• Re: New Pi 5 (Diversity - good or bad ?)

    From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Lars Poulsen on Sun Jan 12 14:00:57 2025
    On 12/01/2025 13:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 09:00:04 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
    So, for now, Manjaro and some Fedora. No one has yet made a clean >>>> Just Works port of Fedora for the Pi-5 alas ... something's WEIRD >>>> about that unit. They should drop it and make a "Pi4-Ultra" instead >>>> with a peppier version of that chip.

    On 1/11/25 2:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
    There's a new Pi 5 version with 16GB of RAM. It's not clear what the use >>> case is. Windows on ARM?

    I am glad I did not get a Pi-5. I have had enough problems getting
    the GUI to start up at boot time with my Pi-4B that I decided to just
    run it in headless server mode.

    The one thing I was missing on Pi-4 was a second ethernet port so I
    could use it as a firewall/edge router with room for all the monitoring capabilities I could dream up to implement with PCAP.

    Dongle-attached extra ethernet ports are a bit unstable in my
    experience. Often have spotty Linux driver support, often get
    redesigned with a different ethernet chip with no visible/noticeable
    change in product name or packaging. Being on an ARM system makes the problems stemming from this several steps worse.

    Plenty of Pi ethernet hats available...



    --
    The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
    diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
    into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
    what it actually is.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Lars Poulsen@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Jan 12 13:46:30 2025
    On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 09:00:04 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
    So, for now, Manjaro and some Fedora. No one has yet made a clean
    Just Works port of Fedora for the Pi-5 alas ... something's WEIRD
    about that unit. They should drop it and make a "Pi4-Ultra" instead
    with a peppier version of that chip.

    On 1/11/25 2:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
    There's a new Pi 5 version with 16GB of RAM. It's not clear what the use
    case is. Windows on ARM?

    I am glad I did not get a Pi-5. I have had enough problems getting
    the GUI to start up at boot time with my Pi-4B that I decided to just
    run it in headless server mode.

    The one thing I was missing on Pi-4 was a second ethernet port so I
    could use it as a firewall/edge router with room for all the monitoring capabilities I could dream up to implement with PCAP.

    Dongle-attached extra ethernet ports are a bit unstable in my
    experience. Often have spotty Linux driver support, often get
    redesigned with a different ethernet chip with no visible/noticeable
    change in product name or packaging. Being on an ARM system makes the
    problems stemming from this several steps worse.

    On 2025-01-12, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
    There's clearly something very convoluted about the
    way the CPU and maybe some peripherial chips start
    up on the Pi5. You could run many Linux distros on
    Pi's up thru the Pi4. Then ... the factory Deb deriv
    is pretty much IT unless you wanna suffer a lot.

    If you've ever watched a Pi update, note ALL the
    damned messages about special fix-ups and kernel
    hacks - I mean there's LOTS of them. The BCM2712
    do NOT boot smooth like earlier versions. I'll
    still say the Pi3s were the "most generally useful".

    As for the 16gb ... well, if it's not TOO much more
    expensive, may as well have it. However 4gb has
    always been more than enough for anything I've
    wanted to do with a Pi.

    Indeed, this sounds like a long-term support nightmare.
    Why did Broadcom do that? Or did SONY screw up in their specifications?

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  • From Lars Poulsen@21:1/5 to Lars Poulsen on Sun Jan 12 14:52:17 2025
    On 12/01/2025 13:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:
    The one thing I was missing on Pi-4 was a second ethernet port so I
    could use it as a firewall/edge router with room for all the monitoring
    capabilities I could dream up to implement with PCAP.

    Dongle-attached extra ethernet ports are a bit unstable in my
    experience. Often have spotty Linux driver support, often get
    redesigned with a different ethernet chip with no visible/noticeable
    change in product name or packaging. Being on an ARM system makes the
    problems stemming from this several steps worse.

    On 2025-01-12, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
    Plenty of Pi ethernet hats available...

    Yes, but then I'd have to find or make an enclosure that fits the board
    SET.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From root@21:1/5 to Lars Poulsen on Sun Jan 12 17:06:16 2025
    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am glad I did not get a Pi-5. I have had enough problems getting
    the GUI to start up at boot time with my Pi-4B that I decided to just
    run it in headless server mode.


    I can't understand your problems. I have two Pi4B and a Pi5 running
    24/7. It is convenient that they all take the same version of
    Raspian. @All three worked right up on the first boot. You do, however,
    have to make sure you have a good power unit.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From root@21:1/5 to Lars Poulsen on Sun Jan 12 17:09:10 2025
    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    Yes, but then I'd have to find or make an enclosure that fits the board
    SET.

    An enclosure is purely cosmetic. I attached my Pi5 to a piece of
    cardboard with zip-ties and hung it down the back of my desk.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to root on Sun Jan 12 19:42:42 2025
    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, root wrote:

    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    Yes, but then I'd have to find or make an enclosure that fits the board
    SET.

    An enclosure is purely cosmetic. I attached my Pi5 to a piece of
    cardboard with zip-ties and hung it down the back of my desk.


    My other TV computer, a radxa zero, dangles off the hdmi cable, and I've attached it to the back of the OLED tv with some tape. It's lived happily
    there for a year or so at the moment.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Heller@21:1/5 to root on Sun Jan 12 18:53:14 2025
    At Sun, 12 Jan 2025 17:06:16 -0000 (UTC) root <[email protected]> wrote:


    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am glad I did not get a Pi-5. I have had enough problems getting
    the GUI to start up at boot time with my Pi-4B that I decided to just
    run it in headless server mode.


    I can't understand your problems. I have two Pi4B and a Pi5 running
    24/7. It is convenient that they all take the same version of
    Raspian. @All three worked right up on the first boot. You do, however,
    have to make sure you have a good power unit.


    Good quality uSD cards are also good. SanDisk cards are very good.



    --
    Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
    Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
    http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
    [email protected] -- Webhosting Services

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Lars Poulsen on Sun Jan 12 20:23:05 2025
    On 12/01/2025 14:52, Lars Poulsen wrote:
    On 12/01/2025 13:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:
    The one thing I was missing on Pi-4 was a second ethernet port so I
    could use it as a firewall/edge router with room for all the monitoring
    capabilities I could dream up to implement with PCAP.

    Dongle-attached extra ethernet ports are a bit unstable in my
    experience. Often have spotty Linux driver support, often get
    redesigned with a different ethernet chip with no visible/noticeable
    change in product name or packaging. Being on an ARM system makes the
    problems stemming from this several steps worse.

    On 2025-01-12, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
    Plenty of Pi ethernet hats available...

    Yes, but then I'd have to find or make an enclosure that fits the board
    SET.
    That's what 3D printers are for...:-)

    --
    There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
    that sound good.

    Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to root on Sun Jan 12 20:24:41 2025
    On 12/01/2025 17:06, root wrote:
    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am glad I did not get a Pi-5. I have had enough problems getting
    the GUI to start up at boot time with my Pi-4B that I decided to just
    run it in headless server mode.


    I can't understand your problems. I have two Pi4B and a Pi5 running
    24/7. It is convenient that they all take the same version of
    Raspian. @All three worked right up on the first boot. You do, however,
    have to make sure you have a good power unit.
    My friend who has just left here, says that he too had a pi 5 that
    wouldn't start up. Startx took him into the wrong GUI. ldm failed.
    He reinstalled the lot and it now works...
    --
    "Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

    ― Confucius

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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to root on Sun Jan 12 21:32:24 2025
    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 17:06:16 -0000 (UTC), root wrote:

    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am glad I did not get a Pi-5. I have had enough problems getting the
    GUI to start up at boot time with my Pi-4B that I decided to just run
    it in headless server mode.


    I can't understand your problems. I have two Pi4B and a Pi5 running
    24/7. It is convenient that they all take the same version of Raspian.
    @All three worked right up on the first boot. You do, however,
    have to make sure you have a good power unit.

    My Pi5 is running the Debian based Raspberry Pi OS. It stable. Part of the Canakit was a power supply that meets the 5's requirements.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Pancho@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sun Jan 12 21:47:44 2025
    On 1/12/25 21:32, rbowman wrote:
    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 17:06:16 -0000 (UTC), root wrote:

    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am glad I did not get a Pi-5. I have had enough problems getting the
    GUI to start up at boot time with my Pi-4B that I decided to just run
    it in headless server mode.


    I can't understand your problems. I have two Pi4B and a Pi5 running
    24/7. It is convenient that they all take the same version of Raspian.
    @All three worked right up on the first boot. You do, however,
    have to make sure you have a good power unit.

    My Pi5 is running the Debian based Raspberry Pi OS. It stable. Part of the Canakit was a power supply that meets the 5's requirements.

