• Canta and Shizuku

    From Jeff Layman@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 30 08:49:28 2025
    Anyone here tried Canta and Shizuku? Evidently gives partial root access
    to phones which cannot be rooted, and appears to do so without using
    adb, allowing unwanted apps to the uninstalled. <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.samo_lego.canta/> <https://shizuku-manager.en.uptodown.com/android>

    --
    Jeff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Marion@21:1/5 to Jeff Layman on Mon Jun 30 21:05:25 2025
    On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 08:49:28 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote :


    Anyone here tried Canta and Shizuku? Evidently gives partial root access
    to phones which cannot be rooted, and appears to do so without using
    adb, allowing unwanted apps to the uninstalled. <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.samo_lego.canta/> <https://shizuku-manager.en.uptodown.com/android>

    Hi Jeff,

    Nobody ever asked that question before (to my offhand knowledge).
    Good. Let's learn from each other again. The whole team can pitch in.

    Besides, my bootloader is known to be unrootable so I may need it.
    <https://xdaforums.com/t/is-my-almost-3-year-old-t-mobile-network-unlocked-samsung-galaxy-sm-a326u-bootloader-still-unlockable-and-hence-is-my-sm-a326u-still-unrootable.4638955/>

    First thing I did was check Muntashirakon where I was not surprised
    surprised to find I didn't have Canta but I was surprised to find I
    must have loaded "Shizuku" <moe.shizuku.privileged.api" in the past as I
    had Version 13.5.4.r1049.0e53409 (1049)" installed, which was in a
    "Stopped" state with a "Date updated" of "September 14, 2024".

    When I clicked the main Shizuku activity using Muntashirakon, I
    immediately started remembering why I had forgotten about it, which
    is it says in the main activity, very clearly so, "For devices without
    root, you need to use adb to start Shizuku. This process needs to be
    repeated every time the device is restarted. Please read the help."

    It then has a rather nice "View command" button with a convenient "Copy"
    button which copied this adb command for me into my Windows/Android
    clipboard (remember, I'm always using scrcpy so they're one & the same).
    adb shell sh /storage/emulated/0/Android/data/moe.shizuku.privileged.api/start.sh

    This is the output in Windows.
    adb shell sh /storage/emulated/0/Android/data/moe.shizuku.privileged.api/start.sh
    info: start.sh begin
    info: attempt to copy starter from /storage/emulated/0/Android/data/moe.shizuku.privileged.api/starter to /data/local/tmp/shizuku_starter
    info: exec /data/local/tmp/shizuku_starter
    info: starter begin
    info: killing old process...
    info: apk path is /data/app/~~j2Bfj74f4DUXxNA5r8nvlQ==/moe.shizuku.privileged.api-EfgdS0yVAmbHZDgZAOOXtg==/base.apk
    info: starting server...
    info: shizuku_starter exit with 0

    I'm not quite sure what happened. Nothing changed on Android's screen.
    Am I temporarily rooted? I don't know. (ah, I am).

    I searched for how to tell if you're rooted with Shizuku via USB/ADB,
    and it turned out that those outputs are normal where the fact is
    Shizuku doesn't root you but it adds temporary root-like privileges.

    At top of the Shizuku activity I tap the three dots & it has an option
    to "Stop Shizuku". I searched & found that means it worked perfectly.

    I searched some more and found that on my Android 13, I can disconnect from
    the USB/ADB connection and Shizuku (which means "trickle" apparently) will still work up until the next reboot. So I'm trickle rooted until I reboot.

    But it turns out, based on my search results, that I didn't even need to
    use adb to start the Shizuku trickle rooter because there's a "pairing
    code" in Android 13 Wireless Debugging which eliminates the adb step.

    These are the instructions from the search (but I didn't test them).
    1. Go to Developer Options
    2. Tap on Wireless Debugging > Pair device with pairing code
    3. In Shizuku tap "Pairing"
    4. The phone shows a 6-digit pairing code
    5. Enter that code into Shizuku

    Once I saw those instructions, it's coming back to me slowly why I ditched Shizuku a year ago, which is that you kind of need a split screen to do
    both those tasks SIMULTANEOUSLY. I remember being frustrated & giving up.

    Anyway, with this wireless pairing, it apparently creates a secure
    connection between Shizuku and the phone wireless debugging service.

    The beauty of the wireless pairing is it's one-time action, since it
    survives reboots (but it doesn't survive a factory reset). Once you're
    paired with Shizuku wirelessly, after you reboot, you can restart the
    Shizuku trickle rooting using these steps (which I did not test).
    1. Start the Shizuku app on your phone
    2. Go to the "Start via Wireless Debugging" section of Shizuku
    3. Tap the "Start" button in Shizuku under that heading
    This is said to restart the connection, but it's also said to be a bit
    flaky in that Android might change the port out from under Shizuku.

    My assessment?
    a. It was a pain to set it up wirelessly (long ago),
    b. But it's plenty easy to set it up with adb/usb.

    Now that it's set up, what do I do with it?
    Dunno. Let's run a search.

    My search results indicate that the best test is to try an app that needs
    root access, but that will accept Shizuku trickle rooting as an option.

    So now I need to find an app that I want that can use Shizuku.
    Searching, I found the following apps will take trickle rooting.
    1. App Ops - Permission Manager (by Rikka, Shizuku's developer)
    2. Universal Android Debloater (UAD)
    3. Hail / Ice Box / Canta (App Freezers/Disablers)
    4. DarQ
    5. LSposed (and its modules)
    6. AShell (or similar terminal apps)

    I'm not sure which to pick so let me see what they each do.
    1. App Ops - Permission Manager (by Rikka, Shizuku's developer)
    Allows fine-grained control of app permissions beyond the basics.
    2. Universal Android Debloater (UAD)
    Safely debloats using curated lists.
    3. Hail / Ice Box / Canta (App Freezers/Disablers)
    Allows you to freeze apps that are causing you problems.
    4. DarQ
    Applies a dark overlay to apps that don't have the option.
    5. LSposed (and its modules)
    Performs advanced expert system tweaks & runtime modifications.
    6. AShell (or similar terminal apps)
    Runs adb commands on the device (much like ladb does).

