• Re: Erratic GPS

    From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to The Real Bev on Sun Jun 23 21:21:16 2024
    The Real Bev wrote:

    Every once in a while her location will shift by as much as half a mile
    and then shift back within minutes.  Is there any possible cause for this

    Losing view of the satellites and falling back to cell tower or wifi
    location?

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  • From Ralph Fox@21:1/5 to The Real Bev on Mon Jun 24 12:24:11 2024
    On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 13:59:56 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
    On 6/23/24 1:21 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
    The Real Bev wrote:

    Every once in a while her location will shift by as much as half a mile
    and then shift back within minutes.  Is there any possible cause for this >>
    Losing view of the satellites and falling back to cell tower or wifi
    location?

    Standing still. This isn't a quiz, I really want to know.


    GPS location relies on signals from GPS satellites being direct *line
    of sight*, and comparing the timing of signals from multiple GPS
    satellites to extremely fine accuracy (a nanosecond, the time it takes
    a signal to travel one foot). It is not "Harry Potter" magic. If any
    GPS satellite signal is not line of sight, this will throw the
    calculation out.


    If your daughter is anywhere where her device could be using a GPS
    satellite signal that is reflected off a building, wall, cliff,
    or otherwise not direct line of sight, then this is not surprising.

    If your daughter is anywhere where her device does not get direct
    *line of sight* signals from at least 4 (four) GPS satellites, then
    this is also not surprising.

    If your daughter was outdoors in a wide open plain, not under a roof,
    not next to a building, cliff, or wall higher than her device, not in
    a canyon, no tall buildings, hills, or mountains nearby, then and only
    then I would guess an issue on one of the GPS satellites. Such issues
    are generally notified; see <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notice_Advisory_to_Navstar_Users>.

    GPS was originally designed for nuclear submarines in the middle of
    the ocean, where GPS signals will always be line of sight and
    at least 4 (four) GPS satellites will always be in line of sight.


    This *is* a pot-luck quiz when we do not know what kind of place your
    daughter is in.

    Although your daughter may be standing still, the GPS satellites are
    not. GPS satellites are NOT geostationary. GPS satellite signals
    do move.


    --
    Kind regards
    Ralph Fox
    🦊

    Change of place changes not mens minds or manners.

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  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to The Real Bev on Mon Jun 24 06:54:11 2024
    The Real Bev wrote:

    Andy Burns wrote:

    Losing view of the satellites and falling back to cell tower or wifi
    location?

    Standing still.

    The satellites aren't ...

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  • From Andrew@21:1/5 to Andy Burns on Mon Jun 24 06:18:01 2024
    Andy Burns wrote on Mon, 24 Jun 2024 06:54:11 +0100 :

    The Real Bev wrote:

    Andy Burns wrote:

    Losing view of the satellites and falling back to cell tower or wifi
    location?

    Standing still.

    The satellites aren't ...

    Q: When you're tracking someone else, does "snapping to objects" apply?
    A: ???

    I use GPS mostly in two situations, where I think I know where "The Real
    Bev" is having difficulties so allow me to try to patiently explain.

    When "The Real Bev" is driving on a road, she is perhaps not aware that the blue location dot is "snapping" to "objects" (usually roads) on that map.

    So, while driving, even at breakneck speeds around hairpin turns (which,
    I'm sure she doesn't do - but you get the point), the blue location dot serenely follows the roads without much of a deviation off the beaten path.

    But that's due to snapping.
    Not GPS.

    Now, I hike. I'm in the Santa Cruz Mountains which are rugged (hell, a guy
    just this weekend was lost for ten days and he didn't run into a soul).
    <https://www.santacruzsentinel.com/2024/06/21/boulder-creek-man-rescued-from-remote-canyon-after-nine-day-search/>

    When hiking in rugged backcountry, with just GPS, the track I lay down
    bounces widely all over the place (just as The Real Bev is insinuating).

    (Note that with back-country hiking, Wi-Fi precision scanning wouldn't do
    much good, nor would cellular tower triangulation - given the remoteness.)

    Having explained that The Real Bev may not be aware of "snapping to
    objects", I must say I don't track other people on my own maps.

    So I ask the group at large this basic question related to her question:

    Q: When you're tracking someone else, does "snapping to objects" apply?

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_Lorenz?=@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 24 18:35:28 2024
    Am 24.06.24 um 07:54 schrieb Andy Burns:
    The Real Bev wrote:

    Andy Burns wrote:

    Losing view of the satellites and falling back to cell tower or wifi
    location?

    Standing still.

    The satellites aren't ...

    Not relevant.

