• Alternative for remote desktop connection

    From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 1 16:11:14 2025
    Hi all,

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11 laptops.
    To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops I use
    RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have to pay
    for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a few
    connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes it
    can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    With kind regards,
    Fokke Nauta

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Alan K.@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Fri Aug 1 10:28:48 2025
    On 8/1/25 10:11 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    Hi all,

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11 laptops. To have a remote
    connection with the other pc's and laptops I use RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but
    since last year I have to pay for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a
    few connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes it can't make a
    connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    With kind regards,
    Fokke Nauta

    I've always used Teamviewer. You can get the remote if you are the only one wanting to
    control machines, and then there is a quick support for those who you support (your other
    PCs).

    I like it cause I'm on Linux and there is a version for it. I have a login/account and I
    can save all you remote connections in my account, like an addressbook. Handy to a quick
    dial.

    Sounds asinine but I used to connect to my wife's pc, 3 ft next to me. It was easier
    than unplugging her laptop, handing over the end table, along with the mouse, putting my
    laptop down etc etc. just for a 1 minute fix.

    --
    Linux Mint 22.1, Thunderbird 128.13.0esr, Mozilla Firefox 141.0
    Alan K.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From T@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Fri Aug 1 09:02:26 2025
    On 8/1/25 7:11 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    Hi all,

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11 laptops.
    To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops I use
    RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have to pay
    for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a few
    connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes it can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    With kind regards,
    Fokke Nauta

    Paid:
    zoho assist
    any desk

    Free:
    help wire
    RDP that comes with Win Pro

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From T@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 1 09:13:05 2025
    On 8/1/25 9:02 AM, T wrote:
    On 8/1/25 7:11 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    Hi all,

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11
    laptops. To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops I
    use RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have to
    pay for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a few
    connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes
    it can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    With kind regards,
    Fokke Nauta

    Paid:
       zoho assist
       any desk

    I believe both are free for personal use


    Free:
       help wire
       RDP that comes with Win Pro

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Graham J@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Fri Aug 1 16:43:59 2025
    Fokke Nauta wrote:
    Hi all,

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11 laptops.
    To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops I use
    RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have to pay
    for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a few
    connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes it can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    I've used tightvnc from <https://www.tightvnc.com/>

    It works between computers on my LAN, and to any remote computer that I
    have configured for access using a LAN-to-LAN VPN.


    --
    Graham J

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Fri Aug 1 12:06:55 2025
    Fokke Nauta <[email protected]> wrote:

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11 laptops.
    To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops I use
    RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have to pay
    for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a few
    connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes it can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?

    TightVNC
    Free, open source.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TightVNC
    https://www.tightvnc.com/

    I haven't used any VNC variant for well over a decade. I wasn't
    connecting just between intranetwork hosts, but mostly wanted access
    across the Internet, like remoting to my home desktop PC with a laptop
    while on vacation. Had to punch a hole in the router's firewall to
    forward incoming connects to my home PC running a VNC server. I had
    dynamic IP addresses, so I had to use a DDNS (Dynamic DNS) service, like
    No-IP, OpenDNS, DynDNS, to do the DNS lookup to use a hostname for my
    home PC instead, and a DNS updater client to keep the DDNS service
    updated with whatever was my current dynamic IP address. I got a free
    DDNS account at OpenDNS and used their DNS updater client. Too much
    work overall.

    TeamViewer is easier to setup. No having to punch through firewalls,
    and no DDNS setup. Despite employing for personal use, sometimes Team
    Viewer flags you as a commericial user, and can disable your account.

    If you're using Chrome for your web browser, there is Chrome Remote
    Desktop. I've never used it. While I use Edge which is a Chromium
    variant, I don't have Chrome, so no experience with this. I'm guessing
    you will need a Google account.

    https://remotedesktop.google.com

    Helpwire has a free tier.

    https://www.helpwire.app/pricing/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From s|b@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Fri Aug 1 18:41:03 2025
    On Fri, 1 Aug 2025 16:11:14 +0200, Fokke Nauta wrote:

    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?

    I haven't used it myself, but have you tried NoMachine?

    <https://www.nomachine.com/>

    --
    s|b

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Alan K.@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Fri Aug 1 13:49:44 2025
    On 8/1/25 1:33 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
    "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]> wrote:
    Huh? --------.
    ... |
    But isn't there something built-in to Windows, from 7 or 10 onwards?--
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Eve had an Apple, Adam had a Wang...

    Tbird, or many an extension, screwed up where it positioned the
    signature delimiter (-- \n). Went at the end of a non-blank line
    instead of at column 1 of an otherwise blank line. Normally I hide sigblocks, but yours was not properly delineated.

    I think he just ran his typing into the sig.
    I do it a lot. My sig shows in red and when it doesn't then I know I've typed into it and
    I ctrl+Z back out.

    --
    Linux Mint 22.1, Thunderbird 128.13.0esr, Mozilla Firefox 141.0
    Alan K.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 1 12:33:03 2025
    "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]> wrote:
    Huh? --------.
    ... |
    But isn't there something built-in to Windows, from 7 or 10 onwards?--
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Eve had an Apple, Adam had a Wang...

    Tbird, or many an extension, screwed up where it positioned the
    signature delimiter (-- \n). Went at the end of a non-blank line
    instead of at column 1 of an otherwise blank line. Normally I hide
    sigblocks, but yours was not properly delineated.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Alan K. on Fri Aug 1 18:19:19 2025
    On 2025/8/1 15:28:48, Alan K. wrote:
    On 8/1/25 10:11 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote:

    []

    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    With kind regards,
    Fokke Nauta

    I've always used Teamviewer. You can get the remote if you are the only one wanting to
    control machines, and then there is a quick support for those who you support (your other
    PCs).

    []


    I second TeamViewer (free for non-commercial use). As VLH says, it
    sometimes flags you as a commercial user, but if you follow their
    instructions you can appeal and they'll unblock you.

    But isn't there something built-in to Windows, from 7 or 10 onwards?--
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Eve had an Apple, Adam had a Wang...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to Alan K. on Fri Aug 1 20:45:10 2025
    On 01/08/2025 16:28, Alan K. wrote:
    On 8/1/25 10:11 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    Hi all,

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11
    laptops. To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops I
    use RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have to
    pay for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a few
    connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes
    it can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    With kind regards,
    Fokke Nauta

    I've always used Teamviewer.   You can get the remote if you are the
    only one wanting to control machines, and then there is a quick support
    for those who you support (your other PCs).

    I like it cause I'm on Linux and there is a version for it.   I have a login/account and I can save all you remote connections in my account,
    like an addressbook.  Handy to a quick dial.

    Sounds asinine but I used to connect to my wife's pc, 3 ft next to me.
    It was easier than unplugging her laptop, handing over the end table,
    along with the mouse, putting my laptop down etc etc. just for a 1
    minute fix.


    Thanks.
    I used Teamviewer for a person on a distance. It worked well. Perhaps I
    should use it for the pc's and laptops in my house? I'll give it a try!

    Fokke

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to Graham J on Fri Aug 1 20:47:51 2025
    On 01/08/2025 17:43, Graham J wrote:
    Fokke Nauta wrote:
    Hi all,

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11
    laptops. To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops I
    use RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have to
    pay for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a few
    connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes
    it can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    I've used tightvnc from <https://www.tightvnc.com/>

    It works between computers on my LAN, and to any remote computer that I
    have configured for access using a LAN-to-LAN VPN.


    Thanks.

    I'll have a look at it.
    I don't know this!

    Fokke

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Fri Aug 1 20:54:20 2025
    On 01/08/2025 19:06, VanguardLH wrote:
    Fokke Nauta <[email protected]> wrote:

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11 laptops.
    To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops I use
    RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have to pay
    for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a few
    connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes it
    can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?

