Just a heads-up to those concerned about such things ...

My phone (Pixel8a Android15) and tablet (Huawei MediaPad Android9)
overnight enabled high accuracy location, leaving a notification
on-screen that this had been done.

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On 16/10/2024 08:52, Andy Burns wrote:

Just a heads-up to those concerned about such things ...

My phone (Pixel8a Android15) and tablet (Huawei MediaPad Android9)
overnight enabled high accuracy location, leaving a notification
on-screen that this had been done.

I didn't get an update for Android 14 for my Xiaomi Redmi Note 10 when
that became available, so I can't see 15 appearing. That's no problem as
I have any location service turned off (well, all those I'm aware of...).

--
Jeff

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Jeff Layman wrote on Wed, 16 Oct 2024 10:26:53 +0100 :

On 16/10/2024 08:52, Andy Burns wrote:

Just a heads-up to those concerned about such things ...

My phone (Pixel8a Android15) and tablet (Huawei MediaPad Android9)
overnight enabled high accuracy location, leaving a notification
on-screen that this had been done.

I didn't get an update for Android 14 for my Xiaomi Redmi Note 10 when
that became available, so I can't see 15 appearing. That's no problem as
I have any location service turned off (well, all those I'm aware of...).

I have an older thread on XDA about Google changing their GSF libraries to *require* "precise location accuracy" (which is another name for spyware).
<https://xdaforums.com/t/privacy-do-you-know-a-way-to-permanently-disable-google-location-accuracy-precise-location-wi-fi-scanning-while-keeping-only-the-gps-radio-on.4543135/>

What I did at that time was create a one-tap shortcut to turn it back off
after using any navigation app that incorporated Google GSF libraries.
<https://xdaforums.com/t/tutorial-illustrated-mostly-privacy-based-one-tap-shortcuts-so-that-you-can-access-in-a-single-tap-any-buried-android-setting-or-app-activity.4625951/>

If I recall correctly, we discussed a while ago that Google planned on
making "precise location services" the default, which Andy just proved.

Luckily, everything I do on a computer is done in one click if I can make
it do that - which - of course - takes knowledge of the operating system.

For example, around they late summer Google made it the default to turn on "precise location accuracy" in Google Maps, which, Google (in their
infinite need to spy on us) has made a few levels deep to turn off - where
even when you turn it off - every time you use any navigation app with
Google's GSF spyware in it (which is most nav apps, by the way), then GSF annoyingly repetitively constantly turns the Google spyware back on...

So...

I make a one-click shortcut to the settings to turn it off.
<https://xdaforums.com/t/tutorial-illustrated-mostly-privacy-based-one-tap-shortcuts-so-that-you-can-access-in-a-single-tap-any-buried-android-setting-or-app-activity.4625951/>

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[Possible Duplicate Message]

Andrews wrote:

If I recall correctly, we discussed a while ago that Google planned on
making "precise location services" the default, which Andy just proved.

I suspect the timing of this is due to Android15 enabling additional use
of Google's find my device network, e.g. detecting the phone being
snatched from your hand and then running/riding off with it, so it can disable/track it.

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On 17/10/2024 07:53, Andy Burns wrote:

[Possible Duplicate Message]

Andrews wrote:

If I recall correctly, we discussed a while ago that Google planned on
making "precise location services" the default, which Andy just proved.

I suspect the timing of this is due to Android15 enabling additional use
of Google's find my device network, e.g. detecting the phone being
snatched from your hand and then running/riding off with it, so it can disable/track it.

The notification for the precise location update just came through. I
had a look in my settings and the Location setting notes that "Device
location is off" for apps and services.

But Is it? Underneath the notice it lists four apps/services which are
"Allowed all the time" - Companion Device Manager, Find device, Fused
location, and Shell (there are a further dozen or so apps for which
location is allowed, but only when the app is in use). If I look at any
of those four, the settings are all greyed out, but all have "Allow all
the time" set. So are they off as they're greyed out? Well, I really
don't know as towards the bottom there is a greyed out "Use precise
location" on/off selector, and below that "Device requires this
permission to operate". Is that just a warning that I need to turn
location back on to get it to operate, or just telling me that no matter
what I want, it's turned on anyway?

I just turned Location on for a few seconds to see what the phone might
show me, but I couldn't see anything obvious. I then turned it back off
again, and very oddly those four apps I listed above now no longer
showed - under "Allowed" it now shows "No apps allowed"!

When this phone dies, for its replacement it'll be LineageOS,
GrapheneOS, or hopefully a Pine phone if they get it working reliably.

--
Jeff

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On 10/19/2024 8:14 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:

The notification for the precise location update just came through. I
had a look in my settings and the Location setting notes that "Device location is off" for apps and services.

