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  • HP sysRPL is a Forth derivative?

    From Marcel Hendrix@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 5 16:16:42 2023
    Remarkable. Even has the local variable ideas and JVN's Formula
    Translator (or maybe it is the other way around).

    The similarity might of course be because stack languages look all alike?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHAGnU2HiJE&ab_channel=CalculatorClique .

    -marcel

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  • From dxforth@21:1/5 to Marcel Hendrix on Mon Feb 6 12:30:45 2023
    On 6/02/2023 11:16 am, Marcel Hendrix wrote:
    Remarkable. Even has the local variable ideas and JVN's Formula
    Translator (or maybe it is the other way around).

    The similarity might of course be because stack languages look all alike?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHAGnU2HiJE&ab_channel=CalculatorClique .

    "RPN

    It's not clear where HP began in the development of the Reverse Polish Notation (RPN). HP considers it a direct derivation from the mathematical works of Jan Lukasiewicz, but it's likely that experience with mechanical calculators and/or the logic system of the Friden ECs influenced them as well."

    https://www.hpmuseum.org/rpnvers.htm

    "RPL

    In the late 1980s, HP was developing a new series of extremely powerful calculators that needed a new programming language. [...]
    HP examined existing languages such as BASIC but found them to be unsuitable both because of their limitations and their resource demands which were still rather high for pocket devices. Instead, HP combined elements of RPN, Lisp and Forth and came up with a language called Reverse Polish Lisp or RPL. From Lisp, RPL inherited concepts such as atomic and composite objects, temporary (lambda) variables, garbage collection, the ability to pass unevaluated objects as arguments etc. and from Forth, RPL inherited threaded execution and RPN notation
    with an unlimited stack."

    https://www.hpmuseum.org/rpl.htm

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  • From JKN@21:1/5 to Marcel Hendrix on Mon Feb 6 01:19:27 2023
    On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 12:16:44 AM UTC, Marcel Hendrix wrote:
    Remarkable. Even has the local variable ideas and JVN's Formula
    Translator (or maybe it is the other way around).

    The similarity might of course be because stack languages look all alike?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHAGnU2HiJE&ab_channel=CalculatorClique .

    -marcel

    (some) HP Calculators have been RPL based, since, like, forever:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-65

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  • From Marcel Hendrix@21:1/5 to dxforth on Mon Feb 6 02:06:49 2023
    On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 2:30:48 AM UTC+1, dxforth wrote:
    On 6/02/2023 11:16 am, Marcel Hendrix wrote:
    [..]
    the ability to pass unevaluated objects as arguments etc.
    [..]

    This strikes me as an interesting concept. Is it more than
    run-time compilation and/or EVALUATE ? It seems one could do
    tricks like partial evaluation of recursive problems with it.
    Here SAVE-INPUT and RESTORE-INPUT might be handy, too.
    Maybe dig out some examples from that manual ...

    -marcel

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  • From none) (albert@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Feb 6 12:34:56 2023
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Marcel Hendrix <[email protected]> wrote:
    Remarkable. Even has the local variable ideas and JVN's Formula
    Translator (or maybe it is the other way around).

    The similarity might of course be because stack languages look all alike?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHAGnU2HiJE&ab_channel=CalculatorClique .

    My father was an accountant and he had an Olivetti mechanical calculator.
    They worked like given a number into a register, then push the add
    or subtract button. No way brackets come into play.
    Reverse polish is simply the natural way to design calculators.


    -marcel

    Groetjes Albert
    --
    Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
    You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
    hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
    the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

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  • From [email protected]@21:1/5 to none albert on Mon Feb 6 23:54:55 2023
    none albert schrieb am Montag, 6. Februar 2023 um 12:35:01 UTC+1:
    In article <[email protected]>,
    Marcel Hendrix <[email protected]> wrote:
    Remarkable. Even has the local variable ideas and JVN's Formula
    Translator (or maybe it is the other way around).

    The similarity might of course be because stack languages look all alike?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHAGnU2HiJE&ab_channel=CalculatorClique .
    My father was an accountant and he had an Olivetti mechanical calculator. They worked like given a number into a register, then push the add
    or subtract button. No way brackets come into play.
    Reverse polish is simply the natural way to design calculators.

    Unfortunately scientists/engineers have to work with much more complex formulas than accountants. Converting such formulas to RPN is error-prone.
    Anyhow I guess that Excel is now the most used calculator for everybody.

    OTOH financial mathematics has become a very advanced and complex field. But
    it often works on big data, which is not really Forth's strong side. ;-)

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  • From Marcel Hendrix@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Tue Feb 7 01:57:28 2023
    On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 8:54:57 AM UTC+1, [email protected] wrote:
    [..]
    Unfortunately scientists/engineers have to work with much more complex formulas
    than accountants. Converting such formulas to RPN is error-prone.
    Anyhow I guess that Excel is now the most used calculator for everybody.
    [..]

    Aren't you underestimating the problems with nested parentheses? I sometimes need to copy the formula and space it all out with each bracket on a new line, properly indented, to spot the bug.

    Not to say that stack-ops are better, but we can replace them by flocal variables :--)

    -marcel

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