XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-05-22 10:07, Victor wrote:

On Thu, 22 May 2025 09:48:04 -0700, Alan wrote:

'Other logins included Facebook, Google, Instagram, Microsoft, and PayPal.'

None of those are ever required just to make the device work normally.

The point is that data hacks are widespread and don't say anything in particular about any one company.

And beyond having an AppleID, you don't need to give it much personal information.

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On 2025-05-22 09:33, Marion wrote:

Since only Apple devices are designed as dumb terminals,

False.

you must have a
login to the Apple mothership - which - Apple can't protect.

False.

So everyone has your login now.

False.

Because you chose to buy a dumb terminal instead of a real computer.

Apple logins with plain text passwords found in massive database of 184M records
<https://9to5mac.com/2025/05/22/apple-logins-with-plain-text-passwords-found-in-massive-database-of-184m-records/>

'Other logins included Facebook, Google, Instagram, Microsoft, and PayPal.'

No other operating system requires a mothership account.
Just Apple.

<https://www.howtogeek.com/739837/fyi-windows-11-home-will-require-a-microsoft-account-for-initial-setup/>

'However, if you want to use the Google Play Store, download apps, or
back up your data, you will need to sign in with a Google account.'

<https://hellosmartlife.com/do-you-need-a-google-account-to-use-google-pixel/>

No wonder Apple devices are the most exploited in the world.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

False.

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.system

On Thu, 22 May 2025 09:48:04 -0700, Alan wrote:

'Other logins included Facebook, Google, Instagram, Microsoft, and PayPal.'

None of those are ever required just to make the device work normally.

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On Thu, 22 May 2025 10:14:24 -0700, Alan wrote:

On 2025-05-22 10:07, Victor wrote:

On Thu, 22 May 2025 09:48:04 -0700, Alan wrote:

'Other logins included Facebook, Google, Instagram, Microsoft, and PayPal.' >>

None of those are ever required just to make the device work normally.

The point is that data hacks are widespread and don't say anything in particular about any one company.

And beyond having an AppleID, you don't need to give it much personal information.

When someone has your Apple ID and password, especially from a database
leak like the one mentioned in the 9to5Mac article, they gain access to a significant portion of your digital life within the Apple ecosystem. This
is incredibly serious, and here's a breakdown of what they could get:

Direct Access to Your Apple Services and Data:

iCloud Data: This is a huge one. They can access:
Photos and Videos: All photos and videos stored in iCloud Photos.
iCloud Drive Files: Any documents, PDFs, or other files you've saved to
iCloud Drive.

iCloud Backups: Backups of your iPhone, iPad, and other Apple devices,
which can contain a vast amount of personal data (messages, app data,
health data, call history, etc.).
Contacts, Calendars, Notes, Reminders: All your synced personal
information.

iMessage and FaceTime History: Your communication records.
Health Data: If synced to iCloud.
Passwords (iCloud Keychain): While iCloud Keychain is encrypted, if they
can log in to your Apple ID on a new trusted device (which they could
attempt to do), they might gain access to your saved passwords for websites
and apps.

Purchases:
App Store and iTunes Store Purchases: They can see your purchase history
and potentially make new purchases using your saved payment methods.
Apple Pay: If your Apple ID is linked to Apple Pay, they might be able to
use your payment methods.

Find My:
Device Location: They can see the real-time location of all your Apple
devices (iPhone, iPad, Mac, Apple Watch, AirPods, AirTags).
Device Locking/Erasing: They could remotely lock your devices, display a message, or even erase them, rendering them unusable to you.

Tracking You: They can track your location and the locations of people you share your location with.

Messages and FaceTime: They can send and receive messages and make FaceTime calls as you, potentially scamming your contacts.
Settings and Preferences: They can see and potentially change many of your Apple ID and device settings.
Risks Beyond Direct Access:

Identity Theft: With access to your personal information (email, phone
numbers, birth date, payment info, even documents in iCloud Drive), they
could use this to attempt identity theft.
Financial Loss: Unauthorized purchases through the App Store, iTunes Store,
or Apple Pay.