    Yeah, mine was completely unstable before I got the official rPi5 PSU.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From root@21:1/5 to Lars Poulsen on Mon Jan 13 03:00:44 2025
    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    I did not mention that I run Fedora.

    Oh, big difference. I tried running a version of
    Slackware and gave that up. Raspian proves to
    me perfectly satisfactory for my Pi needs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Lars Poulsen@21:1/5 to root on Mon Jan 13 02:41:28 2025
    On 2025-01-12, root <[email protected]> wrote:
    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am glad I did not get a Pi-5. I have had enough problems getting
    the GUI to start up at boot time with my Pi-4B that I decided to just
    run it in headless server mode.


    I can't understand your problems. I have two Pi4B and a Pi5 running
    24/7. It is convenient that they all take the same version of
    Raspian. @All three worked right up on the first boot. You do, however,
    have to make sure you have a good power unit.

    I did not mention that I run Fedora.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Lars Poulsen on Sun Jan 12 23:29:04 2025
    On 1/12/25 9:41 PM, Lars Poulsen wrote:
    On 2025-01-12, root <[email protected]> wrote:
    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am glad I did not get a Pi-5. I have had enough problems getting
    the GUI to start up at boot time with my Pi-4B that I decided to just
    run it in headless server mode.


    I can't understand your problems. I have two Pi4B and a Pi5 running
    24/7. It is convenient that they all take the same version of
    Raspian. @All three worked right up on the first boot. You do, however,
    have to make sure you have a good power unit.

    I did not mention that I run Fedora.

    Pi4 runs a bunch of distros - Pi5 ... even after a
    year there's no "Just Works" Fedora install. CAN
    be done apparently, but it's all pain and many of
    your fixes are likely to vanish at the first update.
    The processor/accessories are just WEIRD on that board.
    I'll never buy another one.

    As suggested, Raspberry needs to dump the Pi5 and
    make a Pi4-Ultra instead. Any more raw computing
    power needed, use something else, you're more in
    the 'PC' range then - try BeeLink/BMax.

    This all is less a 'diversity' issue than a "poor
    thinking" issue by Pi. Felt they just HAD to come
    out with a New Model but ignored all the gotchas.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 12 23:51:53 2025
    On 1/12/25 1:42 PM, D wrote:


    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, root wrote:

    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    Yes, but then I'd have to find or make an enclosure that fits the board
    SET.

    An enclosure is purely cosmetic. I attached my Pi5 to a piece of
    cardboard with zip-ties and hung it down the back of my desk.


    My other TV computer, a radxa zero, dangles off the hdmi cable, and I've attached it to the back of the OLED tv with some tape. It's lived
    happily there for a year or so at the moment.

    Try Velcro or double-sided tape ... works great for
    sticking a Pi to whatever :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to Lars Poulsen on Mon Jan 13 00:31:54 2025
    On 1/12/25 9:52 AM, Lars Poulsen wrote:
    On 12/01/2025 13:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:
    The one thing I was missing on Pi-4 was a second ethernet port so I
    could use it as a firewall/edge router with room for all the monitoring
    capabilities I could dream up to implement with PCAP.

    Dongle-attached extra ethernet ports are a bit unstable in my
    experience. Often have spotty Linux driver support, often get
    redesigned with a different ethernet chip with no visible/noticeable
    change in product name or packaging. Being on an ARM system makes the
    problems stemming from this several steps worse.

    On 2025-01-12, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
    Plenty of Pi ethernet hats available...

    Yes, but then I'd have to find or make an enclosure that fits the board
    SET.

    Yea ... good point ... all the Pi boxes are only
    big enough to hold JUST the Pi ... no hats. You
    can find taller boxes for Arduino's but .......

    Anyway, from the Pi3 on you didn't really NEED
    an ethernet hat unless you needed multiple
    plugs - like for a router/firewall or something.
    See 'ipFire' or similar. Used it, worked good,
    FUNNY name :-)

    While attractive, some micro-PCs might be even
    better for that than a Pi. Check SuperMicro - they
    have some very small boards/boxes that are perfect
    for that kind of need. Impressive boards actually,
    connectors for interfaces even I'd never heard of.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Lars Poulsen on Mon Jan 13 06:24:33 2025
    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 02:41:28 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:

    On 2025-01-12, root <[email protected]> wrote:
    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am glad I did not get a Pi-5. I have had enough problems getting the
    GUI to start up at boot time with my Pi-4B that I decided to just run
    it in headless server mode.


    I can't understand your problems. I have two Pi4B and a Pi5 running
    24/7. It is convenient that they all take the same version of Raspian.
    @All three worked right up on the first boot. You do, however,
    have to make sure you have a good power unit.

    I did not mention that I run Fedora.

    Okay. The Canakit came with Raspberry Pi OS on a microSD. I'm lazy and it works. I've got too many distros already and didn't need another
    adventure.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jan 13 06:33:57 2025
    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 00:31:54 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

    While attractive, some micro-PCs might be even better for that than a
    Pi. Check SuperMicro - they have some very small boards/boxes that
    are perfect for that kind of need. Impressive boards actually,
    connectors for interfaces even I'd never heard of.

    SuperMicro the company that does blade servers? I didn't think small was
    in their vocabulary.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From D@21:1/5 to Robert Heller on Mon Jan 13 10:16:01 2025
    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, Robert Heller wrote:

    At Sun, 12 Jan 2025 17:06:16 -0000 (UTC) root <[email protected]> wrote:


    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am glad I did not get a Pi-5. I have had enough problems getting
    the GUI to start up at boot time with my Pi-4B that I decided to just
    run it in headless server mode.


    I can't understand your problems. I have two Pi4B and a Pi5 running
    24/7. It is convenient that they all take the same version of
    Raspian. @All three worked right up on the first boot. You do, however,
    have to make sure you have a good power unit.


    Good quality uSD cards are also good. SanDisk cards are very good.

    Are there any memory cards that are more resistant to corruption during
    power outtage?



    --
    Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
    Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services [email protected] -- Webhosting Services


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jan 13 10:32:05 2025
    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, [email protected] wrote:

    On 1/12/25 1:42 PM, D wrote:


    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, root wrote:

    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    Yes, but then I'd have to find or make an enclosure that fits the board >>>> SET.

    An enclosure is purely cosmetic. I attached my Pi5 to a piece of
    cardboard with zip-ties and hung it down the back of my desk.


    My other TV computer, a radxa zero, dangles off the hdmi cable, and I've
    attached it to the back of the OLED tv with some tape. It's lived happily
    there for a year or so at the moment.

    Try Velcro or double-sided tape ... works great for
    sticking a Pi to whatever :-)

    Once my wife complains too loudly, this is _exactly_ what I will try! My estimate is that the next time the tape let's go, and it sort of sticks
    out from behind the tv, that is the time I will be going down the velcro
    or double sided tape route. ;)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 10:51:35 2025
    On 13/01/2025 09:16, D wrote:
    Are there any memory cards that are more resistant to corruption during
    power outtage?

    I think its more the reverse, its during power on the problems arise, as
    they need fscking..

    ..Except mine doesn't. Since it is never written to. They key is to
    eliminate all writes to the SD card apart from unavoidable config
    changes. Stop logging or send it to a ram disk. If you need scratch
    files put those on ramdisk too.

    I've got a full record somewhere of everything I did to turn off logging
    or redirect it to a ram log

    If you can adjust your mindset to think of the SD card as EPROM, not a
    disk, it helps


    --
    In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
    gets full Marx.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Lars Poulsen@21:1/5 to Lars Poulsen on Mon Jan 13 13:06:04 2025
    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:
    Yes, but then I'd have to find or make an enclosure that fits the board
    SET.

    At Sun, 12 Jan 2025 17:09:10 -0000 (UTC) root <[email protected]> wrote:
    An enclosure is purely cosmetic. I attached my Pi5 to a piece of
    cardboard with zip-ties and hung it down the back of my desk.

    On 2025-01-12, Robert Heller <[email protected]> wrote:
    Mine is mounted on a VESA mount on the back of my TV (which is also my monitor).

    I have this apparently obsolete idea that a CPU should have a heatsink
    and a fan (even if it might never need to turn on), and naked PCB
    assemblies scare the wife (and her cleaning lady). And the wiring closet
    (the 10 inches under the bottom shelf in a hallway closet) where my
    router, wiring panel and root switch live) is a dark and tangled place
    where mice may occasionally crawl up from under the house.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Lars Poulsen@21:1/5 to Lars Poulsen on Mon Jan 13 13:40:42 2025
    On 12/01/2025 14:52, Lars Poulsen wrote:
    Yes, but then I'd have to find or make an enclosure that fits the board
    SET.

