Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

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On 3/22/2025 12:16 PM, micky wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

There is a disturbing new version of Sleep, which allows
Microsoft spyware apps to continue to go online. I expect
that will turn out to be a grave security issue one of these
days. There's also Sleep and Hibernate, which are
different versions of saving the current state of the system.
However, shut down is shut down. There are options
like Wake on LAN, and my current homebuilt computer can
be started by hitting a key, so there is some kind of wakable
aspect in shutdown. But there's nothing running.

I've heard that some cellphones can no longer be turned off
or "powered off". Mine can be. The method to do it varies,
but there should be an option for your phone where you can
show a Power Off option onscreen. Sometimes it requires
holding down two buttons, or it may require using an onscreen
option. Once done, it has to be
started and booted in order to make or receive calls. It's off.
No pinging cell towers. No ability to bring the screen to life.
No showing up in Google's Geofencing. My TracFone holds a
charge for months. If I leave it powered on, despite a blank
screen, it seems to last only 1-2 days. I suppose that's because
it still has to continue pinging in order to be able to get a call.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 03/22/2025 12:16 PM, micky wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

Shutdown stops everything.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/gadgets-news/explained-shutdown-sleep-and-hibernate-in-windows-11-what-they-do-and-when-to-use-them/articleshow/104684391.cms

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On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 13:41:40 -0400, Newyana2 wrote :

There is a disturbing new version of Sleep

Always striving to add technical value since I'm a purposefully helpful
guy, Newyana2 is correct. For modern Androids, there can be sleep states...
a. Standby
The screen is off and some background processes are suspended.
b. Doze
Which has different levels depending on the hardware.
c. Hibernate
Which saves the current state to storage.

AFAIK, in the context of Android, and in the context of the next level...
1. Poweroff closes apps & processes & clears RAM.
2. Restart closes apps & processes & clears RAM.
3. And there are a few states in between those two.

A key difference is the bootloader is intimately involved in the poweroff:startup, whereas the bootloader "may" not be involved in the
typical restart process. Moreover, "bootloader mode" is in between.

AFAIK, there are also low-power data-collection hubs in modern Androids
which are actually processors that are independent of the main SoC which collect data from sensors (accelerometer, gyroscope, magnetometer, etc.).

Note that "trackers" take advantage of some of those low-power states.
For example, in an iPhone, the tracking happens even when the user "thinks"
he has fully turned off his phone (but the battery is still inside it).

I've heard that some cellphones can no longer be turned off
or "powered off".

In the context of the next level, there exists a reduced-power state called
the "battery saver mode" which is the "appearance" of being turned off,
when it's not really off.

In fact, some hardware is always powered, AFAIK, given all Androids (AFAIK)
can charge even when the phone appears to be powered off and some have always-on sensors (like accelerometers) which operate in very low-power
states (as likely do real-time clocks which keep track of time even when
the main OS is off).

As I alluded to, there's an in-between "bootloader mode" or "fastboot mode" (which is actually a communication protocol) which is a distinct state from
the reboot/restart modes as it provides low-level access to the firmware.

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Marion, 2025-03-22 20:07:

[...]

AFAIK, there are also low-power data-collection hubs in modern Androids
which are actually processors that are independent of the main SoC which collect data from sensors (accelerometer, gyroscope, magnetometer, etc.).

These exists since the beginning of Android. The whole mobile network
section including GPS and many other sensors is a computer on its own.

[...]

In fact, some hardware is always powered, AFAIK, given all Androids (AFAIK) can charge even when the phone appears to be powered off and some have always-on sensors (like accelerometers) which operate in very low-power states (as likely do real-time clocks which keep track of time even when
the main OS is off).

Depending on the device there is also some indication for the charge
process even when Android is shut down. This is also supported by quite
old devices like some older Samsung smartphones or tablets which display
a battery symbol when charging even when the device was shut down.

But this does not mean, that Android itself is still running in this
state. This only requires some simple firmware function to display a
charge state on the display.

As I alluded to, there's an in-between "bootloader mode" or "fastboot mode" (which is actually a communication protocol) which is a distinct state from the reboot/restart modes as it provides low-level access to the firmware.

"Fastboot mode" is the state, where the firmware accepts "fastboot"
commands. "fastboot" is a commandline tool and part of the Android
developer tools. For example you can use fastboot to unlock the bootloader.

See here for details:

<https://android.googlesource.com/platform/system/core/+/master/fastboot/README.md>

The "bootloader mode" on the other hand is usually intended to install
new firmware via USB. You may also have some kind of recovery software
which will start first and allows you to do some diagnostics or wipe the memory. This may be activated by some key combinations during startup.
Many devices enter the recovery when pressing Power + Volume up during
startup. With TWRP (Team Win Recovery Project) you get a quite powerful
toolset which allows to install OS images, do backups and so on.

Also see:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWRP_(software)>
<https://twrp.me/>


--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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Marion wrote:

AFAIK, there are also low-power data-collection hubs in modern Androids
which are actually processors that are independent of the main SoC which collect data from sensors (accelerometer, gyroscope, magnetometer, etc.).

Note that "trackers" take advantage of some of those low-power states.

For android devices, I'm not aware of "auxilliary" devices collecting
data when the phone is off.

One of the final acts before the main SoC shuts down is to compute the
contents of some bluetooth beacons, which will be transmitted by the "auxilliary" device while the phone as a whole is "off", to participate
in google's "find my device" network.

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micky, 2025-03-22 17:16:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

No. If you shut down Android using the power menu it will always
completely shut down and won't "hibernate" as Windows does by default.


--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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On 2025-03-22 18:41, Newyana2 wrote:

  I've heard that some cellphones can no longer be turned off
or "powered off".

Let the battery run down.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

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On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 12:13:09 +0000, Andy Burns wrote :

Note that "trackers" take advantage of some of those low-power states.