    TightVNC
    Free, open source.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TightVNC
    https://www.tightvnc.com/

    I haven't used any VNC variant for well over a decade. I wasn't
    connecting just between intranetwork hosts, but mostly wanted access
    across the Internet, like remoting to my home desktop PC with a laptop
    while on vacation. Had to punch a hole in the router's firewall to
    forward incoming connects to my home PC running a VNC server. I had
    dynamic IP addresses, so I had to use a DDNS (Dynamic DNS) service, like No-IP, OpenDNS, DynDNS, to do the DNS lookup to use a hostname for my
    home PC instead, and a DNS updater client to keep the DDNS service
    updated with whatever was my current dynamic IP address. I got a free
    DDNS account at OpenDNS and used their DNS updater client. Too much
    work overall.

    TeamViewer is easier to setup. No having to punch through firewalls,
    and no DDNS setup. Despite employing for personal use, sometimes Team
    Viewer flags you as a commericial user, and can disable your account.

    If you're using Chrome for your web browser, there is Chrome Remote
    Desktop. I've never used it. While I use Edge which is a Chromium
    variant, I don't have Chrome, so no experience with this. I'm guessing
    you will need a Google account.

    https://remotedesktop.google.com

    Helpwire has a free tier.

    https://www.helpwire.app/pricing/

    Thanks,

    I will have a look at TightVCN.
    I'm curious.

    I use Chrome, but I don't know its remote desktop.

    Fokke

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 1 20:49:26 2025
    On 01/08/2025 18:41, s|b wrote:
    On Fri, 1 Aug 2025 16:11:14 +0200, Fokke Nauta wrote:

    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?

    I haven't used it myself, but have you tried NoMachine?

    <https://www.nomachine.com/>


    No, I don't know it. But I'll have a look at it.

    Fokke

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Fri Aug 1 21:11:06 2025
    On 2025/8/1 18:33:3, VanguardLH wrote:
    "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]> wrote:
    Huh? --------.
    ... |
    But isn't there something built-in to Windows, from 7 or 10 onwards?--
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Eve had an Apple, Adam had a Wang...

    Tbird, or many an extension, screwed up where it positioned the
    signature delimiter (-- \n). Went at the end of a non-blank line
    instead of at column 1 of an otherwise blank line. Normally I hide sigblocks, but yours was not properly delineated.

    I know. TBird's compose editor is horrible at what it does with
    newlines. I _usually_ notice before sending, but not always.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Cumulatively, however, they do get my goat, on my wick and up my nose,
    to the extent I am angry enough to stick a wick up a goat's nose and to
    hell with the consequences. - Eddie Mair, RT 2016/2/27-3/4

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Fri Aug 1 15:26:28 2025
    Fokke Nauta <[email protected]> wrote:

    I use Chrome, but I don't know its remote desktop.

    Yeah, Chrome's web site (https://remotedesktop.google.com/) is pretty
    much worthless to figure out how to use it. You have to login to a
    Google account (by first clicking on either "Access my computer" or
    "Share my screen" buttons - there is no login button). I don't have
    Chrome, it is an extension you install into Chrome, but I don't know if
    their extension works in Edge.

    https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/chrome-remote-desktop/inomeogfingihgjfjlpeplalcfajhgai

    Maybe after installing their extension they then provide links to help articles, but I'm not betting on them providing helpful documentation.

    Or, you have to search Youtube to find tutorials, like:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ab8UGr4E4

    While you need a Google account to use Chrome Remote Desktop, I don't
    know if the other endpoint must be logged into the same [or different]
    Google account to show the screen of one host on the other host. My
    guess for security purposes, especially to prevent spying, is you need
    to log into the same Google account on both endpoint hosts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From T@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Fri Aug 1 17:32:29 2025
    On 8/1/25 7:11 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    Hi all,

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11 laptops.
    To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops I use
    RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have to pay
    for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a few
    connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes it can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    With kind regards,
    Fokke Nauta


    Have you though of using Ultra VNC? It is
    free and not a lot different from Real VNC.

    http://www.uvnc.com/downloads/ultravnc.html

    WARNING: Lots of JUNKWARE !!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Philip Herlihy@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 2 12:15:56 2025
    In article <106jmau$nkus$[email protected]>, [email protected]d says...

    Have you though of using Ultra VNC? It is
    free and not a lot different from Real VNC.

    http://www.uvnc.com/downloads/ultravnc.html

    WARNING: Lots of JUNKWARE !!



    I use UVNC to help friends when I can't use Quick Assist. I install the
    server (as a service) on their machine, but don't open a firewall port
    on their machine. Instead, I open a port on my machine (using port
    translation so the open port isn't any hint about what application it
    will get routed to) and then only run the "listening client" when I need
    to. I give the friend my IP address (or my DDNS name), and talk them
    through right-clicking the server icon in their system tray and picking
    "add new client". Works a treat.

    My only reservation about UVNC is that like a lot of free sites it
    "rents out" webpage space in an indiscriminate way, and several of the "Download Now" buttons you'll see are actually nothing to do with UVNC.
    But it's not that difficult for an experienced eye to spot which is the
    genuine link. Where necessary, I'll download the server and post it on
    Google Drive or OneDrive for my friend to download safely, and send them
    a link. Otherwise, I've used UVNC without any problems for many years,
    and would certainly recommend it.


    --
    Phil, London

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From s|b@21:1/5 to Philip Herlihy on Sat Aug 2 15:57:08 2025
    On Sat, 2 Aug 2025 12:15:56 +0100, Philip Herlihy wrote:

    I use UVNC to help friends when I can't use Quick Assist.

    I've use UltraVNC in the past, but then switched to TeamViewer, because
    it was simply easier to let the other party download QuickSupport and
    tell me the ID and password over the phone. I've downloaded QuickSupport
    to their desktop and placed it in the right corner, same everywhere.

    I recently stumbled upon RustDesk which is similar, so I'll give that a
    go in the future.

    --
    s|b

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From s|b@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 2 15:54:02 2025
    On Fri, 1 Aug 2025 17:32:29 -0700, T wrote:

    WARNING: Lots of JUNKWARE !!

    What junkware?

    --
    s|b

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From s|b@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Sat Aug 2 15:58:33 2025
    On Fri, 1 Aug 2025 20:45:10 +0200, Fokke Nauta wrote:

    I used Teamviewer for a person on a distance. It worked well. Perhaps I should use it for the pc's and laptops in my house? I'll give it a try!

    FYI it's possible you get blocked for using too many connections or
    staying connected for too long.

    --
    s|b

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Sat Aug 2 16:40:07 2025
    On 01/08/2025 16:11, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    Hi all,

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11 laptops.
    To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops I use
    RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have to pay
    for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a few
    connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes it can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    With kind regards,
    Fokke Nauta

    Thanks for your suggestions.
    I installed TightVNC. It worked well for the other pc's, but not for the
    wifi laptops. It asked for a password which I didn't know. I filled in
    the password for the user of the laptop but that didn't work.
    I uninstalled it.
    I installed UltraVNC. It didn't work. It is asking for a password. Onve
    again I filled in the password for the user of the laptop but that
    didn't work. I installed a password in the server, but filling this in
    in the viewer didn't work as well. So I unstalled this as well.

    So - I haven't got a clue.

    Fokke

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 2 15:46:01 2025
    On 2025/8/2 14:57:8, s|b wrote:
    On Sat, 2 Aug 2025 12:15:56 +0100, Philip Herlihy wrote:

    I use UVNC to help friends when I can't use Quick Assist.

