XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, uk.telecom.mobile

I noticed they put Wi-Fi devices in the ceiling of Costco (where I asked
the manager about it so he confirmed that they recently added them).

They're probably access points perhaps, but they could be cellular towers. Dunno... but recently I wrote the note below to Carlos where I wonder how
many others (besides me) still have home cellular repeaters & femtocells?

Q: How many on this ng are still using carrier-provided home towers?
A: (I know I still am using them - but I need them less & less over time).

I don't know if it's common practice in the UK/EU but it was common
practice in the USA to give any customer who asked for a free repeater or femtocell/microcell (same thing) to get one from AT&T, Verizon & T-Mobile.

Here's what I had written to Carlos that prompted the question about you.

Hi Carlos,
I live in the boonies above Silicon Valley where amplification was needed.

It's needed less and less each year as 5GHz Wi-Fi takes over, but ten or fifteen years ago we all had to ask our carriers for "tiny home towers".

Oh, I don't know, maybe about fifteen years ago the carrier used to give
us, for free, a wi-fi capable router so we could do Wi-Fi calling at home.

Then, oh, I don't know, maybe about ten years ago, the carrier would give
us a free cellular repeater pair (one receiver & one transmitter).

The cellular repeater is a purely analog receiver transmitter, where you
put the receiver in an upstairs window & the transmitter somewhere else.

That picks up a signal from miles away and amplifies it (repeats it).
About five or ten years ago they started giving us femtocell microtowers.

The micro/femto tower is a tiny little cellular tower connected to your
router which acts like an extra tiny cellular tower for the carrier.

Now that 5GHz is all the rage, they don't give us anything anymore. :)
<https://i.postimg.cc/zf9w1tGZ/speedtest07.jpg> *255Mbps* 5G home speed

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, uk.telecom.mobile

Marion wrote:

I wonder how many others (besides me) still have home cellular
repeaters & femtocells?

Never had one at home, and all the ones I've installed in offices are
now obsolete (3G) and I suspect a combination of better 4G and wifi is
now filling in the same gaps.

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, uk.telecom.mobile

On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 00:32:36 +0100, Andy Burns wrote :

I wonder how many others (besides me) still have home cellular
repeaters & femtocells?

Never had one at home, and all the ones I've installed in offices are
now obsolete (3G) and I suspect a combination of better 4G and wifi is
now filling in the same gaps.

Thanks for that useful information, Andy, where I'm kind of unusual, I
think, at least compared to my neighbors, as I'm a vehement complainer to
the carrier so they kind of are forced to placate me with free goodies.

My argument for T-Mobile (& for a few neighbors on AT&T & Verizon), was
that I pay the same for 1 bar as I would for 5 bars so give us 5 bars!

In *every* case (in the past) I was able to talk T-Mobile, Verizon & AT&T
into giving me (and my neighbors) the free "tiny home tower" but of course,
the difference is we *needed* it (and the carriers certainly knew that).

But you don't get them if you don't ask for them (using that argument).
They don't voluntarily hand them out without you forcing them to do so.

If you've never had one at home in the UK, that means your signal is sufficient, which already is better than my situation from years ago.

I agree that the combination of better cellular coverage & the fact more
and more carriers allow Wi-Fi calling is "filling in the same gaps" now.

I was just wondering how many others used these "tiny home towers" where
when I googled just now, I found out that T-Mobile retired all of them!
<https://www.tmonews.com/2025/04/t-mobile-retires-cellspot-devices-heres-what-it-means-for-you/>

Nobody told me they retired them - but they appear to be still working.

Apparently, we don't have to return them anymore, so that means people even
can legally sell them now on Ebay for a pittance, like these repeaters.
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/154856576842>
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/135546464951>
Or these more expensive, but still relatively cheap femtocells:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/317107752457>
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/406070173099>

Those repeaters support any number of T-Mobile devices so anyone in the vicinity can connect whereas the femtocells are only 8 on LTE at a time.

The femtocell setup has a GPS connection but the repeaters do not, so I'm
not sure how that actually works when someone buys it or moves it around.

The repeater will work anywhere there is T-Mobile signal since it's not connected to anything that geolocates it or tells T-Mobile it's there.

The femtocells create their own signal, so they're fundamentally different (where I looked up if a repeater can amplify a femtocell but it cannot).

