• Online talk: "Federation and moderation: Usenet as the original decentr

    From Usenet Big-8 Management Board@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 14 17:59:05 2023
    XPost: news.groups

    Members of the Usenet Big-8 Management Board [1] will be delivering a
    talk, "Federation and moderation: Usenet as the original decentralized
    social network", at the hybrid LibrePlanet 2023 conference [2].

    The talk will be given online on Sunday, 19 March 2023 from 13:35 EDT
    (UTC-4) to 14:20 EDT. We will give an introduction to how Usenet works, compare it to more recent forms of social media, and discuss what we can
    learn from Usenet.

    LibrePlanet is a conference about software freedom, and brings together software developers, law and policy experts, activists, students, and
    computer users to learn skills, celebrate free software accomplishments,
    and face upcoming challenges together. Newcomers are always welcome.

    The conference is free to attend online. Please register [3] in advance.

    [1]: https://www.big-8.org/

    [2]: https://libreplanet.org/2023/

    [3]: https://my.fsf.org/civicrm/event/info?reset=1&id=106

    --
    Usenet Big-8 Management Board
    https://www.big-8.org/
    [email protected]

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  • From G.K.@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 14 19:32:22 2023
    XPost: news.groups

    On 3/14/23 18:59, Usenet Big-8 Management Board wrote:
    Members of the Usenet Big-8 Management Board [1] will be delivering a
    talk, "Federation and moderation: Usenet as the original decentralized
    social network", at the hybrid LibrePlanet 2023 conference [2].

    The talk will be given online on Sunday, 19 March 2023 from 13:35 EDT
    (UTC-4) to 14:20 EDT.  We will give an introduction to how Usenet works, compare it to more recent forms of social media, and discuss what we can learn from Usenet.

    LibrePlanet is a conference about software freedom, and brings together software developers, law and policy experts, activists, students, and computer users to learn skills, celebrate free software accomplishments,
    and face upcoming challenges together. Newcomers are always welcome.

    The conference is free to attend online. Please register [3] in advance.

      [1]: https://www.big-8.org/

      [2]: https://libreplanet.org/2023/

      [3]: https://my.fsf.org/civicrm/event/info?reset=1&id=106


    Have you considered recording the talks? Youtube bingers and podcast
    junkies would find their way to it afterwards.

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 14 18:36:58 2023
    XPost: news.groups

    On 3/14/23 5:59 PM, Usenet Big-8 Management Board wrote:
    Members of the Usenet Big-8 Management Board [1] will be delivering a
    talk, "Federation and moderation: Usenet as the original decentralized
    social network", at the hybrid LibrePlanet 2023 conference [2].

    Per [2]:

    March 18-19, 2023.

    Per [3]:

    Registration is closed for this event

    &
    Registration is temporarily closed. It will reopen on Friday, March
    17th at 17:00 EST.

    It seems like registration being (temporary) closed until the day before
    the event is ... questionable at best.

    The talk will be given online on Sunday, 19 March 2023 from 13:35 EDT
    (UTC-4) to 14:20 EDT.  We will give an introduction to how Usenet works, compare it to more recent forms of social media, and discuss what we can learn from Usenet.

    Will the talk(s) be recorded?

    Will you please enlighten us as to what "moderation" is in the talks
    context? It seems like it could easily be conflated with censorship.

    I don't know how free from moderation ~> censorship that Usenet is. I
    think that it's better than some other things. But like all things,
    each news server / network can censor the articles that will be
    accepted. -- Sure, people can vote with the proverbial feet of using a different news server / service. I agree that in general, Usenet's
    flood fill mechanism makes it difficult to completely cut off articles.
    But it's not the panacea that some people want it to be.

