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  • Wayland versus X11?

    From wAYNE@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 13 21:36:00 2022
    So today, I decided on another adventure this time freshly installing
    the latest 22.04 on my desktop. You may recall last week that I simply
    did an upgrade initially from 18.04, but I thought I'd go ahead and try
    a fresh install. All proceeded fairly smoothly and then I found that
    some of my apps wouldn't work. One even had a message saying that it
    wasn't compatible with Wayland and to switch to X11 instead; another astronomical app wouldn't display correctly as I couldn't see my cursor.
    After browsing the net, a suggestion I came across was to simply alter
    the config file to force reboot into X11. I was originally going to try
    it at log in, but I didn't see any option for selecting anything
    present. Anyway, so now I'm on X11 and the two apps that weren't
    working now are. However, what's the difference between X11 and Wayland
    as I don't see anything visually?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From stepore@21:1/5 to wAYNE on Tue Sep 13 19:28:05 2022
    On 9/13/22 18:36, wAYNE wrote:
    <snip> However, what's the difference between X11 and Wayland
    as I don't see anything visually?

    And exactly what did your own research say? I mean before you actually
    asked in here, surely you did some basic research on your own. What did
    that say?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to wAYNE on Wed Sep 14 03:04:20 2022
    On 9/13/2022 9:36 PM, wAYNE wrote:
    So today, I decided on another adventure this time freshly installing the latest 22.04 on my desktop.  You may recall last week that I simply did an upgrade initially from 18.04, but I thought I'd go ahead and try a fresh install.  All proceeded
    fairly smoothly and then I found that some of my apps wouldn't work.  One even had a message saying that it wasn't compatible with Wayland and to switch to X11 instead; another astronomical app wouldn't display correctly as I couldn't see my cursor.  
    After browsing the net, a suggestion I came across was to simply alter the config file to force reboot into X11.  I was originally going to try it at log in, but I didn't see any option for selecting anything present.  Anyway, so now I'm on X11 and the
    two apps that weren't working now are.  However, what's the difference between X11 and Wayland as I don't see anything visually?

    Wayland is a replacement for X11, and has an X11 compatibility
    mode to smooth the transition.

    But it's a bit more complicated than that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol)

    Compare this diagram (which does not admit that X11 exists)...

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Wayland_display_server_protocol.svg

    with this diagram (which shows how some X11 can run).

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/The_Linux_Graphics_Stack_and_glamor.svg

    ( https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Wayland_%28display_server_protocol%29 )

    Some day, they will remove XWayland and cut off X11 compatibility. Like a PulseAudio
    removing the Alsa-compatibility plugin and causing TVTime to break (my TV set). So some day, XClock and XEyes won't run.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 14 09:35:51 2022
    Am Dienstag, 13. September 2022, um 21:36:00 Uhr schrieb wAYNE:

    Anyway, so now I'm on X11 and the two apps that weren't
    working now are. However, what's the difference between X11 and
    Wayland as I don't see anything visually?

    Wayland is different and causes many problems with certain applications
    and desktop environments.
    IIRC it also doesn't support window mangers like twm/mwm.

    I also use X11 and will use it in future.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andrei Z.@21:1/5 to Marco Moock on Wed Sep 14 11:22:02 2022
    Marco Moock wrote:
    Am Dienstag, 13. September 2022, um 21:36:00 Uhr schrieb wAYNE:

    Anyway, so now I'm on X11 and the two apps that weren't
    working now are. However, what's the difference between X11 and
    Wayland as I don't see anything visually?

    Wayland is different and causes many problems with certain applications
    and desktop environments.
    IIRC it also doesn't support window mangers like twm/mwm.

    I also use X11 and will use it in future.

    +1, but

    Wayland FAQ - What is wrong with X? https://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html#heading_toc_j_6

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 14 12:04:03 2022
    Am Mittwoch, 14. September 2022, um 11:22:02 Uhr schrieb Andrei Z.:

    Wayland FAQ - What is wrong with X? https://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html#heading_toc_j_6

    Interesting, thanks fo the link.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From wAYNE@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 14 10:13:41 2022
    Thanks, all. I guess I'll be sticking with X11 for a while,
    occasionally switching back to Wayland to check compatibility.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@21:1/5 to Andrei Z. on Wed Sep 14 07:56:29 2022
    On 9/14/22 01:22, Andrei Z. wrote:
    Marco Moock wrote:
    Am Dienstag, 13. September 2022, um 21:36:00 Uhr schrieb wAYNE:

    Anyway, so now I'm on X11 and the two apps that weren't
    working now are.  However, what's the difference between X11 and
    Wayland as I don't see anything visually?

    Wayland is different and causes many problems with certain applications
    and desktop environments.
    IIRC it also doesn't support window mangers like twm/mwm.

    I also use X11 and will use it in future.

    +1, but

    Wayland FAQ - What is wrong with X? https://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html#heading_toc_j_6


    There whould be a FAQ on wehat is wrong with Wayland so far.
    And a FAQ on why systemd is a bad idea.

    --
    bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike Easter@21:1/5 to wAYNE on Wed Sep 14 09:20:20 2022
    wAYNE wrote:
    what's the difference between X11 and Wayland as I don't see anything visually?

    My sense of it is...

    ... there are a lot of things 'wrong w/' the old X (x11 since 1987),
    and, theoretically at least, there should/could be a better way of doing it,

    ... *BUT* ...

    ... Wayland has been *trying* and trying and trying to get it done since
    2008, and considering that it hasn't actually gotten it properly done in
    all that time,...

    ... there must be 'something wrong' between the theory and the reality.

    So, maybe Wayland isn't the 'best' idea after all; but apparently there
    isn't an alternative plan in the works. All that seems pretty flakey to me.

    --
    Mike Easter

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From stepore@21:1/5 to Mike Easter on Wed Sep 14 19:54:08 2022
    On 9/14/22 09:20, Mike Easter wrote:

    So, maybe Wayland isn't the 'best' idea after all; but apparently there
    isn't an alternative plan in the works. All that seems pretty flakey to me.



    There was an alternative. Ubuntu forked Wayland with Mir to make Unity
    nice and smooth. But nobody followed suite so both Mir and Unity died.
    Shame. I liked both. and still like Unity now that it's been picked back
    up and coming back to the Ubuntu family again.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)