Phishing and Scams: Knowing your Apple ID and password makes it easier for
them to craft highly convincing phishing attempts that could trick you into revealing even more sensitive information (e.g., banking details, other
online account passwords).

Access to Other Accounts (Password Reuse): The 9to5Mac article explicitly states that this database contained logins for various other services, including Facebook, Google, Microsoft, banks, and government portals. If
you reuse your Apple ID password on other sites, those accounts are also
now severely compromised. This is why password reuse is a major security
risk.

Ransomware/Extortion: In extreme cases, they might lock your devices or
encrypt your data and demand a ransom.
What You Should Do IMMEDIATELY (if your Apple ID was part of a breach or
you suspect compromise):

Change your Apple ID password immediately. Make it strong, unique, and
long.
Enable Two-Factor Authentication (2FA) for your Apple ID if you haven't already. This is critical! Even if they have your password, they won't be
able to log in without access to your trusted device to receive the verification code.
Review your trusted devices in your Apple ID settings (Settings > [Your
Name] > Password & Security > Trusted Devices). Remove any devices you
don't recognize.
Check your account information: Verify your name, phone numbers, email addresses, and payment methods are correct and haven't been altered by the attacker.
Monitor your bank and credit card statements for any unauthorized
purchases.
Be vigilant for phishing attempts: Be extra cautious about any emails or messages that appear to be from Apple or other services, especially if they
ask for personal information or direct you to click on links.
Consider using a password manager to generate and store strong, unique passwords for all your online accounts, reducing the risk of password
reuse.
Use tools like Have I Been Pwned to check if your email addresses or phone numbers have appeared in other data breaches.
The article emphasizes that the passwords were found in "plain text," which
is a nightmare scenario as it means the attackers don't even need to crack
or decrypt them. This underscores the severity of such a breach and the importance of strong security practices.

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.system

On Thu, 22 May 2025 09:48:04 -0700, Alan wrote:

No other operating system requires a mothership account.
Just Apple.

<https://www.howtogeek.com/739837/fyi-windows-11-home-will-require-a-microsoft-account-for-initial-setup/>

Maybe this idiot should tell the millions of Windows 11 owners who only had
to set up a local account if this idiot thinks the account is required.

This idiot should ask the windows 11 ng for details before responding.

'However, if you want to use the Google Play Store, download apps, or
back up your data, you will need to sign in with a Google account.'

<https://hellosmartlife.com/do-you-need-a-google-account-to-use-google-pixel/>

Maybe this idiot should tell the millions of Android owners who only hit
the skip button when Google asked if they wanted to set up an account that
this idiot knows more than they do about not setting up an Android account.

All the apps on the google play store are downloadable without an account.
This idiot should ask the Android newsgroup for details before responding.

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On Thu, 22 May 2025 13:38:49 -0400, Joel wrote :

No other operating system requires a mothership account.
Just Apple.

Where do you come up with that? I loathe iOS and macOS, but they are
real OSes, and Microsoft is moving to requiring an online account. You
can criticize Apple without making up ridiculous nonsense.

Hi Joel,

Remember, I probably have more Apple devices than you do.
And I have Android devices too. And I test them.

I don't do only what Apple tells me to do, Joel. Nor Google.
So I know the differences.

You have no clue. Neither do any of the Apple trolls.
None of the Apple trolls knows anything about iOS.

iOS can't really be called a full-fledged operating system.
Because iOS can't do thousands of things every other OS easily does.

I'm not so sure about MacOS but iOS isn't really an operating system.
Being nice, the best you could call it is that it's a toy operating system.

There's almost nothing you can do with it that *every* other common
consumer operating system does, e.g., something as simple as add a
system-wide firewall, or use the Tor Browser, or run Wi-Fi graphical
debugging tools, or simply change the skin (i.e., the launcher) or set the default app to almost any file type, to spoofing the GPS, to simply
connecting the device to a PC not from Apple and slide files back and
forth.

At best, iOS is brain dead out of the box.
It can't do the most basic of things every other operating system does.

