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  • Re: Choosing a non-Windows OS on Lenovo Secured-core PCs is trickier th

    From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 12 09:06:03 2022
    Am Dienstag, 12. Juli 2022, um 09:50:03 Uhr schrieb Henry Crun:

    https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/11/lenovo_secured_core/?td=rt-3a

    | So far so good. However, for Secured Core PCs "it is a Microsoft
    | requirement for the 3rd Party Certificate to be disabled by default,"
    | according to Lenovo.

    Another try from MS to stop users from installing another OS.

    | Therefore if your PC ships with Windows pre-installed, there is an
    | additional step to be taken to install Linux (or boot into something
    | else) involving a jump into the BIOS setup to enable the Microsoft 3rd
    | Party UEFI Certificate once again.

    Do devices exists that don't have the possibility to change that
    setting?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Anton Ertl@21:1/5 to Marco Moock on Tue Jul 12 07:17:53 2022
    Marco Moock <[email protected]> writes:
    Am Dienstag, 12. Juli 2022, um 09:50:03 Uhr schrieb Henry Crun:

    https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/11/lenovo_secured_core/?td=rt-3a

    | So far so good. However, for Secured Core PCs "it is a Microsoft
    | requirement for the 3rd Party Certificate to be disabled by default,"
    | according to Lenovo.
    ...
    Do devices exists that don't have the possibility to change that
    setting?

    Who knows? And who knows what the next firmware update will change?
    Remember that the Playstation 3 had the "OtherOS" feature and it was
    removed with a firmware update.

    It's better to avoid buying machines that are certified as "Secured
    Core PCs".

    - anton
    --
    M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed [email protected] Most things have to be believed to be seen http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From jjb@21:1/5 to Marco Moock on Tue Jul 12 11:18:53 2022
    On 12-07-2022 09:06, Marco Moock wrote:
    Am Dienstag, 12. Juli 2022, um 09:50:03 Uhr schrieb Henry Crun:

    https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/11/lenovo_secured_core/?td=rt-3a

    | So far so good. However, for Secured Core PCs "it is a Microsoft
    | requirement for the 3rd Party Certificate to be disabled by default,"
    | according to Lenovo.

    Another try from MS to stop users from installing another OS.

    | Therefore if your PC ships with Windows pre-installed, there is an
    | additional step to be taken to install Linux (or boot into something
    | else) involving a jump into the BIOS setup to enable the Microsoft 3rd
    | Party UEFI Certificate once again.

    Do devices exists that don't have the possibility to change that
    setting?


    Just wait. After the EU court has had its final say, there won't BE any devices with this setting (at least not in the EU). To remind you: in
    the past Microsoft changed its policies after some billion dollar fines...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 12 12:26:46 2022
    Am Dienstag, 12. Juli 2022, um 11:18:53 Uhr schrieb jjb:

    Just wait. After the EU court has had its final say, there won't BE
    any devices with this setting (at least not in the EU). To remind
    you: in the past Microsoft changed its policies after some billion
    dollar fines...

    This will take YEARS.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Andrei Z.@21:1/5 to Henry Crun on Tue Jul 12 17:24:31 2022
    Henry Crun wrote:
    https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/11/lenovo_secured_core/?td=rt-3a

    Matthew Garrett: Responsible stewardship of the UEFI secure boot ecosystem

    https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/60248.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Anton Ertl@21:1/5 to jjb on Tue Jul 12 15:32:56 2022
    jjb <[email protected]> writes:
    Just wait. After the EU court has had its final say, there won't BE any >devices with this setting (at least not in the EU). To remind you: in
    the past Microsoft changed its policies after some billion dollar fines...

    The final say of the EU court in at least two recent rulings has been
    that the fines levied against some monopolists are unlawful, i.e.,
    their anticompetetive practices are lawful. We get the best laws that
    money can buy.

    So I don't think that MS has anything to fear from the EU court, and
    no longer anything to fear from the Commissioner for Competition.

    - anton
    --
    M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed [email protected] Most things have to be believed to be seen http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Michael F. Stemper@21:1/5 to Andrei Z. on Wed Jul 13 08:49:38 2022
    On 12/07/2022 09.24, Andrei Z. wrote:
    Henry Crun wrote:
    https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/11/lenovo_secured_core/?td=rt-3a

    Matthew Garrett: Responsible stewardship of the UEFI secure boot ecosystem

    https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/60248.html

    I've been apprehensive ever since I heard about UEFI.

    My M.O. when buying a PC has been to wipe the disk and install
    Ubuntu from a flash drive. Does what these articles discuss mean
    that I won't be able to do that -- at least with Lenovo?


    --
    Michael F. Stemper
    Life's too important to take seriously.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bobbie Sellers@21:1/5 to Michael F. Stemper on Wed Jul 13 08:23:44 2022
    On 7/13/22 06:49, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
    On 12/07/2022 09.24, Andrei Z. wrote:
    Henry Crun wrote:
    https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/11/lenovo_secured_core/?td=rt-3a

    Matthew Garrett: Responsible stewardship of the UEFI secure boot
    ecosystem

    https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/60248.html

    I've been apprehensive ever since I heard about UEFI.

    My M.O. when buying a PC has been to wipe the disk and install
    Ubuntu from a flash drive. Does what these articles discuss mean
    that I won't be able to do that -- at least with Lenovo?

    Does not Ubuntu have a 3rd party MS certificat then
    you only have to go into the BIOS to enable the use of that as far
    as I understand but better re-read the whole article.at the first URL.

    Good luck! Do Not Fear the UEFI! Learn to use it for greater power
    over partitions.

    bliss - brought to you by the power and ease of PCLinuxOS
    the Perfect Computer Linus Operating System(for me),
    and a minor case of hypergraphia.