For android devices, I'm not aware of "auxilliary" devices collecting
data when the phone is off.

Thanks Andy for that clarification, as I'm not the expert on this.
You and Arno know more about it than I do. I'm just guessing how it works.

Looking it up, it seems only the newest devices do what I said.
*Android 15's Find My Device could let you find your Pixel 8 when it's turned off *
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/android-15s-find-my-device-could-let-you-find-your-pixel-8-when-its-turned-off/>
"When Android devices are powered off, the Bluetooth turns off as well,
meaning a device can't be located by Find My Device or help find
other devices. An upcoming Powered Off Finding feature would let
the device store beacons in the Bluetooth controller's memory.
That way, even if the device isn't turned on, it can still see
and be seen by other devices."

Two-way would be an interesting legal issue, as I remember looooong ago,
some TLA bugged the Motorola phones of mobsters, as I recall. Let me look
that one up to be sure of how they did the communication FROM the phone.

Ah, found it! Although it seems the phones were just "inactive", which is different from being turned off. To flesh out that case before U.S.
District Judge Lewis Kaplan, apparently the FBI remotely activated the microphones on the cell phones of Genovese crime family members in New
York, effectively turning the seemingly inactive phones into listening
devices. They flashed the firmware of Nextel, Motorola Razr, and certain Samsung models which all were susceptible to this technique.

But that's NOT the same thing as listening when the phone appears to be
turned off. In that case, the phone was just not being used at the time. <https://www.zdnet.com/article/fbi-taps-cell-phone-mic-as-eavesdropping-tool/> <https://www.rcrwireless.com/20061216/archived-articles/roving-bugs#:~:text=Government%20investigators%20were%20able%20to,least%20as%20far%20as%20the>

One of the final acts before the main SoC shuts down is to compute the contents of some bluetooth beacons, which will be transmitted by the "auxilliary" device while the phone as a whole is "off", to participate
in google's "find my device" network.

You said it better'n I did in that I think what you're saying is "some"
stuff can still "transmit" when the phone "appears" to be turned off.
*How we built the new Find My Device network*
<https://security.googleblog.com/2024/04/find-my-device-network-security-privacy-protections.html>

I don't have a modern phone (mine is from 2021) but I think the "Find My Device" network (which I do not participate in, as you can expect), relies partly on BLE beacons, which, I think, "can" (in some newer phones?) emit
well after the phone "appears" to be turned off.
*Do Bluetooth and Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) use phone data and battery?*
<https://www.pointr.tech/blog/bluetooth-low-energy-ble-use-phone-data-battery#:~:text=The%20difference%20between%20a%20beacon,the%20case%20of%20BLE)%20before>

It's complicated, but since I'm stuck on Android 13, I won't worry. :)
*Find My Device can locate your Google Pixel 9 even when it's powered off*
<https://www.androidpolice.com/find-my-device-google-pixel-9/>

So I'll start worrying with Android 15 and the Pixel 9 leading the way.
*Pixel 9 series supports Find My Device's ability to locate switched-off devices*
<https://www.androidauthority.com/pixel-9-find-my-switched-off-3473133/>

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On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not >completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

And I can't imagaine it being different in Android.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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On 2025-03-24 09:04, Steve Hayes wrote:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not
completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

And I can't imagaine it being different in Android.

No. In Windows version <= 7, both completely shut down the PC, and
restart then restarts it. But in versions >= 8, restart completely
shuts down the PC before restarting it, but by default shutdown only
hibernates it:

As I've posted to various Windows ngs before, Windows versions since 8
have a 'Fast startup' feature enabled by default, whose sole purpose is
to reduce boot time, but I have it disabled, because otherwise backing
up your system disk using imaging software may not work properly, as I discovered when using Ghost for this. The shut down state using this is
akin to hibernation, and IME it is not safe to image a hibernated OS
partition, as on restore this may corrupt other partitions such as data partitions, which logically you'd think should be unaffected.

The following page explains some of this quite well, but I don't think
mentions the imaging problem among the reasons to turn it off, whereas
for me it's the most important one:

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-disable-windows-10-fast-startup

To disable it you need to use the legacy Vista+ Power Control Panel:
Settings
System
Power and sleep
Additional power settings (takes you to the legacy Power CP)
Choose what the power buttons do
Change settings that are currently unavailable
Disable 'Turn on fast start-up'
Save changes

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

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On 22.03.25 17:16, micky wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

No. If an Android device is powered down all processes of Android end.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

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On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 11:17:08 +0000, Java Jive <[email protected]d>
wrote:

On 2025-03-24 09:04, Steve Hayes wrote:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not
completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

And I can't imagaine it being different in Android.

No. In Windows version <= 7, both completely shut down the PC, and
restart then restarts it. But in versions >= 8, restart completely
shuts down the PC before restarting it, but by default shutdown only >hibernates it:

So if you want to actually shut it down you need to restart it and
switch it off at the wall socket before it actually restarts?




--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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On 2025-03-25 06:53, Steve Hayes wrote:

On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 11:17:08 +0000, Java Jive <[email protected]d>
wrote:

On 2025-03-24 09:04, Steve Hayes wrote:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not
completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

And I can't imagaine it being different in Android.

No. In Windows version <= 7, both completely shut down the PC, and
restart then restarts it. But in versions >= 8, restart completely
shuts down the PC before restarting it, but by default shutdown only
hibernates it:

So if you want to actually shut it down you need to restart it and
switch it off at the wall socket before it actually restarts?

It depends on why you need to shut it down. For imaging, yes, that
would be one way of doing it, but I'd simply disable the setting instead.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

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Steve Hayes, 2025-03-24 10:04:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not
completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

No, it's exactly the opposite - because "shutdown" is what people do all
the time when they want turn off their computers. For this very reason
Windows does only hibernate by default - which means it stores the
current RAM content on the SSD so the last state including all open applications will be restored when turning on the computer the next time.