    Note that only the first item in the list is interesting to me, although
    the second item will probably debloat any given device more safely than by using the way I've been doing it with random adb uninstall commands.

    The rest are uninteresting to me, although since Jeff (the OP) mentioned
    Canta, I ran a search to find that apparently Hail, Ice Box and Canta
    freeze or disable apps on non-rooted Androids using Shizuku's trickle
    rooting privileged access.

    A. Hail is the most popular app freezer.
    B. Ice Box is also a freezer, similar to Hail.
    C. Canta is more focused on debloating.

    All are integrated well with Shizuku apparently.

    Since I already debloat with adb, I searched for how the universal
    debloater might help me, where the answer came back that the Universal
    Android Debloater (UAD) can likely help me debloat more thoroughly and
    safely than manual adb uninstall --user 0 commands, and it also makes
    managing those "uninstalled" apps much easier.

    The reason UAD may be better than what I'm currently doing is they have
    curated lists and some times they choose to disable rather than uninstall
    some apps, which they know which ones they are, and I don't.

    Also restoring apps that were uninstalled is easier with UAD than the way I would do it (but I've done it and it isn't all that hard even with adb but
    you have to know the exact package name with adb but UAD has a GUI).

    Of course, the disadvantage of debloating with UAD is you need to have
    Shizuku trickle rooting enabled, but, at this point, I have that! :)

    Thanks to Jeff's question, which I opened and at the start of this reply I
    only wanted to help out my friend Jeff but I ended learning a lot.

    I hope this ad hoc off-the-cuff quick response is enough to be at least the initial starter reply to Jeff's unique and rather important question for
    this newsgroup of Android experts to ponder & flesh out more thoroughly
    than I can.

    I should caveat this by saying I could be wrong on anything I said above as
    I didn't have any successful experience with these tools in the past, but, maybe this brand new effort to look at Shizuku a second time will be fruitful.

    What I need now is to install one of the apps that uses Shizuku trickle privileges, which will likely be App Ops but this is already too long.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to Jeff Layman on Tue Jul 1 05:49:19 2025
    Jeff Layman <[email protected]d> wrote:

    Anyone here tried Canta and Shizuku? Evidently gives partial root access
    to phones which cannot be rooted, and appears to do so without using
    adb, allowing unwanted apps to the uninstalled.

    <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.samo_lego.canta/>

    That says it is deprecated, and to get a new version at:

    https://f-droid.org/en/packages/io.github.samolego.canta

    <https://shizuku-manager.en.uptodown.com/android>

    Also available at the Play Store: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=moe.shizuku.privileged.api

    I don't use them, but you need both installed. First you need Shizuku,
    and then add Canta.

    What does "activate" mean? That you have to register to activate? Or
    buy something, like a license?

    "This app promotes or depends entirely on a non-free network service."

    Is this adware?

    "This app depends on other non-free apps."

    Canta requires the Shizuku app which allows it and other apps to
    directly access system APIs. For Shizuku, "Supports adb usage", so ADB
    is used after all, but maybe you don't need to delve into Developer
    Options to enable USB Debug (ADB) mode. A screenshot at the Play Store (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=moe.shizuku.privileged.api) shows "Shizuku is running - Version 8, adb".

    I didn't dig into the Shizuku app, but I didn't see it overtly declared
    as payware; however, with mention of requiring non-free apps, perhaps
    cost is not be revealed until after you install and try to use the app.
    Just what other non-free apps are required?

    Most of the negative (1-star) reviews at the Play Store are about this
    app constantly losing wireless connectivity.

    The Play Store app page says Shizuku works on Android 7, and up. Well,
    come on, the APIs have changed a lot since then. Some of the negative
    reports are about trying to use this app on older Android version.
    Shizuku was updated on Mar 10, 2024, but Android 15+ came out later.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ivano Rossi@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Tue Jul 1 15:51:09 2025
    On Tue, 1 Jul 2025 05:49:19 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

    Jeff Layman <[email protected]d> wrote:

    Anyone here tried Canta and Shizuku? Evidently gives partial root access
    to phones which cannot be rooted, and appears to do so without using
    adb, allowing unwanted apps to the uninstalled.

    <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.samo_lego.canta/>

    That says it is deprecated, and to get a new version at:

    https://f-droid.org/en/packages/io.github.samolego.canta

    <https://shizuku-manager.en.uptodown.com/android>

    Also available at the Play Store: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=moe.shizuku.privileged.api

    I don't use them, but you need both installed. First you need Shizuku,
    and then add Canta.

    What does "activate" mean? That you have to register to activate? Or
    buy something, like a license?

    "This app promotes or depends entirely on a non-free network service."

    Is this adware?

    "This app depends on other non-free apps."

    Canta requires the Shizuku app which allows it and other apps to
    directly access system APIs. For Shizuku, "Supports adb usage", so ADB
    is used after all, but maybe you don't need to delve into Developer
    Options to enable USB Debug (ADB) mode. A screenshot at the Play Store (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=moe.shizuku.privileged.api) shows "Shizuku is running - Version 8, adb".

    I didn't dig into the Shizuku app, but I didn't see it overtly declared
    as payware; however, with mention of requiring non-free apps, perhaps
    cost is not be revealed until after you install and try to use the app.
    Just what other non-free apps are required?

    Most of the negative (1-star) reviews at the Play Store are about this
    app constantly losing wireless connectivity.

    The Play Store app page says Shizuku works on Android 7, and up. Well,
    come on, the APIs have changed a lot since then. Some of the negative reports are about trying to use this app on older Android version.
    Shizuku was updated on Mar 10, 2024, but Android 15+ came out later.

