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  • Google Groups ending support for Usenet

    From Alan Bawden@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 15 17:28:48 2023
    See: https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538

    I'm guessing that most people still paying attention to comp.lang.lisp
    aren't using Google Groups to do so, but if you are you will need to
    adjust.

    --
    Alan Bawden

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 16 20:45:52 2023
    Some entity, AKA Alan Bawden <[email protected]>,
    wrote this mindboggling stuff:
    (selectively-snipped-or-not-p)

    See: https://support.google.com/groups/answer/11036538

    That cold not come soon enough due to the current spam tsunami.

    Cor

    --

    Any marginally usable programming language approaches an ill
    defined barely usable re-implementation of half of common-lisp

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From B. Pym@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon May 27 11:46:20 2024
    On 12/16/2023, [email protected] wrote:

    Any marginally usable programming language approaches an ill
    defined barely usable re-implementation of half of common-lisp

    The good news is, it's not Lisp that sucks, but Common Lisp.
    --- Paul Graham

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Cor@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 27 14:18:42 2024
    Some entity, AKA "B. Pym" <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org>,
    wrote this mindboggling stuff:
    (selectively-snipped-or-not-p)

    On 12/16/2023, [email protected] wrote:

    Any marginally usable programming language approaches an ill
    defined barely usable re-implementation of half of common-lisp

    The good news is, it's not Lisp that sucks, but Common Lisp.
    --- Paul Graham

    Just to set the record straight;
    This is not My line.
    I quoted it but don't know who the originator of that remmark is.

    Cor


    --

    Any marginally usable programming language approaches an ill
    defined barely usable re-implementation of half of common-lisp

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From HenHanna@21:1/5 to Cor on Mon May 27 12:37:01 2024
    XPost: comp.lang.scheme, comp.lang.python

    On 5/27/2024 7:18 AM, Cor wrote:
    Some entity, AKA "B. Pym" <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org>,
    wrote this mindboggling stuff:
    (selectively-snipped-or-not-p)

    On 12/16/2023, [email protected] wrote:

    Any marginally usable programming language approaches an ill
    defined barely usable re-implementation of half of common-lisp

    The good news is, it's not Lisp that sucks, but Common Lisp.
    --- Paul Graham

    Just to set the record straight;
    This is not My line.
    I quoted it but don't know who the originator of that remark is.

    Cor



    a few years ago... when i started learning Python...

    it was so exciting...

    Every day i thought...

    --- THis is Lisp in a thin-disguise ... SO Everyone gets it now.
    Everyone is a Lisper now.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan Bawden@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 27 17:58:19 2024
    Cor <[email protected]> writes:

    Some entity, AKA "B. Pym" <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org>,
    wrote this mindboggling stuff:
    (selectively-snipped-or-not-p)

    > On 12/16/2023, [email protected] wrote:
    >
    >> Any marginally usable programming language approaches an ill
    >> defined barely usable re-implementation of half of common-lisp
    >
    > The good news is, it's not Lisp that sucks, but Common Lisp.
    > --- Paul Graham

    Just to set the record straight;
    This is not My line.
    I quoted it but don't know who the originator of that remmark is.

    What you quoted is so close to "Greenspun's tenth rule" (see <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun%27s_tenth_rule>), that I think
    Phil Greenspun probably deserves the credit.

    - Alan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From B. Pym@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue May 28 01:22:39 2024
    On 12/16/2023, [email protected] wrote:

    Any marginally usable programming language approaches an ill
    defined barely usable re-implementation of half of common-lisp

    Paul Graham:

    I consider Loop one of the worst flaws in CL, and an example
    to be borne in mind by both macro writers and language designers.


    [In "ANSI Common Lisp", Graham makes the following comments:]

    The loop macro was originally designed to help inexperienced
    Lisp users write iterative code. Instead of writing Lisp code,
    you express your program in a form meant to resemble English,
    and this is then translated into Lisp. Unfortunately, loop is
    more like English than its designers ever intended: you can
    use it in simple cases without quite understanding how it
    works, but to understand it in the abstract is almost
    impossible.
    ....
    the ANSI standard does not really give a formal specification
    of its behavior.
    ....
    The first thing one notices about the loop macro is that it
    has syntax. A loop expression contains not subexpressions but
    clauses. The clauses are not delimited by parentheses;
    instead, each kind has a distinct syntax. In that, loop
    resembles traditional Algol-like languages. But the other
    distinctive feature of loop, which makes it as unlike Algol as
    Lisp, is that the order in which things happen is only
    loosely related to the order in which the clauses occur.
    ....
    For such reasons, the use of loop cannot be recommended.

    He wrote:

    "the ANSI standard does not really give a formal specification
    of its behavior."

    In other words, Loop is "ill-defined".

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