However when a user does *restart* Windows, then he does that to make
sure, the system is in a defined state - and for this reasons Windows
will *not* hibernate and restore the current state when it is restarted.


--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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Jörg Lorenz, 2025-03-24 16:11:

On 22.03.25 17:16, micky wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not
completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

No. If an Android device is powered down all processes of Android end.

In Windows too. A Windows computer will completely stop doing anything
when it is shut down.

But the point is: there is no snapshot of the RAM in Android, so when
Android is powered on again, it will start from the beginning without
any previously running apps or services while Windows will restore the
state as it was before it was shut down.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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Steve Hayes, 2025-03-25 07:53:

On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 11:17:08 +0000, Java Jive <[email protected]d>
wrote:

[...]

No. In Windows version <= 7, both completely shut down the PC, and
restart then restarts it. But in versions >= 8, restart completely
shuts down the PC before restarting it, but by default shutdown only
hibernates it:

So if you want to actually shut it down you need to restart it and
switch it off at the wall socket before it actually restarts?

Exactly.

Or you just configure the energy options in the way as explained:
Disable "Turn on fast start-up".


--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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On 3/25/2025 2:53 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:

So if you want to actually shut it down you need to restart it and
switch it off at the wall socket before it actually restarts?

Fast startup depends on the hardware and settings. If you're
computer can even do it, you can turn it off in power settings.
You can also disable Hibernate, which is required for fast startup.

I have Hibernate disabled, with no C:\hiberfil.sys, and see no
fast startup option at all. Some people want Hibernate enabled.
Personally I have no use for it. I shut down if I'm going to be
away for hours and sleep (level 3) otherwise. I don't find that
it's a hair-pulling ordeal to wait 30 seonds for my computer to
boot. I also like keeping the system lean and the hiberfil file
takes up A LOT of space.

If you don't use Hibernate and want to be free of all this,
just run the command line: powercfg -h off
When you reboot, hiberfil.sys will be gone, but you can still
go into sleep mode. (But also watch out for sleep mode
4, which allows MS apps to go online! No joke.)

I'm not clear about the hardware requirements. I built this
computer about 1 year ago, but not with the newest hardware.
Can it even support Fast startup? I don't know.

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Arno Welzel <[email protected]> wrote:

Steve Hayes, 2025-03-24 10:04:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not
completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

No, it's exactly the opposite - because "shutdown" is what people do all
the time when they want turn off their computers. For this very reason Windows does only hibernate by default - which means it stores the
current RAM content on the SSD so the last state including all open applications will be restored when turning on the computer the next time.

Sorry, but that's not correct. If you do a 'Shut down' the system will
only save the OS to 'disk', not the open applications. And it will only
save to 'disk' if Fast Startup is enabled (which is the default).

N.B. If your comment was correct, there would be no 'Hibernate' choice
in the 'Power' menu.

However when a user does *restart* Windows, then he does that to make
sure, the system is in a defined state - and for this reasons Windows
will *not* hibernate and restore the current state when it is restarted.

It's actually better to do a Shut down (with Fast Restart disabled),
wait some time and then do a bootup, to get the software and hardware in
a defined 'cold' bootup state. Some electronics, mainly capacitors but
also some other electronics, can take some time to get back in their
'cold' state. Most of the time a Restart will be enough, but for strange problems it's wise to try Shut down, wait, power on/bootup.

For an authorative reference:

Message-ID: <vhquac$1bqtd$[email protected]> <http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cvhquac%241bqtd%241%40dont-email.me%3E>

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On 3/26/25 8:25 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <[email protected]> wrote:

Steve Hayes, 2025-03-24 10:04:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not
completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

No, it's exactly the opposite - because "shutdown" is what people do all
the time when they want turn off their computers. For this very reason
Windows does only hibernate by default - which means it stores the
current RAM content on the SSD so the last state including all open
applications will be restored when turning on the computer the next time.

Sorry, but that's not correct. If you do a 'Shut down' the system will
only save the OS to 'disk', not the open applications.

I always thought the Windows OS was permanently on the 'disk' and thus
didn't need to be resaved at each shutdown.

And it will only
save to 'disk' if Fast Startup is enabled (which is the default).

For the first time in decades (IIRC I started at DOS 5) I'm going Windows
free. I gave away my last LT to a greatgrandkid and will now live on
Android and Chrome OS. (Also Fire OS but that's really Android.) So it's
now fast start for me for the duration. Whoopee... 8-O

N.B. If your comment was correct, there would be no 'Hibernate' choice
in the 'Power' menu.

However when a user does *restart* Windows, then he does that to make
sure, the system is in a defined state - and for this reasons Windows
will *not* hibernate and restore the current state when it is restarted.

It's actually better to do a Shut down (with Fast Restart disabled),
wait some time and then do a bootup, to get the software and hardware in
a defined 'cold' bootup state. Some electronics, mainly capacitors but
also some other electronics, can take some time to get back in their
'cold' state. Most of the time a Restart will be enough, but for strange >problems it's wise to try Shut down, wait, power on/bootup.

For an authorative reference:

Message-ID: <vhquac$1bqtd$[email protected]> ><http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cvhquac%241bqtd%241%40dont-email.me%3E>

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AJL <[email protected]> wrote:

On 3/26/25 8:25 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <[email protected]> wrote:

Steve Hayes, 2025-03-24 10:04:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not >> >> completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

No, it's exactly the opposite - because "shutdown" is what people do all >> the time when they want turn off their computers. For this very reason
Windows does only hibernate by default - which means it stores the
current RAM content on the SSD so the last state including all open
applications will be restored when turning on the computer the next time.

Sorry, but that's not correct. If you do a 'Shut down' the system will
only save the OS to 'disk', not the open applications.