    My concern is mostly around accidental mis-statements that cause people
    to believe something that's incorrect and the likely brouhaha that may
    result.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From =?UTF-8?B?8J+YiSBHb29kIEd1eSDwn5iJ?@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 15 01:00:00 2023
    XPost: news.groups

    This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
    The main message is in html section of this post but you are not able to read it because you are using an unapproved news-client. Please try these links to amuse youself:

    <https://i.imgur.com/Fk6rn62.png>
    <https://i.imgur.com/Mxpx9bh.png>
    <https://i.imgur.com/8y9HXmL.png>




    --
    https://contact.mainsite.tk

    <html>
    <head>
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/03/2023 00:32, G.K. wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:tur3mc$k88$[email protected]"><br>
    Have you considered recording the talks? Youtube bingers and
    podcast junkies would find their way to it afterwards. <br>
    <br>
    </blockquote>
    You must be joking mate. Richard Stallman hates YouTube, Amazon,
    Google, Microsoft or anything that makes money by selling software
    or services. Get real.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="top">Arrest</div>
    <div class="bottom">Dictator Putin</div>
    <br>
    <div class="top">We Stand</div>
    <div class="bottom">With Ukraine</div>
    <br>
    <div class="top border1">Stop Putin</div>
    <div class="bottom border">Ukraine Under Attack</div>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://contact.mainsite.tk">https://contact.mainsite.tk</a> </div>
    </body>
    </html>

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  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Mar 15 02:24:09 2023
    XPost: news.groups

    Usenet Big-8 Management Board <[email protected]> wrote:

    Members of the Usenet Big-8 Management Board [1] will be delivering a
    talk, "Federation and moderation: Usenet as the original decentralized
    social network", at the hybrid LibrePlanet 2023 conference [2].

    We're not a social network. We're above Facebook [spit] friend/unfriend crap.

    . . .

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  • From Tristan Miller@21:1/5 to G.K. on Tue Mar 14 21:22:37 2023
    XPost: news.groups

    Greetings.

    On 2023-03-14 18:32, G.K. wrote:
    On 3/14/23 18:59, Usenet Big-8 Management Board wrote:
    Members of the Usenet Big-8 Management Board [1] will be delivering a
    talk, "Federation and moderation: Usenet as the original decentralized
    social network", at the hybrid LibrePlanet 2023 conference [2].

    Have you considered recording the talks? Youtube bingers and podcast
    junkies would find their way to it afterwards.


    Yes, the talk will be recorded by the LibrePlanet organizers and
    published online by them shortly after the conference.

    Regards,
    Tristan

    --
    Usenet Big-8 Management Board
    https://www.big-8.org/
    [email protected]

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  • From Tristan Miller@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Tue Mar 14 21:33:25 2023
    XPost: news.groups

    Greetings.

    On 2023-03-14 18:36, Grant Taylor wrote:
    It seems like registration being (temporary) closed until the day before
    the event is ... questionable at best.


    Yeah -- I'm not sure what's up with that. Perhaps they are having
    technical difficulties. I don't believe anything like that happened at
    last year's LibrePlanet. In any case, ISTR registration was only
    requested, not mandatory, last year, so the same may be true this year.
    If you're unwilling or unable to register in time, you might find it
    possible to watch the talks live anyway.

    The talk will be given online on Sunday, 19 March 2023 from 13:35 EDT
    (UTC-4) to 14:20 EDT.  We will give an introduction to how Usenet
    works, compare it to more recent forms of social media, and discuss
    what we can learn from Usenet.

    Will the talk(s) be recorded?


    Yes, our talk (and probably most or all other talks at LibrePlanet) will
    be recorded and published online after the conference.

    Will you please enlighten us as to what "moderation" is in the talks context?  It seems like it could easily be conflated with censorship.


    We briefly describe how moderated newsgroups work, some of the problems
    that Usenet's moderation system solves, and some of the problems that
    Usenet's moderation system creates. We separately discuss the issue of censorship in Usenet versus censorship in centralized social media networks.

    The rest of the points you raise in your post are all valid ones, and
    ones that we're aware of. Of course, it's possible to have a very long
    and intricate discussion about censorship and Usenet, but since this is
    only one of many topics we cover in the 40-minute talk, and because
    we're pitching it mostly at people who aren't already familiar with
    Usenet, we won't be going into too much detail.

    Regards,
    Tristan

    --
    Usenet Big-8 Management Board
    https://www.big-8.org/
    [email protected]

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  • From Tristan Miller@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Tue Mar 14 21:41:49 2023
    XPost: news.groups

    Greetings.

    On 2023-03-14 20:24, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    We're not a social network. We're above Facebook [spit] friend/unfriend crap.


