massively huge.
But even in the US, a 20A outlet is not unusual.
It does require a
heavier wire gauge in the walls. And 240V with amperages from 10A
to 50A is common for washing machines, laundry dryers, electric
stoves and EV chargers.
are a motley collection of incompatible versions. I wish they would
allow the EU Schuko for 10A, and the UK socket for up to 30A.
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 16:48:03 +0000, Mike Scott wrote:
... I'm looking at probably 3kW at 240V to run a heater.
The power level is just a bit outside my comfort zone for home
construction ...
On 2025-01-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
I should say it is. It’s well beyond the rating for a typical household
outlet. Whatever it is, I imagine you’re going to need professional
electrician help to set it up.
If I remember correctly,
US home outlets are 120V 15A. So 1800W max.
EU home outlets are 230V 10A, so 2300W max.
UK home outlets are 230V 27A, so 6.2kW max.
This is why electric tea kettles work so well in the UK.
And if I remember, there is a fuse in the PLUG, so an appliance can
have a cord with a smaller fuse if it doesn't need the full power.
This is why the UK plugs are so massively huge.
But even in the US, a 20A outlet is not unusual. It does require a
heavier wire gauge in the walls. And 240V with amperages from 10A
to 50A is common for washing machines, laundry dryers, electric
stoves and EV chargers. Unfortunately, the plugs allowed for them
are a motley collection of incompatible versions. I wish they would
allow the EU Schuko for 10A, and the UK socket for up to 30A.
On 18/01/2025 10:38, D wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:45:41 +0100, D wrote:
A free range cat? Do you ever have problems with ticks? Every summer in >>>> the country house when I was young, the neighbours cat would more or
less move in with us since the food was better than the dry food he got >>>> at his home. But sometimes it would happen that I would read, and the
cat wanted petting. So I petted the cat while reading, then look at my >>>> hand to discover ticks crawling there. So the cat brought us rich gifts >>>> in the form of ticks and the occasional dead (or alive) mice.
No, I've never seen tics on the cat. I've picked them up hiking but not
around home. The local version is the Rocky Mountain Wood Tick and true to >>> its name seems to prefer brushy areas. I don't think the cat goes out to >>> the tree line. There be dragons there.
Ahh... smart cat! And very convenient! I read there's some kind of collar
you can buy for cats that has some chemical that spreads throughout the fur >> and repels ticks. I do not know how effective it is, so caveta emptor!
Its pretty good.
But so is spraying them,. They hate it, but that works too
Ahh... smart cat! And very convenient! I read there's some kind of
collar you can buy for cats that has some chemical that spreads
throughout the fur and repels ticks. I do not know how effective it is,
so caveta emptor!
Its pretty good.
But so is spraying them,. They hate it, but that works too
Horses for courses. Too much data for me and yet another gadget. I'll
stick with my analog ways when it comes to training. A routine which
works for me is pullups, one arm pushups and dragonflags every other
days.
It has kept me fairly healthy. I recommend it! =)
On 18/01/2025 13:13, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-01-18 12:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Appliances that draw more than 1.5kW from memory.
On 18/01/2025 08:55, Mike Scott wrote:
On 18/01/2025 02:21, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:He is probably Murrican or European. Murricans need to go to 220V to
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 16:48:03 +0000, Mike Scott wrote:
... I'm looking at probably 3kW at 240V to run a heater.
The power level is just a bit outside my comfort zone for home
construction ...
I should say it is. It’s well beyond the rating for a typical
household
outlet. Whatever it is, I imagine you’re going to need professional >>>>> electrician help to set it up.
Your comment puzzles me.... standard UK outlets are 13A 240V, using
a ring main rated at 30A total. 3kW is a standard "3 bar" electric
heater.
get that sort of power and in Spain its illegal.
What is illegal?