    Why do you ask questions which were already answered in the thread?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Layman@21:1/5 to Marion on Tue Jul 1 15:26:00 2025
    On 30/06/2025 22:05, Marion wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 08:49:28 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote :


    Anyone here tried Canta and Shizuku? Evidently gives partial root access
    to phones which cannot be rooted, and appears to do so without using
    adb, allowing unwanted apps to the uninstalled.
    <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.samo_lego.canta/>
    <https://shizuku-manager.en.uptodown.com/android>

    Hi Jeff,

    Nobody ever asked that question before (to my offhand knowledge).
    Good. Let's learn from each other again. The whole team can pitch in.

    Besides, my bootloader is known to be unrootable so I may need it.
    <https://xdaforums.com/t/is-my-almost-3-year-old-t-mobile-network-unlocked-samsung-galaxy-sm-a326u-bootloader-still-unlockable-and-hence-is-my-sm-a326u-still-unrootable.4638955/>

    First thing I did was check Muntashirakon where I was not surprised
    surprised to find I didn't have Canta but I was surprised to find I
    must have loaded "Shizuku" <moe.shizuku.privileged.api" in the past as I
    had Version 13.5.4.r1049.0e53409 (1049)" installed, which was in a
    "Stopped" state with a "Date updated" of "September 14, 2024".

    When I clicked the main Shizuku activity using Muntashirakon, I
    immediately started remembering why I had forgotten about it, which
    is it says in the main activity, very clearly so, "For devices without
    root, you need to use adb to start Shizuku. This process needs to be
    repeated every time the device is restarted. Please read the help."

    It then has a rather nice "View command" button with a convenient "Copy" button which copied this adb command for me into my Windows/Android
    clipboard (remember, I'm always using scrcpy so they're one & the same).
    adb shell sh /storage/emulated/0/Android/data/moe.shizuku.privileged.api/start.sh

    This is the output in Windows.
    adb shell sh /storage/emulated/0/Android/data/moe.shizuku.privileged.api/start.sh
    info: start.sh begin
    info: attempt to copy starter from /storage/emulated/0/Android/data/moe.shizuku.privileged.api/starter to /data/local/tmp/shizuku_starter
    info: exec /data/local/tmp/shizuku_starter
    info: starter begin
    info: killing old process...
    info: apk path is /data/app/~~j2Bfj74f4DUXxNA5r8nvlQ==/moe.shizuku.privileged.api-EfgdS0yVAmbHZDgZAOOXtg==/base.apk
    info: starting server...
    info: shizuku_starter exit with 0

    I'm not quite sure what happened. Nothing changed on Android's screen.
    Am I temporarily rooted? I don't know. (ah, I am).

    I searched for how to tell if you're rooted with Shizuku via USB/ADB,
    and it turned out that those outputs are normal where the fact is
    Shizuku doesn't root you but it adds temporary root-like privileges.

    I would have been surprised if it had given full root access!

    At top of the Shizuku activity I tap the three dots & it has an option
    to "Stop Shizuku". I searched & found that means it worked perfectly.

    I searched some more and found that on my Android 13, I can disconnect from the USB/ADB connection and Shizuku (which means "trickle" apparently) will still work up until the next reboot. So I'm trickle rooted until I reboot.

    But it turns out, based on my search results, that I didn't even need to
    use adb to start the Shizuku trickle rooter because there's a "pairing
    code" in Android 13 Wireless Debugging which eliminates the adb step.

    Good to know that it confirms adb isn't required. Looks like Shizuku has
    had a helpful update since you tried it last. But I'm a bit confused -
    that link I gave at <https://shizuku-manager.en.uptodown.com/android>
    states "In order to use Shizuku on a non-rooted smartphone, you'll need
    to go through a somewhat complex process. Luckily, the app itself has a tutorial that explains what to do step by step. You'll need access to a
    PC and a cable to connect your Android smartphone to the computer." What
    are you connecting the smartphone to a computer for if it's not to use adb?

    These are the instructions from the search (but I didn't test them).
    1. Go to Developer Options
    2. Tap on Wireless Debugging > Pair device with pairing code
    3. In Shizuku tap "Pairing"
    4. The phone shows a 6-digit pairing code
    5. Enter that code into Shizuku

    Once I saw those instructions, it's coming back to me slowly why I ditched Shizuku a year ago, which is that you kind of need a split screen to do
    both those tasks SIMULTANEOUSLY. I remember being frustrated & giving up.

    Anyway, with this wireless pairing, it apparently creates a secure
    connection between Shizuku and the phone wireless debugging service.

    The beauty of the wireless pairing is it's one-time action, since it
    survives reboots (but it doesn't survive a factory reset). Once you're
    paired with Shizuku wirelessly, after you reboot, you can restart the
    Shizuku trickle rooting using these steps (which I did not test).
    1. Start the Shizuku app on your phone
    2. Go to the "Start via Wireless Debugging" section of Shizuku
    3. Tap the "Start" button in Shizuku under that heading
    This is said to restart the connection, but it's also said to be a bit
    flaky in that Android might change the port out from under Shizuku.

    Any reason it would do that other than perhaps an update to Android
    itself? Or is there something which sets port choice as a privilege for
    certain apps above others?

    My assessment?
    a. It was a pain to set it up wirelessly (long ago),
    b. But it's plenty easy to set it up with adb/usb.

    I'm not clear - can it be set up wirelessly without adb? That should
    make things a bit easier.

    Now that it's set up, what do I do with it?
    Dunno. Let's run a search.

    My search results indicate that the best test is to try an app that needs root access, but that will accept Shizuku trickle rooting as an option.

    So now I need to find an app that I want that can use Shizuku.
    Searching, I found the following apps will take trickle rooting.
    1. App Ops - Permission Manager (by Rikka, Shizuku's developer)
    2. Universal Android Debloater (UAD)
    3. Hail / Ice Box / Canta (App Freezers/Disablers)
    4. DarQ
    5. LSposed (and its modules)
    6. AShell (or similar terminal apps)

    App Ops was mentioned in the Shizuku link, and I did look at it, but
    thought it was getting a bit OT for something which seemed complicated
    enough already!