But Is it?

I think that with Google you have to assume that if they can spy,
they will. And they will lie about it. It's what they do. They didn't make Android out of sheer generosity. It's part of their "all spying, all the
time"
business model.

Cellphones these days are semi-kiosk devices, not intended to be
controlled. I installed a program to give me more control. I've forgotten
the name now. (Netguard, maybe?) The list of formerly invisible Android processes that it showed me was endless, but most of them have
meaningless names. Only an Android developer could make sense of it.

You should assume that if your phone is powered on then you're
wearing a tracking collar. Whether it's phone towers or satellite GPS,
they're tracking your movements. If using a cellphone is part of your
lifestyle (you leave it powered on, send and receive text messages, etc)
then you're the same as the wild animals with radio collars that biologists track. You can't have cellphone lifestyle and privacy.

Do you remember the "wifi slurping" scandal several years back?
Google was picking up and storing any tidbits they could get from
unencrypted wifi as their streetview vans drove around. Most wifi
back then was unencrypted. Google heartily denied it, until the specific software was found that they wrote to do the job! If I remember correctly,
I think the software developer came forward.

It seems odd that Google would bother to collect random tidbits
from specific houses, but the magic of surveillance is in the data
crunching. Every tiny bit of data they can get just adds to the
data they can analyze.

Baldfaced lying is routine with tech companies. They
don't face any real punishment for lying, stealing and spying. Apple
are no better than Google. They've been caught spying multiple times.
Some years ago there was a California journalist who found precise
location data going back several weeks, stored in a plain text
file on his iPhone. He used the data to create a map, to show how
easy it is to track a person's life. Apple also lies about the iPhone
privacy settings:

https://gizmodo.com/apple-iphone-analytics-tracking-even-when-off-app-store-1849757558

The only difference is that most people using iPhones believe that
Apple is a special angel created by Lord Jobs and they actually want
to be tracked by their phone. It makes them feel safe.

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Hi Andy,

You know phones better'n I do, and yet I'm no slouch either, where I have
on Android 13, a one-tap shortcut to the Precise Location Accuracy settings
so that I can turn that off whenever Google Maps turns that switch on.

What's different in Android 15?

If the only difference is that the first time you boot Android 15, Google Location Accuracy is turned on, then what's the problem of turning it off?

Does it keep getting turned on in Android 15?
If so, what is the "event" that turns it on in Android 15?

In Android 13, the only "events" I know of are when routing (or network debugging) tools ask to turn it on in order to use the app.

In those cases I turn it on for the duration that I need that app, where I
also add GPS spoofing prior to turning Google Location Accuracy on.

Unfortunately, I can't spoof wifi location, so it confuses the hell out of
an app who sees nearby wifi BSSIDs that it knows are nowhere near where my
GPS radio is spoofed to.

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Newyana2 wrote on Sat, 19 Oct 2024 09:20:37 -0400 :

I think that with Google you have to assume that if they can spy,
they will. And they will lie about it. It's what they do. They didn't make Android out of sheer generosity. It's part of their "all spying, all the time" business model.

Google definitely is lying when they say 'Precise Location Accuracy' is required for decent routing - as they have an ulterior motive - which is to make sure every Android phone feeds THEM location data that they can sell.

Cellphones these days are semi-kiosk devices, not intended to be controlled. I installed a program to give me more control. I've forgotten
the name now. (Netguard, maybe?) The list of formerly invisible Android processes that it showed me was endless, but most of them have
meaningless names. Only an Android developer could make sense of it.

I exercise what I consider FULL CONTROL over Google's "Precise Location Accuracy" where I have a homescreen shortcut which I use to turn it off.

You should assume that if your phone is powered on then you're
wearing a tracking collar. Whether it's phone towers or satellite GPS, they're tracking your movements. If using a cellphone is part of your lifestyle (you leave it powered on, send and receive text messages, etc)
then you're the same as the wild animals with radio collars that biologists track. You can't have cellphone lifestyle and privacy.

I agree that the cellular part of the phone is basically a full-time
tracking collar, but I keep all the other radios off when not in use.

Do you remember the "wifi slurping" scandal several years back?
Google was picking up and storing any tidbits they could get from
unencrypted wifi as their streetview vans drove around. Most wifi
back then was unencrypted. Google heartily denied it, until the specific software was found that they wrote to do the job! If I remember correctly,
I think the software developer came forward.