    I've use UltraVNC in the past, but then switched to TeamViewer, because
    it was simply easier to let the other party download QuickSupport and

    Yes, I was going to mention that when Philip mentioned what he installed
    on their machine. the thing is, TeamViewer make it hard enough for _me_
    to find the QS download on their website - I give those I'm wanting to
    help the direct link to it when I find it (or actually send them - or
    put it somewhere and point them to it - the executable).

    tell me the ID and password over the phone. I've downloaded QuickSupport
    to their desktop and placed it in the right corner, same everywhere.

    Yes; it's much easier for them to use than the full TeamViewer, which
    gives them the ability (which they don't need) to control remotely, as
    well as be controlled. Why TV make it so hard to find, I don't know. (At
    least, that's my opinion - and it may have changed; it's a while since
    I've been to their site.)>
    I recently stumbled upon RustDesk which is similar, so I'll give that a
    go in the future.

    It puzzles me why so many of these solutions involve a third-party
    server; surely direct connection between the machines would be simpler,
    and cheaper for those providing the solution. I think there _is_
    something built into Windows, from 7 or 10 on, but the existence of all
    these alternatives suggest it's not very good; I'm surprised something
    better direct (not needing a remote server) hasn't appeared after all
    this time.Of course, all these require a system at least _somewhat_
    working at both ends. The people I used TeamViewer most with are blind,
    where it's a godsend being able to see their screen: they _can_ detect
    what's on screen via software called a screenreader, but as you can
    imagine, directing someone around via that is no fun. Last time I had to
    lead them though a Macrium restore, we used Skype - between my PC, and
    their iPhone, propped up so it could see the little monitor they keep
    for when sighted folk visit to help them with computer things! It was
    propped up sideways, and kept falling flat - and, she'd not used a mouse
    before (or since, I imagine; a mouse is of little use to a blind person,
    they only have it for visitors). [Yes, I'm sure you can use Macrium from
    the keyboard only, but I'd not learnt the keystrokes. (Still haven't.)]
    We succeeded though!
    (Using a third-party server - with logins - _does_ have the advantage
    that it gives you a sort of "address book" of the people you have helped
    in the past, so if _you_ have to use a different machine to what you
    used in the past, you don't have to scrabble around to find the
    "addresses" of the people you've helped before. But I'm sure a direct
    version could be devised to use a file you could keep on a - I was going
    to say floppy, but I suppose USB stick these days.)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    "To YOU I'm an atheist; to God, I'm the Loyal Opposition." - Woody Allen

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 2 16:35:15 2025
    On 02/08/2025 15:58, s|b wrote:
    On Fri, 1 Aug 2025 20:45:10 +0200, Fokke Nauta wrote:

    I used Teamviewer for a person on a distance. It worked well. Perhaps I
    should use it for the pc's and laptops in my house? I'll give it a try!

    FYI it's possible you get blocked for using too many connections or
    staying connected for too long.


    I guess you're right.
    I won't use it. It's not so friendly for multiple systems.

    Fokke

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From NY@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Sat Aug 2 16:29:58 2025
    On 01/08/2025 18:19, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    I second TeamViewer (free for non-commercial use). As VLH says, it
    sometimes flags you as a commercial user, but if you follow their instructions you can appeal and they'll unblock you.

    The flagged-as-commercial restriction is a right PITA. I use TeamViewer
    to access my Mum's PC to help her with any problems she may have. Every
    6-12 months, it gets flagged as commercial usage and I have to go
    through the appeals process yet again. It seems to start working again properly, but there is no proper response when I certify that it's not commercial access, to confirm that they have received my request and
    that normal service should have resumed, so I have to take it on trust
    and hope that I don't get rejected or else connected only for a few minutes.
    I use RealVNC to access computers within my house (eg laptop accessing
    desktop if I can't be arsed to go through to my study, or when accessing headless computers such as my Raspberry Pis. That works very well, and
    I've never had the system flag my usage as commercial. The only
    restriction is that you can only have three cloud-connected computers in
    an account. All Windows and Linux computers use the cloud to connect
    them, even if both client and server are on the same LAN; to remove that restriction and the three-computers restriction, you need to pay.
    Raspberry Pi computers (using the Raspberry Pi OS as opposed to any
    other Linux distro) have the server built in and it can be accessed by
    direct TCP connection; indeed at the moment their server can *only*
    connect by TCP and not by cloud, in the current version of RPiOS, due to something called Wayland, but I understand they are hoping to remove the restriction and allow cloud connections if you need to connect from
    outside the LAN. At present I have to set up port forwarding to allow
    external access to a WAN port with forwards to RealVNC's port (5700,
    IIRC) if I need to access a Pi from the outside world.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From s|b@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Sat Aug 2 17:30:07 2025
    On Sat, 2 Aug 2025 15:46:01 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    8< selective snip >8
    It puzzles me why so many of these solutions involve a third-party
    server; surely direct connection between the machines would be simpler,

    IIRC you can create that server yourself with RustDesk. I remember
    something about using Docker and place that somewhere online (for a
    fee). There's YT vids about it.

    --
    s|b

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 2 18:26:55 2025
    On 2025/8/2 16:29:58, NY wrote:
    On 01/08/2025 18:19, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    I second TeamViewer (free for non-commercial use). As VLH says, it
    sometimes flags you as a commercial user, but if you follow their
    instructions you can appeal and they'll unblock you.

    The flagged-as-commercial restriction is a right PITA. I use TeamViewer
    to access my Mum's PC to help her with any problems she may have. Every
    6-12 months, it gets flagged as commercial usage and I have to go
    through the appeals process yet again. It seems to start working again

    Though IIRR it can I think take two or three days.

    properly, but there is no proper response when I certify that it's not commercial access, to confirm that they have received my request and
    that normal service should have resumed, so I have to take it on trust

    Agreed.

    []

    them, even if both client and server are on the same LAN; to remove that restriction and the three-computers restriction, you need to pay.

    And their fees are pretty astronomical - certainly above what any
    amateur can justify. I _presume_ they _have_ done their sums, but I
    can't help thinking they'd get a _lot_ of people actually willing to pay
    a _reasonable_ amount; it is a very good product (I once tried some of
    the alternative free ones - they all needed more work and didn't work as
    well). Presumably they're afraid nearly all their
    paying-through-the-nose customers would switch if they offered anything cheaper: I just think things could be different and still profitable.

    []
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    "Bother," said Pooh, as Eeyore sneezed the crack all over Owl.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 2 18:32:54 2025
    On 2025/8/2 16:30:7, s|b wrote:
    On Sat, 2 Aug 2025 15:46:01 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    8< selective snip >8
    It puzzles me why so many of these solutions involve a third-party
    server; surely direct connection between the machines would be simpler,

    IIRC you can create that server yourself with RustDesk. I remember
    something about using Docker and place that somewhere online (for a
    fee). There's YT vids about it.

    I just don't understand (I don't really know a lot about the subject)
    why you need a third-party server (or whatever you call it) at a third
    location _at all_ (whether at e. g. TeamViewer HQ, or somewhere _you_
    pay to run); I don't understand why it can't be done with just a direct connection between the two computers. Obviously you have to set up the connection in the first place, and this (IP addresses, intermediate
    servers, etc.) is likely to change _between sessions_; maybe this
    setting-up _is_ the hard part.

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    "Bother," said Pooh, as Eeyore sneezed the crack all over Owl.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Sat Aug 2 19:53:38 2025
    On 2025-08-02 19:32, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/8/2 16:30:7, s|b wrote:
    On Sat, 2 Aug 2025 15:46:01 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    8< selective snip >8
    It puzzles me why so many of these solutions involve a third-party
    server; surely direct connection between the machines would be simpler,

    IIRC you can create that server yourself with RustDesk. I remember
    something about using Docker and place that somewhere online (for a
    fee). There's YT vids about it.