    I'm not sure which to pick so let me see what they each do.
    1. App Ops - Permission Manager (by Rikka, Shizuku's developer)
    Allows fine-grained control of app permissions beyond the basics.
    2. Universal Android Debloater (UAD)
    Safely debloats using curated lists.
    3. Hail / Ice Box / Canta (App Freezers/Disablers)
    Allows you to freeze apps that are causing you problems.
    4. DarQ
    Applies a dark overlay to apps that don't have the option.
    5. LSposed (and its modules)
    Performs advanced expert system tweaks & runtime modifications.
    6. AShell (or similar terminal apps)
    Runs adb commands on the device (much like ladb does).

    Note that only the first item in the list is interesting to me, although
    the second item will probably debloat any given device more safely than by using the way I've been doing it with random adb uninstall commands.

    The rest are uninteresting to me, although since Jeff (the OP) mentioned Canta, I ran a search to find that apparently Hail, Ice Box and Canta
    freeze or disable apps on non-rooted Androids using Shizuku's trickle
    rooting privileged access.

    A. Hail is the most popular app freezer.
    B. Ice Box is also a freezer, similar to Hail.
    C. Canta is more focused on debloating.

    All are integrated well with Shizuku apparently.

    Since I already debloat with adb, I searched for how the universal
    debloater might help me, where the answer came back that the Universal Android Debloater (UAD) can likely help me debloat more thoroughly and
    safely than manual adb uninstall --user 0 commands, and it also makes managing those "uninstalled" apps much easier.

    The reason UAD may be better than what I'm currently doing is they have curated lists and some times they choose to disable rather than uninstall some apps, which they know which ones they are, and I don't.

    Also restoring apps that were uninstalled is easier with UAD than the way I would do it (but I've done it and it isn't all that hard even with adb but you have to know the exact package name with adb but UAD has a GUI).

    Of course, the disadvantage of debloating with UAD is you need to have Shizuku trickle rooting enabled, but, at this point, I have that! :)

    Thanks to Jeff's question, which I opened and at the start of this reply I only wanted to help out my friend Jeff but I ended learning a lot.

    I hope this ad hoc off-the-cuff quick response is enough to be at least the initial starter reply to Jeff's unique and rather important question for
    this newsgroup of Android experts to ponder & flesh out more thoroughly
    than I can.

    I should caveat this by saying I could be wrong on anything I said above as
    I didn't have any successful experience with these tools in the past, but, maybe this brand new effort to look at Shizuku a second time will be fruitful.

    What I need now is to install one of the apps that uses Shizuku trickle privileges, which will likely be App Ops but this is already too long.

    I wondered if you'd played with either Canta or Shizuku, although
    Shizuku seemed more likely.

    I hadn't heard of either, and only came across Canta a couple of days
    ago when I did one of my infrequent peeks at "Latest" in F-Droid.
    Usually there's nothing of interest, but when "Canta" appeared it was of interest because my phone (like yours) is not rootable. I'd wondered,
    because of your previous posts mentioning that your phone was
    unrootable, if Canta/Shizuku might be of use, so posted that very open
    question here.

    Of course, nothing's simple, and it soon became apparent that Shizuku
    was required for Canta to work. If you ask me, it seems that Shizuku is
    the critical app, and Canta piggy-backs on it (like the other half-dozen
    or so apps you mentioned).

    Anyway, thanks for investigating what they do and how they work. It
    looks like they may be of even more use in future as manufacturers
    strive to put even more bloatware on new phones!

    --
    Jeff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Marion@21:1/5 to Jeff Layman on Tue Jul 1 15:21:17 2025
    On Tue, 1 Jul 2025 15:26:00 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote :


    But it turns out, based on my search results, that I didn't even need to
    use adb to start the Shizuku trickle rooter because there's a "pairing
    code" in Android 13 Wireless Debugging which eliminates the adb step.

    Good to know that it confirms adb isn't required.

    Hi Jeff,
    I agree. Shizuku works without adb. It even enables adb on the phone.
    Much like "localadb" (aka ladb) does - but for free (unlike ladb).

    Since I use adb every second of the day, it's not a big deal for me.
    Here are the distinctions I learned from searching your questions:

    a. If you use USB/ADB, then trickle rooting persists until reboot.
    b. If you use wireless (sans adb) it persists until a factor reset.
    c. However, if Android changes the port, then you have to repeat.

    I would not have known any of that had you not asked your question.
    Hence I appreciate that we can all learn together, as a team.

    Looks like Shizuku has
    had a helpful update since you tried it last. But I'm a bit confused -
    that link I gave at <https://shizuku-manager.en.uptodown.com/android>
    states "In order to use Shizuku on a non-rooted smartphone, you'll need
    to go through a somewhat complex process. Luckily, the app itself has a tutorial that explains what to do step by step. You'll need access to a
    PC and a cable to connect your Android smartphone to the computer." What
    are you connecting the smartphone to a computer for if it's not to use adb?

    Heh heh heh .... that's super confusing, isn't it? I agree.
    It's *simpler* than that - although I already know how to use adb.

    If you already are using adb, all you really do is cut and paste a single command that is the same command on every Android so it's just one step.
    adb shell sh /storage/emulated/0/Android/data/moe.shizuku.privileged.api/start.sh

    It's not too much more difficult to use wireless debugging without adb.
    But... and this is big... I had trouble with the necessary split screen.

    In summary, the "somewhat complex" process is different for each manner.
    A. If you use adb, then you have to know how to use adb first.
    B. If you use wireless, then you have to know how to use it first.

    Both require some knowledge ahead of time.
    Now, I have all that knowledge as I've been using adb & wireless debugging.