Even today, you have to know to opt out of Google "slurping" up your unique BSSID tied to your unique GPS location - which Google hands out for free to anyone who asks (Apple is far worse than Google on doing this, by the way).
<https://www.theregister.com/2024/05/23/apple_wifi_positioning_system/>

Apple uses your home wi-fi router essentially as Apple's own AirTag.
<https://krebsonsecurity.com/2024/05/why-your-wi-fi-router-doubles-as-an-apple-airtag/>

It seems odd that Google would bother to collect random tidbits
from specific houses, but the magic of surveillance is in the data
crunching. Every tiny bit of data they can get just adds to the
data they can analyze.

What Google gathers from 9,999 out of 10,000 Android phones is every single unique BSSID & unique GPS location of every Wi-Fi router that phone sees.

Mine is the only one out of those 10,000 phones which doesn't allow that.

Likewise, in the reverse order, Google gathers from 9,999 out of 10,000
home routers that same unique BSSID & unique GPS location of your home.

Again, my home is the only one out of those 10,000 homes which doesn't.

Baldfaced lying is routine with tech companies. They
don't face any real punishment for lying, stealing and spying. Apple
are no better than Google. They've been caught spying multiple times.

Apple inserts your userid into every app you download which, let's fact it,
no other company stoops that low to track every user's use of every IPA!

Some years ago there was a California journalist who found precise
location data going back several weeks, stored in a plain text
file on his iPhone. He used the data to create a map, to show how
easy it is to track a person's life. Apple also lies about the iPhone
privacy settings: https://gizmodo.com/apple-iphone-analytics-tracking-even-when-off-app-store-1849757558

You have to remember that 9,999 of 10,000 iPhones log into Apple servers, whereas only one out of 10,000 does not log into Apple servers every day.

Mine.

The only difference is that most people using iPhones believe that
Apple is a special angel created by Lord Jobs and they actually want
to be tracked by their phone. It makes them feel safe.

Apple owners are blissfully unaware that Apple requires them to log into Cupertino mainframe servers just to use messages, facetime, the app store, etc., which allows Apple to literally track almost everything that they do.

Unfortunately, on Android it's not much different where 9,999 out of 10,000 Android users log into Google's mainframe servers on Android the moment
they boot it up too - the difference being the Android users aren't aware
that they can get everything they need on Android WITHOUT having a Google account set up in the phone's operating system.

Take a guess which is the 1 out of 10,000 Android phones which does not
have a Google account set up (and I can do anything anyone else can do).

:)

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Andrews wrote:

If the only difference is that the first time you boot Android 15, Google Location Accuracy is turned on, then what's the problem of turning it off?

Does it keep getting turned on in Android 15?

I don't know which app(s) precise location got turned on for, I don't
think it can be changed globally?

I haven't noticed it turning itself back on

If so, what is the "event" that turns it on in Android 15?

I don't think it's related to upgrading to Android 15 (my ancient tablet
did the same as my newish phone) but I think Google pushed out the
setting on the same day it came out of preview

In Android 13, the only "events" I know of are when routing (or network debugging) tools ask to turn it on in order to use the app.

I only have two apps allowed to use precise location while using those
apps (Google Maps and Google Auto). Most others have approximate access
only, or have too ask everytime (or they're just blocked). Some system components can't be configured.

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On 10/26/2024 1:34 AM, Andrews wrote:

What Google gathers from 9,999 out of 10,000 Android phones is every single unique BSSID & unique GPS location of every Wi-Fi router that phone sees.

Mine is the only one out of those 10,000 phones which doesn't allow that.

How does that work? I looked at the articles you linked. I seem
to also remember that there was an ISP in the news using routers
as public access points without asking. But I don't understand the
technical details here. The BSSID is coming from the router? Can
it be changed? We have all Windows computer, all attached directly
to ethernet. But the wifi is on for cellphone use.

Apple inserts your userid into every app you download which, let's fact it, no other company stoops that low to track every user's use of every IPA!

Well, as I recall Adobe was putting codes into Photoshop files
to track down people using PS illegally. And MS Word puts personal
data into DOC files without asking. Didn't Apple also tag music files purchased, back when that was a thing?

The trouble is that spying and service can get conflated. Especially
with Apple. The Apple disciples generally consider it a wonderful service
for Apple to copy their entire cellphone to their "cloud". Spying or free backup? Depends on who you ask.

Take a guess which is the 1 out of 10,000 Android phones which does not
have a Google account set up (and I can do anything anyone else can do).

I never set up a Google account on my Tracfone, though I barely
use it, anyway. I keep it in the glove compartment, turned off, in
case I need to make a call away from home. The whole cellphone
lifestyle is too sleazy for my taste. Surveillance is built in.... And
I also don't want people to be able to text me at any time, no
matter where I am. I wouldn't even know how to write a text. If
it's important they can leave a message on my home phone.

The woman I live
with had an account and gmail set up when she bought the phone.
Once again, service or spying? For the average person a Google
account is how they get all that free stuff and apps.

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