Hi,

How long willl I piss on Bart Demoen?
I don't know, as long as it takes to
clean up my cabinet full of ghosts.

After that I might do some LogNonsenseTalk
bashing again, didn't do a for a long time.
But since Paulo Moura was deciple of

following Bart Demoen in mobbing, he
deserves nothing better. But LogNonsenseTalk
is not yet a ghost, not retired yet,

still a walking Zombie...

LoL

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

But after all these years, Wikipedia still mentions:

Choice Point Elimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Prolog_implementations#Optimizations

Still the complete moron Bart Demoen, drowning in
Dunning-Kruger syndrom, of incompetent people working
in the wrong domain, accused me of:

gives me the feeling that "choice point elimination" is
something jb coined, and does not belong to traditional
Prolog implementation terminology.

So what does Choice Point Elimination mean?

From compiler optimization I would guess elimination
and avoidance have the similar meaning, whereas I would
prefer elimination. Elimination could mean to eliminate

an intermediate step. Like in quantifier elimination,
you eliminate something that was already there but you
could somehow get rid of it through some transformation,

you don't really avoid it. So the Physics PhDs Bart Demoen
which had no education in mathematical logic is no
way excused. He was just exposing the dark side of

wrong people in wrong places.

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

I have really interesting ghosts in by cabinet.
Not only old software, also crazy people like
Bart Demoen. And the good thing everything is

still available through Google Groups that
has nicely preserved comp.lang.prolog. According
Barty Boy the term "Choice Point Elimination"

didn't really exist:

Anyway, I have no idea what "choice point
elimination" is supposed to refer to in literature.
;
Literally, "choice point elimination" should mean
something related to: a choicepoint was created
some technique eliminates that choice point

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.prolog/c/qnwD_TEG4xg/m/LMiDtFY1dQIJ

Well he is somehow right if "elimination" is
interpreted as creating and then destroying.
But it could also mean preventing the creation

of a choice point. You never know from the
far of a the flemish / dutch mountains what a
term means. Even if somebody presents a corpus

resarch as I did.

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

There is one thing that currently causes me headaches.
So far the Dogelog Player design didn't have a big
ping pong from Prolog to Native and back.

It has the Main Design with Prolog --> Native, and
the 2nd Design with Native --> Prolog. We also managed
to do some clause indexing preparation

in the Main Design, so we have this separation of concerning
currently for first argument indexing:

- Computation of Clause Key Value: Prolog
   The computation of the Key Value of a clause is done
   at compile time in pure Prolog. There are two strategies,
   for dynamic predicates the key is directly taken from
   the first argument of the head.

   For static predicates the body of the claue is also
   analyzed, and this can also give a key, like for
   exaple if the body as a unification X = C, and X
   appears as first argument, the the key can be taken from C.

- Computation of Goal/Head Key Value: Native
   The clauses are supplied with their Key Value, and
   Native code does add them with indexing. Or update the
   index when a clause is removed.

   The computation of the Key Value of a goal or clause
   head is done a runtime in Native. And then the lookup
   is done natively as well.

Now I wonder how I can bring multi-argument JIT Indexing
from formerly Jekejeke Prolog into the picture, and still
have a high degree of 100% Prolog code. Some hurdles:

- Clause Key Value on Demand: Native -> Prolog
   So if I would keep the scheme that Prolog determines the
   clause Key Values. And if I would do this on demand,
   I would have a Native -> Prolog call.

- Clauses would need decompile:
   Even if I implement such a Native -> Prolog hook,
   the problem is Clauses have not the compile time format
   at runtime. So the my old 100% Prolog code for Clause
   Key Value will not work, requires first decompilation.

- YAP approach:
   I have an old paper from YAP. For the indexing they
   are scanning the native clause code. I didn't double
   check yet what SWI-Prolog (has JIT-ing) or Scryer Prolog
   (doesn't do it JIT style?). Etc...

- What else?

Well its not a big headache, but a kind of blocker,
before I decide what to do. There are a couple of options
to get out of the dilemma, and turn the Prolog systems

around, and make it 100% Prolog again. Its like the
big beautiful bill by Donald Trump. Make Prolog
100% Prolog again!

LoL

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

Most of the libraries and the system are design so
that native is a last resort. So most functionality is
Prolog and in a few instances there is a native call:

- Main Design:

   Prolog (a lot of it) --> Native (very little)

This design, concerning the call control flow, is only
broken in the top level, and in very few places, like the
browser and a web server. The top-level is a native entry

point and it needs to reach into Prolog, and the
libraries library(react) and library(spin) provide call
back facilities for the browser and a web

server event handlers:

- 2nd Design:

   Native (top-level, react and spin) --> Prolog

There is no idea at all that the Prolog system supports
any iterators. I did this in the past. But the Prolog
system gets simpler without the viewpoint that the

interface should support iterators. SWI-Prolog always
invests heavily to support iterators. Based on the
rather negative experience with formerly Jekejeke Prolog

we tried to completely avoid any iterator interface.

Bye

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi,

But I shouldn't waste too much time.
One shouldn't punish people for just
being plain stupid.

Like for example this clueless french
philosopher who had a lot of troubles
with non-classical logic.

His brain tried to eliminate non-classical
logic, it was keen on avoiding non-classical
logic. A typical species of a human with

an extremly small brain, again working
in the wrong place!

Bye

P.S.: Maybe this a Poincaré thingy? Poincaré
was a strong critic of logicism (as championed
by Frege and Russell) and of Hilbert’s
formalist program.

But, he did not formally use or promote systems
like intuitionistic logic, modal logic, or
relevance logic. His logical framework remained
within the bounds of classical logic,

though he was skeptical of excessive formalism.
He thought formal systems could miss the creative
and synthetic nature of mathematical
invention.

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

How long willl I piss on Bart Demoen?
I don't know, as long as it takes to
clean up my cabinet full of ghosts.

After that I might do some LogNonsenseTalk
bashing again, didn't do a for a long time.
But since Paulo Moura was deciple of

following Bart Demoen in mobbing, he
deserves nothing better. But LogNonsenseTalk
is not yet a ghost, not retired yet,

still a walking Zombie...

LoL

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:

Hi,

But after all these years, Wikipedia still mentions:

Choice Point Elimination
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Prolog_implementations#Optimizations

Still the complete moron Bart Demoen, drowning in
Dunning-Kruger syndrom, of incompetent people working
in the wrong domain, accused me of:

gives me the feeling that "choice point elimination" is
something jb coined, and does not belong to traditional
Prolog implementation terminology.

So what does Choice Point Elimination mean?

 From compiler optimization I would guess elimination
and avoidance have the similar meaning, whereas I would
prefer elimination. Elimination could mean to eliminate

an intermediate step. Like in quantifier elimination,
you eliminate something that was already there but you
could somehow get rid of it through some transformation,

you don't really avoid it. So the Physics PhDs Bart Demoen
which had no education in mathematical logic is no
way excused. He was just exposing the dark side of

wrong people in wrong places.

Bye

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)