    --
    bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Michael F. Stemper on Wed Jul 13 11:25:35 2022
    On 7/13/2022 9:49 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
    On 12/07/2022 09.24, Andrei Z. wrote:
    Henry Crun wrote:
    https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/11/lenovo_secured_core/?td=rt-3a

    Matthew Garrett: Responsible stewardship of the UEFI secure boot ecosystem >>
    https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/60248.html

    I've been apprehensive ever since I heard about UEFI.

    My M.O. when buying a PC has been to wipe the disk and install
    Ubuntu from a flash drive. Does what these articles discuss mean
    that I won't be able to do that -- at least with Lenovo?

    I think the article is saying, you go into the UEFI screen
    and enable the shim again.

    Here is your one-page PDF instruction manual, Dear Lenovo Customer.
    Don't lose this.

    https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/Enable_Secure_Boot_for_Linux_Secured-core_PCs.pdf

    "This means that for any of these Lenovo platforms shipped with Windows preinstalled
    an extra step is needed to allow Linux to boot with secure boot enabled."

    You can pin that sheet to the dart board in your recreation room.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 13 18:28:44 2022
    Am Mittwoch, 13. Juli 2022, um 11:25:35 Uhr schrieb Paul:

    I think the article is saying, you go into the UEFI screen
    and enable the shim again.

    Here is your one-page PDF instruction manual, Dear Lenovo Customer.
    Don't lose this.

    https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/Enable_Secure_Boot_for_Linux_Secured-core_PCs.pdf

    Rather funny is the fact that the took a photo instead of using their
    own online BIOS/UEFI emulator:
    https://download.lenovo.com/bsco/index.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 13 18:26:52 2022
    Am Mittwoch, 13. Juli 2022, um 08:23:44 Uhr schrieb Bobbie Sellers:

    Good luck! Do Not Fear the UEFI! Learn to use it for greater power
    over partitions.

    I don't fear it, i sometimes use UEFI.
    Additionally, with Ubuntu, it is possible to boot on a legacy CSM
    system from a GPT disk.
    This is also the default of the Ubuntu installer. It creates GPT
    partition tables instead of MBR, regardless if the system supports UEFI
    or not.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Albert Arkwright@21:1/5 to jjb on Wed Jul 13 19:00:00 2022
    On 12/07/2022 10:18, jjb wrote:
    Just wait. After the EU court has had its final say, there won't BE any devices with this setting (at least not in the EU). To remind you: in
    the past Microsoft changed its policies after some billion dollar fines...
    EU is corrupt. Look at Macron who took bribes from Uber and some
    officials at the EU were also bribed by Uber.

    There is nothing anybody can do when multi-billionaires own this
    planet!. Their argument is they are creating jobs so the politicians
    will dance to their tune and take bribes.

    What is required is some Open Source people to get together and go to
    China and ask them to make custom designed PCs and Laptops for Linux and
    the OS is pre-loaded from the factory. Sell these machines at just 15%
    markup so that uptake can be fast and in big volume. I don't understand
    why Canonical <https://canonical.com/#products> take the lead to sell
    its own machines - desktops, laptops and servers.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joerg Lorenz@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 13 21:45:08 2022
    Am 13.07.22 um 20:00 schrieb Albert Arkwright:
    On 12/07/2022 10:18, jjb wrote:
    Just wait. After the EU court has had its final say, there won't BE any
    devices with this setting (at least not in the EU). To remind you: in
    the past Microsoft changed its policies after some billion dollar fines...
    EU is corrupt. Look at Macron who took bribes from Uber and some
    officials at the EU were also bribed by Uber.

    There is nothing anybody can do when multi-billionaires own this
    planet!. Their argument is they are creating jobs so the politicians
    will dance to their tune and take bribes.

    Americans live in the stone-age. They are not entitled to discuss these
    issues.

    --
    Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joerg Lorenz@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 13 22:39:52 2022
    Am 13.07.22 um 22:32 schrieb Bobbie Sellers:
    On 7/13/22 12:45, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
    Am 13.07.22 um 20:00 schrieb Albert Arkwright:
    There is nothing anybody can do when multi-billionaires own this
    planet!. Their argument is they are creating jobs so the politicians
    will dance to their tune and take bribes.

    Americans live in the stone-age. They are not entitled to discuss these
    issues.


    Another Fascist who does not understand the importance of Freedom of Speech. Who fails to comprehend the anarchic nature of
    Usenet reality.

    You have no clue what you are talking about:

    Content-Language: en-US



    --
    Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@21:1/5 to Joerg Lorenz on Wed Jul 13 13:32:33 2022
    On 7/13/22 12:45, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
    Am 13.07.22 um 20:00 schrieb Albert Arkwright:
    On 12/07/2022 10:18, jjb wrote:
    Just wait. After the EU court has had its final say, there won't BE any >>> devices with this setting (at least not in the EU). To remind you: in
    the past Microsoft changed its policies after some billion dollar fines... >> EU is corrupt. Look at Macron who took bribes from Uber and some
    officials at the EU were also bribed by Uber.

    There is nothing anybody can do when multi-billionaires own this
    planet!. Their argument is they are creating jobs so the politicians
    will dance to their tune and take bribes.

    Americans live in the stone-age. They are not entitled to discuss these issues.


    Another Fascist who does not understand the importance of Freedom of Speech. Who fails to comprehend the anarchic nature of
    Usenet reality.
    All Americans and Europeans are living in delusions that
    they can use up the planet before it gets to hot to survive.
    Do you even know what Stone Age means? If you did
    you would not use it to disparage anyone.


    bliss - brought to you by the power and ease of PCLinuxOS
    the Perfect Computer Linus Operating System(for me),
    and a minor case of hypergraphia.

    --
    bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)