    I just don't understand (I don't really know a lot about the subject)
    why you need a third-party server (or whatever you call it) at a third location _at all_ (whether at e. g. TeamViewer HQ, or somewhere _you_
    pay to run);

    Two reasons.

    Because most people are on IP addresses that can change on a whim:
    instead you use a login at some database which doesn't change.

    Because the intermediary solves the problem of having to configure the
    router.

    It is the same basic problem when doing video conferencing, you need a
    server, at least for initiating the connection. Possibly in all cases
    the server is not involved after the initial phase.

    The server would not be needed if we used IPv6 instead.


    I don't understand why it can't be done with just a direct
    connection between the two computers. Obviously you have to set up the connection in the first place, and this (IP addresses, intermediate
    servers, etc.) is likely to change _between sessions_; maybe this
    setting-up _is_ the hard part.



    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Sat Aug 2 17:53:47 2025
    On Sat, 8/2/2025 1:32 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/8/2 16:30:7, s|b wrote:
    On Sat, 2 Aug 2025 15:46:01 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    8< selective snip >8
    It puzzles me why so many of these solutions involve a third-party
    server; surely direct connection between the machines would be simpler,

    IIRC you can create that server yourself with RustDesk. I remember
    something about using Docker and place that somewhere online (for a
    fee). There's YT vids about it.

    I just don't understand (I don't really know a lot about the subject)
    why you need a third-party server (or whatever you call it) at a third location _at all_ (whether at e. g. TeamViewer HQ, or somewhere _you_
    pay to run); I don't understand why it can't be done with just a direct connection between the two computers. Obviously you have to set up the connection in the first place, and this (IP addresses, intermediate
    servers, etc.) is likely to change _between sessions_; maybe this
    setting-up _is_ the hard part.


    It's a convenience feature.

    It makes it easier to discover the address of the endpoints.

    If you were writing your own software, you'd send emails back
    and forth between the participants when setting up a session.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Sat Aug 2 19:56:44 2025
    Fokke Nauta <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 01/08/2025 16:11, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    Hi all,

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11 laptops.
    To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops I use
    RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have to pay
    for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a few
    connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes it
    can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    With kind regards,
    Fokke Nauta

    Thanks for your suggestions.
    I installed TightVNC. It worked well for the other pc's, but not for the
    wifi laptops. It asked for a password which I didn't know. I filled in
    the password for the user of the laptop but that didn't work.
    I uninstalled it.
    I installed UltraVNC. It didn't work. It is asking for a password. Onve
    again I filled in the password for the user of the laptop but that
    didn't work. I installed a password in the server, but filling this in
    in the viewer didn't work as well. So I unstalled this as well.

    So - I haven't got a clue.

    Fokke

    The VNC clients connect to a VNC server. You have a VNC client
    installed on the remote host, and a VNC server on the local host. For
    example, you'd have a VNC client on host-A, and a VNC server on host-B.
    When you connect the client to the server, the client needs to specify
    the login password at the server.

    https://www.tightvnc.com/doc/win/TightVNC_for_Windows-Installation_and_Getting_Started.pdf
    Installation
    Register TightVNC Server as a system service (recommended)
    By default, TightVNC Server is installed as a Windows service and
    starts immediately after installation. At the end of the
    installation you will be asked about passwords for TightVNC
    Server as a service, in order to protect it from unauthorized
    access.

    You SHOULD use a password at the server to ensure that intruders don't
    get access to your host running the VNC server.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Sun Aug 3 20:36:55 2025
    On 03/08/2025 02:56, VanguardLH wrote:
    Fokke Nauta <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 01/08/2025 16:11, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    Hi all,

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11 laptops. >>> To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops I use
    RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have to pay
    for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a few
    connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes it >>> can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    With kind regards,
    Fokke Nauta

    Thanks for your suggestions.
    I installed TightVNC. It worked well for the other pc's, but not for the
    wifi laptops. It asked for a password which I didn't know. I filled in
    the password for the user of the laptop but that didn't work.
    I uninstalled it.
    I installed UltraVNC. It didn't work. It is asking for a password. Onve
    again I filled in the password for the user of the laptop but that
    didn't work. I installed a password in the server, but filling this in
    in the viewer didn't work as well. So I unstalled this as well.

    So - I haven't got a clue.

    Fokke

    The VNC clients connect to a VNC server. You have a VNC client
    installed on the remote host, and a VNC server on the local host. For example, you'd have a VNC client on host-A, and a VNC server on host-B.
    When you connect the client to the server, the client needs to specify
    the login password at the server.

    I know that. You can choose to not using passwords. As this is all in
    our home, I choosed for that.

    https://www.tightvnc.com/doc/win/TightVNC_for_Windows-Installation_and_Getting_Started.pdf
    Installation
    Register TightVNC Server as a system service (recommended)

    Ofcourse I did.

    By default, TightVNC Server is installed as a Windows service and
    starts immediately after installation. At the end of the
    installation you will be asked about passwords for TightVNC
    Server as a service, in order to protect it from unauthorized
    access.

    I choosed for not using passwords.

    You SHOULD use a password at the server to ensure that intruders don't
    get access to your host running the VNC server.

    We don't have intruders in our home.

    Fokke

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Philip Herlihy@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 3 21:07:43 2025
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...


    I installed UltraVNC. It didn't work. It is asking for a password. Onve
    again I filled in the password for the user of the laptop but that
    didn't work. I installed a password in the server, but filling this in
    in the viewer didn't work as well. So I unstalled this as well.




    With UltraVNC, you install the server as a service on the machine you
    want to support. If you right-click the server icon (system tray) I
    seem to remember there are two options to configure settings - in one of
    these you can set a password. This is useful if you want to control
    access to a machine where the connection is initiated from the client application (particularly if you're traversing the Internet to do this).
    Try setting up two machines on your local network: one server, one
    client, and fool around with it before you try opening ports and
    allowing full remote access. If you haven't set a password, try the
    "null" password (just hit Enter).

    With the arrangement I described above, connections are initiated from
    the server end, to a client running at my end. See my post for full
    details of this.

    Note that I'd normally use Quick Assist between Windows machines (10 and above). But non-technical friends have coped well with both Quick
    Assist and my way of using UltraVNC, where I talk them through right-
    clicking the server icon and entering my address.
    --
    Phil, London

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Sun Aug 3 18:11:47 2025
    Fokke Nauta <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 03/08/2025 02:56, VanguardLH wrote:
    Fokke Nauta <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 01/08/2025 16:11, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    Hi all,

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11 laptops. >>>> To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops I use
    RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have to pay >>>> for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a few
    connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes it >>>> can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    With kind regards,
    Fokke Nauta

    Thanks for your suggestions.
    I installed TightVNC. It worked well for the other pc's, but not for the >>> wifi laptops. It asked for a password which I didn't know. I filled in
    the password for the user of the laptop but that didn't work.
    I uninstalled it.
    I installed UltraVNC. It didn't work. It is asking for a password. Onve
    again I filled in the password for the user of the laptop but that
    didn't work. I installed a password in the server, but filling this in
    in the viewer didn't work as well. So I unstalled this as well.

    So - I haven't got a clue.

    Fokke

    The VNC clients connect to a VNC server. You have a VNC client
    installed on the remote host, and a VNC server on the local host. For
    example, you'd have a VNC client on host-A, and a VNC server on host-B.
    When you connect the client to the server, the client needs to specify
    the login password at the server.

    I know that. You can choose to not using passwords. As this is all in
    our home, I choosed for that.

    https://www.tightvnc.com/doc/win/TightVNC_for_Windows-Installation_and_Getting_Started.pdf
    Installation
    Register TightVNC Server as a system service (recommended)

    Ofcourse I did.

