• Re: Paleo anthropology is NOT a real science - There are NO transitiona

    From Andrew@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 2 03:34:30 2025
    XPost: sci.skeptic, alt.paranormal, alt.atheism
    XPost: alt.religion.christian

    "I will lay it on the line - there is not one such fossil for which one
    could make a watertight argument. The reason is that statements
    about ancestry and descent are not applicable in the fossil record.
    Is Archaeopteryx the ancestor of all birds? Perhaps yes, perhaps no
    there is no way of answering the question. It is easy enough to make
    up stories of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons
    why the stages should be favoured by natural selection. But such
    stories are not part of science, for there is no way of putting them to
    the test." ~ Dr. Colin Patterson, paleontologist


    "The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record
    persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary
    trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and
    nodes of their branches; the rest is inference..not the evidence
    of fossils." ~ Stephen J. Gould, paleontologist


    "Evolution requires intermediate forms between species and
    paleontology does not provide them. The gaps must therefore
    be a contingent feature of the record."
    ~ David B. Kitts, Ph.D, zoologist, paleontologist

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mitchell Holman@21:1/5 to Andrew on Tue Sep 2 13:10:29 2025
    XPost: sci.skeptic, alt.paranormal, alt.atheism
    XPost: alt.religion.christian

    "Andrew" <[email protected]> wrote in news:tKztQ.31084$6rQd.20629 @fx13.ams4:

    "I will lay it on the line - there is not one such fossil for which one
    could make a watertight argument. The reason is that statements
    about ancestry and descent are not applicable in the fossil record.
    Is Archaeopteryx the ancestor of all birds? Perhaps yes, perhaps no
    there is no way of answering the question. It is easy enough to make
    up stories of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons
    why the stages should be favoured by natural selection. But such
    stories are not part of science, for there is no way of putting them to
    the test." ~ Dr. Colin Patterson, paleontologist


    "The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record
    persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary
    trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and
    nodes of their branches; the rest is inference..not the evidence
    of fossils." ~ Stephen J. Gould, paleontologist


    "Evolution requires intermediate forms between species and
    paleontology does not provide them. The gaps must therefore
    be a contingent feature of the record."
    ~ David B. Kitts, Ph.D, zoologist, paleontologist







    Many species now going extinct may
    vanish without a fossil trace
    March 21, 2016

    The researchers were shocked to find
    that more than 85 percent of the mammal
    species at high risk of extinction lack
    a fossil record.

    Viewed from the perspective of the fossil
    record alone, the magnitude of the current
    mammal die-off thus appears markedly reduced.
    The picture may be even more distorted for
    other land-dwelling vertebrates: only 3
    percent of today's threatened bird species
    and 1.6 percent of threatened reptile species
    have a known fossil record. https://today.uic.edu/many-species-now-going-extinct-may-vanish-without- a-fossil-trace/



    If a species never gets fossilized
    can you claim it never existed?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andrew@21:1/5 to Mitchell Holman on Tue Sep 2 08:18:23 2025
    XPost: sci.skeptic, alt.paranormal, alt.atheism
    XPost: alt.religion.christian

    "Mitchell Holman" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    "Andrew" wrote:

    "I will lay it on the line - there is not one such fossil for which one
    could make a watertight argument. The reason is that statements
    about ancestry and descent are not applicable in the fossil record.
    Is Archaeopteryx the ancestor of all birds? Perhaps yes, perhaps no
    there is no way of answering the question. It is easy enough to make
    up stories of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons
    why the stages should be favoured by natural selection. But such
    stories are not part of science, for there is no way of putting them to
    the test." ~ Dr. Colin Patterson, paleontologist


    "The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record
    persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary
    trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and
    nodes of their branches; the rest is inference..not the evidence
    of fossils." ~ Stephen J. Gould, paleontologist


    "Evolution requires intermediate forms between species and
    paleontology does not provide them. The gaps must therefore
    be a contingent feature of the record."
    ~ David B. Kitts, Ph.D, zoologist, paleontologist

    Many species now going extinct may
    vanish without a fossil trace
    March 21, 2016

    The researchers were shocked to find
    that more than 85 percent of the mammal
    species at high risk of extinction lack
    a fossil record.

    Viewed from the perspective of the fossil
    record alone, the magnitude of the current
    mammal die-off thus appears markedly reduced.
    The picture may be even more distorted for
    other land-dwelling vertebrates: only 3
    percent of today's threatened bird species
    and 1.6 percent of threatened reptile species
    have a known fossil record. https://today.uic.edu/many-species-now-going-extinct-may-vanish-without- a-fossil-trace/

    If a species never gets fossilized
    can you claim it never existed?