    --
    "Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_Lorenz?=@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 24 18:37:43 2024
    Am 23.06.24 um 22:11 schrieb The Real Bev:
    I track my daughter the tour director on google maps. Every once in a
    while her location will shift by as much as half a mile and then shift
    back within minutes.

    A running gag with your Pixel 2?


    --
    "Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

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  • From Andrew@21:1/5 to The Real Bev on Thu Jun 27 03:15:02 2024
    The Real Bev wrote on Tue, 25 Jun 2024 08:20:29 -0700 :

    Q: When you're tracking someone else, does "snapping to objects" apply?
    A: ???

    Don't know. If it's a setting I never saw it. If it snaps that's OK
    because we're pretty much ALWAYS on major roads.

    I've been using GPS in vehicles since they were first sold to consumers,
    and in those days, the location did not snap to the roads.

    Note that those GPS apps were on the Windows PC, where the tracking did not correspond to roads.

    Hence, you often found yourself appear to be driving in a lake or on the
    side of the road or in water outside a bridge, etc., before they invented
    the snapping they do today.

    I think your problem, based on what I know and what you said, could be
    purely due to the lack of snapping in the computer app that you're using -
    but I'm just trying to help you so I'm only informing you that it's a
    distinct possibility.

    I use GPS mostly in two situations, where I think I know where "The Real
    Bev" is having difficulties so allow me to try to patiently explain.

    When "The Real Bev" is driving on a road, she is perhaps not aware that the >> blue location dot is "snapping" to "objects" (usually roads) on that map.

    So, while driving, even at breakneck speeds around hairpin turns (which,
    I'm sure she doesn't do - but you get the point), the blue location dot
    serenely follows the roads without much of a deviation off the beaten path. >>
    But that's due to snapping.
    Not GPS.

    Seems irrelevant to the problem at hand.

    It's relevant because without snapping, the GPS track bounces all over,
    which is what you're describing is happening.

    My suggestion is to check if the app you're using to track is not snapping.


    Now, I hike. I'm in the Santa Cruz Mountains which are rugged (hell, a guy >> just this weekend was lost for ten days and he didn't run into a soul).
    <https://www.santacruzsentinel.com/2024/06/21/boulder-creek-man-rescued-from-remote-canyon-after-nine-day-search/>

    If he had enough water but no food I would suspect that hyponatremia
    would have occurred. Apparently not. A former SC resident said that if
    he'd just kept walking downhill he would have come to a road.

    Technically, 3000KCal is a pound, and people burn about half that a day,
    but let's make the math simple by saying he was doing strenuou hiking so
    we'll assume he burned 3000KCal per day, which in 10 days would be 30
    pounds, which, coincidentally, is exactly how much weight they said he
    lost.

    As a side note, people who eat three square meals a day think it's required mostly because of advertising like "Breakfast is the most important meal of
    the day" (which is complete bullshit).

    If a person is 100 pounds overweight, at 3000 KCal per pound, and assuming
    a normal 1500 KCal burned per day, they could theoretically go for 200 days without eating and, other than the nutritional issues (which, I am well
    aware, are the real problem), they would not be starving to death.

    People don't realize humans (and most mammals) are designed to go long
    periods without food. But this is an aside...

    When hiking in rugged backcountry, with just GPS, the track I lay down
    bounces widely all over the place (just as The Real Bev is insinuating).

    (Note that with back-country hiking, Wi-Fi precision scanning wouldn't do
    much good, nor would cellular tower triangulation - given the remoteness.) >>
    Having explained that The Real Bev may not be aware of "snapping to
    objects", I must say I don't track other people on my own maps.

    This is a family thing.

    Oh. Don't get me wrong. I was not chastising you. I was simply remarking
    that I don't have experience with 2nd-party tracking of the 1st party.

    My point was only that the 2nd-party tracking app might not be smart enough
    to track to roads. That's all.

    So I ask the group at large this basic question related to her question:

    Q: When you're tracking someone else, does "snapping to objects" apply?

    I suspect that lack of snapping "might" be the problem The Real Bev is indicating - but it's only my best guess based on the data I have at hand.

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  • From Andrew@21:1/5 to The Real Bev on Thu Jun 27 20:36:20 2024
    The Real Bev wrote on Wed, 26 Jun 2024 22:46:31 -0700 :

    A. Although I am driving west at 80mph my dot/image is stuck in Place A
    for 20 minutes. Maybe an hour. Every once in a while my location might update and then just sits there for some time period. Wash, rinse,
    repeat. This is the problem.

    Well, that doesn't sound at all like a snapping problem, so I stand
    corrected.

    I think that a position freezing in place is either a network problem, or a data-transfer-delay problem of some sort.

    I would hate to try to debug something like that - but like everything -
    I'm sure it can be debugged - I just don't personally know how to do that.

    Maybe the others do.

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