    But others might not have experience in using adb & wireless debugging.
    So they incur a learning curve hurdle that I've already long ago passed.

    Note that even with wireless debugging experience, my problem with setting
    up Shizuku a year ago was that you need SIMULTANEOUS access to both GUIs.

    This is said to restart the connection, but it's also said to be a bit
    flaky in that Android might change the port out from under Shizuku.

    Any reason it would do that other than perhaps an update to Android
    itself? Or is there something which sets port choice as a privilege for certain apps above others?

    Oh... oh my. You're asking the wrong person.
    Don't even get me started on the operating system changing ports under you.

    Seriously. It's happened to me so many times on Windows that I'm flustered. Hence, my advice is to accept that wireless debugging is flakier than adb.

    My assessment?
    a. It was a pain to set it up wirelessly (long ago),
    b. But it's plenty easy to set it up with adb/usb.

    I'm not clear - can it be set up wirelessly without adb?
    That should make things a bit easier.

    Let me first ask you a question (actually two questions).
    1. Have you ever set up adb over USB between the PC & Android?
    2. Have you ever set up adb over Wireless Debugging?
    Or... have you ever set up Wireless Debugging (w/o adb)?

    If you've never used adb (over either wireless debugging or usb), then you
    have a learning curve to overcome that I already long ago overcame.

    If you've never used wireless debugging (with or without adb), then you
    have a DIFFERENT learning curve to overcome that I already overcame.

    If you ask me, I'd recommend adb over USB for simplicity for Shizuku.
    Hands down.

    So now I need to find an app that I want that can use Shizuku.
    Searching, I found the following apps will take trickle rooting.
    1. App Ops - Permission Manager (by Rikka, Shizuku's developer)
    2. Universal Android Debloater (UAD)
    3. Hail / Ice Box / Canta (App Freezers/Disablers)
    4. DarQ
    5. LSposed (and its modules)
    6. AShell (or similar terminal apps)

    App Ops was mentioned in the Shizuku link, and I did look at it, but
    thought it was getting a bit OT for something which seemed complicated
    enough already!

    Well, the entire point of Shizuku is to trickle root a phone, but that
    doesn't do anything in and of itself without an app that uses it. :)

    You already seem to have picked Canta for that, which is fine.
    Apparently Canta is more focused on debloating than app freezing.

    What is it that you want to accomplish anyway?

    What I need now is to install one of the apps that uses Shizuku trickle
    privileges, which will likely be App Ops but this is already too long.

    I wondered if you'd played with either Canta or Shizuku, although
    Shizuku seemed more likely.

    Well, you can't play with Canta without Shizuku (or being rooted).

    I had "tried" Shizuku a year ago but failed using wireless debugging.
    The reason is it's a bitch to get SIMULTANEOUS inputs on my phone.

    I gave up too soon as I tried yesterday, after seeing your post.
    And I found it was trivial to activate Shizuku using adb over usb.

    But... and this is big... I've already climbed the adb learning curve.
    And I've already climbed the wireless debugging learning curve.

    If anyone wants to use Shizuku, they have to climb one of those.
    I would suggest using adb over USB for a whole bunch of reasons.

    I hadn't heard of either, and only came across Canta a couple of days
    ago when I did one of my infrequent peeks at "Latest" in F-Droid.
    Usually there's nothing of interest, but when "Canta" appeared it was of interest because my phone (like yours) is not rootable. I'd wondered,
    because of your previous posts mentioning that your phone was
    unrootable, if Canta/Shizuku might be of use, so posted that very open question here.

    I read every post to this newsgroup except those from Joerg or Alan.
    I think you're the first person to ask about these tools on this ng.

    That's why I stepped in to help.
    And in doing so, I learned more about Shizuku - which is good.

    As for Canta, I wouldn't even think of using it at this point.
    I'd use the Universal Android Debloater (UAD) with Shizuku instead.

    At the moment, I have no need for UAD though as I'm debloated.

    I debloated long ago every suspicious package, one by one using adb to uninstall packages that Muntashirakon listed for me as bloatware.

    Having done that manually, I can see the advantage of UAD.
    Next time I need to debloat, I'll probably use Shizuku with UAD.

    Of course, nothing's simple, and it soon became apparent that Shizuku
    was required for Canta to work. If you ask me, it seems that Shizuku is
    the critical app, and Canta piggy-backs on it (like the other half-dozen
    or so apps you mentioned).

    Yes. Shizuki is required for Canta to work on a non-rooted Android.

    Anyway, thanks for investigating what they do and how they work. It
    looks like they may be of even more use in future as manufacturers
    strive to put even more bloatware on new phones!

    I've never had problems with bloatware but I delete them on sight.
    Most people just complain about it. :)

    Anyway, thanks for bringing up this Shizuku/Canta stuff because in being purposefully helpful to you, I learned more about Android myself.

    My recommendation to others is:
    a. By all means, learn how to set up & use adb over USB.
    Then, if desired, learn how to set up & use adb over wireless debugging.
    b. Then, and only then, set up Shizuku using adb over USB
    Or, if desired, set up Shizuku using wireless debugging.

    The learning hurdle isn't in Shizuku.
    The learning hurdle is in setting up adb and/or wireless debugging.

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  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to Ivano Rossi on Tue Jul 1 11:22:27 2025
    Ivano Rossi <[email protected]> wrote:

    On Tue, 1 Jul 2025 05:49:19 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

    Jeff Layman <[email protected]d> wrote:

    Anyone here tried Canta and Shizuku? Evidently gives partial root access >>> to phones which cannot be rooted, and appears to do so without using
    adb, allowing unwanted apps to the uninstalled.

    <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.samo_lego.canta/>

    That says it is deprecated, and to get a new version at:

    https://f-droid.org/en/packages/io.github.samolego.canta

    <https://shizuku-manager.en.uptodown.com/android>

    Also available at the Play Store:
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=moe.shizuku.privileged.api

    I don't use them, but you need both installed. First you need Shizuku,
    and then add Canta.

