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  • Re: Pronunciation of tuple

    From Bart@21:1/5 to James Harris on Thu Aug 15 19:35:56 2024
    On 15/08/2024 17:26, James Harris wrote:
    The term "tuple" appears a fair bit in programming but its pronunciation
    is a source of some controversy.


    How do you pronounce "tuple"?

    I don't think I've ever had to say it out loud!

    Working in isolation for some many years, there are probably lots of
    terms and names that I don't know the pronounciation of. Sometimes a
    youtube lecture is the first time I hear a technical term spoken aloud.

    (However, I prefer to say 'giga' as though it starts with 'j', even
    though most say it the other way.)


    Like me, are you irritated when people pronounce it 'the wrong way'?

    How can fellow programmers be persuaded to pronounce it 'properly'?


    Correct (IMO) is tu'ple with the first syllable ending in a long u.


    That sounds about right and how I'd guess it should be said.

    But I typed it into Google Translate, told it to say it, and its
    pronounciation was 'tupple'.



    Wrong (IMO) is tup'le with the u being short.

    As evidence of where a short and long u are similarly used in English:

    super - su'per - long u
    supper - supp'er - short u

    Also, supple - short u due to the double p.

    The other reason is where I believe tuple comes from. Consider groups of increasing numbers of items:

    0 - void
    1 - single
    2 - pair
    3 - triple
    4 - quadruple
    5 - quintuple
    6 - sextuple
    7 - septuple
    8 - octuple

    etc, where the higher numbers end in "tuple".

    leading to

    n - n-tuple

    I would say that the latter ones of those above, 4 to 8, are pronounced
    with a long u which is, therefore, why there should be a long u in tuple.

    Perhaps people who pronounce it tupple grew up reading comics about supperman. ;-)


    'quintuplet' sounds correct with a short 'u' and weird with a long 'u'.

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  • From Stefan Ram@21:1/5 to James Harris on Thu Aug 15 19:58:24 2024
    James Harris <[email protected]> wrote or quoted:
    The term "tuple" appears a fair bit in programming but its pronunciation
    is a source of some controversy.

    There's low-key more backing for the [uː] you think is right.

    I've heard folks say it (in vids) with both [uː] and [ʌ].

    Word pronunciations can be hella irregular, with exceptions like the
    "u" in "busy," "business," and "bury." So, the "u" in "tuple" might
    be a gnarly exception too.

    (Another similar debate is how to say "router.")

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Stefan Ram on Fri Aug 16 00:04:21 2024
    On 15 Aug 2024 19:58:24 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:

    (Another similar debate is how to say "router.")

    There are two different words. One of them only has one commonly-used pronunciation. The controversy is over whether the other should use the
    same pronunciation or not.

    It seems to me, it make sense if it doesn’t.

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  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to Stefan Ram on Fri Aug 16 11:34:00 2024
    On 15/08/2024 21:58, Stefan Ram wrote:
    James Harris <[email protected]> wrote or quoted:
    The term "tuple" appears a fair bit in programming but its pronunciation
    is a source of some controversy.

    There's low-key more backing for the [uː] you think is right.

    I've heard folks say it (in vids) with both [uː] and [ʌ].

    I don't think there is any consistency or pattern here - both are used.

    I suspect a major reason for this is that the word "tuple" is not in
    common usage outside of programming. So a large proportion of people
    first come across it in written form, and pick whatever pronunciation
    seems to work when they first say the word.

    There is also no authoritative reference, unlike for terms like "Linux"
    where there is a clearly correct pronunciation (based on the
    pronunciation of the OS "Minix" and the way Linus Torvalds pronounces
    his name - the Finnish way, not the common American way. Linus created
    Linux - he gets to decide the correct pronunciation for the word).



    Word pronunciations can be hella irregular, with exceptions like the
    "u" in "busy," "business," and "bury." So, the "u" in "tuple" might
    be a gnarly exception too.

    (Another similar debate is how to say "router.")

    That one is a lot clearer. In British English, the word "route" is
    pronounced the same as "root". In American English, it is pronounced
    the same as "rout" (rhyming with "out"). So obviously the correct pronunciation is like "root-er" :-)

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  • From Brian Morrison@21:1/5 to David Brown on Fri Aug 16 11:38:38 2024
    On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 11:34:00 +0200
    David Brown <[email protected]> wrote:

    (Another similar debate is how to say "router.")

    That one is a lot clearer. In British English, the word "route" is pronounced the same as "root". In American English, it is pronounced
    the same as "rout" (rhyming with "out"). So obviously the correct pronunciation is like "root-er" :-)

    Unless you're talking about the device used to cut channels in pieces
    of wood, in which it is rout-er.

    --

    Brian Morrison "No, his mind is not for rent
    To any god or government
    Always hopeful, but discontent
    He knows changes aren't permanent
    But change is"

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  • From Stefan Ram@21:1/5 to Stefan Ram on Fri Aug 16 13:26:04 2024
    [email protected] (Stefan Ram) wrote or quoted:
    I've heard folks say it (in vids) with both [uː] and [ʌ].

    I also heard

    rɪˈzʊlt

    for "result", while dictionaries only give

    rɪˈzʌlt.

    (Péter Szigetvári wrote [rɪˈzʊlt] can be heard in Northern
    England, but I think I heard it from an American speaker.)

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  • From David Brown@21:1/5 to Brian Morrison on Fri Aug 16 16:57:35 2024
    On 16/08/2024 12:38, Brian Morrison wrote:
    On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 11:34:00 +0200
    David Brown <[email protected]> wrote:

    (Another similar debate is how to say "router.")

    That one is a lot clearer. In British English, the word "route" is
    pronounced the same as "root". In American English, it is pronounced
    the same as "rout" (rhyming with "out"). So obviously the correct
    pronunciation is like "root-er" :-)

    Unless you're talking about the device used to cut channels in pieces
    of wood, in which it is rout-er.


    Of course. But that is from the stem "rout", rather than "route". (The
    word "rout", pronounced the way Americans pronounce "route", has several
    other meanings such as an alternative for a bull's bellow, or chasing an
    enemy off the battlefield. I have no idea how Americans pronounce "rout".)

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