Oh. No. They have changed it
"All electrical equipment has an assigned electrical power (small or
large) that is expressed in Watts (W) or kilowatts (kW). If we use
several devices simultaneously, the electrical power of each adds up,
until we reach a point where we can no longer use more equipment at a
time so that this sum exceeds the electrical power we have contracted.
This is the maximum power that can be consumed simultaneously.
When the maximum power is exceeded, the new digital meters disconnect
the service and the home runs out of electricity supply. The most
economical and efficient way to use electric energy is to have a low contracted power, as this will optimise the use of the equipment and
reduce the fixed cost of the electricity bill."
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 16:48:03 +0000, Mike Scott wrote:
... I'm looking at probably 3kW at 240V to run a heater.
The power level is just a bit outside my comfort zone for home
construction ...
On 2025-01-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <[email protected]d> wrote:
I should say it is. It’s well beyond the rating for a typical household
outlet. Whatever it is, I imagine you’re going to need professional
electrician help to set it up.
If I remember correctly,
US home outlets are 120V 15A. So 1800W max.
EU home outlets are 230V 10A, so 2300W max.
UK home outlets are 230V 27A, so 6.2kW max.
This is why electric tea kettles work so well in the UK.
And if I remember, there is a fuse in the PLUG, so an appliance can
have a cord with a smaller fuse if it doesn't need the full power.
This is why the UK plugs are so massively huge.
But even in the US, a 20A outlet is not unusual. It does require a
heavier wire gauge in the walls. And 240V with amperages from 10A
to 50A is common for washing machines, laundry dryers, electric
stoves and EV chargers. Unfortunately, the plugs allowed for them
are a motley collection of incompatible versions. I wish they would
allow the EU Schuko for 10A, and the UK socket for up to 30A.
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 11:38:46 +0100, D wrote:
Ahh... smart cat! And very convenient! I read there's some kind of
collar you can buy for cats that has some chemical that spreads
throughout the fur and repels ticks. I do not know how effective it is,
so caveta emptor!
I use a permethrin spray on my clothing during tick season. It doesn't
repel ticks but fries their nervous system. It's also used for dogs but
cats can't break it down as rapidly as other mammals.
Fipronil is used for cats and can be sprayed on. It's widely used and is suspected to be a factor in bee colony collapse however. A collar for an outdoor cat isn't a good idea. If it's loose enough so they can get out of
it if it snags it's loose enough they will paw it off in short order.
The local subreddit often has hot arguments about cats. Someone will post about a collarless cat who must be 'lost'. People more familiar with cats will tell them to just leave the cat alone. There probably are some
lifetime house cats that can get lost but outdoor semi-feral cats have
their own agenda.
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 11:04:14 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Its pretty good.
But so is spraying them,. They hate it, but that works too
I used to hold flea clinics when we had several cats. If you pick them up
by the scruff of the neck like a mother cat they are immobilized and you
can spray them down. Their eyes aren't immobilized and they are promising
to kill you when you put them down.
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 11:37:43 +0100, D wrote:
Horses for courses. Too much data for me and yet another gadget. I'll
stick with my analog ways when it comes to training. A routine which
works for me is pullups, one arm pushups and dragonflags every other
days.
It has kept me fairly healthy. I recommend it! =)
I had to look up dragon flags. Never heard of it. I haven't done pullups
for some time. The muscles were willing but the joints and tendons
protested. There is a machine at the gym that allows for pullups at less
than full body weigh but it's cumbersome.
I am trying to build up to one arm pullups, but the joints and tendons
are unwilling. My only strategy is to take it slow, and not to force
things. Hopefully I will build up some tolerance over time.
I use a permethrin spray on my clothing during tick season. It doesn't
repel ticks but fries their nervous system. It's also used for dogs but
cats can't break it down as rapidly as other mammals.
Ahh... it works! Surely it must be forbidden in europe then? ;) I will >remember this!
On a certified house you may easily have 10 KW, sometimes 15. More if
you contract the three phases.
On 18/01/2025 19:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On a certified house you may easily have 10 KW, sometimes 15. More if
you contract the three phases.