    Yes, Usenet is not a "social network" in the way the term is commonly understood today, and we do describe the distinctions -- including the
    notion of "friending" -- in the talk. But at least in academic circles,
    Usenet had been studied as a "social network" (using that exact term,
    albeit in a more generic sense) years before Facebook and its ilk existed.

    Regards,
    Tristan

    --
    Usenet Big-8 Management Board
    https://www.big-8.org/
    [email protected]

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  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to Tristan Miller on Wed Mar 15 03:52:25 2023
    XPost: news.groups

    Tristan Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2023-03-14 20:24, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

    We're not a social network. We're above Facebook [spit] friend/unfriend crap.

    Yes, Usenet is not a "social network" in the way the term is commonly >understood today, and we do describe the distinctions -- including the
    notion of "friending" -- in the talk. But at least in academic circles, >Usenet had been studied as a "social network" (using that exact term,
    albeit in a more generic sense) years before Facebook and its ilk existed.

    We're just Usenet.

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  • From Stefan Ram@21:1/5 to Theo on Wed Mar 15 11:14:01 2023
    XPost: news.groups

    Theo <[email protected]> writes:
    This sounds like it'll be a good talk - there's not much been written >recently (in the last couple of decades) about the tech/sociology interplay >of Usenet, and lessons for the wider internet.

    "The complexity of interaction analysis on Internet fora",
    Wouter Roose, 2015:

    |The data used for the research section of this dissertation
    |was gathered from the following two Google Groups fora, which
    |are freely accessible to anyone with a Google account:
    |1. alt.usage.english
    ...
    |2. de.etc.sprache.deutsch
    .

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Tristan Miller on Wed Mar 15 10:38:32 2023
    XPost: news.groups

    Tristan Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
    Greetings.

    On 2023-03-14 18:32, G.K. wrote:
    On 3/14/23 18:59, Usenet Big-8 Management Board wrote:
    Members of the Usenet Big-8 Management Board [1] will be delivering a
    talk, "Federation and moderation: Usenet as the original decentralized
    social network", at the hybrid LibrePlanet 2023 conference [2].

    Have you considered recording the talks? Youtube bingers and podcast junkies would find their way to it afterwards.


    Yes, the talk will be recorded by the LibrePlanet organizers and
    published online by them shortly after the conference.

    Please do post the link when it's available.

    This sounds like it'll be a good talk - there's not much been written
    recently (in the last couple of decades) about the tech/sociology interplay
    of Usenet, and lessons for the wider internet.

    Theo

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  • From Tristan Miller@21:1/5 to Theo on Wed Mar 15 08:47:11 2023
    XPost: news.groups

    Greetings.

    On 2023-03-15 04:38, Theo wrote:
    Tristan Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2023-03-14 18:32, G.K. wrote:
    On 3/14/23 18:59, Usenet Big-8 Management Board wrote:
    Members of the Usenet Big-8 Management Board [1] will be delivering a
    talk, "Federation and moderation: Usenet as the original decentralized >>>> social network", at the hybrid LibrePlanet 2023 conference [2].

    Have you considered recording the talks? Youtube bingers and podcast
    junkies would find their way to it afterwards.

    Yes, the talk will be recorded by the LibrePlanet organizers and
    published online by them shortly after the conference.

    Please do post the link when it's available.


    OK, I'll try to remember to follow up here with a link.

    This sounds like it'll be a good talk - there's not much been written recently (in the last couple of decades) about the tech/sociology interplay of Usenet, and lessons for the wider internet.


    You might be interested in the talk I gave at last year's LibrePlanet
    [1], as well as an article/interview I co-authored in the latest issue
    of Internet Histories [2]. These go into a lot more detail about the technical/social interplay aspect of Usenet, in contrast to this year's LibrePlanet talk, which is more of an overview of Usenet aimed at a
    general audience not already familiar with the network. The Internet
    Histories article was made Open Access for a limited time by the
    publisher; if you find it's now behind a paywall, send me an e-mail and
    I'll send you a preprint.