[Moved back where it belongs (for context):]

And it will only
save to 'disk' if Fast Startup is enabled (which is the default).

I always thought the Windows OS was permanently on the 'disk' and thus
didn't need to be resaved at each shutdown.

We're talking about the *active* version of the OS. That is saved to
'disk' (if Fast Startup is enabled).

The idea is that Windows does not have to go through the whole process
of booting up, starting all the devices, services, etc., etc..

Just compare it to resuming from hibernation (which does much *more*
than saving the OS to 'disk'). Isn't that much, much faster than a cold
boot? Saving only the OS to 'disk' gives a similar speedup.

But all of this is moot to us (ex-)laptop users, because we only
shutdown or restart when we must. At all other times, we let the system
sleep or hibernate.

For the first time in decades (IIRC I started at DOS 5) I'm going Windows
free. I gave away my last LT to a greatgrandkid and will now live on
Android and Chrome OS. (Also Fire OS but that's really Android.) So it's
now fast start for me for the duration. Whoopee... 8-O

Lucky you! Too much of my need/want stuff is Windows-only, so I can't
switch to another platform.

[...]

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On 3/26/25 11:34 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

AJL <[email protected]> wrote:

On 3/26/25 8:25 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <[email protected]> wrote:

Steve Hayes, 2025-03-24 10:04:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not >> >> >> completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

No, it's exactly the opposite - because "shutdown" is what people do all >> >> the time when they want turn off their computers. For this very reason
Windows does only hibernate by default - which means it stores the
current RAM content on the SSD so the last state including all open
applications will be restored when turning on the computer the next time. >>

Sorry, but that's not correct. If you do a 'Shut down' the system will
only save the OS to 'disk', not the open applications.

[Moved back where it belongs (for context):]

And it will only
save to 'disk' if Fast Startup is enabled (which is the default).

I always thought the Windows OS was permanently on the 'disk' and thus
didn't need to be resaved at each shutdown.

We're talking about the *active* version of the OS. That is saved to
'disk' (if Fast Startup is enabled).

The idea is that Windows does not have to go through the whole process
of booting up, starting all the devices, services, etc., etc..

Just compare it to resuming from hibernation (which does much *more*
than saving the OS to 'disk'). Isn't that much, much faster than a cold
boot? Saving only the OS to 'disk' gives a similar speedup.

But all of this is moot to us (ex-)laptop users, because we only
shutdown or restart when we must. At all other times, we let the system
sleep or hibernate.

For the first time in decades (IIRC I started at DOS 5) I'm going Windows
free. I gave away my last LT to a greatgrandkid and will now live on
Android and Chrome OS. (Also Fire OS but that's really Android.) So it's
now fast start for me for the duration. Whoopee... 8-O

Lucky you! Too much of my need/want stuff is Windows-only, so I can't
switch to another platform.

Well if it doesn't work out Amazon is just a few clicks away and I can be
back in Windows by a tomorrow morning delivery. But in the meantime I still
have 4 Amazon tablets, 2 Chromebooks, a Chrome tablet, and 2 Android
tablets to play with. Surprisingly this Amazon Fire HD10 I'm posting with
is my favorite. Light and comfortable to hold, reasonably quick, and with
Google installed does about everything the others do.And no, no I'm not
being paid for these Amazon endorsements...

[...]

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 14:14:41 +0100, Arno Welzel <[email protected]>
wrote:

Steve Hayes, 2025-03-24 10:04:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not
completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

No, it's exactly the opposite - because "shutdown" is what people do all
the time when they want turn off their computers. For this very reason >Windows does only hibernate by default - which means it stores the
current RAM content on the SSD so the last state including all open >applications will be restored when turning on the computer the next time.

Why is there then a different option for "hibernate"?

I often shut down my computer and it *never* restores the apps I was
using when it shut down.

I believed (perhaps wrongly) that in shutting it down, data held in
RAM while it was being worked on would be "flushed" to disk, and so
not lost, and that all open files would be closed, again so that FATs
or their equivalent could find all the bits when asked to reopen them.

However when a user does *restart* Windows, then he does that to make
sure, the system is in a defined state - and for this reasons Windows
will *not* hibernate and restore the current state when it is restarted.

But it doesn't restore the pre-shut down state when it is shut down
and restarted.

It does when it is put to sleep or huiberated, but not when it is shut
down.

The difference between shut down and restart is that shut down
switches off the power, so that everything in RAM is gone. In Restart
the power isn't switched off, the OS is just reloaded, so stuff that
was in RAM may still be there.






--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Steve Hayes, 2025-03-27 07:41:

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 14:14:41 +0100, Arno Welzel <[email protected]>
wrote:

Steve Hayes, 2025-03-24 10:04:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not
completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

No, it's exactly the opposite - because "shutdown" is what people do all
the time when they want turn off their computers. For this very reason
Windows does only hibernate by default - which means it stores the
current RAM content on the SSD so the last state including all open
applications will be restored when turning on the computer the next time.

Why is there then a different option for "hibernate"?

I don't know - I don't have "hibernate" here (Window 11 Pro).



--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Frank Slootweg, 2025-03-26 16:25:

Arno Welzel <[email protected]> wrote:

Steve Hayes, 2025-03-24 10:04:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not
completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

No, it's exactly the opposite - because "shutdown" is what people do all
the time when they want turn off their computers. For this very reason
Windows does only hibernate by default - which means it stores the
current RAM content on the SSD so the last state including all open
applications will be restored when turning on the computer the next time.

Sorry, but that's not correct. If you do a 'Shut down' the system will
only save the OS to 'disk', not the open applications. And it will only
save to 'disk' if Fast Startup is enabled (which is the default).

Nitpicking...

N.B. If your comment was correct, there would be no 'Hibernate' choice
in the 'Power' menu.