    What does "activate" mean? That you have to register to activate? Or
    buy something, like a license?

    "This app promotes or depends entirely on a non-free network service."

    Is this adware?

    "This app depends on other non-free apps."

    Canta requires the Shizuku app which allows it and other apps to
    directly access system APIs. For Shizuku, "Supports adb usage", so ADB
    is used after all, but maybe you don't need to delve into Developer
    Options to enable USB Debug (ADB) mode. A screenshot at the Play Store
    (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=moe.shizuku.privileged.api) >> shows "Shizuku is running - Version 8, adb".

    I didn't dig into the Shizuku app, but I didn't see it overtly declared
    as payware; however, with mention of requiring non-free apps, perhaps
    cost is not be revealed until after you install and try to use the app.
    Just what other non-free apps are required?

    Most of the negative (1-star) reviews at the Play Store are about this
    app constantly losing wireless connectivity.

    The Play Store app page says Shizuku works on Android 7, and up. Well,
    come on, the APIs have changed a lot since then. Some of the negative
    reports are about trying to use this app on older Android version.
    Shizuku was updated on Mar 10, 2024, but Android 15+ came out later.

    Why do you ask questions which were already answered in the thread?

    I don't see posts (and any subthreads) by Marion. If you want a view of
    Usenet that shows everyone (i.e., you use no filters), you go right
    ahead.

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  • From Jeff Layman@21:1/5 to Marion on Tue Jul 1 22:29:04 2025
    On 01/07/2025 16:21, Marion wrote:
    On Tue, 1 Jul 2025 15:26:00 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote :


    But it turns out, based on my search results, that I didn't even need to >>> use adb to start the Shizuku trickle rooter because there's a "pairing
    code" in Android 13 Wireless Debugging which eliminates the adb step.

    Good to know that it confirms adb isn't required.

    Hi Jeff,
    I agree. Shizuku works without adb. It even enables adb on the phone.
    Much like "localadb" (aka ladb) does - but for free (unlike ladb).

    Since I use adb every second of the day, it's not a big deal for me.
    Here are the distinctions I learned from searching your questions:

    a. If you use USB/ADB, then trickle rooting persists until reboot.
    b. If you use wireless (sans adb) it persists until a factor reset.
    c. However, if Android changes the port, then you have to repeat.

    I would not have known any of that had you not asked your question.
    Hence I appreciate that we can all learn together, as a team.

    Looks like Shizuku has
    had a helpful update since you tried it last. But I'm a bit confused -
    that link I gave at <https://shizuku-manager.en.uptodown.com/android>
    states "In order to use Shizuku on a non-rooted smartphone, you'll need
    to go through a somewhat complex process. Luckily, the app itself has a
    tutorial that explains what to do step by step. You'll need access to a
    PC and a cable to connect your Android smartphone to the computer." What
    are you connecting the smartphone to a computer for if it's not to use adb?

    Heh heh heh .... that's super confusing, isn't it? I agree.
    It's *simpler* than that - although I already know how to use adb.

    If you already are using adb, all you really do is cut and paste a single command that is the same command on every Android so it's just one step.
    C:\> adb shell sh /storage/emulated/0/Android/data/moe.shizuku.privileged.api/start.sh

    It's not too much more difficult to use wireless debugging without adb. But... and this is big... I had trouble with the necessary split screen.

    In summary, the "somewhat complex" process is different for each manner.
    A. If you use adb, then you have to know how to use adb first.
    B. If you use wireless, then you have to know how to use it first.

    Both require some knowledge ahead of time.
    Now, I have all that knowledge as I've been using adb & wireless debugging.

    But others might not have experience in using adb & wireless debugging.
    So they incur a learning curve hurdle that I've already long ago passed.

    Note that even with wireless debugging experience, my problem with setting
    up Shizuku a year ago was that you need SIMULTANEOUS access to both GUIs.

    This is said to restart the connection, but it's also said to be a bit
    flaky in that Android might change the port out from under Shizuku.

    Any reason it would do that other than perhaps an update to Android
    itself? Or is there something which sets port choice as a privilege for
    certain apps above others?

    Oh... oh my. You're asking the wrong person.
    Don't even get me started on the operating system changing ports under you.

    Seriously. It's happened to me so many times on Windows that I'm flustered. Hence, my advice is to accept that wireless debugging is flakier than adb.

    My assessment?
    a. It was a pain to set it up wirelessly (long ago),
    b. But it's plenty easy to set it up with adb/usb.

    I'm not clear - can it be set up wirelessly without adb?
    That should make things a bit easier.

    Let me first ask you a question (actually two questions).
    1. Have you ever set up adb over USB between the PC & Android?
    2. Have you ever set up adb over Wireless Debugging?
    Or... have you ever set up Wireless Debugging (w/o adb)?

    If you've never used adb (over either wireless debugging or usb), then you have a learning curve to overcome that I already long ago overcame.

    If you've never used wireless debugging (with or without adb), then you
    have a DIFFERENT learning curve to overcome that I already overcame.

    If you ask me, I'd recommend adb over USB for simplicity for Shizuku.
    Hands down.

    So now I need to find an app that I want that can use Shizuku.
    Searching, I found the following apps will take trickle rooting.
    1. App Ops - Permission Manager (by Rikka, Shizuku's developer)
    2. Universal Android Debloater (UAD)
    3. Hail / Ice Box / Canta (App Freezers/Disablers)
    4. DarQ
    5. LSposed (and its modules)
    6. AShell (or similar terminal apps)

    App Ops was mentioned in the Shizuku link, and I did look at it, but
    thought it was getting a bit OT for something which seemed complicated
    enough already!

    Well, the entire point of Shizuku is to trickle root a phone, but that doesn't do anything in and of itself without an app that uses it. :)

    You already seem to have picked Canta for that, which is fine.
    Apparently Canta is more focused on debloating than app freezing.