    On 2025-01-12, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
    That's what 3D printers are for...:-)

    Sorry, mechanical design, 3D drafting - not in my skill set. And
    neither I nor my friends have a 3D printer. And while it might be
    interesting to learn, it is too much of a detour at my age of 74.
    I could just buy a Protectli like the one I use at the office, but
    things for the home should be cheap.

    https://www.amazon.com/Firewall-Appliance-Gigabit-Celeron-AES-NI/dp/B07G9NHRGQ/

    Looking at this, I see they have a two-port version for USD 219 with
    32GB onbord storage, or USD 259 with 250GB NVMe. That is tempting.
    The 4-porter at the office was a lot more expensive than that.

    Spec says USB type C console port. I wonder how that works. Intended for
    a USB-to-RS232 adapter?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Lars Poulsen@21:1/5 to root on Mon Jan 13 13:47:53 2025
    On 2025-01-13, root <[email protected]> wrote:
    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    I did not mention that I run Fedora.

    Oh, big difference. I tried running a version of
    Slackware and gave that up. Raspian proves to
    me perfectly satisfactory for my Pi needs.

    It simplifies my life when all my Linux systems have the same system administration interfaces. I made the mistake of putting Centos 7 on a Wordpress server in the cloud that I set up for my daughter's kiddie
    pictures. It is now orphaned, and if I want to update it, I would have
    to reverse engineer her customizations of Wordpress to back them up so I
    could do a complete reinstall transparently (to her).

    Anyway, my Pi-4 toy is completely stable with a headless Fedora Server
    install; it survived several in-place version upgrades, and is currently running F41.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Robert Heller@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jan 13 16:17:38 2025
    At Mon, 13 Jan 2025 10:16:01 +0100 D <[email protected]> wrote:




    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, Robert Heller wrote:

    At Sun, 12 Jan 2025 17:06:16 -0000 (UTC) root <[email protected]> wrote:


    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    I am glad I did not get a Pi-5. I have had enough problems getting
    the GUI to start up at boot time with my Pi-4B that I decided to just
    run it in headless server mode.


    I can't understand your problems. I have two Pi4B and a Pi5 running
    24/7. It is convenient that they all take the same version of
    Raspian. @All three worked right up on the first boot. You do, however,
    have to make sure you have a good power unit.


    Good quality uSD cards are also good. SanDisk cards are very good.

    Are there any memory cards that are more resistant to corruption during
    power outtage?

    I have several Pis (of various vintage), and some other SBCs. All have
    SanDisk cards and all have been power cycled on occasion, and none have ever been corrupted.




    --
    Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
    Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services [email protected] -- Webhosting Services




    --
    Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
    Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
    http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
    [email protected] -- Webhosting Services

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Lars Poulsen on Mon Jan 13 17:08:24 2025
    On 13/01/2025 13:40, Lars Poulsen wrote:
    On 12/01/2025 14:52, Lars Poulsen wrote:
    Yes, but then I'd have to find or make an enclosure that fits the board
    SET.

    On 2025-01-12, The Natural Philosopher <[email protected]d> wrote:
    That's what 3D printers are for...:-)

    Sorry, mechanical design, 3D drafting - not in my skill set. And
    neither I nor my friends have a 3D printer. And while it might be
    interesting to learn, it is too much of a detour at my age of 74.
    I could just buy a Protectli like the one I use at the office, but
    things for the home should be cheap.

    Well I am seventy four too...

    https://www.amazon.com/Firewall-Appliance-Gigabit-Celeron-AES-NI/dp/B07G9NHRGQ/

    Looking at this, I see they have a two-port version for USD 219 with
    32GB onbord storage, or USD 259 with 250GB NVMe. That is tempting.
    The 4-porter at the office was a lot more expensive than that.

    Spec says USB type C console port. I wonder how that works. Intended for
    a USB-to-RS232 adapter?

    --
    In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act.

    - George Orwell

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Heller@21:1/5 to Lars Poulsen on Mon Jan 13 16:17:40 2025
    At Mon, 13 Jan 2025 13:06:04 -0000 (UTC) Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:


    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:
    Yes, but then I'd have to find or make an enclosure that fits the board >> > SET.

    At Sun, 12 Jan 2025 17:09:10 -0000 (UTC) root <[email protected]> wrote:
    An enclosure is purely cosmetic. I attached my Pi5 to a piece of
    cardboard with zip-ties and hung it down the back of my desk.

    On 2025-01-12, Robert Heller <[email protected]> wrote:
    Mine is mounted on a VESA mount on the back of my TV (which is also my monitor).

    I have this apparently obsolete idea that a CPU should have a heatsink
    and a fan (even if it might never need to turn on), and naked PCB
    assemblies scare the wife (and her cleaning lady). And the wiring closet
    (the 10 inches under the bottom shelf in a hallway closet) where my
    router, wiring panel and root switch live) is a dark and tangled place
    where mice may occasionally crawl up from under the house.

    My Pi4 and Pi5 both have heatsinks and fans. The Pi5 also has a PCI/M.2 "HAT" with a SSD. It is probably a good thing that your wife & cleaning lady give the Pi a wide berth. Somehow I don't think cleaning fluids would be good for it.




    --
    Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
    Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
    http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
    [email protected] -- Webhosting Services

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Mon Jan 13 20:48:27 2025
    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 13/01/2025 09:16, D wrote:
    Are there any memory cards that are more resistant to corruption during
    power outtage?

    I think its more the reverse, its during power on the problems arise, as they need fscking..

    ..Except mine doesn't. Since it is never written to. They key is to eliminate all writes to the SD card apart from unavoidable config changes. Stop logging or send it to a ram disk. If you need scratch files put those on ramdisk too.

    I've got a full record somewhere of everything I did to turn off logging or redirect it to a ram log

    If you can adjust your mindset to think of the SD card as EPROM, not a disk, it helps

    This is good advice, and I did follow some random tutorial a long time
    ago, but since I reinstall I am certain those changes are no longer
    active. Good point and thank you for the reminder! I will have to redo the minimization of all logging!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to Lars Poulsen on Mon Jan 13 20:51:40 2025
    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:

    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:
    Yes, but then I'd have to find or make an enclosure that fits the board >>>> SET.

    At Sun, 12 Jan 2025 17:09:10 -0000 (UTC) root <[email protected]> wrote:
    An enclosure is purely cosmetic. I attached my Pi5 to a piece of
    cardboard with zip-ties and hung it down the back of my desk.

    On 2025-01-12, Robert Heller <[email protected]> wrote:
    Mine is mounted on a VESA mount on the back of my TV (which is also my
    monitor).

    I have this apparently obsolete idea that a CPU should have a heatsink
    and a fan (even if it might never need to turn on), and naked PCB
    assemblies scare the wife (and her cleaning lady). And the wiring closet
    (the 10 inches under the bottom shelf in a hallway closet) where my
    router, wiring panel and root switch live) is a dark and tangled place
    where mice may occasionally crawl up from under the house.


    The mice are easy to deal with. I have put up tiny portraits of Donald
    Trump at mouse height and that scares away the mice.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Lars Poulsen on Mon Jan 13 22:56:06 2025
    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 13:47:53 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:

    It simplifies my life when all my Linux systems have the same system administration interfaces. I made the mistake of putting Centos 7 on a Wordpress server in the cloud that I set up for my daughter's kiddie pictures. It is now orphaned, and if I want to update it, I would have
    to reverse engineer her customizations of Wordpress to back them up so I could do a complete reinstall transparently (to her).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHGTs1NSB1s

    I play with different distributions but I'm the same. I just want
    something to install so I can get on with life. This box is Ubuntu which
    isn't my favorite. However the first attempt to install Kubuntu didn't go
    well and I had a Ubuntu iso on hand.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 23:03:02 2025
    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 10:32:05 +0100, D wrote:

    Once my wife complains too loudly, this is _exactly_ what I will try! My estimate is that the next time the tape let's go, and it sort of sticks
    out from behind the tv, that is the time I will be going down the velcro
    or double sided tape route.

    amazon.com/VELCRO-Brand-Sticky-Fasteners-Perfect/dp/B000TGUOCO/

    I've had excellent luck with these and they're easy to find locally. If anything they stick a little too good although I've never had the adhesive
    part pull away.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Heller@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jan 14 00:52:42 2025
    At 13 Jan 2025 23:03:02 GMT rbowman <[email protected]> wrote:


    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 10:32:05 +0100, D wrote:

    Once my wife complains too loudly, this is _exactly_ what I will try! My estimate is that the next time the tape let's go, and it sort of sticks
    out from behind the tv, that is the time I will be going down the velcro
    or double sided tape route.

    amazon.com/VELCRO-Brand-Sticky-Fasteners-Perfect/dp/B000TGUOCO/

    I've had excellent luck with these and they're easy to find locally. If anything they stick a little too good although I've never had the adhesive part pull away.

    This is what I have, unfortunately, Adafruit no longer stocks it.