My Windows 11 setup does *not* have "hibernate" in the power menu. So
you are wrong as well now? Or did you just forgot, that the choices also
depend on settings?

I talked about the *default* setup of Windows nowadays which is "Fast
Startup". And in this *default* case Windows behaves as described since
the previous poster believed, that "shutdown" will always shutdown
without hibernation and "reboot" will restore the state as it was before
the reboot.

For an authorative reference:

Message-ID: <vhquac$1bqtd$[email protected]> <http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cvhquac%241bqtd%241%40dont-email.me%3E>

This is not "authoritative". Only the document of Microsoft is
authoritative:

<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/weg/delivering-a-great-startup-and-shutdown-experience>


--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Arno Welzel wrote:

Steve Hayes wrote:

Why is there then a different option for "hibernate"?

I don't know - I don't have "hibernate" here (Window 11 Pro).

You can enable it under
Control Panel > Power Options > Choose What Power Buttons Do

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:

Arno Welzel wrote:

Steve Hayes wrote:

Why is there then a different option for "hibernate"?

I don't know - I don't have "hibernate" here (Window 11 Pro).

You can enable it under
Control Panel > Power Options > Choose What Power Buttons Do

I think Steve was referring to the 'Hibernate' choice in the 'Power'
menu (power-button icon) in the 'Start' menu. I.e. something you click
on. (At least that's what I was referring to.)

What you are referring to is what the *physical* power button (or key)
does.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Arno Welzel <[email protected]> wrote:

Frank Slootweg, 2025-03-26 16:25:

Arno Welzel <[email protected]> wrote:

Steve Hayes, 2025-03-24 10:04:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not >>>> completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

No, it's exactly the opposite - because "shutdown" is what people do all >> the time when they want turn off their computers. For this very reason
Windows does only hibernate by default - which means it stores the
current RAM content on the SSD so the last state including all open
applications will be restored when turning on the computer the next time.

Sorry, but that's not correct. If you do a 'Shut down' the system will only save the OS to 'disk', not the open applications. And it will only save to 'disk' if Fast Startup is enabled (which is the default).

Nitpicking...

Anything but nitpicking! Windows does *not* do a full hibernate/resume
when you do a Shut down, that's what the Hibernate choice is for.

N.B. If your comment was correct, there would be no 'Hibernate' choice
in the 'Power' menu.

My Windows 11 setup does *not* have "hibernate" in the power menu. So
you are wrong as well now? Or did you just forgot, that the choices also depend on settings?

So you changed the default. Noted.

I talked about the *default* setup of Windows nowadays which is "Fast Startup". And in this *default* case Windows behaves as described since
the previous poster believed, that "shutdown" will always shutdown
without hibernation and "reboot" will restore the state as it was before
the reboot.

I don't think that's what Steve Hayes meant. Anyway, I just corrected
your incorrect information ("so the last state including all open
applications will be restored when turning on the computer the next
time.").

For an authorative reference:

Message-ID: <vhquac$1bqtd$[email protected]> <http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cvhquac%241bqtd%241%40dont-email.me%3E>

This is not "authoritative".

Well it's much more authoritative than yours. Note the poster.

Only the document of Microsoft is
authoritative:

<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/test/weg/delivering-a-great-startup-and-shutdown-experience>

A bit long, but the 'Fast startup' section is not too long and
confirms my correction of your earlier post:

"Fast startup begins with the shutdown process and includes writing data
to disk similar to the hibernate process. A key difference is that all
user sessions (Session 1) are logged off and the remaining information
is written to the hiberfile."

So the user sessions are logged off, so they *cannot* "be restored
when turning on the computer the next time".

Note also that the text in the "SHUTDOWN" picture only says "System
data ... saved to disk", while a similar picture in the later "Hibernate
phase" picture says "User & system state ... saved to disk", so a (Fast startup) shutdown does not save user state, which is my point.

(AFAIC,) EOD.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/27/2025 5:39 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:

My Windows 11 setup does *not* have "hibernate" in the power menu. So
you are wrong as well now? Or did you just forgot, that the choices also depend on settings?

I talked about the *default* setup of Windows nowadays which is "Fast Startup". And in this *default* case Windows behaves as described since
the previous poster believed, that "shutdown" will always shutdown
without hibernation and "reboot" will restore the state as it was before
the reboot.

This is getting to be one of those threads that becomes
clear as mud the longer it goes on. Some basic facts:

Fast startup is a version of Hibernate and uses the same
hiberfil.sys file. There are various reasons not to enable it -

* There are risks when using disk imaging.

* Updates might not install properly.

* Multibooting can be a problem, with a risk of file corruption.

* Windows will lock the disk, blocking access from other OSs.

* BIOS may not be accessible, depending on hardware.

* For anyone with an SSD, fast startup will have little if any
benefit in terms of speed.

* Fast startup could cause corruption if you unplug your
computer.

* Depending on hardware, there could be problems like
unrecognized hardware, unseen USB sticks when plugged
in, etc.

If you're impatient by nature, don't dual-boot, have a newer
computer, don't use disk imaging and have an HDD, fast startup
may be a nice convenience. Otherwise, it's probably not worth
the risks. By disabling Hibernate one can prevent that whole
process, eliminate the bloat of hiberfil.sys, and use Sleep when
wanting to put the computer in some kind of standby mode.

For me, with a moderately powered Win10 on an SSD, and a
modest (by current standards) i5-12400, cold boot takes maybe
30 seconds tops. (I use a BIOS password and multi-boot menu,
so I'm never just starting Windows.) Waking from Sleep is
pretty much instant, though I also have to hit the spacebar and
Enter in order to get past login. (I haven't found any method to
tell Windows that I don't want to log in. Windows NT is simply
not designed for single-user operation.)

