Quadibloc <[email protected]> writes:

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 4:26:33?PM UTC-6, Tim Rentsch wrote:

MitchAlsup <[email protected]> writes:

Consider that a processor is comprised of many function units,

Comprises, not is comprised of.

As far as _that_ goes, this is correct. A processor is composed of
many functional units - and the use of comprise here was a mistake;
one could say "A processor comprises many functional units".

But that "comprise" should mean "enclose" rather than "consist of",

I think you're splitting hairs. I see nothing wrong in saying "a
helium nucleus comprises two protons and two neutrons." Depending
on context, that idea might instead be phrased as "a helium nucleus
is composed of two protons and two neutrons", "a helium nucleus
consists of two protons and two neutrons", or "two protons and two
neutrons constitute a helium nucleus" -- each has a slightly
different emphasis.

despite the latter being predominant in American usage for quite
some time, because a particular manual of English usage, however authori[t]ative it may have been considered to be, said so in the
19th Century...

I think you have your facts confused. "The Elements of Style"
dates from the early 20th century, and was published in the 20th
century. Furthermore the book is quite clear that "comprise"
should be used in the sense of "enclose" or "embrace" rather than
the other way around. The example sentence it gives is "A zoo
comprises its animals."

I'm afraid the comments about the absence of an Academie Anglaise
and the like are quite correct. English is a language which is
subject to change through usage.

That is not to say that one shouldn't be discriminating in
accepting innovations from popular usage, and cautious about
copying and propagating errors. Eventually, however, a change
can indeed become well-established.

My point is not about accepted usage but about style. Used in its
original sense, the word comprise serves a useful purpose, and in
some cases it's hard to find a good substitute. The backward sense
that has crept into the language almost always indicates an author
trying to use a fancy word where a more common word or phrase will
do, such as "consists of", "is composed of", and "constitutes",
among others. It isn't that usage of the reverse sense is "wrong";
it's that it is bad style.

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Thomas Koenig <[email protected]> writes:

Tim Rentsch <[email protected]> schrieb:

Thomas Koenig <[email protected]> writes:

Tim Rentsch <[email protected]> schrieb:

People who are serious about good technical writing are
well advised to use "comprise" in the sense of "contains",
"includes", or "encloses", etc.

The topic is more serious when legal documents are concerned,
for example patents.

Let's look at a not-so-random example, US10983755B2, "Transcendental
calculation unit apparatus and method". Its first claim has

1. A processor comprising a floating point multiplication unit,
said floating point multiplication unit comprising:

a coefficient table configured:

to store a plurality of predetermined constants, C, each at
a unique opcode x m-bit index; and

in response to receiving a coefficient selection index, k,
to provide Ck;

[...]

In this patent, and in innumerable others, "comprising" has to
refer to a part, otherwise the claims would make absolutely
no sense (a processor having _only_ such a multiplication unit
would serve no useful purpose).

I think you are misreading the text here.

No.

Both "comprising"s
here are used in the sense I describe, as "containing" or
"including".

Yes.

These responses seem at odds with your earlier comments.
It sounds like you are saying "yes repeat no".

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moi <[email protected]> writes:

On 27/08/2023 05:05, Tim Rentsch wrote:

moi <[email protected]> writes:

On 04/08/2023 00:20, Tim Rentsch wrote:

williamfindlay <[email protected]> writes:

On 20/07/2023 23:26, Tim Rentsch wrote:

MitchAlsup <[email protected]> writes:

Consider that a processor is comprised of many function units,

Comprises, not is comprised of. A zoo comprises its animals,
not the other way around. "Comprises" means roughly the
same as encloses or surrounds. Anyone who works on writing
patents should know this.

My dictionary says this:

"Comprise primarily means ?consist of?, as in the country comprises
twenty states. It can also mean ?constitute or make up a whole?, as in >>>>> this single breed comprises 50 per cent of the Swiss cattle population. >>>>>
When this sense is used in the passive (as in the country is comprised >>>>> of twenty states), it is more or less synonymous with the first sense >>>>> (the country comprises twenty states). This usage is part of standard >>>>> English, but the construction comprise of, as in the property comprises >>>>> of bedroom, bathroom, and kitchen, is regarded as incorrect."

I encourage you to do more research.
My quote that starts "A zoo comprises its animals ..." is from the book >>>> The Elements of Style, written more than one hundred years ago.

"The Elements of Style" is strongly deprecated by actual experts on
English grammar, by whom I mean the the authors of the standard work
on the subject -- The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language --
which was published in THIS millenium.

So I encourage you to do more research. [...]

I stand by my remaining comments that you snipped.

And YOU snipped weighty evidence that you are wrong.

This sentence shows you misunderstood the point I was making.

People who are serious about good technical writing are
well advised to use "comprise" in the sense of "contains",
"includes", or "encloses", etc. I am well aware that many
contemporary dictionaries and references admit other
meanings. That doesn't mean it's a good idea to use them.

You have set yourself up as a better guide to English usage than
professors of the language and the editors of the Oxford English
Dictionary, and claim to be the arbiter of what is "a good idea".

No, I haven't, because that's not what I'm talking about.

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