    (Not that it would be hard to make, say out of 1/8" thick birch plywood or lexan or PVC, etc.)

    https://www.adafruit.com/product/2534





    --
    Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
    Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
    http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
    [email protected] -- Webhosting Services

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 13 21:11:08 2025
    On 1/13/25 4:32 AM, D wrote:


    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, [email protected] wrote:

    On 1/12/25 1:42 PM, D wrote:


    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, root wrote:

    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    Yes, but then I'd have to find or make an enclosure that fits the
    board
    SET.

    An enclosure is purely cosmetic. I attached my Pi5 to a piece of
    cardboard with zip-ties and hung it down the back of my desk.


    My other TV computer, a radxa zero, dangles off the hdmi cable, and
    I've attached it to the back of the OLED tv with some tape. It's
    lived happily there for a year or so at the moment.

     Try Velcro or double-sided tape ... works great for
     sticking a Pi to whatever  :-)

    Once my wife complains too loudly, this is _exactly_ what I will try! My estimate is that the next time the tape let's go, and it sort of sticks
    out from behind the tv, that is the time I will be going down the velcro
    or double sided tape route. ;)

    I think it was rbowman I was talking to - the
    boss wanted 'muzak' for the office. So, I took
    an old Pi-1/256mb and a few long muzak tracks
    from 70s shopping malls and sneaked the wiring
    into the PA system. The tracks rotate every
    month. Worked for a dozen years and likely STILL
    does - so long as none of the muzak haters FIND
    the thing.

    There was about an inch behind where the PBX system
    was ... so I velcroed the unit to the back of the
    PBX box where it's almost perfectly invisible :-)

    Proper muzak - you shouldn't actually HEAR it unless
    you TRY. Keeps some little corner of the brain occupied
    and, according to some, thus actually improves performance
    on other tasks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Robert Heller on Tue Jan 14 04:13:57 2025
    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 00:52:42 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

    This is what I have, unfortunately, Adafruit no longer stocks it.

    (Not that it would be hard to make, say out of 1/8" thick birch plywood
    or lexan or PVC, etc.)

    https://www.adafruit.com/product/2534

    https://vilros.com/products/vesa-mount-for-raspberry-pi

    I've never ordered from Vilros, but $10 with free shipping sounds good.
    Amazon carries a lot of Vilros stuff and it was a toss between that and
    Canakit for me, but not the mount. The mounts they do have are more
    expensive.

    It's been my sad experience that unless I have the materials laying around
    DIY projects end up costing more in the long run.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Charlie Gibbs@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jan 14 12:28:58 2025
    On 2025-01-14, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

    I think it was rbowman I was talking to - the
    boss wanted 'muzak' for the office. So, I took
    an old Pi-1/256mb and a few long muzak tracks
    from 70s shopping malls and sneaked the wiring
    into the PA system. The tracks rotate every
    month. Worked for a dozen years and likely STILL
    does - so long as none of the muzak haters FIND
    the thing.

    :-)

    I was once in a store where the muzak equivalenet was
    provided by an FM radio mounted up on a pillar, tuned
    to the local "soft rock" station. (Soft rock: the muzak
    of the '90s.) I guess a lot of the employees were muzak
    haters, since the radio had a handmade sign taped to it:
    "Do NOT change the station!"

    Pet peeve: such radios (whether playing muzak or not)
    with a single speaker at one end of the store hooked up
    to the left channel, and another single speaker at the
    other end of the store hooked up to the right channel.
    This guarantees that no matter where you are,
    you're only going to hear half the music.

    There was about an inch behind where the PBX system
    was ... so I velcroed the unit to the back of the
    PBX box where it's almost perfectly invisible :-)

    Proper muzak - you shouldn't actually HEAR it unless
    you TRY. Keeps some little corner of the brain occupied
    and, according to some, thus actually improves performance
    on other tasks.

    Ugh. I can't imagine being exposed to that stuff day in and
    day out. It's toxic, and will turn your brain into guacamole.
    But aside from that, you have to feel sorry for the musicians
    who actually record the stuff. Could you imagine using your
    talents playing music that nobody will ever really _listen_ to?
    As for semi-audible music, it drives me nuts - an unreasonably
    large portion of my brain devotes itself to trying to figure out
    what's playing, leaving me mentally exhausted and pissed off.

    In the late '90s / early noughties, a cow orker was into the
    local "soft rock" station (Vancouver's first FM station, which
    had been playing muzak since about 1958, had gone over to the
    '90s counterpart, see above). I brought my own radio and a set
    of headphones to work, and treated them as life-support equipment.
    When anyone asked, I explained that I didn't want to spend my time
    cleaning up my radio after Mariah Carey had bled all over it.

    Back around 1980 I came across the real thing, in a storefront with
    a sign saying "Music by Muzak". At any time of the day or night you
    could look through the window and see huge tape reels slowly turning...

    --
    /~\ Charlie Gibbs |
    \ / <[email protected]d> | Elevator music
    X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | brings me down.
    / \ if you read it the right way. |

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to rbowman on Tue Jan 14 21:55:20 2025
    On Tue, 13 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 10:32:05 +0100, D wrote:

    Once my wife complains too loudly, this is _exactly_ what I will try! My
    estimate is that the next time the tape let's go, and it sort of sticks
    out from behind the tv, that is the time I will be going down the velcro
    or double sided tape route.

    amazon.com/VELCRO-Brand-Sticky-Fasteners-Perfect/dp/B000TGUOCO/

    I've had excellent luck with these and they're easy to find locally. If anything they stick a little too good although I've never had the adhesive part pull away.

    Looks just about right!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Jan 14 22:00:03 2025
    This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
    while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025, [email protected] wrote:

    On 1/13/25 4:32 AM, D wrote:


    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, [email protected] wrote:

    On 1/12/25 1:42 PM, D wrote:


    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, root wrote:

    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    Yes, but then I'd have to find or make an enclosure that fits the board >>>>>> SET.

    An enclosure is purely cosmetic. I attached my Pi5 to a piece of
    cardboard with zip-ties and hung it down the back of my desk.


    My other TV computer, a radxa zero, dangles off the hdmi cable, and I've >>>> attached it to the back of the OLED tv with some tape. It's lived happily >>>> there for a year or so at the moment.

     Try Velcro or double-sided tape ... works great for
     sticking a Pi to whatever  :-)

    Once my wife complains too loudly, this is _exactly_ what I will try! My
    estimate is that the next time the tape let's go, and it sort of sticks out >> from behind the tv, that is the time I will be going down the velcro or
    double sided tape route. ;)

    I think it was rbowman I was talking to - the
    boss wanted 'muzak' for the office. So, I took
    an old Pi-1/256mb and a few long muzak tracks
    from 70s shopping malls and sneaked the wiring
    into the PA system. The tracks rotate every
    month. Worked for a dozen years and likely STILL
    does - so long as none of the muzak haters FIND
    the thing.

    There was about an inch behind where the PBX system
    was ... so I velcroed the unit to the back of the
    PBX box where it's almost perfectly invisible :-)

    Proper muzak - you shouldn't actually HEAR it unless
    you TRY. Keeps some little corner of the brain occupied
    and, according to some, thus actually improves performance
    on other tasks.


    It could very well become the last piece of operating machinery on planet earth. Could you imagine the sun expanding, swallowing the earth while
    your little muzak machine plays the perfect muzak for the event? ;)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 14 23:15:14 2025
    On 1/14/25 4:00 PM, D wrote:


    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025, [email protected] wrote:

    On 1/13/25 4:32 AM, D wrote:


    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, [email protected] wrote:

    On 1/12/25 1:42 PM, D wrote:


    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, root wrote:

    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    Yes, but then I'd have to find or make an enclosure that fits the >>>>>>> board
    SET.

    An enclosure is purely cosmetic. I attached my Pi5 to a piece of
    cardboard with zip-ties and hung it down the back of my desk.


    My other TV computer, a radxa zero, dangles off the hdmi cable, and
    I've attached it to the back of the OLED tv with some tape. It's
    lived happily there for a year or so at the moment.

     Try Velcro or double-sided tape ... works great for
     sticking a Pi to whatever  :-)

    Once my wife complains too loudly, this is _exactly_ what I will try!
    My estimate is that the next time the tape let's go, and it sort of
    sticks out from behind the tv, that is the time I will be going down
    the velcro or double sided tape route. ;)

     I think it was rbowman I was talking to - the
     boss wanted 'muzak' for the office. So, I took
     an old Pi-1/256mb and a few long muzak tracks
     from 70s shopping malls and sneaked the wiring
     into the PA system. The tracks rotate every
     month. Worked for a dozen years and likely STILL
     does - so long as none of the muzak haters FIND
     the thing.