Even if you pull down your pants to let Apple gleefully shove their privacy-robbing AppleID deeply into your asshole, all the painful screaming
in the world means nothing to Apple who hates their customer two much they won;t even let you remove that stick up your ass by removing the 2FA.

No other common consumer OS vender hates their customer as much as Apple
does in that NOBODY but Apple requires 2FA just to use the device daily.

Only Apple requires that mothership account shoved up your ass (if you want
the device to do anything at all - even as it's brain dead anyway).

And only Apple enjoys your pain so much after shoving that account up your
ass that Apple won't let you remove the 2FA which Apple requires you have.

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On 2025-05-22 10:31, Victor wrote:

On Thu, 22 May 2025 10:14:24 -0700, Alan wrote:

On 2025-05-22 10:07, Victor wrote:

On Thu, 22 May 2025 09:48:04 -0700, Alan wrote:

'Other logins included Facebook, Google, Instagram, Microsoft,
and PayPal.'

None of those are ever required just to make the device work
normally.

The point is that data hacks are widespread and don't say anything
in particular about any one company.

And beyond having an AppleID, you don't need to give it much
personal information.

When someone has your Apple ID and password, especially from a
database leak like the one mentioned in the 9to5Mac article, they
gain access to a significant portion of your digital life within the
Apple ecosystem. This is incredibly serious, and here's a breakdown
of what they could get:

Direct Access to Your Apple Services and Data:

iCloud Data: This is a huge one. They can access: Photos and Videos:
All photos and videos stored in iCloud Photos. iCloud Drive Files:
Any documents, PDFs, or other files you've saved to iCloud Drive.

If you choose to use iCloud Data...

...which you aren't required to do.

And that's only if they can actually log in to your Apple ID...

...(actually now called Apple Account; try and keep up)...

...which they can't...

...because Apple requires two-factor authentication...

...meaning merely having your Apple Account information--userID and
password isn't enough to get access to someone's data.

iCloud Backups: Backups of your iPhone, iPad, and other Apple
devices, which can contain a vast amount of personal data (messages,
app data, health data, call history, etc.). Contacts, Calendars,
Notes, Reminders: All your synced personal information.

If you choose to use iCloud Backups...

...which you aren't required to do.

And that's only if they can actually log in to your Apple ID...

...(actually now called Apple Account; try and keep up)...

...which they can't...

...because Apple requires two-factor authentication...

...meaning merely having your Apple Account information--userID and
password isn't enough to get access to someone's data.

iMessage and FaceTime History: Your communication records. Health
Data: If synced to iCloud. Passwords (iCloud Keychain): While iCloud
Keychain is encrypted, if they can log in to your Apple ID on a new
trusted device (which they could attempt to do), they might gain
access to your saved passwords for websites and apps.

If you choose to use iMessage and FaceTime...

...which you aren't required to do.

And that's only if they can actually log in to your Apple ID...

...(actually now called Apple Account; try and keep up)...

...which they can't...

...because Apple requires two-factor authentication...

...meaning merely having your Apple Account information--userID and
password isn't enough to get access to someone's data.

Purchases: App Store and iTunes Store Purchases: They can see your
purchase history and potentially make new purchases using your saved
payment methods. Apple Pay: If your Apple ID is linked to Apple Pay,
they might be able to use your payment methods.

Oh, no! They can see you bought Angry Birds!

And that's only if they can actually log in to your Apple ID...

...(actually now called Apple Account; try and keep up)...

...which they can't...

...because Apple requires two-factor authentication...

...meaning merely having your Apple Account information--userID and
password isn't enough to get access to someone's data.

Find My: Device Location: They can see the real-time location of all
your Apple devices (iPhone, iPad, Mac, Apple Watch, AirPods,
AirTags). Device Locking/Erasing: They could remotely lock your
devices, display a message, or even erase them, rendering them
unusable to you.

This one is true.

Tracking You: They can track your location and the locations of
people you share your location with.

Messages and FaceTime: They can send and receive messages and make
FaceTime calls as you, potentially scamming your contacts. Settings
and Preferences: They can see and potentially change many of your
Apple ID and device settings. Risks Beyond Direct Access:

Not if you've established two-factor authentication...