In the case of Android, I'm still not clear about how many
Android or Apple cellphones can be fully turned off. I know that my
TCL TracFone can be easily powered off by holding down the power
button to get the shutdown menu. I know that the woman I live
with has a newer phone that can be fully powered off but requires
more work to do so.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Frank Slootweg wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

You can enable it under
Control Panel > Power Options > Choose What Power Buttons Do

I think Steve was referring to the 'Hibernate' choice in the 'Power'
menu (power-button icon) in the 'Start' menu. I.e. something you click
on. (At least that's what I was referring to.)

What you are referring to is what the *physical* power button (or key) does.

There's an option where I described to "show Hibernate in Power Menu"
(along with the physical button settings you mention).

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:

Frank Slootweg wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

You can enable it under
Control Panel > Power Options > Choose What Power Buttons Do

I think Steve was referring to the 'Hibernate' choice in the 'Power' menu (power-button icon) in the 'Start' menu. I.e. something you click
on. (At least that's what I was referring to.)

What you are referring to is what the *physical* power button (or key) does.

There's an option where I described to "show Hibernate in Power Menu"
(along with the physical button settings you mention).

Ah! Thanks! Forget about that one. I haven't changed that, but have
unticked 'Turn on fast start-up', so I could (should? :-)) have known
the Hibernate 'Show in Power menu' setting in the same list.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Newyana2 <[email protected]> wrote:
[...]

For me, with a moderately powered Win10 on an SSD, and a
modest (by current standards) i5-12400, cold boot takes maybe
30 seconds tops. (I use a BIOS password and multi-boot menu,
so I'm never just starting Windows.) Waking from Sleep is
pretty much instant, though I also have to hit the spacebar and
Enter in order to get past login. (I haven't found any method to
tell Windows that I don't want to log in. Windows NT is simply
not designed for single-user operation.)

For the latter, no need to login after resume from sleep, I think you
have to set the lock screen timeout to never.

For Windows 11, it would be:

Settings -> Accounts -> Account settings -> Sign-in options ->
Additional settings -> If you've been away, when should Windows require
you to sign-in again? -> Never

N.B. IMO, this is actaully not a new sign-in, because you were already
signed in and have not signed out, but an *unlock* of the *lock screen*. However for some strange reason this isn't a lock screen setting, but a
sign-in setting. Go figure!

Please let me/us knows if this works for you. I have - temporarily -
used it before, but can't remember for which purpose that was.

[...]

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-03-27 06:41, Steve Hayes wrote:

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 14:14:41 +0100, Arno Welzel <[email protected]>
wrote:

Steve Hayes, 2025-03-24 10:04:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not
completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

No, it's exactly the opposite - because "shutdown" is what people do all
the time when they want turn off their computers. For this very reason
Windows does only hibernate by default - which means it stores the
current RAM content on the SSD so the last state including all open
applications will be restored when turning on the computer the next time.

Why is there then a different option for "hibernate"?

I often shut down my computer and it *never* restores the apps I was
using when it shut down.

I believed (perhaps wrongly) that in shutting it down, data held in
RAM while it was being worked on would be "flushed" to disk, and so
not lost, and that all open files would be closed, again so that FATs
or their equivalent could find all the bits when asked to reopen them.

However when a user does *restart* Windows, then he does that to make
sure, the system is in a defined state - and for this reasons Windows
will *not* hibernate and restore the current state when it is restarted.

But it doesn't restore the pre-shut down state when it is shut down
and restarted.

It does when it is put to sleep or huiberated, but not when it is shut
down.

The difference between shut down and restart is that shut down
switches off the power, so that everything in RAM is gone. In Restart
the power isn't switched off, the OS is just reloaded, so stuff that
was in RAM may still be there.

NO! This has been explained already elsewhere in the thread in multiple different ways:

'Hibernate' saves the current user and OS states, so that by default
they will be restored when the PC is next powered on. When the PC is
next powered on, all the user's running programs will be restored.

'Shutdown' in Windows versions >= 8 with 'Turn on fast start-up' enabled
saves a state of the OS equivalent to being fully booted but no user yet
logged on, so, unlike 'Hibernate', no user state is saved.

'Shutdown' in Windows versions >= 8 with 'Turn on fast start-up'
disabled, or in versions <= 7, saves nothing, so a full boot of the PC
will occur on every power up, unless on the previous shutdown the PC had
been hibernated.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 19:06:40 +0000, Java Jive <[email protected]d>
wrote:

On 2025-03-27 06:41, Steve Hayes wrote:

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 14:14:41 +0100, Arno Welzel <[email protected]>
wrote:

Steve Hayes, 2025-03-24 10:04:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not >>>>> completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

No, it's exactly the opposite - because "shutdown" is what people do all >>> the time when they want turn off their computers. For this very reason
Windows does only hibernate by default - which means it stores the
current RAM content on the SSD so the last state including all open
applications will be restored when turning on the computer the next time. >>

Why is there then a different option for "hibernate"?

I often shut down my computer and it *never* restores the apps I was
using when it shut down.

I believed (perhaps wrongly) that in shutting it down, data held in
RAM while it was being worked on would be "flushed" to disk, and so
not lost, and that all open files would be closed, again so that FATs
or their equivalent could find all the bits when asked to reopen them.

However when a user does *restart* Windows, then he does that to make
sure, the system is in a defined state - and for this reasons Windows
will *not* hibernate and restore the current state when it is restarted.

But it doesn't restore the pre-shut down state when it is shut down
and restarted.

It does when it is put to sleep or huiberated, but not when it is shut
down.

The difference between shut down and restart is that shut down
switches off the power, so that everything in RAM is gone. In Restart
the power isn't switched off, the OS is just reloaded, so stuff that
was in RAM may still be there.

NO! This has been explained already elsewhere in the thread in multiple >different ways:

'Hibernate' saves the current user and OS states, so that by default
they will be restored when the PC is next powered on. When the PC is
next powered on, all the user's running programs will be restored.