    Regards,
    Tristan


    [1]: Tristan Miller. Revitalizing Usenet. Talk at LibrePlanet 2022, 19
    March 2022. https://framatube.org/w/cnVrAigLdumUSpYPkuU7v4 https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/revitalizing-usenet/

    [2]: Tristan Miller, Camille Paloque-Bergès, and Avery Dame-Griff.
    Remembering Netizens: An interview with Ronda Hauben, co-author of
    Netizens: On the history and impact of Usenet and the Internet (1997).
    Internet Histories: Digital Technology, Culture and Society, 7(1):76–98, 2022. ISSN 2470-1483. DOI: 10.1080/24701475.2022.2123120.

    --
    Usenet Big-8 Management Board
    https://www.big-8.org/
    [email protected]

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Tristan Miller on Wed Mar 15 11:10:18 2023
    XPost: news.groups

    On 3/14/23 9:33 PM, Tristan Miller wrote:
    Greetings.

    Hi Tristan,

    Yeah -- I'm not sure what's up with that.

    I'm going to apply a form of Hanlon's razor and assume that something is
    not working the way that people want it to.

    Yes, our talk (and probably most or all other talks at LibrePlanet) will
    be recorded and published online after the conference.

    Cool.

    We briefly describe how moderated newsgroups work, some of the problems
    that Usenet's moderation system solves, and some of the problems that Usenet's moderation system creates.  We separately discuss the issue of censorship in Usenet versus censorship in centralized social media
    networks.

    Ok, that makes more sense.

    The rest of the points you raise in your post are all valid ones, and
    ones that we're aware of.  Of course, it's possible to have a very long
    and intricate discussion about censorship and Usenet, but since this is
    only one of many topics we cover in the 40-minute talk, and because
    we're pitching it mostly at people who aren't already familiar with
    Usenet, we won't be going into too much detail.

    It sounds more like you're giving a State of the Usenet type talk and
    not as much a here's how we propose to fix Usenet type talk which I
    incorrectly assumed.

    Thank you for the clarification Tristan.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From Christian Mumford@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 26 07:18:40 2023
    TOP POST! I agree with everything Good Guy wrote in his post! Time to see internet conscious people online like the old days! regards, Christian (Norway on a Windows laptop)


    On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:50:00 AM UTC+1, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
    On 15/03/2023 00:32, G.K. wrote:

    Have you considered recording the talks? Youtube bingers and podcast junkies would find their way to it afterwards.
    You must be joking mate. Richard Stallman hates YouTube, Amazon, Google, Microsoft or anything that makes money by selling software or services. Get real.


    Arrest
    Dictator Putin

    We Stand
    With Ukraine

    Stop Putin
    Ukraine Under Attack



    --
    https://contact.mainsite.tk

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  • From Tristan Miller@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 19 14:07:33 2023
    XPost: news.groups

    Dear all,

    On 15/03/2023 00.59, Usenet Big-8 Management Board wrote:
    Members of the Usenet Big-8 Management Board [1] will be delivering a
    talk, "Federation and moderation: Usenet as the original decentralized
    social network", at the hybrid LibrePlanet 2023 conference [2].

    The talk will be given online on Sunday, 19 March 2023 from 13:35 EDT
    (UTC-4) to 14:20 EDT.  We will give an introduction to how Usenet works, compare it to more recent forms of social media, and discuss what we can learn from Usenet.


    Video and audio recordings of our talk, as well as the slides, are now available to download or to view on LibrePlanet's website <https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/federation-and-moderation-usenet-as-the-original-decentralized-social-network-slides/>,
    as well as on PeerTube <https://framatube.org/w/jJiSmtQUrZh3cizjUvoTBo>.

    Regards,
    Tristan

    --
    Usenet Big-8 Management Board
    https://www.big-8.org/
    [email protected]

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  • From Tavis Ormandy@21:1/5 to Tristan Miller on Wed Apr 19 15:04:09 2023
    On 2023-04-19, Tristan Miller wrote:
    Dear all,

    On 15/03/2023 00.59, Usenet Big-8 Management Board wrote:
    Members of the Usenet Big-8 Management Board [1] will be delivering a
    talk, "Federation and moderation: Usenet as the original decentralized
    social network", at the hybrid LibrePlanet 2023 conference [2].