Apparently the repeaters support 3G/4G/LTE but not 2G/5G, specifically
Band 2 1900 MHz PCS 3G/4G LTE (Urban coverage)
Band 4 1700/2100 MHz AWS 3G / 4G LTE (Widespread LTE, VoLTE)
Band 12 700 MHz 4G LTE Extended range (deep indoor coverage, rural)
<https://www.tmonews.com/2017/11/t-mobile-4g-lte-cellspot-v2-4g-lte-signal-booster-duo-devices/>

Apparently my femocell (mine is V1 with Rev 02 firmware) supports
Band 2 (1900 MHz) (added in 2016 with the Rev02 firmware)
Band 4 (AWS 1700/2100 MHz)

I dug up what the cellular signal is in my area in the boonies surrounding Silicon Valley so I think it's still useful, but less so with 5G around.
Band 2 1900 MHz (Urban capacity, legacy LTE)
Band 4 1700/2100 MHz (Widespread LTE, VoLTE support)
Band 12 700 MHz (Deep indoor coverage, rural)
Band 66 AWS-3 extension (Carrier aggregation, mid-band LTE)

So, at least for me, I belatedly found out (after researching for this
reply to you) that they're still useful, but, as you said, less & less.

Most people seem to do just fine with Wi-Fi calling, but not everyone has a carrier who allows it, so those people may need these "tiny towers".

However, I suspect very few people are using them nowadays, as you've
partly confirmed (and as badgolferman also confirmed separately).

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, uk.telecom.mobile

On Sun, 27 Jul 2025 23:35:58 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote :

Now that 5GHz is all the rage, they don't give us anything anymore. :)
<https://i.postimg.cc/zf9w1tGZ/speedtest07.jpg> *255Mbps* 5G home speed

I could use one inside my house since I only get one bar in there, but
since I connect to my home WiFi for data and have WiFi calling enabled it's not necessary.

I think WiFi calling is what reduced the need for those repeaters.

Hi badgolferman,

Thanks because your opinion matters (just as Andy's does in the UK).

You & I are both on T-Mobile USA where both of us got 5G phones from
T-Mobile around April of 2021 when they promoted their 5G expansion.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg> A32-5G & iPhone 12 contract

I still have the 3 free Samsung Galaxy A32-5G phones (actually 5 since they
had to replace my daily drive twice under warranty) along with 1 iPhone.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5SpS4D/tmopromo02.jpg> $15/mo iPhone,$0/mo Android

Since then, both you & I have once replaced our iPhones on that plan, so
your experience mirrors mine almost exactly (except I'm a dual-OS account).
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees

If you only have 1 bar inside the house that's as bad as my signal used to
be (before 5G was beefed up in the boonies of the Santa Cruz Mountains).

T-Mobile used to give out three different augmentation systems for free.
a. They gave out free Wi-Fi capable routers (before they were common)
b. They gave out free cellular repeaters (for both data & voice)
c. And they gave out free femtocells (which connect to a SOHO router)

Up until April of this year, apparently, you could get them from T-Mobile simply by arguing that you have only 1 bar (which they know already).

But when I looked up my response for Andy, I found out they retired all
their free goodies - so you are stuck - as it is - with the Wi-Fi calling.

As you said, Wi-Fi calling compensates for lack of cellular signal where I
have huge Ubiquiti antennas scattered around my yard to make that possible.

So I get OK Wi-Fi signal coverage but many people have spotty AP coverage.
<https://i.postimg.cc/4dgCbg1t/wificalling01.jpg>

For those like you with good Wi-Fi coverage, T-Mobile has always allowed
Wi-Fi calling for free (AFAIK) but not every carrier allows it, I fear.

In doing research to respond to Andy, I found out folks can buy for almost nothing analog cellular repeaters, which work anywhere you put them.

My analog cellular repeater front label says it's a "4G LTE Signal Booster
- Window Unit". The back label says it's a "CEL-FI.DUO WINDOW UNIT" "Model CELFI-D32-24NU" with "FCC-ID YETD24NU". Apparently it boosts both voice and data for T-Mobile phones covering 13K sq ft (1.2K sq m, 0.3 acres).
Max Users: there are no limits & No device whitelisting, which means
any T-Mobile-compatible device nearby can connect & it doesn't have any
GPS or M911 location enforcement as, apparently, it's not actively tracked.
<https://www.t-mobile.com/support/devices/device-troubleshooting/4g-lte-signal-booster-setup-and-help/>

On Ebay they're around $15 or so, where they're kind'a big but you can take them when you go cabin camping or hotel traveling as they are portable.

For about $50, on Ebay, I saw the femtocells (also called microcells),
which attach by Ethernet cable to your router which also are towers.