     There was about an inch behind where the PBX system
     was ... so I velcroed the unit to the back of the
     PBX box where it's almost perfectly invisible  :-)

     Proper muzak - you shouldn't actually HEAR it unless
     you TRY. Keeps some little corner of the brain occupied
     and, according to some, thus actually improves performance
     on other tasks.


    It could very well become the last piece of operating machinery on
    planet earth. Could you imagine the sun expanding, swallowing the earth
    while your little muzak machine plays the perfect muzak for the event? ;)


    Heh, heh ... it'd make a fun sci-fi short story :-)

    But what would eventually-passing aliens THINK of
    us upon hearing an endless muzak track ???

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Charlie Gibbs@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jan 15 06:16:45 2025
    On 2025-01-14, D <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025, [email protected] wrote:

    I think it was rbowman I was talking to - the
    boss wanted 'muzak' for the office. So, I took
    an old Pi-1/256mb and a few long muzak tracks
    from 70s shopping malls and sneaked the wiring
    into the PA system. The tracks rotate every
    month. Worked for a dozen years and likely STILL
    does - so long as none of the muzak haters FIND
    the thing.

    There was about an inch behind where the PBX system
    was ... so I velcroed the unit to the back of the
    PBX box where it's almost perfectly invisible :-)

    Proper muzak - you shouldn't actually HEAR it unless
    you TRY. Keeps some little corner of the brain occupied
    and, according to some, thus actually improves performance
    on other tasks.

    It could very well become the last piece of operating machinery on planet earth. Could you imagine the sun expanding, swallowing the earth while
    your little muzak machine plays the perfect muzak for the event? ;)

    That reminds me of the end of the post-acopalytic novel _Level 7_,
    by Mordecai Roshwald.

    --
    /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
    \ / <[email protected]d> | growth is the ideology
    X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
    / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Charlie Gibbs@21:1/5 to Charlie Gibbs on Wed Jan 15 06:18:05 2025
    On 2025-01-15, Charlie Gibbs <[email protected]d> wrote:

    That reminds me of the end of the post-acopalytic novel _Level 7_,
    by Mordecai Roshwald.

    Post-apocalyptic. Damned typos.

    --
    /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
    \ / <[email protected]d> | growth is the ideology
    X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
    / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jan 15 10:07:46 2025
    This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
    while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025, [email protected] wrote:

    On 1/14/25 4:00 PM, D wrote:


    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025, [email protected] wrote:

    On 1/13/25 4:32 AM, D wrote:


    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, [email protected] wrote:

    On 1/12/25 1:42 PM, D wrote:


    On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, root wrote:

    Lars Poulsen <[email protected]> wrote:

    Yes, but then I'd have to find or make an enclosure that fits the >>>>>>>> board
    SET.

    An enclosure is purely cosmetic. I attached my Pi5 to a piece of >>>>>>> cardboard with zip-ties and hung it down the back of my desk.


    My other TV computer, a radxa zero, dangles off the hdmi cable, and >>>>>> I've attached it to the back of the OLED tv with some tape. It's lived >>>>>> happily there for a year or so at the moment.

     Try Velcro or double-sided tape ... works great for
     sticking a Pi to whatever  :-)

    Once my wife complains too loudly, this is _exactly_ what I will try! My >>>> estimate is that the next time the tape let's go, and it sort of sticks >>>> out from behind the tv, that is the time I will be going down the velcro >>>> or double sided tape route. ;)

     I think it was rbowman I was talking to - the
     boss wanted 'muzak' for the office. So, I took
     an old Pi-1/256mb and a few long muzak tracks
     from 70s shopping malls and sneaked the wiring
     into the PA system. The tracks rotate every
     month. Worked for a dozen years and likely STILL
     does - so long as none of the muzak haters FIND
     the thing.

     There was about an inch behind where the PBX system
     was ... so I velcroed the unit to the back of the
     PBX box where it's almost perfectly invisible  :-)

     Proper muzak - you shouldn't actually HEAR it unless
     you TRY. Keeps some little corner of the brain occupied
     and, according to some, thus actually improves performance
     on other tasks.


    It could very well become the last piece of operating machinery on planet
    earth. Could you imagine the sun expanding, swallowing the earth while your >> little muzak machine plays the perfect muzak for the event? ;)


    Heh, heh ... it'd make a fun sci-fi short story :-)

    But what would eventually-passing aliens THINK of
    us upon hearing an endless muzak track ???


    I think you just sovled Fermis paradox. They probably put up warning signs around this corners of the universe. ;)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to Charlie Gibbs on Wed Jan 15 10:13:18 2025
    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

    On 2025-01-14, D <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025, [email protected] wrote:

    I think it was rbowman I was talking to - the
    boss wanted 'muzak' for the office. So, I took
    an old Pi-1/256mb and a few long muzak tracks
    from 70s shopping malls and sneaked the wiring
    into the PA system. The tracks rotate every
    month. Worked for a dozen years and likely STILL
    does - so long as none of the muzak haters FIND
    the thing.

    There was about an inch behind where the PBX system
    was ... so I velcroed the unit to the back of the
    PBX box where it's almost perfectly invisible :-)

    Proper muzak - you shouldn't actually HEAR it unless
    you TRY. Keeps some little corner of the brain occupied
    and, according to some, thus actually improves performance
    on other tasks.

    It could very well become the last piece of operating machinery on planet
    earth. Could you imagine the sun expanding, swallowing the earth while
    your little muzak machine plays the perfect muzak for the event? ;)

    That reminds me of the end of the post-acopalytic novel _Level 7_,
    by Mordecai Roshwald.

    Sigh... makes one despair of ever writing an original science fiction
    novel! =(

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 00:28:17 2025
    On 1/15/25 4:13 AM, D wrote:


    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

    On 2025-01-14, D <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025, [email protected] wrote:

     I think it was rbowman I was talking to - the
     boss wanted 'muzak' for the office. So, I took
     an old Pi-1/256mb and a few long muzak tracks
     from 70s shopping malls and sneaked the wiring
     into the PA system. The tracks rotate every
     month. Worked for a dozen years and likely STILL
     does - so long as none of the muzak haters FIND
     the thing.

     There was about an inch behind where the PBX system
     was ... so I velcroed the unit to the back of the
     PBX box where it's almost perfectly invisible  :-)

     Proper muzak - you shouldn't actually HEAR it unless
     you TRY. Keeps some little corner of the brain occupied
     and, according to some, thus actually improves performance
     on other tasks.

    It could very well become the last piece of operating machinery on
    planet
    earth. Could you imagine the sun expanding, swallowing the earth while
    your little muzak machine plays the perfect muzak for the event? ;)

    That reminds me of the end of the post-acopalytic novel _Level 7_,
    by Mordecai Roshwald.

    Sigh... makes one despair of ever writing an original science fiction
    novel! =(


    Hard to do now ... most everything will derive from
    many other existing sources/premises even if you try
    to avoid it. Kinda like rock/pop now ... last even
    remotely 'different' sound was 'grunge' - and that
    was 'remotely'.

    Someone from Pink Floyd once commented that the reason
    their music sounded so "different" was mostly because
    their skills with their instruments was initially SO
    poor - they COULDN'T emulate the popular bands :-)

    Something really new - beyond 'space' and 'multiverses',
    'galactic empires', dubious 'time travel' and 'AI' - will
    have to be on the horizon before sci-fi can move up a notch.
    All that stuff is old and creaky and over-exploited.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to rbowman on Thu Jan 16 04:18:17 2025
    On 1/13/25 11:13 PM, rbowman wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 00:52:42 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

    This is what I have, unfortunately, Adafruit no longer stocks it.

    (Not that it would be hard to make, say out of 1/8" thick birch plywood
    or lexan or PVC, etc.)

    https://www.adafruit.com/product/2534

    https://vilros.com/products/vesa-mount-for-raspberry-pi

    I've never ordered from Vilros, but $10 with free shipping sounds good. Amazon carries a lot of Vilros stuff and it was a toss between that and Canakit for me, but not the mount. The mounts they do have are more expensive.

    It's been my sad experience that unless I have the materials laying around DIY projects end up costing more in the long run.

    I have bought 'Vilros' kits. Nothing really
    bad there. More or less like CanaKit.

    But DO be sure you don't get the METAL case
    or your wi-fi signal will be significantly
    degraded. Just sayin'

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Charlie Gibbs@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jan 16 11:27:24 2025
    On 2025-01-16, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

    Someone from Pink Floyd once commented that the reason
    their music sounded so "different" was mostly because
    their skills with their instruments was initially SO
    poor - they COULDN'T emulate the popular bands :-)

    I heard that Queen's distinctive guitar sound came from
    the fact that the only guitar and amp that Brian May
    could originally afford was a cheap piece of crap.

    Something really new - beyond 'space' and 'multiverses',
    'galactic empires', dubious 'time travel' and 'AI' - will
    have to be on the horizon before sci-fi can move up a notch.
    All that stuff is old and creaky and over-exploited.