I have 23kW and my own substation! Part of the result of paying tens of thousands to have the overhead cable across the garden removed. No transformer on a pole, A substation in the garden instead.
I wish I had gone three phase...I had that option.
But seriously, before the greens and politicians started fucking with it
the UK grid was amongst the best in the world and the house wiring
actually is, in my opinion.
US wiring horrifies me.
European is mostly pretty good.
Due to a fall, he has a short tail, the doctor apparently had to cut part
of it off for some reason. This affected his balance, so sometimes he
would misjudge things and fall down. Then he would alternately look
ashamed of himself, or he would look very very similar to "f*ck you" when
the humans around where laughing at him.
I am trying to build up to one arm pullups, but the joints and tendons
are unwilling. My only strategy is to take it slow, and not to force
things. Hopefully I will build up some tolerance over time.
Did you try a dragon flag? =) It's a great core exercise!
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 11:04:14 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Ahh... didn't know that! Did they ever kill anyone when you put them
Its pretty good.
But so is spraying them,. They hate it, but that works too
I used to hold flea clinics when we had several cats. If you pick them
up by the scruff of the neck like a mother cat they are immobilized and
you can spray them down. Their eyes aren't immobilized and they are
promising to kill you when you put them down.
down?
;)
In my experience, cats never forget, so doing something like that can
erase trust quickly and it takes a long time to rebuild, sometimes
longer than a life time.
On 1/19/25 10:40, D wrote:
I am trying to build up to one arm pullups, but the joints and tendons are >> unwilling. My only strategy is to take it slow, and not to force things.
Hopefully I will build up some tolerance over time.
Is that because you only have one arm, or because you want to look super hench. My nieces husband is like that. He broke his arm, arm wrestling, all muscle no bone. It's not sensible.
On Sun, 19 Jan 2025 11:38:46 +0100, D wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 11:04:14 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Ahh... didn't know that! Did they ever kill anyone when you put them
Its pretty good.
But so is spraying them,. They hate it, but that works too
I used to hold flea clinics when we had several cats. If you pick them
up by the scruff of the neck like a mother cat they are immobilized and
you can spray them down. Their eyes aren't immobilized and they are
promising to kill you when you put them down.
down?
;)
No, they went on about their business.
In my experience, cats never forget, so doing something like that can
erase trust quickly and it takes a long time to rebuild, sometimes
longer than a life time.
I currently feed two. One has been coming around for a couple of years and the other showed up this summer. In both cases it took a long time before
I could get close enough to pet them. Neither like sudden moves nor will
they come into the house. The older one did come in once to look around
but the other won't cross the threshold.
I've no ideas what their histories are but I don't think they were good.
On Sun, 19 Jan 2025 11:40:16 +0100, D wrote:
I am trying to build up to one arm pullups, but the joints and tendons
are unwilling. My only strategy is to take it slow, and not to force
things. Hopefully I will build up some tolerance over time.
As I got older I became more conservative. Push too hard and injure
yourself, no training until you've healed is counterproductive.
Did you try a dragon flag? =) It's a great core exercise!
I may try it at the gym. Last winter while prepping for a cataract
operation the nurse asked if I could lift my legs a little so she could
put a pillow under them. I wasn't thinking and did a standard leg raise. "Good core strength. You can put them down now."
I think, like vampires, the trick is to invite them in first!
On Sun, 19 Jan 2025 23:04:11 +0100, D wrote:
I think, like vampires, the trick is to invite them in first!
I just opened the door and she came in. She may be reconsidering the
outdoor cat thing when it's headed to 4 below Fahrenheit. A little house
with a heating pad only goes so far.
I think the other cat has a crawl space staked out. Last year when it was
20 below she disappeared for a week.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 715 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 01:45:01 |
| Calls: | 12,098 |
| Calls today: | 6 |
| Files: | 15,003 |
| Messages: | 6,517,865 |