    By default, TightVNC Server is installed as a Windows service and
    starts immediately after installation. At the end of the
    installation you will be asked about passwords for TightVNC
    Server as a service, in order to protect it from unauthorized
    access.

    I choosed for not using passwords.

    You SHOULD use a password at the server to ensure that intruders don't
    get access to your host running the VNC server.

    We don't have intruders in our home.

    Then maybe when prompted for a password, you leave it blank, and hit
    Enter. The expectation when choosing not to use passwords is that you
    don't get prompted for them, but maybe not using password with TightVNC
    means you just click through the password prompt. A user reported
    "TightVNC site claims there is no default password", like blank or
    "password", also verified at:

    https://www.tightvnc.com/winst.php
    "In the default configuration, each user can have his/her own separate
    WinVNC password, bit also there is a special default password used when
    no user password is available (e.g when nobody is logged in, or if no
    user password was set). Note: there is no any predefined default
    password in TightVNC, machine-wide password is called "default" just
    because it's used when there are no user-specific passwords available."
    (They need to use a grammar and spelling checker for their docs.)

    Either there is no default password, and you have to specify one, or
    maybe they're trying to say the default password is "default".

    It was unclear you would use VNC only with your intranetwork hosts
    versus having access to one of your intranet hosts from outside your
    network, like from the Internet. That's highly likely why there is
    password protect on login. When you get a prompt to enter a password,
    can you click OK to ignore the prompt?

    Just not specifying a password at the server may not mean you don't need
    one to log into the server.

    https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/31281/tightvnc-to-windows-7-password

    The respondent there said a password is required.

    https://www.tightvnc.com/vncpasswd.1.php

    "Each password has to be longer than five characters". I can't see how
    a blank passwword could be longer than 5 chars.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Char Jackson@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 3 20:41:39 2025
    On Sat, 2 Aug 2025 15:46:01 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    It puzzles me why so many of these solutions involve a third-party
    server; surely direct connection between the machines would be simpler,
    and cheaper for those providing the solution.

    As others have said, it's primarily to be able to work around a nearly universal problem that would otherwise occur when establishing a
    connection across the Internet. The target PC is quite often behind a
    router. That router commonly performs Network Address Translation (NAT)
    and it usually has a stateful firewall (Stateful Packet Inspection,
    SPI). NAT translates between the WAN IP address of the router and the
    LAN IP address of the target PC, and SPI is responsible for blocking unsolicited inbound traffic, which would include this remote connection.
    Add a requirement to configure port forwarding, as well. The router can
    be manually configured to allow a remote connection, but the addition of
    the third party server makes all of that moot.

    I think there _is_
    something built into Windows, from 7 or 10 on, but the existence of all
    these alternatives suggest it's not very good;

    Remote Desktop client is included in every version of Windows from XP
    onward, while Remote Desktop server/host is only included in the Pro and Enterprise versions. The problem with RD isn't that it's not very good,
    it's simply that it's not always available, such as when you want to
    connect to a PC running a Home version. Home can be a client, but not a
    server.

    I've been using RD as a permanent method of accessing a headless PC on
    my LAN for well over 10 years now, maybe closer to 20 years. I think it
    works just fine for how I use it. I could use it over the Internet,
    which is something I've done just to see how well it works, but my
    normal use case is strictly within my LAN.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to Philip Herlihy on Mon Aug 4 11:24:00 2025
    On 03/08/2025 22:07, Philip Herlihy wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...


    I installed UltraVNC. It didn't work. It is asking for a password. Onve
    again I filled in the password for the user of the laptop but that
    didn't work. I installed a password in the server, but filling this in
    in the viewer didn't work as well. So I unstalled this as well.




    With UltraVNC, you install the server as a service on the machine you
    want to support. If you right-click the server icon (system tray) I
    seem to remember there are two options to configure settings - in one of these you can set a password. This is useful if you want to control
    access to a machine where the connection is initiated from the client application (particularly if you're traversing the Internet to do this).
    Try setting up two machines on your local network: one server, one
    client, and fool around with it before you try opening ports and
    allowing full remote access. If you haven't set a password, try the
    "null" password (just hit Enter).

    With the arrangement I described above, connections are initiated from
    the server end, to a client running at my end. See my post for full
    details of this.

    Note that I'd normally use Quick Assist between Windows machines (10 and above). But non-technical friends have coped well with both Quick
    Assist and my way of using UltraVNC, where I talk them through right- clicking the server icon and entering my address.
    --
    Phil, London


    Thanks.
    I have configured UltraVNC, that wasn't difficult. But it still didn't work.
    So I uninstalled UltraVNC. I now use TightVNC for the two local pc's.

    Fokke

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Mon Aug 4 11:34:33 2025
    On 04/08/2025 01:11, VanguardLH wrote:
    Fokke Nauta <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 03/08/2025 02:56, VanguardLH wrote:
    Fokke Nauta <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 01/08/2025 16:11, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    Hi all,

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11 laptops. >>>>> To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops I use
    RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have to pay >>>>> for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a few
    connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes it >>>>> can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    With kind regards,
    Fokke Nauta

    Thanks for your suggestions.
    I installed TightVNC. It worked well for the other pc's, but not for the >>>> wifi laptops. It asked for a password which I didn't know. I filled in >>>> the password for the user of the laptop but that didn't work.
    I uninstalled it.
    I installed UltraVNC. It didn't work. It is asking for a password. Onve >>>> again I filled in the password for the user of the laptop but that
    didn't work. I installed a password in the server, but filling this in >>>> in the viewer didn't work as well. So I unstalled this as well.

    So - I haven't got a clue.

    Fokke

    The VNC clients connect to a VNC server. You have a VNC client
    installed on the remote host, and a VNC server on the local host. For
    example, you'd have a VNC client on host-A, and a VNC server on host-B.
    When you connect the client to the server, the client needs to specify
    the login password at the server.

    I know that. You can choose to not using passwords. As this is all in
    our home, I choosed for that.

    https://www.tightvnc.com/doc/win/TightVNC_for_Windows-Installation_and_Getting_Started.pdf
    Installation
    Register TightVNC Server as a system service (recommended)

    Ofcourse I did.

    By default, TightVNC Server is installed as a Windows service and
    starts immediately after installation. At the end of the
    installation you will be asked about passwords for TightVNC
    Server as a service, in order to protect it from unauthorized
    access.

    I choosed for not using passwords.

    You SHOULD use a password at the server to ensure that intruders don't
    get access to your host running the VNC server.

    We don't have intruders in our home.

    Then maybe when prompted for a password, you leave it blank, and hit
    Enter. The expectation when choosing not to use passwords is that you
    don't get prompted for them, but maybe not using password with TightVNC
    means you just click through the password prompt. A user reported
    "TightVNC site claims there is no default password", like blank or "password", also verified at:

    https://www.tightvnc.com/winst.php
    "In the default configuration, each user can have his/her own separate
    WinVNC password, bit also there is a special default password used when
    no user password is available (e.g when nobody is logged in, or if no
    user password was set). Note: there is no any predefined default
    password in TightVNC, machine-wide password is called "default" just
    because it's used when there are no user-specific passwords available."
    (They need to use a grammar and spelling checker for their docs.)

    Either there is no default password, and you have to specify one, or
    maybe they're trying to say the default password is "default".

    It was unclear you would use VNC only with your intranetwork hosts
    versus having access to one of your intranet hosts from outside your
    network, like from the Internet. That's highly likely why there is
    password protect on login. When you get a prompt to enter a password,
    can you click OK to ignore the prompt?

    Just not specifying a password at the server may not mean you don't need
    one to log into the server.

    https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/31281/tightvnc-to-windows-7-password

    The respondent there said a password is required.

    https://www.tightvnc.com/vncpasswd.1.php

    "Each password has to be longer than five characters". I can't see how
    a blank passwword could be longer than 5 chars.