    Cory Doctorow has been writing some frighteningly prophetic
    stories. Some, like _Radicalized_, are already coming true.

    --
    /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
    \ / <[email protected]d> | growth is the ideology
    X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
    / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Charlie Gibbs on Thu Jan 16 14:39:00 2025
    On 16/01/2025 11:27, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
    On 2025-01-16, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

    Someone from Pink Floyd once commented that the reason
    their music sounded so "different" was mostly because
    their skills with their instruments was initially SO
    poor - they COULDN'T emulate the popular bands :-)

    I heard that Queen's distinctive guitar sound came from
    the fact that the only guitar and amp that Brian May
    could originally afford was a cheap piece of crap.

    No. He (and his dad) built his own guitar, but I think the pickups
    were P90s. The amp was always a (number of) Vox AC30(s), well known for
    a unique sound due to stuff you wouldn't be interested in

    --
    “A leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
    who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
    “We did this ourselves.”

    ― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Thu Jan 16 16:57:54 2025
    This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
    while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025, [email protected] wrote:

    On 1/15/25 4:13 AM, D wrote:


    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

    On 2025-01-14, D <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025, [email protected] wrote:

     I think it was rbowman I was talking to - the
     boss wanted 'muzak' for the office. So, I took
     an old Pi-1/256mb and a few long muzak tracks
     from 70s shopping malls and sneaked the wiring
     into the PA system. The tracks rotate every
     month. Worked for a dozen years and likely STILL
     does - so long as none of the muzak haters FIND
     the thing.

     There was about an inch behind where the PBX system
     was ... so I velcroed the unit to the back of the
     PBX box where it's almost perfectly invisible  :-)

     Proper muzak - you shouldn't actually HEAR it unless
     you TRY. Keeps some little corner of the brain occupied
     and, according to some, thus actually improves performance
     on other tasks.

    It could very well become the last piece of operating machinery on planet >>>> earth. Could you imagine the sun expanding, swallowing the earth while >>>> your little muzak machine plays the perfect muzak for the event? ;)

    That reminds me of the end of the post-acopalytic novel _Level 7_,
    by Mordecai Roshwald.

    Sigh... makes one despair of ever writing an original science fiction
    novel! =(


    Hard to do now ... most everything will derive from
    many other existing sources/premises even if you try
    to avoid it. Kinda like rock/pop now ... last even
    remotely 'different' sound was 'grunge' - and that
    was 'remotely'.

    Hmm, I think going full circle is then the way to go. Dig up a concept
    that has been forgotten for a 100 years or so, and perhaps it will be nice
    and fresh! ;)

    Two books on that theme are Flatland which is about a 2d world and adding
    a few dimensions instead, there was a book by Greg Egan I think, which was about uploaded virtual entities. Cannot remember the name at the moment. I
    like that concept! I'm currently watching season 2 of pantheon, and it's
    going downhill. In the virtual world they are using way too many physical shortcuts to illustrate fights etc. It can of course be argued that the
    brains of the virtual entities have not yet adapter, but I think that's a
    lazy excuse. It would be interesting to think about if it would be
    possible to represent virtual uploaded entities in a way that might make
    them seem more native to their world, instead of just reusing our physical world for easy comprehension.

    Someone from Pink Floyd once commented that the reason
    their music sounded so "different" was mostly because
    their skills with their instruments was initially SO
    poor - they COULDN'T emulate the popular bands :-)

    Something really new - beyond 'space' and 'multiverses',
    'galactic empires', dubious 'time travel' and 'AI' - will
    have to be on the horizon before sci-fi can move up a notch.
    All that stuff is old and creaky and over-exploited.

    Easy! Meta-multiverse, that's where the fun will be! Multiverse is for
    nerds! ;) Teilhardt de Jardin (or however it is spelled) tried a nice
    merge of spirituality and sci fi, and I just finished reading Radio free albemuth which had a nice sci fi take on christianity. Was interesting to
    read up on the story that parts of it are actually auto biographical from
    the point of view of Philip K. Dick.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 16 20:59:03 2025
    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 16:57:54 +0100, D wrote:

    Easy! Meta-multiverse, that's where the fun will be! Multiverse is for
    nerds! Teilhardt de Jardin (or however it is spelled) tried a nice
    merge of spirituality and sci fi, and I just finished reading Radio free albemuth which had a nice sci fi take on christianity. Was interesting
    to read up on the story that parts of it are actually auto biographical
    from the point of view of Philip K. Dick.

    Teilhard's mix kept him in hot water. His books never quite made it to the Index but he was not allowed to publish during his lifetime.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Fri Jan 17 01:01:03 2025
    On 1/16/25 9:39 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 16/01/2025 11:27, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
    On 2025-01-16, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

        Someone from Pink Floyd once commented that the reason
        their music sounded so "different" was mostly because
        their skills with their instruments was initially SO
        poor - they COULDN'T emulate the popular bands  :-)

    I heard that Queen's distinctive guitar sound came from
    the fact that the only guitar and amp that Brian May
    could originally afford was a cheap piece of crap.

    No. He (and his dad)  built his  own guitar, but I think the pickups
    were P90s. The amp was always a (number of)  Vox AC30(s), well known for
    a unique sound due to stuff you wouldn't be interested in

    Hey, we're tekkies here - we're interested in lots
    of stuff :-)

    From May's sound, it's clear the amp has a somewhat
    exaggerated higher-end response with some interesting
    harmonics. A lot of the older transistor amps had
    a kinda 'hard' sound too and kinda heavier on the
    odd harmonics. Dunno if that was inherent, or
    by-design - intentionally emulating the AC30 sound.

    The Pink Floyd story IS interesting though. They
    were kinda good MUSICIANS, but kinda CRAP with
    their chosen instruments. Created something very
    different from the usual mix ..... I wonder if
    an 'AI' would have done the same, or striven
    for technical accuracy above all else ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 17 01:41:43 2025
    On 1/16/25 10:57 AM, D wrote:


    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025, [email protected] wrote:

    On 1/15/25 4:13 AM, D wrote:


    On Wed, 15 Jan 2025, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

    On 2025-01-14, D <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Mon, 13 Jan 2025, [email protected] wrote:

     I think it was rbowman I was talking to - the
     boss wanted 'muzak' for the office. So, I took
     an old Pi-1/256mb and a few long muzak tracks
     from 70s shopping malls and sneaked the wiring
     into the PA system. The tracks rotate every
     month. Worked for a dozen years and likely STILL
     does - so long as none of the muzak haters FIND
     the thing.

     There was about an inch behind where the PBX system
     was ... so I velcroed the unit to the back of the
     PBX box where it's almost perfectly invisible  :-)

     Proper muzak - you shouldn't actually HEAR it unless
     you TRY. Keeps some little corner of the brain occupied
     and, according to some, thus actually improves performance
     on other tasks.

    It could very well become the last piece of operating machinery on
    planet
    earth. Could you imagine the sun expanding, swallowing the earth while >>>>> your little muzak machine plays the perfect muzak for the event? ;)

    That reminds me of the end of the post-acopalytic novel _Level 7_,
    by Mordecai Roshwald.

    Sigh... makes one despair of ever writing an original science fiction
    novel! =(


     Hard to do now ... most everything will derive from
     many other existing sources/premises even if you try
     to avoid it. Kinda like rock/pop now ... last even
     remotely 'different' sound was 'grunge' - and that
     was 'remotely'.

    Hmm, I think going full circle is then the way to go. Dig up a concept
    that has been forgotten for a 100 years or so, and perhaps it will be
    nice and fresh! ;)


    Not a bad idea - although even using that would ultimately
    be 'derivative'.

    There was some good pop music 100+ ago - including early
    jazz/blues adaptations like 'ragtime'. COULD be kinda
    punched-up.

    Humans are 'creative' - but not infinitely creative.
    Once in a while we'll hit on something 'new' - but,
    due to exposure/recordings that's getting more rare.

    I recall Paul Simon going to Africa in order to find
    some 'new' sounds. Some of it worked, some didn't.


    Two books on that theme are Flatland which is about a 2d world and
    adding a few dimensions instead, there was a book by Greg Egan I think,
    which was about uploaded virtual entities. Cannot remember the name at
    the moment. I like that concept! I'm currently watching season 2 of
    pantheon, and it's going downhill. In the virtual world they are using
    way too many physical shortcuts to illustrate fights etc. It can of
    course be argued that the brains of the virtual entities have not yet adapter, but I think that's a lazy excuse. It would be interesting to
    think about if it would be possible to represent virtual uploaded
    entities in a way that might make them seem more native to their world, instead of just reusing our physical world for easy comprehension.


    "FlatLand" is one of my faves. A much later writer did
    "SphereLand" - delving into four dimensions.