That's what I thought, and that's what my computer does.

'Shutdown' in Windows versions >= 8 with 'Turn on fast start-up' enabled >saves a state of the OS equivalent to being fully booted but no user yet >logged on, so, unlike 'Hibernate', no user state is saved.

'Shutdown' in Windows versions >= 8 with 'Turn on fast start-up'
disabled, or in versions <= 7, saves nothing, so a full boot of the PC
will occur on every power up, unless on the previous shutdown the PC had
been hibernated.

That again is what I thought. I'd better check to make sure that Fast
Startup is disabled.



--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-03-27 21:47, Steve Hayes wrote:

On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 19:06:40 +0000, Java Jive <[email protected]d>
wrote:

On 2025-03-27 06:41, Steve Hayes wrote:

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 14:14:41 +0100, Arno Welzel <[email protected]>
wrote:

Steve Hayes, 2025-03-24 10:04:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not >>>>>> completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

No, it's exactly the opposite - because "shutdown" is what people do all >>>> the time when they want turn off their computers. For this very reason >>>> Windows does only hibernate by default - which means it stores the
current RAM content on the SSD so the last state including all open
applications will be restored when turning on the computer the next time. >>>

Why is there then a different option for "hibernate"?

I often shut down my computer and it *never* restores the apps I was
using when it shut down.

I believed (perhaps wrongly) that in shutting it down, data held in
RAM while it was being worked on would be "flushed" to disk, and so
not lost, and that all open files would be closed, again so that FATs
or their equivalent could find all the bits when asked to reopen them.

However when a user does *restart* Windows, then he does that to make
sure, the system is in a defined state - and for this reasons Windows
will *not* hibernate and restore the current state when it is restarted. >>>

But it doesn't restore the pre-shut down state when it is shut down
and restarted.

It does when it is put to sleep or huiberated, but not when it is shut
down.

The difference between shut down and restart is that shut down
switches off the power, so that everything in RAM is gone. In Restart
the power isn't switched off, the OS is just reloaded, so stuff that
was in RAM may still be there.

NO! This has been explained already elsewhere in the thread in multiple
different ways:

'Hibernate' saves the current user and OS states, so that by default
they will be restored when the PC is next powered on. When the PC is
next powered on, all the user's running programs will be restored.

That's what I thought, and that's what my computer does.

'Shutdown' in Windows versions >= 8 with 'Turn on fast start-up' enabled
saves a state of the OS equivalent to being fully booted but no user yet
logged on, so, unlike 'Hibernate', no user state is saved.

'Shutdown' in Windows versions >= 8 with 'Turn on fast start-up'
disabled, or in versions <= 7, saves nothing, so a full boot of the PC
will occur on every power up, unless on the previous shutdown the PC had
been hibernated.

That again is what I thought.

Maybe, but it's not what you wrote.

I'd better check to make sure that Fast
Startup is disabled.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 26 Mar 2025 17:46:45 -0000 (UTC), AJL <[email protected]> wrote:

On 3/26/25 8:25 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <[email protected]> wrote:

Steve Hayes, 2025-03-24 10:04:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not >>> >> completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

No, it's exactly the opposite - because "shutdown" is what people do all >>> the time when they want turn off their computers. For this very reason
Windows does only hibernate by default - which means it stores the
current RAM content on the SSD so the last state including all open
applications will be restored when turning on the computer the next time.

Sorry, but that's not correct. If you do a 'Shut down' the system will
only save the OS to 'disk', not the open applications.

I always thought the Windows OS was permanently on the 'disk' and thus
didn't need to be resaved at each shutdown.

I think it was something about the "kernel" that got retained when using shutdown, and that changes that were made to it got erased when using
Restart.

Seems to me you could restart, in order to reset the kernel, and then
shutdown in order to turn the machine off.


--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:38:13 -0000 (UTC), AJL <[email protected]> wrote:

For the first time in decades (IIRC I started at DOS 5) I'm going Windows >>> free. I gave away my last LT to a greatgrandkid and will now live on
Android and Chrome OS. (Also Fire OS but that's really Android.) So it's >>> now fast start for me for the duration. Whoopee... 8-O

Lucky you! Too much of my need/want stuff is Windows-only, so I can't >>switch to another platform.

Well if it doesn't work out Amazon is just a few clicks away and I can be
back in Windows by a tomorrow morning delivery. But in the meantime I still have 4 Amazon tablets, 2 Chromebooks, a Chrome tablet, and 2 Android
tablets to play with. Surprisingly this Amazon Fire HD10 I'm posting with

What do these things use for a keyboard.

A virtual on-screen keyboard? A mini-keyboard? I really only like a fullsize, typewriter size keyboard, because my fingers know where to go,
so if I can't have that, I'm probably not going to use those things.

is my favorite. Light and comfortable to hold, reasonably quick, and with Google installed does about everything the others do.And no, no I'm not
being paid for these Amazon endorsements...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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In comp.mobile.android, on Thu, 27 Mar 2025 19:06:40 +0000, Java Jive <[email protected]d> wrote:

NO! This has been explained already elsewhere in the thread in multiple >different ways:

'Hibernate' saves the current user and OS states, so that by default
they will be restored when the PC is next powered on. When the PC is
next powered on, all the user's running programs will be restored.

'Shutdown' in Windows versions >= 8 with 'Turn on fast start-up' enabled >saves a state of the OS equivalent to being fully booted but no user yet >logged on, so, unlike 'Hibernate', no user state is saved.

'Shutdown' in Windows versions >= 8 with 'Turn on fast start-up'
disabled, or in versions <= 7, saves nothing, so a full boot of the PC
will occur on every power up, unless on the previous shutdown the PC had
been hibernated.