    Thanks.
    I now use TightVNC for the two local W10 pc's. Don't use passwords and
    it works well. With my wife's W11 laptop it won't connect. It didn't ask
    for a password. I get an error message, saying that the connection has
    failed.
    With my W11 laptop, it asks for a password. I didn't set a password.
    With a secons attempt I did set a password, but it still didn't work.
    The password was not accepted.
    So I won't use TightVNC for the W11 wifi connected laptops.

    Fokke

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  • From Philip Herlihy@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 4 10:50:30 2025
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...


    I have configured UltraVNC, that wasn't difficult. But it still didn't work. >So I uninstalled UltraVNC. I now use TightVNC for the two local pc's.



    All I can say is that I've installed UltraVNC on numerous machines over
    many years and never had any problems with it. It may perhaps be that
    it's not as clear how to set it up successfully as it might be?

    --
    Phil, London

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Char Jackson on Mon Aug 4 11:55:01 2025
    On 2025/8/4 2:41:39, Char Jackson wrote:
    On Sat, 2 Aug 2025 15:46:01 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    It puzzles me why so many of these solutions involve a third-party
    server; surely direct connection between the machines would be simpler,
    and cheaper for those providing the solution.

    As others have said, it's primarily to be able to work around a nearly universal problem that would otherwise occur when establishing a
    connection across the Internet. The target PC is quite often behind a
    router. That router commonly performs Network Address Translation (NAT)
    and it usually has a stateful firewall (Stateful Packet Inspection,
    SPI). NAT translates between the WAN IP address of the router and the
    LAN IP address of the target PC, and SPI is responsible for blocking unsolicited inbound traffic, which would include this remote connection.

    Blocking unsolicited is good, but in these cases, we're talking about
    _wanted_ traffic.

    Add a requirement to configure port forwarding, as well. The router can
    be manually configured to allow a remote connection, but the addition of
    the third party server makes all of that moot.

    I guess getting round the problem of getting the connection set up in
    the first place is a significant part.>
    I think there _is_
    something built into Windows, from 7 or 10 on, but the existence of all
    these alternatives suggest it's not very good;

    Remote Desktop client is included in every version of Windows from XP
    onward, while Remote Desktop server/host is only included in the Pro and Enterprise versions. The problem with RD isn't that it's not very good,
    it's simply that it's not always available, such as when you want to
    connect to a PC running a Home version. Home can be a client, but not a server.

    Ah, so it _isn't_ really part of (the Home versions of) Windows.>
    I've been using RD as a permanent method of accessing a headless PC on
    my LAN for well over 10 years now, maybe closer to 20 years. I think it
    works just fine for how I use it. I could use it over the Internet,
    which is something I've done just to see how well it works, but my
    normal use case is strictly within my LAN.

    Interesting, thanks. (How well _did_ you think it worked?)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Don't hit the keys so hard, it hurts.

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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to Char Jackson on Mon Aug 4 12:57:06 2025
    On 2025-08-04 03:41, Char Jackson wrote:
    On Sat, 2 Aug 2025 15:46:01 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    It puzzles me why so many of these solutions involve a third-party
    server; surely direct connection between the machines would be simpler,
    and cheaper for those providing the solution.

    As others have said, it's primarily to be able to work around a nearly universal problem that would otherwise occur when establishing a
    connection across the Internet. The target PC is quite often behind a
    router. That router commonly performs Network Address Translation (NAT)
    and it usually has a stateful firewall (Stateful Packet Inspection,
    SPI). NAT translates between the WAN IP address of the router and the
    LAN IP address of the target PC, and SPI is responsible for blocking unsolicited inbound traffic, which would include this remote connection.
    Add a requirement to configure port forwarding, as well. The router can
    be manually configured to allow a remote connection, but the addition of
    the third party server makes all of that moot.

    It took years for protocols to work this well using a third party
    server. I remember that at the start it did not always work. Skype was
    maybe the first one to massively use this, and initially it did not work
    that well.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

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  • From s|b@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Sun Aug 3 19:43:23 2025
    On Sat, 2 Aug 2025 15:46:01 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    the thing is, TeamViewer make it hard enough for _me_
    to find the QS download on their website - I give those I'm wanting to
    help the direct link to it when I find it (or actually send them - or
    put it somewhere and point them to it - the executable).

    I bookmarked this URL, because I always have the same problem: <https://www.teamviewer.com/en/download/portal/windows/>

    --
    s|b

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  • From s|b@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 4 15:37:17 2025
    On Sun, 3 Aug 2025 23:10:28 -0700, T wrote:

    I recently stumbled upon RustDesk

    Do you know of any third parties that host
    Rust Desk for you?

    I saw a YT vid where a guy used Docker to install a RustDesk server and
    then he placed it somewhere in the cloud. It was a paid service. Can't
    find the vid atm.

    <https://rustdesk.com/docs/en/self-host/rustdesk-server-oss/docker/>

    This explains how to run your own server, but then you'll have to do
    some portforwarding.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49EfaA5vRbY>

    This explains how to set up a server on a cloud instance.

    --
    s|b

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  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Mon Aug 4 14:06:22 2025
    Fokke Nauta <[email protected]> wrote:

    I now use TightVNC for the two local W10 pc's. Don't use passwords and
    it works well. With my wife's W11 laptop it won't connect. It didn't ask
    for a password. I get an error message, saying that the connection has failed.
    With my W11 laptop, it asks for a password. I didn't set a password.
    With a secons attempt I did set a password, but it still didn't work.
    The password was not accepted.
    So I won't use TightVNC for the W11 wifi connected laptops.

    Instead of newsgroups or web forums, TightVNC has mailing lists. See:

    https://www.tightvnc.com/lists.php
    or
    https://sourceforge.net/projects/vnc-tight/lists/vnc-tight-list

    Maybe some users there can help with password issues if no one here
    comes up with a resolution for you. Sourceforge has become increasingly
    slow to respond at their web site. No idea if their mailing lists
    suffer the same issue.

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  • From Zaidy036@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Mon Aug 4 16:25:37 2025
    On 8/4/2025 5:24 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    On 03/08/2025 22:07, Philip Herlihy wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...


    I installed UltraVNC. It didn't work. It is asking for a password. Onve
    again I filled in the password for the user of the laptop but that
    didn't work. I installed a password in the server, but filling this in
    in the viewer didn't work as well. So I unstalled this as well.




    With UltraVNC, you install the server as a service on the machine you
    want to support.  If you right-click the server icon (system tray) I
    seem to remember there are two options to configure settings - in one of
    these you can set a password.  This is useful if you want to control
    access to a machine where the connection is initiated from the client
    application (particularly if you're traversing the Internet to do this).
    Try setting up two machines on your local network: one server, one
    client, and fool around with it before you try opening ports and
    allowing full remote access.  If you haven't set a password, try the
    "null" password (just hit Enter).

    With the arrangement I described above, connections are initiated from
    the server end, to a client running at my end.  See my post for full
    details of this.

    Note that I'd normally use Quick Assist between Windows machines (10 and
    above).  But non-technical friends have coped well with both Quick
    Assist and my way of using UltraVNC, where I talk them through right-
    clicking the server icon and entering my address.
    --
    Phil, London


    Thanks.
    I have configured UltraVNC, that wasn't difficult. But it still didn't
    work.
    So I uninstalled UltraVNC. I now use TightVNC for the two local pc's.

    Fokke
    the password is for the app not the connected PCs

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  • From Char Jackson@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 4 23:22:34 2025
    On Mon, 4 Aug 2025 11:55:01 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 2025/8/4 2:41:39, Char Jackson wrote:
    On Sat, 2 Aug 2025 15:46:01 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    It puzzles me why so many of these solutions involve a third-party
    server; surely direct connection between the machines would be simpler,
    and cheaper for those providing the solution.