My femtocell front label says "Personal CellSpot" "4G LTE CellSpot(TM)"
The femtocall back label says "Alcatel-Lucent, Model 9661 Home Cell V1"
FCC ID H8N9961V1, Rev 02, MFD 1606, PN 3JR09051ABEB, which apparently has a coverage of 13K square feet indoors (about 0.3 acres or 1,200 sq meters).
<https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/H8N9961V1/2489188.pdf>
The max simultaneous users are only 16 (8 on LTE, 8 on 3G/UMTS/HSPA+).
But there is no device whitelisting so any T-Mobile phone can use it.

These can only be moved around if you can connect directly to a router.

In summary, anyone can increase the number of bars at home with these
units, but as you and Andy already noted, Wi-Fi calling works well.

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, uk.telecom.mobile

On 2025-07-28 01:32, Andy Burns wrote:

Marion wrote:

I wonder how many others (besides me) still have home cellular
repeaters & femtocells?

Never had one at home, and all the ones I've installed in offices are
now obsolete (3G) and I suspect a combination of better 4G and wifi is
now filling in the same gaps.

I have never seen one of those things at a home here, or heard of
somebody having one. Businesses, yes.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, uk.telecom.mobile

On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 14:24:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :

I wonder how many others (besides me) still have home cellular
repeaters & femtocells?

Never had one at home, and all the ones I've installed in offices are
now obsolete (3G) and I suspect a combination of better 4G and wifi is
now filling in the same gaps.

I have never seen one of those things at a home here, or heard of
somebody having one. Businesses, yes.

To Carlos' point,

You guys are across the Pond but out here, we have huge warehouses for
shopping where it used to be they had poor cell signal (understandably).
<https://chainstoreage.com/metal-building-systems-provide-costco-cost-and-time-savings>

Now the cellular signal is great inside these huge metal warehouses.
<https://www.onlyinyourstate.com/experiences/utah/most-unique-costco-ut>

It could be they offer public Wi-Fi as I never looked at what my phone was doing, so the next time I'm inside, I'll run a signal scan to find out.

In homes in the city or suburbia, the problem would be different in that
there are too many sources of ratio interference but the USA is rural too.

The rural areas need cellular signal and the carriers *know* which
locations suck so they're more willing to provide the signal boosters.

Although I guess with the combination of 5G penetration and ubiquitious
Wi-Fi calling, there is much less of a need for micro towers in most homes.

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, uk.telecom.mobile

Marion <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 14:24:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :

I wonder how many others (besides me) still have home cellular
repeaters & femtocells?

Never had one at home, and all the ones I've installed in offices are
now obsolete (3G) and I suspect a combination of better 4G and wifi is
now filling in the same gaps.

I have never seen one of those things at a home here, or heard of
somebody having one. Businesses, yes.

To Carlos' point,

You guys are across the Pond but out here, we have huge warehouses for shopping where it used to be they had poor cell signal (understandably).
<https://chainstoreage.com/metal-building-systems-provide-costco-cost-and-time-savings>

Now the cellular signal is great inside these huge metal warehouses.
<https://www.onlyinyourstate.com/experiences/utah/most-unique-costco-ut>

It could be they offer public Wi-Fi as I never looked at what my phone was doing, so the next time I'm inside, I'll run a signal scan to find out.

In homes in the city or suburbia, the problem would be different in that there are too many sources of ratio interference but the USA is rural too.

The rural areas need cellular signal and the carriers *know* which
locations suck so they're more willing to provide the signal boosters.

Although I guess with the combination of 5G penetration and ubiquitious
Wi-Fi calling, there is much less of a need for micro towers in most homes.

So what do they use in underground metros to enable the use of mobiles? I
wish I could use my phone in my building’s underground garage, too.

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, uk.telecom.mobile

On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 22:04:39 -0000 (UTC), Cameo wrote :

Although I guess with the combination of 5G penetration and ubiquitious
Wi-Fi calling, there is much less of a need for micro towers in most homes. >>

So what do they use in underground metros to enable the use of mobiles? I wish I could use my phone in my building�s underground garage, too.

I don't know but I would think the "microcell" concept would work fine.
The underground would only need Ethernet cable in the walls or ceiling.

Once it's connected to a router, it's a bona-fide cell tower in the roof.
It would have to whitelist many carriers, many frequencies, many devices.

That's just a guess though - so it would be good if someone responds who actually knows how they feed cellular voice/data/sms/mms in the metro.

Mind the Gap!