...which is required by Apple.

Identity Theft: With access to your personal information (email,
phone numbers, birth date, payment info, even documents in iCloud
Drive), they could use this to attempt identity theft. Financial
Loss: Unauthorized purchases through the App Store, iTunes Store, or
Apple Pay.

1. You don't need to put much of any personal information into an Apple
Account

2. We've already covered that merely having your Apple Account userID
and password isn't enough to access iCloud.

3. Same for purchases

Phishing and Scams: Knowing your Apple ID and password makes it
easier for them to craft highly convincing phishing attempts that
could trick you into revealing even more sensitive information
(e.g., banking details, other online account passwords).

How would that work, exactly?

Access to Other Accounts (Password Reuse): The 9to5Mac article
explicitly states that this database contained logins for various
other services, including Facebook, Google, Microsoft, banks, and
government portals. If you reuse your Apple ID password on other
sites, those accounts are also now severely compromised. This is why
password reuse is a major security risk.

And how is that Apple's fault if you reuse passwords?

Ransomware/Extortion: In extreme cases, they might lock your devices
or encrypt your data and demand a ransom. What You Should Do
IMMEDIATELY (if your Apple ID was part of a breach or you suspect compromise):

They can't "encrypt your data".

Change your Apple ID password immediately.

Duh.

Make it strong, unique,
and long.

Duh.

Enable Two-Factor Authentication (2FA) for your Apple ID
if you haven't already. This is critical! Even if they have your
password, they won't be able to log in without access to your
trusted device to receive the verification code. Review your trusted
devices in your Apple ID settings (Settings > [Your Name] > Password
& Security > Trusted Devices). Remove any devices you don't
recognize. Check your account information: Verify your name, phone
numbers, email addresses, and payment methods are correct and
haven't been altered by the attacker. Monitor your bank and credit
card statements for any unauthorized purchases. Be vigilant for
phishing attempts: Be extra cautious about any emails or messages
that appear to be from Apple or other services, especially if they
ask for personal information or direct you to click on links.
Consider using a password manager to generate and store strong,
unique passwords for all your online accounts, reducing the risk of
password reuse. Use tools like Have I Been Pwned to check if your
email addresses or phone numbers have appeared in other data
breaches. The article emphasizes that the passwords were found in
"plain text," which is a nightmare scenario as it means the
attackers don't even need to crack or decrypt them. This underscores
the severity of such a breach and the importance of strong security practices.

Indeed.

You've discovered that good security practices are important.

Bravo.

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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.sys.mac.system

On Thu, 22 May 2025 14:25:57 -0400, Joel wrote :

So, is it meth or cocaine, that you're on? Heh.

Classic Apple troll response, Joel.
You prove all the Apple trolls own the capacitive mind of a small child.

You tell these Apple trolls facts about the Apple devices they love.
And all they can respond with to the facts - are their childish taunts.

Q: Why can't Joel respond to the facts about Apple like an adult would?
A: He's an Apple troll, that's why. He owns the mind of a small child.

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On Thu, 22 May 2025 15:53:47 -0400, Joel wrote :

Incorrect, I think iOS and macOS are garbage, crapware, goofy even.
Certainly I agree with you that they're less secure, but I don't agree
that an iPhone is a dumb terminal, that's just ignoring a basic fact.

You can disagree with the facts - but if you say I'm on drugs simply
because you hate the facts - that says more about you than about me.

I respond to each person in the way that they approach me, where I consider your response above that of an adult - so I will respond in kind as an
adult.

Why do I claim the iPhone is a dumb terminal, Joel?

Might it be because almost nothing works on iOS unless you log that
terminal into the Apple mainframe servers, Joel?

Worse, if you don't have an account on the mainframe, then the dumb
terminal device does almost nothing but take pictures. That's about it.

You can't run any software other than what came with the device, Joel.
That's pretty dumb since almost nobody can make do with the native apps.

But what's worse, is even if you do create an account on the mainframe, the device is *still* a dumb terminal in that it can't do anything every other operating system does, Joel.