    The talk will be given online on Sunday, 19 March 2023 from 13:35 EDT
    (UTC-4) to 14:20 EDT.  We will give an introduction to how Usenet works,
    compare it to more recent forms of social media, and discuss what we can
    learn from Usenet.


    Video and audio recordings of our talk, as well as the slides, are now available to download or to view on LibrePlanet's website
    <https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/federation-and-moderation-usenet-as-the-original-decentralized-social-network-slides/>,
    as well as on PeerTube <https://framatube.org/w/jJiSmtQUrZh3cizjUvoTBo>.

    Regards,
    Tristan


    Thanks Tristan, great talk. Handy having an overview I can share with
    folks interested in the topic.

    I think the discussion at the end covered a thought I've had for a
    while -- the modern "fediverse" would be better designed as web
    frontends to a usenet backend.

    You mentioned a decentralized reddit clone -- I actually read subreddits
    in slrn with my own nntp gateway! It lets me subscribe to
    reddit.programming or whatever -- it works great for me. Sadly, I've
    heard they're going to terminate free API access, so it will probably
    stop working soon :(

    Tavis.

    --
    _o) $ lynx lock.cmpxchg8b.com
    /\\ _o) _o) $ finger [email protected]
    _\_V _( ) _( ) @taviso

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  • From Sn!pe@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Tue Nov 7 02:15:53 2023
    XPost: news.groups

    Adam H. Kerman <[email protected]> wrote:

    Tristan Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2023-03-14 20:24, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

    We're not a social network. We're above Facebook [spit] friend/unfriend crap

    Yes, Usenet is not a "social network" in the way the term is commonly >understood today, and we do describe the distinctions -- including the >notion of "friending" -- in the talk. But at least in academic circles, >Usenet had been studied as a "social network" (using that exact term, >albeit in a more generic sense) years before Facebook and its ilk existed.

    We're just Usenet.

    Greetings, Group.

    Pardon me for jumping into to an old thread but I find this topic quite interesting. I've changed the Subject: I hope this is not unwelcome.

    What is Usenet?

    My favourite analogy for Usenet is that it's like a town with a number
    of pubs. Each pub has a group of regulars chatting among themselves.

    Occasionally strangers walk in, have a beer at a table, say nothing,
    then walk out. They're the lurkers. Sometimes a visitor will strike up
    a conversation at the bar, offend somebody, and be kicked out. Another
    might find a friendly ear and stay a while, perhaps come back another
    time. They're the new blood every pub needs to be viable.

    Sometimes there's no conversation to be had anywhere so that guy either
    gives up drinking or goes home to drink alone and maybe mumble to
    himself and just watch TV. If he's desperate, he might go on FarceBook
    to tell everybody about what he had for breakfast or to show his latest
    family photos.

    I'm thirsty; would anybody else here like a beer?

    --
    ^�^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator.
    My pet rock Gordon just is.

    Google Groups articles not seen unless poster is whitelisted.

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  • From Steve Bonine@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 7 10:43:17 2023
    XPost: news.groups

    Sn!pe wrote:
    ...
    What is Usenet?
    ...
    I'm thirsty; would anybody else here like a beer?

    Yes.

    I like your pub analogy. To some extent it applies to all "social
    media" systems. And for those who get their panties in a wad about
    applying "social media" to Usenet ... tough. Some of us have a much
    more broad definition of that term than equating it with Facebook and
    its ilk.

    In my mind, "social media" started with email, and took a step up with listserv. Then there were a bunch of steps to get to the place we are
    today, including bulletin board systems, proprietary forums like
    CompuServe, the ever-popular AOL, and web-based misinformation farms
    that we have today.

    Usenet was certainly one of many steps from the days of hand-written
    letters to pen pals to where we are today. Technology moves on,
    building on concepts that morph into different concepts. One day we
    will be saying that about Facebook, although it rather boggles my mind
    to consider what will be the norm by then.

    By the way, this thread and the many similar ones recently posted don't
    belong in news.groups, which is supposed to be for discussing newsgroups themselves. I suppose that by posting this followup I am signing on to
    the "more is better" philosophy where the content of "active" newsgroups
    these days is material from other sources. At least this is original
    content, even if it's in the wrong place.

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