    What is it that you want to accomplish anyway?

    What I need now is to install one of the apps that uses Shizuku trickle
    privileges, which will likely be App Ops but this is already too long.

    I wondered if you'd played with either Canta or Shizuku, although
    Shizuku seemed more likely.

    Well, you can't play with Canta without Shizuku (or being rooted).

    I had "tried" Shizuku a year ago but failed using wireless debugging.
    The reason is it's a bitch to get SIMULTANEOUS inputs on my phone.

    I gave up too soon as I tried yesterday, after seeing your post.
    And I found it was trivial to activate Shizuku using adb over usb.

    But... and this is big... I've already climbed the adb learning curve.
    And I've already climbed the wireless debugging learning curve.

    If anyone wants to use Shizuku, they have to climb one of those.
    I would suggest using adb over USB for a whole bunch of reasons.

    I hadn't heard of either, and only came across Canta a couple of days
    ago when I did one of my infrequent peeks at "Latest" in F-Droid.
    Usually there's nothing of interest, but when "Canta" appeared it was of
    interest because my phone (like yours) is not rootable. I'd wondered,
    because of your previous posts mentioning that your phone was
    unrootable, if Canta/Shizuku might be of use, so posted that very open
    question here.

    I read every post to this newsgroup except those from Joerg or Alan.
    I think you're the first person to ask about these tools on this ng.

    That's why I stepped in to help.
    And in doing so, I learned more about Shizuku - which is good.

    As for Canta, I wouldn't even think of using it at this point.
    I'd use the Universal Android Debloater (UAD) with Shizuku instead.

    At the moment, I have no need for UAD though as I'm debloated.

    I debloated long ago every suspicious package, one by one using adb to uninstall packages that Muntashirakon listed for me as bloatware.

    Having done that manually, I can see the advantage of UAD.
    Next time I need to debloat, I'll probably use Shizuku with UAD.

    Of course, nothing's simple, and it soon became apparent that Shizuku
    was required for Canta to work. If you ask me, it seems that Shizuku is
    the critical app, and Canta piggy-backs on it (like the other half-dozen
    or so apps you mentioned).

    Yes. Shizuki is required for Canta to work on a non-rooted Android.

    Anyway, thanks for investigating what they do and how they work. It
    looks like they may be of even more use in future as manufacturers
    strive to put even more bloatware on new phones!

    I've never had problems with bloatware but I delete them on sight.
    Most people just complain about it. :)

    Anyway, thanks for bringing up this Shizuku/Canta stuff because in being purposefully helpful to you, I learned more about Android myself.

    My recommendation to others is:
    a. By all means, learn how to set up & use adb over USB.
    Then, if desired, learn how to set up & use adb over wireless debugging. b. Then, and only then, set up Shizuku using adb over USB
    Or, if desired, set up Shizuku using wireless debugging.

    The learning hurdle isn't in Shizuku.
    The learning hurdle is in setting up adb and/or wireless debugging.

    I haven't used adb. There is a linux version available for Linux Mint
    but I've yet to install it. However, as Shizuku doesn't require it, I'll
    follow the instructions here to install it using wireless debugging <https://shizuku.rikka.app/guide/setup/>. As you noted, it's a bit
    complicated, but when I've got time I'll have a look. Then I'll probably
    try UAD first.

    As a final comment, it seems strange to me that F-Droid has Canta, but
    doesn't have Shizuku.

    --
    Jeff

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  • From Qihe@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 2 04:30:46 2025
    Jeff Layman <[email protected]d> ha scritto:

    Anyone here tried Canta and Shizuku? Evidently gives partial root access
    to phones which cannot be rooted, and appears to do so without using
    adb, allowing unwanted apps to the uninstalled. <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.samo_lego.canta/> <https://shizuku-manager.en.uptodown.com/android>


    It works...I can't tell exactly what i did but I got my phone
    "debloated".
    Basically I tried following Marion's steps. The tricky point was
    getting shizuku paired in some way: you need your smartphone
    connected via WiFi to another hotspot device that actually no
    needs any internet connection up, no public IP... How to say...
    Hotspot and client were connected but offline ).

    Once you got shizuku paired (with itself?) then you can install
    Canta e remove any app.

    --
    Qihe

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  • From Anssi Saari@21:1/5 to Qihe on Wed Jul 2 11:21:03 2025
    Qihe <[email protected]d> writes:

    It works...I can't tell exactly what i did but I got my phone
    "debloated".

    So what's the point of this debloating then? Uninstalling a few apps to
    get a few megabytes extra storage?

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  • From R.Wieser@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 2 11:00:44 2025
    Anssi Saari,

    So what's the point of this debloating then?

    Less spyware ? Less (useless) notifications ? Less advertisements ? Less "invitations" to subscribe to stuff you don't need ? A longer battery life
    ?

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser

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  • From Qihe@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 2 11:47:14 2025
    "R.Wieser" <[email protected]d> ha scritto:

    Anssi Saari,

    So what's the point of this debloating then?

    Less spyware ? Less (useless) notifications ? Less advertisements ? Less "invitations" to subscribe to stuff you don't need ? A longer battery life
    ?


    ...and less "easter eggs", less "chrome" (if you"re using another
    browser), less google play store (if you prefer f-droid, Aurora
    or App Finder), less fm radio (never been working!)... Less
    software to update ...and less pc as long as you can debloat all
    of these directly via smartphone.

    Most of all, you get that nice feeling... Kind of freedom in your
    choices.
    :-)

    --
    Qihe

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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to Qihe on Wed Jul 2 12:54:33 2025
    On 2025-07-02 11:47, Qihe wrote:
    "R.Wieser" <[email protected]d> ha scritto:

    Anssi Saari,

    So what's the point of this debloating then?

    Less spyware ? Less (useless) notifications ? Less advertisements ? Less >> "invitations" to subscribe to stuff you don't need ? A longer battery life >> ?