    No, but neither could one claim that they did.
    And that does not negate the fact that there is
    no empirical evidence of transitional forms
    ever existing.

    Bottom line, you have been deceived. Which
    would not have happened if you had not been
    so gullible.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mitchell Holman@21:1/5 to Andrew on Tue Sep 2 15:30:57 2025
    XPost: sci.skeptic, alt.paranormal, alt.atheism
    XPost: alt.religion.christian

    "Andrew" <[email protected]> wrote in news:CUDtQ.32963$[email protected]:

    "Mitchell Holman" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    "Andrew" wrote:

    "I will lay it on the line - there is not one such fossil for which
    one could make a watertight argument. The reason is that statements
    about ancestry and descent are not applicable in the fossil record.
    Is Archaeopteryx the ancestor of all birds? Perhaps yes, perhaps no
    there is no way of answering the question. It is easy enough to make
    up stories of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons
    why the stages should be favoured by natural selection. But such
    stories are not part of science, for there is no way of putting them
    to
    the test." ~ Dr. Colin Patterson, paleontologist


    "The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record
    persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary
    trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and
    nodes of their branches; the rest is inference..not the evidence
    of fossils." ~ Stephen J. Gould, paleontologist


    "Evolution requires intermediate forms between species and
    paleontology does not provide them. The gaps must therefore
    be a contingent feature of the record."
    ~ David B. Kitts, Ph.D, zoologist, paleontologist

    Many species now going extinct may
    vanish without a fossil trace
    March 21, 2016

    The researchers were shocked to find
    that more than 85 percent of the mammal
    species at high risk of extinction lack
    a fossil record.

    Viewed from the perspective of the fossil
    record alone, the magnitude of the current
    mammal die-off thus appears markedly reduced.
    The picture may be even more distorted for
    other land-dwelling vertebrates: only 3
    percent of today's threatened bird species
    and 1.6 percent of threatened reptile species
    have a known fossil record.
    https://today.uic.edu/many-species-now-going-extinct-may-vanish-withou
    t- a-fossil-trace/

    If a species never gets fossilized
    can you claim it never existed?

    No, but neither could one claim that they did.
    And that does not negate the fact that there is
    no empirical evidence of transitional forms
    ever existing.


    Wrong.





    People who cite this "no fossils"
    thing are clearly unaware how rare
    fossiliation is and how species can
    come and go unrecorded. Indeed, if
    a mass extinction happened today
    there would be no fossils left of
    us or the animals around us. https://www.science.org/content/article/most-species-disappear-today- will-leave-no-trace-fossil-record



    There are no fossils of Chimpanzees.
    Does that mean they don't exist? Of
    course not, they just live in an
    environment that doesn't create fossils.
    Ditto for a huge number of species,
    hence the term ghost lineage. We know
    that a species can exist for millions
    of years without leaving a single
    fossil, like the Coelacanth. 80 million
    years of no fossilization, yet we know
    they were around because they still exist. https://ucmp.berkeley.edu/taxa/verts/archosaurs/ghost_lineages.php

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andrew@21:1/5 to Dawn Flood on Tue Sep 2 09:17:31 2025
    XPost: sci.skeptic, alt.paranormal, alt.atheism
    XPost: alt.religion.christian

    "Dawn Flood" wrote in message news:10972c0$iuqh$[email protected]...
    Andrew wrote:
    "Mitchell Holman" wrote:
    "Andrew" wrote:
    "I will lay it on the line - there is not one such fossil for which
    one could make a watertight argument. The reason is that statements
    about ancestry and descent are not applicable in the fossil record.
    Is Archaeopteryx the ancestor of all birds? Perhaps yes, perhaps no
    there is no way of answering the question. It is easy enough to make
    up stories of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons
    why the stages should be favoured by natural selection. But such
    stories are not part of science, for there is no way of putting them to >>>> the test." ~ Dr. Colin Patterson, paleontologist

    "The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record
    persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees
    that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of
    their branches; the rest is inference..not the evidence of
    fossils." ~ Stephen J. Gould, paleontologist

    "Evolution requires intermediate forms between species and
    paleontology does not provide them. The gaps must therefore be a
    contingent feature of the record."
    ~ David B. Kitts, Ph.D, zoologist, paleontologist

    Many species now going extinct may vanish without a fossil trace
    March 21, 2016

    The researchers were shocked to find that more than 85 percent of the
    mammal species at high risk of extinction lack a fossil record.
    Viewed from the perspective of the fossil record alone, the magnitude
    of the current mammal die-off thus appears markedly reduced. The
    picture may be even more distorted for other land-dwelling
    vertebrates: only 3 percent of today's threatened bird species and 1.6
    percent of threatened reptile species have a known fossil record.
    https://today.uic.edu/many-species-now-going-extinct-may-vanish-without- >>> a-fossil-trace/

    If a species never gets fossilized can you claim it never existed?