Also worth mentioning that there is fast boot in the BIOS and fast boot
in Windows and they are two separate things, and don't affect the same
things. WE've been talking about fast boot in Windows.

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In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 26 Mar 2025 14:19:10 +0100, Arno Welzel <[email protected]> wrote:

J�rg Lorenz, 2025-03-24 16:11:

On 22.03.25 17:16, micky wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not
completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Yes, I should not have said "does not completely shut down" I meant
does not completely forget changes made to the system by things the user
did, or somethign like that.

Is that true in Android too?

No. If an Android device is powered down all processes of Android end.

In Windows too. A Windows computer will completely stop doing anything
when it is shut down.

But the point is: there is no snapshot of the RAM in Android, so when
Android is powered on again, it will start from the beginning without
any previously running apps or services while Windows will restore the
state as it was before it was shut down.

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micky wrote:

AJL wrote:

I still have 4 Amazon tablets, 2 Chromebooks, a Chrome tablet, and
2 Android tablets to play with. Surprisingly this Amazon Fire HD10
I'm posting with

What do these things use for a keyboard.

A virtual on-screen keyboard? A mini-keyboard? I really only like a fullsize, typewriter size keyboard

Chromebooks have a laptop style keyboard, tablets usually have no
physical keyboard, just a virtual on-screen one, but they will generally
accept a USB keyboard plugged into an OTG port.

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In comp.mobile.android, on Thu, 3 Apr 2025 09:49:22 +0100, Andy Burns <[email protected]> wrote:

micky wrote:

AJL wrote:

I still have 4 Amazon tablets, 2 Chromebooks, a Chrome tablet, and
2 Android tablets to play with. Surprisingly this Amazon Fire HD10
I'm posting with

What do these things use for a keyboard.

A virtual on-screen keyboard? A mini-keyboard? I really only like a
fullsize, typewriter size keyboard

Chromebooks have a laptop style keyboard, tablets usually have no
physical keyboard, just a virtual on-screen one, but they will generally >accept a USB keyboard plugged into an OTG port.

The last one is a possibility. Thanks.

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On 4/3/25 12:42 AM, micky wrote:

In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 26 Mar 2025 17:46:45 -0000 (UTC), AJL ><[email protected]> wrote:

On 3/26/25 8:25 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <[email protected]> wrote:

Steve Hayes, 2025-03-24 10:04:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:16:17 -0400, micky <[email protected]>
wrote:

Learned recently that in later versions of windows, Shutdown does not >>>> >> completely shut down windows but Restart does.

Is that true in Android too?

In Windows, I'm pretty sure it is the other way round.

Restart doesn't completely shut down Windows, but shutdown does.

No, it's exactly the opposite - because "shutdown" is what people do all >>>> the time when they want turn off their computers. For this very reason >>>> Windows does only hibernate by default - which means it stores the
current RAM content on the SSD so the last state including all open
applications will be restored when turning on the computer the next time. >>

Sorry, but that's not correct. If you do a 'Shut down' the system will >>>only save the OS to 'disk', not the open applications.

I always thought the Windows OS was permanently on the 'disk' and thus
didn't need to be resaved at each shutdown.

I think it was something about the "kernel" that got retained when using >shutdown, and that changes that were made to it got erased when using >Restart.

Seems to me you could restart, in order to reset the kernel, and then >shutdown in order to turn the machine off.

Not a problem for me anymore. I quit Windows for life. I've been assimilated
byGoogle, Amazon, and Android stuff... 8-O

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On 4/3/25 12:36 AM, micky wrote:

In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:38:13 -0000 (UTC), AJL ><[email protected]> wrote:

For the first time in decades (IIRC I started at DOS 5) I'm going Windows >>>> free. I gave away my last LT to a greatgrandkid and will now live on
Android and Chrome OS. (Also Fire OS but that's really Android.) So it's >>>> now fast start for me for the duration. Whoopee... 8-O

Lucky you! Too much of my need/want stuff is Windows-only, so I can't >>>switch to another platform.

Well if it doesn't work out Amazon is just a few clicks away and I can be
back in Windows by a tomorrow morning delivery. But in the meantime I still >> have 4 Amazon tablets, 2 Chromebooks, a Chrome tablet, and 2 Android
tablets to play with. Surprisingly this Amazon Fire HD10 I'm posting with

What do these things use for a keyboard.

A virtual on-screen keyboard? A mini-keyboard? I really only like a >fullsize, typewriter size keyboard, because my fingers know where to go,
so if I can't have that, I'm probably not going to use those things.

An on screen keyboard. Size depends on the device size and design. I'm now
posting with an Amazon 10" tablet and the KB is about 2x5 inches.

is my favorite. Light and comfortable to hold, reasonably quick, and with
Google installed does about everything the others do.And no, no I'm not
being paid for these Amazon endorsements...

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In comp.mobile.android, on Thu, 3 Apr 2025 14:45:30 -0000 (UTC), AJL <[email protected]> wrote:

A virtual on-screen keyboard? A mini-keyboard? I really only like a >>fullsize, typewriter size keyboard, because my fingers know where to go,
so if I can't have that, I'm probably not going to use those things.

An on screen keyboard. Size depends on the device size and design. I'm now
posting with an Amazon 10" tablet and the KB is about 2x5 inches.

My fingers are not that delicate. I did buy at a hamfest a used mini
bluetooth keyboard, maybe that size, that works, for emergencies and
because it was cheap. Used it to see if it works, but nothing else.

Another First-World problem.

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micky wrote:

AJL wrote:

An on screen keyboard. Size depends on the device size and design. I'm now >> posting with an Amazon 10" tablet and the KB is about 2x5 inches.

My fingers are not that delicate.

Have you tried a "swipe" keyboard?

You just touch the screen and "swoosh" your finger in turn over all the
letters in the word you want, it's pretty good at guessing based on
context what you mean ... much quicker than hunt and peck.

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