Why can't iOS run the Tor Browser, for example?
Why can't iOS run a system-wide Firewall, for example?
Why can't iOS do graphical wi-fi/cellular debugging, for example?

The list of things every other operating system does that iOS can't do is astoundingly high, Joel. It's astronomical what iOS can't do. It's a toy.

At best, iOS is a toy.
But it's really just a dumb terminal.

Without logging into Apple's mainframes, it can't do anything useful.
And even with logging into the mainframes, it's still brain dead.

Try to set the default app launcher for example, on iOS.
Try to spoof your GPS location for example, on iOS.
Try to set the default camera app, or music player or video player or file manager or homescreen launcher, etc.

The best characterization of iOS is that it's merely a dumb terminal.

And even when you log into the mainframe, then it progresses to being brain dead since it can't do thousands of things every other OS easily does.

You can disagree with the facts - but if you say I'm on drugs simply
because you hate the facts - that says more about you than about me.

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On Thu, 22 May 2025 16:34:22 -0400, Joel wrote :

It may have restrictions on what you can do without logging in, I
really don't know, but that doesn't equate to it being a dumb
terminal. It is a real computer system known as smartphone.

I appreciate that you are speaking like an adult, where the dumb terminal concept, I'm sure you're aware of, which is that the computer monitor and
the keyboard and the modem connection were needed to "do anything", right?

You'd use the monitor/keyboard/modem to connect to the mainframe servers,
and from there you can make the monitor in front of you "do something".

The iOS device is very similar to that dumb terminal, although I do agree
with you that it can do some things without logging into the mainframes.

What's DIFFERENT about iOS is that you *must* log into those mainframes in order to do the stuff you like about iOS such as installing apps.

In that respect, the iOS device is a dumb terminal since every other
operating system does NOT need to log into anything to install apps.

To be patently clear, you do NOT need to log into Microsoft to install apps
on Windows & you do NOT need to log into Google to install apps on Android.

Only iOS is built to be so dumb that you can't do anything without logging
into the mainframe - which is akin to the old concept of a dumb terminal.

You can't run any software other than what came with the device, Joel. >>That's pretty dumb since almost nobody can make do with the native apps.

Well, frankly I don't get why one would buy a proprietary-OS device if
they aren't willing to have an online account with the OEM, that's
true in Windows 11, Google account for an Android device, it might not
always be required as you are saying it is with iOS, but it has real
purpose in using the device.

I thank you for keeping an adult hat on when you made that observation.

However... it's hard to answer you when you say that, because it's like
saying "frankly I don't get why one would buy food at a grocery store when
you can have a delivery service deliver that food to you every day.

Sure, you can have a delivery service deliver you all your food.
For that, you'd have to have an account with that delivery service.

But most people are perfectly fine with NOT having an account with a
delivery service and then when they need food, they go to the grocery store
to get that food.

Sometimes they may have an account at a grocery store. Sometimes not.
But they can go to any grocery store with cash - even the one they have a credit card on file with - so they have the perfect freedom they want.

It's the same with every operating system except Apple's dumb systems.
With Apple's dumb system, you're forced to have that delivery service.

Whether you want it or not.

As an example, I'm on Windows and I've *never* had a Microsoft Account.
And I can install any app I want on my Windows machine without it.

Likewise, I'm on Android and I haven't had a Google Account on my phone
for, oh, I don't know. Maybe 8 or so years. Android works fine without it.

And I can install any app I want on my Android device without it.
Even apps from the Google Play Store repository - so there's no negative.

Now, I do have iOS devices. They don't work that way. They're all designed
to be dumb terminals. So without an account on Apple's mainframes, they
pretty much don't do much. Sure, they can take pictures. But not much else.

Without logging into Apple's mainframes every day of your life, Joel, the
Apple devices don't do anything much - which is why they're dumb terminals.

But what's worse, is even if you do create an account on the mainframe, the >>device is *still* a dumb terminal in that it can't do anything every other >>operating system does, Joel.