    What does a passing hypersphere look like ... like a
    dot, then a bigger and bigger sphere - then a smaller
    and smaller sphere - disappearing as a dot :-)

    You'll have to look it up ... there was an author,
    late 19th or early 20th, who made a book mostly
    full of figures/drawings he claimed - after close
    study - would help people wrap their brains around
    4th dimensional shapes.

     Someone from Pink Floyd once commented that the reason
     their music sounded so "different" was mostly because
     their skills with their instruments was initially SO
     poor - they COULDN'T emulate the popular bands  :-)

     Something really new - beyond 'space' and 'multiverses',
     'galactic empires', dubious 'time travel' and 'AI' - will
     have to be on the horizon before sci-fi can move up a notch.
     All that stuff is old and creaky and over-exploited.

    Easy! Meta-multiverse,

    I call that "hyper-verse" or "poly-verse". We can more
    easily imagine many, maybe millions, of other universes
    spawned at the same time as ours, separate only by 4-D
    barriers. But what if there are entire TREES of those,
    no tree even remotely connected/nearby OUR tree ???

    3.x-D universes smell of some kind of leak/defect/bubble
    in the 10+ dimensional matrix. Kinda like a pot of
    water on a stove, the 10-D starts making lower-D
    "bubbles". Probably won't last forever, but forever
    IS a kinda long time.

    Where'd the 10+ D come from ? Dunno. Don't really
    care. 'Causality' may mean nothing there. Best
    to just say it IS there and if it wasn't then we
    wouldn't be asking stupid questions.

    Turtles all the way down .......

    that's where the fun will be! Multiverse is for
    nerds! ;) Teilhardt de Jardin (or however it is spelled) tried a nice
    merge of spirituality and sci fi, and I just finished reading Radio free albemuth which had a nice sci fi take on christianity. Was interesting
    to read up on the story that parts of it are actually auto biographical
    from the point of view of Philip K. Dick.

    Not into 'spiritual' stuff since I was like 9. Had
    one of those 'epiphany' things where all the whirring
    bits momentarily fall in line and you can see through
    to the (relatively boring/unromantic) truth.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to rbowman on Fri Jan 17 10:15:55 2025
    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 16:57:54 +0100, D wrote:

    Easy! Meta-multiverse, that's where the fun will be! Multiverse is for
    nerds! Teilhardt de Jardin (or however it is spelled) tried a nice
    merge of spirituality and sci fi, and I just finished reading Radio free
    albemuth which had a nice sci fi take on christianity. Was interesting
    to read up on the story that parts of it are actually auto biographical
    from the point of view of Philip K. Dick.

    Teilhard's mix kept him in hot water. His books never quite made it to the Index but he was not allowed to publish during his lifetime.


    Ahh... the church. Never keeps censoring! ;)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Jan 17 10:55:30 2025
    This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
    while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

    On Fri, 17 Jan 2025, [email protected] wrote:

    Hmm, I think going full circle is then the way to go. Dig up a concept that >> has been forgotten for a 100 years or so, and perhaps it will be nice and
    fresh! ;)


    Not a bad idea - although even using that would ultimately
    be 'derivative'.

    Sadly yes.

    There was some good pop music 100+ ago - including early
    jazz/blues adaptations like 'ragtime'. COULD be kinda
    punched-up.

    The wife loves jazz. Speaking of "new" I gave her an LP with Jan Johansson called Jazz på svenska. It's a jazzification of old swedish folk melodies. Quite
    relaxing, calm and melancholic. Kind of mirrors the swedish temperament I would say.

    Humans are 'creative' - but not infinitely creative.
    Once in a while we'll hit on something 'new' - but,
    due to exposure/recordings that's getting more rare.

    I recall Paul Simon going to Africa in order to find
    some 'new' sounds. Some of it worked, some didn't.


    Two books on that theme are Flatland which is about a 2d world and adding a >> few dimensions instead, there was a book by Greg Egan I think, which was
    about uploaded virtual entities. Cannot remember the name at the moment. I >> like that concept! I'm currently watching season 2 of pantheon, and it's
    going downhill. In the virtual world they are using way too many physical
    shortcuts to illustrate fights etc. It can of course be argued that the
    brains of the virtual entities have not yet adapter, but I think that's a
    lazy excuse. It would be interesting to think about if it would be possible >> to represent virtual uploaded entities in a way that might make them seem
    more native to their world, instead of just reusing our physical world for >> easy comprehension.


    "FlatLand" is one of my faves. A much later writer did
    "SphereLand" - delving into four dimensions.

    It was on my christmas reading list, but I forgot it in sweden when I migrated back to eastern europe. Very annoying! It is not a long read. Well, in april I'll be able to read it.

    What does a passing hypersphere look like ... like a
    dot, then a bigger and bigger sphere - then a smaller
    and smaller sphere - disappearing as a dot :-)

    You'll have to look it up ... there was an author,
    late 19th or early 20th, who made a book mostly
    full of figures/drawings he claimed - after close
    study - would help people wrap their brains around
    4th dimensional shapes.

    My philosophy professors father claimed to be able to visualize 4d. My philosophy professor thought it was one of his fathers jokes.

    Easy! Meta-multiverse,

    I call that "hyper-verse" or "poly-verse". We can more
    easily imagine many, maybe millions, of other universes
    spawned at the same time as ours, separate only by 4-D
    barriers. But what if there are entire TREES of those,
    no tree even remotely connected/nearby OUR tree ???

    I've had similar ideas. Another fun idea is to imagine that there's no time, and
    that everything, all history, always was there. Time is just a way for our minds
    to deal with it in a rational way.

    3.x-D universes smell of some kind of leak/defect/bubble
    in the 10+ dimensional matrix. Kinda like a pot of
    water on a stove, the 10-D starts making lower-D
    "bubbles". Probably won't last forever, but forever
    IS a kinda long time.

    Where'd the 10+ D come from ? Dunno. Don't really
    care. 'Causality' may mean nothing there. Best
    to just say it IS there and if it wasn't then we
    wouldn't be asking stupid questions.

    Turtles all the way down .......

    Someone should really interview those turtles some day. They seem to be involved
    in a lot of stuff!

    that's where the fun will be! Multiverse is for nerds! ;) Teilhardt de
    Jardin (or however it is spelled) tried a nice merge of spirituality and
    sci fi, and I just finished reading Radio free albemuth which had a nice
    sci fi take on christianity. Was interesting to read up on the story that
    parts of it are actually auto biographical from the point of view of Philip >> K. Dick.

    Not into 'spiritual' stuff since I was like 9. Had
    one of those 'epiphany' things where all the whirring
    bits momentarily fall in line and you can see through
    to the (relatively boring/unromantic) truth.

    Ah! I am very interested in the truth! What is the truth? What did you realize?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Fri Jan 17 11:10:51 2025
    On 17/01/2025 06:01, [email protected] wrote:
    No. He (and his dad)  built his  own guitar, but I think the pickups
    were P90s. The amp was always a (number of)  Vox AC30(s), well known
    for a unique sound due to stuff you wouldn't be interested in

      Hey, we're tekkies here - we're interested in lots
      of stuff  🙂

      From May's sound, it's clear the amp has a somewhat
      exaggerated higher-end response with some interesting
      harmonics. A lot of the older transistor amps had
      a kinda 'hard' sound too and kinda heavier on the
      odd harmonics. Dunno if that was inherent, or
      by-design - intentionally emulating the AC30 sound.

    The AC30 is a development of the original Mullard application note to
    use four EL84s - a small pentode - as a 25W power amplifier. Subesquent
    units used a pair of EL34s.

    Being British, when it needed more gain, instead of adding an extra
    tube, they simply *removed the negative feedback* from the power amplifier.
    You don't care much about distortion in a guitar amplifier.

    Of course this had another effect, instead of just increasing the gain
    it increased the output impedance so much (~100ohm) that the
    loudspeakers were practically current driven, rather than voltage driven.

    This had two effects. The first one was a result of the induction of the loudspeaker voice coil. Normally with a constant volatage, you get
    constant-ish output with frequency. But with a high impedance feed the loudspeakers got effectively a 6dB per octave treble boost all the way
    from somewhere around 1kHz. To tame this they added a simple 'tone
    control' that rolled off the treble only.

    The other effect was that the loudspeaker cone was no longer tightly
    controlled by the amplifier - it was free to flap. And it so happens
    that the two 12" loudspeakers and the open backed cabinet had both a
    nice woodenish cardboardy sort of sound and a massive bass resonance
    peak at around 100Hz, which is very close to and lies between bottom E
    and bottom A on the guitar.

    All this made for a classic 'boom and chink' sound perfect for the beat
    groups of the era, and all with as few valves (tubes) as they could get
    away with.