    ...and less "easter eggs", less "chrome" (if you"re using another
    browser), less google play store (if you prefer f-droid, Aurora
    or App Finder), less fm radio (never been working!)... Less
    software to update ...and less pc as long as you can debloat all
    of these directly via smartphone.

    Most of all, you get that nice feeling... Kind of freedom in your
    choices.
    :-)

    Last time I wanted to uninstall some nuisance apps that were installed
    on factory, I could not, but I could disable them. That is enough for me.



    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

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  • From Marion@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Wed Jul 2 18:59:28 2025
    On Wed, 2 Jul 2025 12:54:33 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :


    Anssi Saari,

    So what's the point of this debloating then?

    Less spyware ? Less (useless) notifications ? Less advertisements ? Less
    "invitations" to subscribe to stuff you don't need ? A longer battery life >>> ?


    ...and less "easter eggs", less "chrome" (if you"re using another
    browser), less google play store (if you prefer f-droid, Aurora
    or App Finder), less fm radio (never been working!)... Less
    software to update ...and less pc as long as you can debloat all
    of these directly via smartphone.

    Most of all, you get that nice feeling... Kind of freedom in your
    choices.
    :-)

    Last time I wanted to uninstall some nuisance apps that were installed
    on factory, I could not, but I could disable them. That is enough for me.

    I will agree with anyone who makes a sensible statement and yet, I'll
    disagree with anyone who doesn't understand the point of debloating.

    To that end, I thank Qihe for testing out Shizuku wireless-debugging (which
    I had given up on when I couldn't get my split screen to work right). And I thank Qihe for testing Canta (which I didn't test) and to the point of this
    sub thread, I fully agree with Qihe there is a "nice feeling" to have
    control over your Android that perhaps Google & the OEM and the Carrier
    might not want you to have (e.g., remove carrier-inserted advertisements).

    I also agree with Rudy, which, if you know me and Rudy, we're oil and water different, but I agree with anyone who makes a sensibly logical statement.

    In my case, removing the T-Mobile "diagnostic" apps wipes out T-Mobile
    spyware, and removing the T-Mobile Sliide "feature" gives me fewer "invitations" and no advertisements, and removal of pre-installed bloatware
    can only be good - there is no downside - in terms of reliability and
    battery life.

    With respect to Carlos' point, I've rarely had issues uninstalling
    bloatware using adb - but if he's only using the Android SETTINGS GUI, he's gonna have more problems. Even so, in agreement with Carlos, some bloatware can't be uninstalled easily even with adb so it has to be stopped and/or disabled instead.

    Meanwhile, that exact problem set is the whole point of Canta/Shizuku!

    I thank Jeff for opening this thread because it allows all of us to learn
    from each other - which is - after all - the whole point of Usenet.

    Next time I need to debloat, I'm going to use ADB with Shizuku.
    But for now, I'm already debloated with adb.

    In summary, to answer the question from Anssi Saari, there are a million
    GOOD REASONS for debloating, and, well, I can't think of a single bad one.

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  • From Marion@21:1/5 to Jeff Layman on Wed Jul 2 18:43:58 2025
    On Tue, 1 Jul 2025 22:29:04 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote :


    The learning hurdle isn't in Shizuku.
    The learning hurdle is in setting up adb and/or wireless debugging.

    I haven't used adb. There is a linux version available for Linux Mint
    but I've yet to install it.

    I use adb standalone.
    C:\app\android\adb\adb.exe

    You don't really "install" it. You just copy it and unzip it.
    It works on all three PC platforms so you're just fine on Linux.

    It's just an executable (adb.exe) on Windows, plus some "stuff".
    dir /b adb*
    adb
    adb.exe
    adb.help
    AdbWinApi.dll
    AdbWinUsbApi.dll

    Most people get adb by accident when they install Android Studio.
    But I use an older adb version that I simply copied from somewhere.
    Let me see where I got it from (but you'll need the Linux adb).
    OK. Found it. I got it from here:
    <https://www.xda-developers.com/install-adb-windows-macos-linux/>

    However, as Shizuku doesn't require it, I'll
    follow the instructions here to install it using wireless debugging <https://shizuku.rikka.app/guide/setup/>. As you noted, it's a bit complicated, but when I've got time I'll have a look. Then I'll probably
    try UAD first.

    When Wireless Debugging first came out, Andy and I discussed it a lot on
    this newsgroup, as it was getting more functional around Android 10 or 11
    and 12 or so, but then it started fossilizing into what it is currently.

    It's fine. But it's designed with SECURITY in mind. SO it's a PITA.
    It constantly changes the port out from under you.
    At least with adb it does.

    So, one day you're using port 123456 and the next day you're using the port 654321, and you get no choice in the matter (at least with adb that's what
    it does). Every connection has a new port. It's a pita if you ask me.

    SO I haven't used wireless debugging in a while because USB is easier.
    Given that, and given you need SIMULTANEOUS split screen inputs for
    Shizuku, I seriously do NOT suggest you use wireless debugging.

    There's no advantage.
    The only advantages of using Shizuku with wireless debugging is:
    a. You don't need a PC to activate Shizuku
    b. It survives a reboot

    That's it. It's not worth the effort if you ask me.
    The only disadvantage of using adb with USB are the same:
    a. You need a PC
    b. It doesn't survive a reboot

    If you ask me, adb is (by far) the way to go.
    Plus, I use adb every single day. It's an extremely useful tool.

    Wireless debugging? Not so much.
    SO it's adb hands down.

    As a final comment, it seems strange to me that F-Droid has Canta, but doesn't have Shizuku.

    Unlike Apple trolls (and Carlos), I can look things up, where I looked that
    up and found that Canta is FOSS so it fits well within F-DRoid while
    Shizuku's developers chose to release via GitHub & the Google repo.

    However, you can often find Shizuku in third-party F-Droid compatible repositories like IzzyOnDroid, so, it's not an iron-clad distinction.

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