    As others have said, it's primarily to be able to work around a nearly
    universal problem that would otherwise occur when establishing a
    connection across the Internet. The target PC is quite often behind a
    router. That router commonly performs Network Address Translation (NAT)
    and it usually has a stateful firewall (Stateful Packet Inspection,
    SPI). NAT translates between the WAN IP address of the router and the
    LAN IP address of the target PC, and SPI is responsible for blocking
    unsolicited inbound traffic, which would include this remote connection.

    Blocking unsolicited is good, but in these cases, we're talking about >_wanted_ traffic.

    Wanted by the human, yes, but not wanted by the router's firewall that
    sits out front and acts as a gatekeeper. Until you configure that
    firewall, and likely the firewall on the PC itself, it's all going to be treated as 'unwanted', which means it'll be blocked.

    With a third party server in the mix, there is no unsolicited inbound
    traffic at either end of the connection since the two PC endpoints have
    each established an _outbound_ connection to the common server. The PC firewalls don't have any issues with that.

    Add a requirement to configure port forwarding, as well. The router can
    be manually configured to allow a remote connection, but the addition of
    the third party server makes all of that moot.

    I guess getting round the problem of getting the connection set up in
    the first place is a significant part.>
    I think there _is_
    something built into Windows, from 7 or 10 on, but the existence of all
    these alternatives suggest it's not very good;

    Remote Desktop client is included in every version of Windows from XP
    onward, while Remote Desktop server/host is only included in the Pro and
    Enterprise versions. The problem with RD isn't that it's not very good,
    it's simply that it's not always available, such as when you want to
    connect to a PC running a Home version. Home can be a client, but not a
    server.

    Ah, so it _isn't_ really part of (the Home versions of) Windows.>
    I've been using RD as a permanent method of accessing a headless PC on
    my LAN for well over 10 years now, maybe closer to 20 years. I think it
    works just fine for how I use it. I could use it over the Internet,
    which is something I've done just to see how well it works, but my
    normal use case is strictly within my LAN.

    Interesting, thanks. (How well _did_ you think it worked?)

    It worked fine, if you just think about the Remote Desktop connection
    itself, limited to the ability to log into a remote PC and do everything
    you could do as if you were sitting right there in front of it. I wasn't comfortable with some of the security aspects, however, including the requirement to punch a permanent hole in the router's firewall and
    configure port forwarding there, as well as punching a permanent hole in
    the PC's firewall. Normally, you'd also want to keep track of the target
    IP address, but in my case it hasn't changed since I moved to this area
    over 6 years ago.

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Char Jackson on Tue Aug 5 20:24:09 2025
    On 2025/8/5 5:22:34, Char Jackson wrote:
    On Mon, 4 Aug 2025 11:55:01 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    []

    Blocking unsolicited is good, but in these cases, we're talking about
    _wanted_ traffic.

    Wanted by the human, yes, but not wanted by the router's firewall that
    sits out front and acts as a gatekeeper. Until you configure that
    firewall, and likely the firewall on the PC itself, it's all going to be treated as 'unwanted', which means it'll be blocked.

    That makes sense, thanks.

    []

    Remote Desktop client is included in every version of Windows from XP

    []

    Ah, so it _isn't_ really part of (the Home versions of) Windows.>
    I've been using RD as a permanent method of accessing a headless PC on
    my LAN for well over 10 years now, maybe closer to 20 years. I think it
    works just fine for how I use it. I could use it over the Internet,
    which is something I've done just to see how well it works, but my
    normal use case is strictly within my LAN.

    Interesting, thanks. (How well _did_ you think it worked?)

    It worked fine, if you just think about the Remote Desktop connection
    itself, limited to the ability to log into a remote PC and do everything
    you could do as if you were sitting right there in front of it. I wasn't comfortable with some of the security aspects, however, including the requirement to punch a permanent hole in the router's firewall and
    configure port forwarding there, as well as punching a permanent hole in
    the PC's firewall. Normally, you'd also want to keep track of the target

    Understood.

    IP address, but in my case it hasn't changed since I moved to this area
    over 6 years ago.


    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    I remember a lot of questions on a vocalist forum about the problems
    singing "There is a balm in Gilead" without making it sound like a
    security alert. - Linda Fox in UMRA, 2010-11-19

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  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Wed Aug 6 08:59:38 2025
    On 04/08/2025 21:06, VanguardLH wrote:
    Fokke Nauta <[email protected]> wrote:

    I now use TightVNC for the two local W10 pc's. Don't use passwords and
    it works well. With my wife's W11 laptop it won't connect. It didn't ask
    for a password. I get an error message, saying that the connection has
    failed.
    With my W11 laptop, it asks for a password. I didn't set a password.
    With a secons attempt I did set a password, but it still didn't work.
    The password was not accepted.
    So I won't use TightVNC for the W11 wifi connected laptops.

    Instead of newsgroups or web forums, TightVNC has mailing lists. See:

    https://www.tightvnc.com/lists.php
    or
    https://sourceforge.net/projects/vnc-tight/lists/vnc-tight-list

    Maybe some users there can help with password issues if no one here
    comes up with a resolution for you. Sourceforge has become increasingly
    slow to respond at their web site. No idea if their mailing lists
    suffer the same issue.

    Thanks. I will have a look at it.

    Fokke

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to Philip Herlihy on Wed Aug 6 09:01:55 2025
    On 04/08/2025 11:50, Philip Herlihy wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...


    I have configured UltraVNC, that wasn't difficult. But it still didn't work. >> So I uninstalled UltraVNC. I now use TightVNC for the two local pc's.



    All I can say is that I've installed UltraVNC on numerous machines over
    many years and never had any problems with it. It may perhaps be that
    it's not as clear how to set it up successfully as it might be?

    --
    Phil, London

    It wasn't difficult to set it up.
    But it did not work for the two wifi laptops.

    Fokke

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 6 09:03:28 2025
    On 04/08/2025 22:25, Zaidy036 wrote:
    On 8/4/2025 5:24 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    On 03/08/2025 22:07, Philip Herlihy wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...


    I installed UltraVNC. It didn't work. It is asking for a password. Onve >>>> again I filled in the password for the user of the laptop but that
    didn't work. I installed a password in the server, but filling this in >>>> in the viewer didn't work as well. So I unstalled this as well.




    With UltraVNC, you install the server as a service on the machine you
    want to support.  If you right-click the server icon (system tray) I
    seem to remember there are two options to configure settings - in one of >>> these you can set a password.  This is useful if you want to control
    access to a machine where the connection is initiated from the client
    application (particularly if you're traversing the Internet to do this). >>> Try setting up two machines on your local network: one server, one
    client, and fool around with it before you try opening ports and
    allowing full remote access.  If you haven't set a password, try the
    "null" password (just hit Enter).

    With the arrangement I described above, connections are initiated from
    the server end, to a client running at my end.  See my post for full
    details of this.

    Note that I'd normally use Quick Assist between Windows machines (10 and >>> above).  But non-technical friends have coped well with both Quick
    Assist and my way of using UltraVNC, where I talk them through right-
    clicking the server icon and entering my address.
    --
    Phil, London


    Thanks.
    I have configured UltraVNC, that wasn't difficult. But it still didn't
    work.
    So I uninstalled UltraVNC. I now use TightVNC for the two local pc's.

    Fokke
    the password is for the app not the connected PCs

    But I didn't set a password.

    Fokke

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  • From T@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 3 23:10:28 2025
    On 8/2/25 6:57 AM, s|b wrote:
    I recently stumbled upon RustDesk

    Do you know of any third parties that host
    Rust Desk for you?