Why can't iOS run the Tor Browser, for example?
Why can't iOS run a system-wide Firewall, for example?
Why can't iOS do graphical wi-fi/cellular debugging, for example?

The list of things every other operating system does that iOS can't do is >>astoundingly high, Joel. It's astronomical what iOS can't do. It's a toy.

At best, iOS is a toy.
But it's really just a dumb terminal.

Without logging into Apple's mainframes, it can't do anything useful.
And even with logging into the mainframes, it's still brain dead.

Try to set the default app launcher for example, on iOS.
Try to spoof your GPS location for example, on iOS.
Try to set the default camera app, or music player or video player or file >>manager or homescreen launcher, etc.

The best characterization of iOS is that it's merely a dumb terminal.

And even when you log into the mainframe, then it progresses to being brain >>dead since it can't do thousands of things every other OS easily does.

You can disagree with the facts - but if you say I'm on drugs simply >>because you hate the facts - that says more about you than about me.

I don't know enough about iOS to take all that apart, you could be
right I guess, I'll probably never know because I wouldn't spend a
dime on Apple's crapware and gear.

My main problem with Apple is simply that Apple is a deceitful company who
gets rich off of lying to its customer base, much like Big Tobacco did.

Just like millions smoked Marlboro thinking they were rough & tough
cowboys, Apple is a cancer stick for the owners of their products.

The Apple troll's cancer has taken over the Apple owner's brain to the
point that they think the worst operating system support is the best.

That is the power of propaganda.
Instead of spending money on the operating system, Apple spends all their
money on marketing it. That's why iOS is the most exploited in history.

I rue that Apple is so successful at hating their own customer base and as
a result, each Apple customer gets a stick shoved up their ass & they
defend Apple's right to shove that stick up their ass, even to the point of waiting outside the Apple store just so Apple can remove the last stick
Apple shoved up their ass, only to shove another stick up their ass.

This new stick has no charging block (that's separate) or aux jack.
So there are multiple sticks Apple gleefully shoves up its customers' ass.
--
The graphic is clearly to make the point obvious what Apple does.

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On 2025-05-22, Marion <[email protected]> wrote:

Apple logins with plain text passwords found in massive database of 184M records
<https://9to5mac.com/2025/05/22/apple-logins-with-plain-text-passwords-found-in-massive-database-of-184m-records/>

Little Marion desperately wants everyone to ignore this part of the
article:

"Fowler believes that the data was likely gathered from infostealers – malware specifically designed to mine devices for personal information."

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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On 23 May 2025 18:07:17 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote :

"Fowler believes that the data was likely gathered from infostealers �V malware specifically designed to mine devices for personal information."

The problem with Apple devices, Jolly Roger, is you *must* log into the Cupertino mothership for iOS devices to do anything whatsoever useful.

That's because Apple designed iOS devices as simple but dumb terminals.
Pretty. But dumb. A toy. No more powerful than a smart TV monitor in fact.

It's a fact no iOS toy device has anywhere near the power of a real device. That's just a fact.

If you need me to list what iOS can't do, I'll be glad to tell you again.
But suffice to say there's a DANGER in making iOS devices dumb terminals.

That DANGER is that iOS devices all have logins into Apple's mainframes.
Which is why this password database is so damaging to Apple owners.

Why do you think iOS is the most exploited mobile operating system, JR?

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On 2025-05-23 11:38, Marion wrote:

On 23 May 2025 18:07:17 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote :

"Fowler believes that the data was likely gathered from infostealers –
malware specifically designed to mine devices for personal information."

The problem with Apple devices, Jolly Roger, is you *must* log into the Cupertino mothership for iOS devices to do anything whatsoever useful.

Nope.

That is utterly false.

Nothing more needs to be said about all the bullshit that flows from
your initial falsehood, but I will point out for new readers, that this
is the same person who absolutely INSISTED (and who claims he only ever
states "facts") that iOS couldn't possibly provide SMB file sharing to
Windows computers because it was (according to him) "impossible" for a user-level process to bind to a port below 1024...

...and had to have it beaten over his head repeatedly that he was full
of shit.

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