    No, but neither could one claim that they did. And that does not negate
    the fact that there is no empirical evidence of transitional forms
    ever existing.

    Bottom line, you have been deceived. Which
    would not have happened if you had not been
    so gullible.


    Andrew,

    Here are two neat little books; I've posted about these here before, but you'll never read either:

    https://nap.nationalacademies.org/catalog/1886/science-and-creationism-a-view-from-the-national-academy-of

    with an updated version:

    https://nap.nationalacademies.org/catalog/6024/science-and-creationism-a-view-from-the-national-academy-of

    They are both free, of course, but I doubt that you will click either link.

    If you send me a link, I will certainly go to it.

    So what about them do you want to discuss?

    They cite evidences for evolution which are
    true.

    But their origins model "excludes a priori "
    the possibility of an intelligent causation.

    For anyone, or any organization to exclude
    anything as a possible answer to a question
    is evidence that they are biased, and are not
    interested in the truth.

    And if you are interested in truth, you must
    go beyond that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Kenito Benito@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 3 00:41:28 2025
    XPost: sci.skeptic, alt.paranormal, alt.atheism
    XPost: alt.religion.christian

    On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 09:17:31 -0700, "Andrew" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    "Dawn Flood" wrote in message news:10972c0$iuqh$[email protected]...
    Andrew wrote:
    "Mitchell Holman" wrote:
    "Andrew" wrote:
    "I will lay it on the line - there is not one such fossil for which
    one could make a watertight argument. The reason is that statements
    about ancestry and descent are not applicable in the fossil record.
    Is Archaeopteryx the ancestor of all birds? Perhaps yes, perhaps no
    there is no way of answering the question. It is easy enough to make >>>>> up stories of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons >>>>> why the stages should be favoured by natural selection. But such
    stories are not part of science, for there is no way of putting them to >>>>> the test." ~ Dr. Colin Patterson, paleontologist

    "The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record
    persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees >>>>> that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of
    their branches; the rest is inference..not the evidence of
    fossils." ~ Stephen J. Gould, paleontologist

    "Evolution requires intermediate forms between species and
    paleontology does not provide them. The gaps must therefore be a
    contingent feature of the record."
    ~ David B. Kitts, Ph.D, zoologist, paleontologist

    Many species now going extinct may vanish without a fossil trace
    March 21, 2016

    The researchers were shocked to find that more than 85 percent of the
    mammal species at high risk of extinction lack a fossil record.
    Viewed from the perspective of the fossil record alone, the magnitude
    of the current mammal die-off thus appears markedly reduced. The
    picture may be even more distorted for other land-dwelling
    vertebrates: only 3 percent of today's threatened bird species and 1.6 >>>> percent of threatened reptile species have a known fossil record.
    https://today.uic.edu/many-species-now-going-extinct-may-vanish-without- >>>> a-fossil-trace/

    If a species never gets fossilized can you claim it never existed?

    No, but neither could one claim that they did. And that does not negate
    the fact that there is no empirical evidence of transitional forms
    ever existing.

    Bottom line, you have been deceived. Which
    would not have happened if you had not been
    so gullible.


    Andrew,

    Here are two neat little books; I've posted about these here before, but
    you'll never read either:

    https://nap.nationalacademies.org/catalog/1886/science-and-creationism-a-view-from-the-national-academy-of

    with an updated version:

    https://nap.nationalacademies.org/catalog/6024/science-and-creationism-a-view-from-the-national-academy-of

    They are both free, of course, but I doubt that you will click either link.

    If you send me a link, I will certainly go to it.


    Cool. Dawn sent them in the post you replied to, so enjoy.

    [Snip the remainder as I have no comment]

    --
    Kenito Benito
    Strategic Writer,
    Psychotronic World Dominator.
    And FEMA camp counselor.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)