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, uk.telecom.mobile

Cameo wrote:

So what do they use in underground metros to enable the use of mobiles?

A leaky feeder, probably more sophisticated these days, but a length of
coax cable with regular notches in the outer conductor.

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, uk.telecom.mobile

On 2025-07-29 00:04, Cameo wrote:

Marion <[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 14:24:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :

I wonder how many others (besides me) still have home cellular
repeaters & femtocells?

Never had one at home, and all the ones I've installed in offices are
now obsolete (3G) and I suspect a combination of better 4G and wifi is >>>> now filling in the same gaps.

I have never seen one of those things at a home here, or heard of
somebody having one. Businesses, yes.

To Carlos' point,

You guys are across the Pond but out here, we have huge warehouses for
shopping where it used to be they had poor cell signal (understandably).
<https://chainstoreage.com/metal-building-systems-provide-costco-cost-and-time-savings>

Now the cellular signal is great inside these huge metal warehouses.
<https://www.onlyinyourstate.com/experiences/utah/most-unique-costco-ut> >>
It could be they offer public Wi-Fi as I never looked at what my phone was >> doing, so the next time I'm inside, I'll run a signal scan to find out.

In homes in the city or suburbia, the problem would be different in that
there are too many sources of ratio interference but the USA is rural too. >>
The rural areas need cellular signal and the carriers *know* which
locations suck so they're more willing to provide the signal boosters.

Although I guess with the combination of 5G penetration and ubiquitious
Wi-Fi calling, there is much less of a need for micro towers in most homes. >>

So what do they use in underground metros to enable the use of mobiles? I wish I could use my phone in my building’s underground garage, too.

Yes, I can use my phone inside the Madrid Metro (underground urban
railway network) My phone does not have 5G.

In the parking lot of the Madrid flat I usually go to, the FM radio is
very bad, but my phone works. I don't believe there is a femto cell.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, uk.telecom.mobile

UPDATE:

For those interested in the technical details, T-Mobile has retired these particular units earlier in April of this year, but I still have them.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YCKqWQQT/cellularbooster.jpg> cellular booster
<https://i.postimg.cc/vH9xkYhF/cellularfemtocell.jpg> cellular femtocell

I'm told by neighbors that they have a new 4G & 5G unit that they give out. Bear in mind there has to be overlap with your devices for it to work out.

T-Mobile Macro Tower Bands (Local Observed):
Band 2 1900 MHz PCS - Urban LTE
Band 4 1700/2100 MHz AWS - LTE + VoLTE
Band 12 700 MHz - Deep indoor + rural LTE
Band 66 AWS-3
Band 5G NR
Band 5G ER (Bands 12/71)
Band 5G UC (Bands 41/66)

In-Home Free Repeater Supported Bands:
Band 2 1900 MHz PCS - Urban LTE
Band 4 1700/2100 MHz AWS - LTE + VoLTE
Band 12 700 MHz - Deep indoor + rural LTE

In-Home Free Femtocell Supported Bands:
Band 2 1900 MHz - Added via Rev02 firmware (2016)
Band 4 1700/2100 MHz AWS
Band 12 Not supported
Band 66 Not supported

Free Android Phones Supported Bands:
Band 2 1900 MHz - Urban LTE
Band 4 1700/2100 MHz AWS - LTE + VoLTE
Band 12 700 MHz - Indoor + rural LTE
Band 66 AWS-3 - Enhanced mid-band LTE

Band Compatibility Matrix (Overlap Summary):
Band Phone Repeater Femtocell
--------- -------- --------- ----------
Band 2 [Y] [Y] [Y]
Band 4 [Y] [Y] [Y]
Band 12 [Y] [Y] [N]
Band 66 [Y] [N] [N]
5G NR [Y] [N] [N]
5G ER [Y] [N] [N]
5G UC [Y] [N] [N]

Note that the femtocells are limited to 4+4 users at a time.
But the cellular repeaters aren't limited to the user count.

These are my Venn Diagrams where the calculations you run will be different
as they depend upon what cellular towers you have inside your own home.

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, uk.telecom.mobile

In article <[email protected]>, Andy Burns
<[email protected]> scribeth thus

Cameo wrote:

So what do they use in underground metros to enable the use of mobiles?

A leaky feeder, probably more sophisticated these days, but a length of
coax cable with regular notches in the outer conductor.

Its called RADIAX and does just what you have described made by RFS as
below sometimes called a Leaky Feeder!..


https://www.rfsworld.com/searchengine/radiaflex-radiating-cables?p=1


--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

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