    British amps sounded good because they were in fact BAD. Whilst a Fender
    is a reasonable copy of a hi fi amplifier of the period, British designs
    were over driven done on the cheap and had in many cases horrible
    distortion.

    The Marshall being the prime example of 'all of the above'. The classic 'attack' is caused by the amplifier having plenty of HT voltage - until
    you want to sustain power. Then the mains transformers sighs and gives up.

    So a 'power chord' has a sharp attack and then sustains at lower volume...


    --
    It is the folly of too many to mistake the echo of a London coffee-house
    for the voice of the kingdom.

    Jonathan Swift

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 17 19:44:23 2025
    On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:55:30 +0100, D wrote:

    The wife loves jazz. Speaking of "new" I gave her an LP with Jan
    Johansson called Jazz på svenska. It's a jazzification of old swedish
    folk melodies. Quite relaxing, calm and melancholic. Kind of mirrors the swedish temperament I would say.

    I like Nordic Revival bands like Garmana. I'm not sure I'd like jazz in
    the mix.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 17 19:40:56 2025
    On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:15:55 +0100, D wrote:

    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 16:57:54 +0100, D wrote:

    Easy! Meta-multiverse, that's where the fun will be! Multiverse is for
    nerds! Teilhardt de Jardin (or however it is spelled) tried a nice
    merge of spirituality and sci fi, and I just finished reading Radio
    free albemuth which had a nice sci fi take on christianity. Was
    interesting to read up on the story that parts of it are actually auto
    biographical from the point of view of Philip K. Dick.

    Teilhard's mix kept him in hot water. His books never quite made it to
    the Index but he was not allowed to publish during his lifetime.


    Ahh... the church. Never keeps censoring! ;)

    Well they do expect Jesuit priests to keep to the party line.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Fri Jan 17 23:30:11 2025
    On 1/17/25 6:10 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 17/01/2025 06:01, [email protected] wrote:
    No. He (and his dad)  built his  own guitar, but I think the pickups
    were P90s. The amp was always a (number of)  Vox AC30(s), well known
    for a unique sound due to stuff you wouldn't be interested in

       Hey, we're tekkies here - we're interested in lots
       of stuff  🙂

       From May's sound, it's clear the amp has a somewhat
       exaggerated higher-end response with some interesting
       harmonics. A lot of the older transistor amps had
       a kinda 'hard' sound too and kinda heavier on the
       odd harmonics. Dunno if that was inherent, or
       by-design - intentionally emulating the AC30 sound.

    The AC30 is a development of the original Mullard application note to
    use four EL84s - a small pentode - as a 25W power amplifier. Subesquent
    units used a pair of EL34s.

    Being British, when it needed more gain, instead of adding an extra
    tube, they simply *removed the negative feedback* from the power amplifier. You don't care much about distortion in a guitar amplifier.

    Of course this had another effect, instead of just increasing the gain
    it increased the output impedance so much (~100ohm) that the
    loudspeakers were practically current driven, rather than voltage driven.

    This had two effects. The first one was a result of the induction of the loudspeaker voice coil. Normally with a constant volatage, you get constant-ish output with frequency. But with a high impedance feed the loudspeakers got effectively a 6dB per octave treble boost all the way
    from somewhere around 1kHz. To tame this they added a simple 'tone
    control' that rolled off the treble only.

    The other effect was that the loudspeaker cone was no longer tightly controlled by the amplifier - it was free to flap. And it so happens
    that the two 12" loudspeakers and the open backed cabinet had both a
    nice woodenish  cardboardy sort of sound and a massive bass resonance
    peak at around 100Hz, which is very close to and lies between bottom E
    and bottom A on the guitar.

    All this made for a classic 'boom and chink' sound perfect  for the beat groups of the era, and all with as few valves (tubes) as they could get
    away with.

    British amps sounded good because they were in fact BAD. Whilst a Fender
    is a reasonable copy of a hi fi amplifier of the period, British designs
    were over driven done on the cheap and had in many cases horrible
    distortion.

    Well, for 'rock', a fair bit of distortion is desired
    most of the time. However the intro to "Stairway" would
    not have sounded so good with too much distortion added.
    Sometimes you want something closer to Spanish guitar.

    That's one of the coolest things about electric guitar,
    they can sound anything from wood instruments up to the
    coming of the Viking gods just by turning a knob or two.

    The Marshall being the prime example of 'all of the above'.  The classic 'attack' is caused by the amplifier having plenty of HT voltage - until
    you want to sustain power. Then the mains transformers sighs and gives up.

    So a 'power chord' has a sharp attack and then sustains at lower volume...

    Before the triode, there were MECHANICAL audio amps that
    worked by various means. They were oft employed as public
    PA systems - very popular at big political rallys because
    the voice band was so piercing. Hitler woulda loved 'em.

    http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/COMMS/trumechamp/trumechamp.htm

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_gramophone

    http://www.vias.org/crowhurstba/crowhurst_basic_audio_vol1_028.html

    The more common design was compressed air modulated by something
    like a needle attached to the mic diaphragm - a spring would
    counterbalance the air pressure partially - they were basically
    class-A amps. Feed that modulated air into a big folded horn
    assembly and some say you could get 120db.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sat Jan 18 11:40:04 2025
    On Fri, 17 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

    On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:15:55 +0100, D wrote:

    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 16:57:54 +0100, D wrote:

    Easy! Meta-multiverse, that's where the fun will be! Multiverse is for >>>> nerds! Teilhardt de Jardin (or however it is spelled) tried a nice
    merge of spirituality and sci fi, and I just finished reading Radio
    free albemuth which had a nice sci fi take on christianity. Was
    interesting to read up on the story that parts of it are actually auto >>>> biographical from the point of view of Philip K. Dick.

    Teilhard's mix kept him in hot water. His books never quite made it to
    the Index but he was not allowed to publish during his lifetime.


    Ahh... the church. Never keeps censoring! ;)

    Well they do expect Jesuit priests to keep to the party line.


    This is the truth!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sat Jan 18 11:41:18 2025
    This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
    while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

    On Fri, 17 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

    On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:55:30 +0100, D wrote:

    The wife loves jazz. Speaking of "new" I gave her an LP with Jan
    Johansson called Jazz på svenska. It's a jazzification of old swedish
    folk melodies. Quite relaxing, calm and melancholic. Kind of mirrors the
    swedish temperament I would say.

    I like Nordic Revival bands like Garmana. I'm not sure I'd like jazz in
    the mix.


    Ahh... Garmarna! Yes, good stuff! I even have a cd somewhere in a box in
    the attic. There was a time when I really like them, and I still do. =)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 18 19:42:33 2025
    On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 11:40:04 +0100, D wrote:

    On Fri, 17 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

    On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:15:55 +0100, D wrote:

    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 16:57:54 +0100, D wrote:

    Easy! Meta-multiverse, that's where the fun will be! Multiverse is
    for nerds! Teilhardt de Jardin (or however it is spelled) tried a
    nice merge of spirituality and sci fi, and I just finished reading
    Radio free albemuth which had a nice sci fi take on christianity.
    Was interesting to read up on the story that parts of it are
    actually auto biographical from the point of view of Philip K. Dick.

    Teilhard's mix kept him in hot water. His books never quite made it
    to the Index but he was not allowed to publish during his lifetime.


    Ahh... the church. Never keeps censoring! ;)

    Well they do expect Jesuit priests to keep to the party line.


    This is the truth!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

    Lemaître wasn't a Jesuit but he wasn't mixing science with theology.
    Teilhard strayed a long way from anthropology.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sun Jan 19 11:44:19 2025
    This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
    while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

    On Sat, 18 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

    On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 11:40:04 +0100, D wrote:

    On Fri, 17 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

    On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:15:55 +0100, D wrote:

    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

    On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 16:57:54 +0100, D wrote:

    Easy! Meta-multiverse, that's where the fun will be! Multiverse is >>>>>> for nerds! Teilhardt de Jardin (or however it is spelled) tried a >>>>>> nice merge of spirituality and sci fi, and I just finished reading >>>>>> Radio free albemuth which had a nice sci fi take on christianity.
    Was interesting to read up on the story that parts of it are
    actually auto biographical from the point of view of Philip K. Dick. >>>>>
    Teilhard's mix kept him in hot water. His books never quite made it
    to the Index but he was not allowed to publish during his lifetime.


    Ahh... the church. Never keeps censoring! ;)

    Well they do expect Jesuit priests to keep to the party line.


    This is the truth!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

    Lemaître wasn't a Jesuit but he wasn't mixing science with theology. Teilhard strayed a long way from anthropology.

    Fertile and creative minds naturally expand and broaden themselves,
    refusing to be limited by artificial boxes such as geology, theology,
    physics.

    They roam freely from field to field, making fascinating discoveries as
    they go! =)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)