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  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Aug 6 12:35:56 2025
    s|b <[email protected]d> wrote:

    Michael Logies wrote:

    VanguardLH said:
    <Missing attribution line omitted by sb.>

    https://remotedesktop.google.com

    It is very reliable and fast.

    It's Google. I tried RustDesk today and my impression was that it's
    faster than TeamViewer. It also didn't let me perform administrator
    functions without the other party's permission which imo is a good
    thing.

    "Switch from ... to RustDesk for a secure and reliable remote desktop experience with your own self-hosted servers."
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    While the OP was interested in VNC variants, and those require a VNC
    server at one end, I doubt the OP wants to set up his own self-hosted
    server.

    https://github.com/rustdesk/rustdesk-server/releases/tag/1.1.14
    "This is the open-source version, not the Pro version that you purchased
    a license for."

    https://rustdesk.com/docs/en/self-host/rustdesk-server-oss/

    Rustdesk does not appear an end-user friendly, simple, and quick
    solution, but oriented to a larger deployment. Looks like it takes a
    lot more effort to setup, configure, and troubleshoot than other
    remoting solutions.

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  • From Brian Gregory@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Wed Aug 6 20:55:58 2025
    On 01/08/2025 15:11, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    Hi all,

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11 laptops.
    To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops I use
    RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have to pay
    for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a few
    connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes it can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    With kind regards,
    Fokke Nauta

    I'm told https://www.tightvnc.com/ is good.

    --
    Brian Gregory (in England).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Brian Gregory@21:1/5 to Brian Gregory on Wed Aug 6 21:00:38 2025
    On 06/08/2025 20:55, Brian Gregory wrote:
    On 01/08/2025 15:11, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    Hi all,

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11
    laptops. To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops I
    use RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have to
    pay for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a few
    connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes
    it can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    With kind regards,
    Fokke Nauta

    I'm told https://www.tightvnc.com/ is good.


    Or I guess if you just want something that's dead simple to use which
    requires no expertise to secure it, then go with Chrome Remote Desktop, especially if you already have the Chrome browser installed.

    --
    Brian Gregory (in England).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Philip Herlihy@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 7 11:39:40 2025
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

    On 04/08/2025 11:50, Philip Herlihy wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...


    I have configured UltraVNC, that wasn't difficult. But it still didn't work.
    So I uninstalled UltraVNC. I now use TightVNC for the two local pc's.



    All I can say is that I've installed UltraVNC on numerous machines over
    many years and never had any problems with it. It may perhaps be that
    it's not as clear how to set it up successfully as it might be?

    --
    Phil, London

    It wasn't difficult to set it up.
    But it did not work for the two wifi laptops.

    Fokke

    I see my previous "diplomatic language" missed the mark. You have
    something misconfigured. If it asks for a password and you haven't set
    one, try just hitting Enter. Otherwise, make sure the Windows firewall
    is set to allow this app on both private and public networks. (For
    securer ways of operating over the Internet, rather than your LAN, see
    my previous posts.

    --
    --
    Phil, London

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to Philip Herlihy on Thu Aug 7 15:19:30 2025
    On 07/08/2025 12:39, Philip Herlihy wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

    On 04/08/2025 11:50, Philip Herlihy wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...


    I have configured UltraVNC, that wasn't difficult. But it still didn't work.
    So I uninstalled UltraVNC. I now use TightVNC for the two local pc's.



    All I can say is that I've installed UltraVNC on numerous machines over
    many years and never had any problems with it. It may perhaps be that
    it's not as clear how to set it up successfully as it might be?

    --
    Phil, London

    It wasn't difficult to set it up.
    But it did not work for the two wifi laptops.

    Fokke

    I see my previous "diplomatic language" missed the mark. You have
    something misconfigured. If it asks for a password and you haven't set
    one, try just hitting Enter.

    Ofcourse I did but it didn't work.

    Otherwise, make sure the Windows firewall
    is set to allow this app on both private and public networks.

    It is

    (For
    securer ways of operating over the Internet, rather than your LAN, see
    my previous posts.


    Fokke

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  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to Brian Gregory on Thu Aug 7 15:20:49 2025
    On 06/08/2025 21:55, Brian Gregory wrote:
    On 01/08/2025 15:11, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    Hi all,

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11
    laptops. To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops I
    use RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have to
    pay for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a few
    connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and sometimes
    it can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    With kind regards,
    Fokke Nauta

    I'm told https://www.tightvnc.com/ is good.


    I now use TightVNC for the two local W10 pc's. It didn't work with the
    two wifi W11 laptops.

    Fokke

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  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to Brian Gregory on Thu Aug 7 15:22:00 2025
    On 06/08/2025 22:00, Brian Gregory wrote:
    On 06/08/2025 20:55, Brian Gregory wrote:
    On 01/08/2025 15:11, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    Hi all,

    At home I have my own W10 pc and two other W10 pc's and two W11
    laptops. To have a remote connection with the other pc's and laptops
    I use RealVNC Viewer. U used it for years, but since last year I have
    to pay for it (about 250 euro's per year). It's limited for just a
    few connections. I'm not happy with it. It's too expensive, and
    sometimes it can't make a connection.
    Can you advice me an alternative that is cheaper and works well?
    Many thanks in advance.

    With kind regards,
    Fokke Nauta

    I'm told https://www.tightvnc.com/ is good.


    Or I guess if you just want something that's dead simple to use which requires no expertise to secure it, then go with Chrome Remote Desktop, especially if you already have the Chrome browser installed.


    No, Chrome Remote Desktop is not an option for me.

    Fokke

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  • From Michael Logies@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Wed Aug 6 15:58:55 2025
    On Fri, 1 Aug 2025 12:06:55 -0500, VanguardLH <[email protected]> wrote:

    https://remotedesktop.google.com

    It is very reliable and fast.

    Regards

    M.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From s|b@21:1/5 to Michael Logies on Wed Aug 6 18:41:35 2025
    On Wed, 06 Aug 2025 15:58:55 +0200, Michael Logies wrote:

    https://remotedesktop.google.com

    It is very reliable and fast.

    It's Google. I tried RustDesk today and my impression was that it's
    faster than TeamViewer. It also didn't let me perform administrator
    functions without the other party's permission which imo is a good
    thing.

    --
    s|b

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  • From Philip Herlihy@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 8 11:44:30 2025
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...


    I now use TightVNC for the two local W10 pc's. It didn't work with the
    two wifi W11 laptops.



    If you're still without a solution for the W11 laptops, try running the
    UVNC server on one (running as a service), and a "listening client" on
    the other. On the latter, open port 5500 via your firewall, and run the listening client. On the server, right-click the system tray icon and
    pick "new connection" (forget exact words, but it's obvious) and give
    the local IP address of the machine running the client. That should
    work, and give you a basis to work from. If it doesn't work for you,
    I'd suggest using an AI research tool like Perplexity or ChatGPT to help
    you diagnose the problem. Good luck!


    --
    Phil, London

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  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to Philip Herlihy on Sat Aug 9 12:59:48 2025
    On 08/08/2025 12:44, Philip Herlihy wrote:
    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...


    I now use TightVNC for the two local W10 pc's. It didn't work with the
    two wifi W11 laptops.



    If you're still without a solution for the W11 laptops, try running the
    UVNC server on one (running as a service), and a "listening client" on
    the other. On the latter, open port 5500 via your firewall, and run the listening client. On the server, right-click the system tray icon and
    pick "new connection" (forget exact words, but it's obvious) and give
    the local IP address of the machine running the client. That should
    work, and give you a basis to work from. If it doesn't work for you,
    I'd suggest using an AI research tool like Perplexity or ChatGPT to help
    you diagnose the problem. Good luck!


    --
    Phil, London


    Thanks.

    I have scaled RealVNC down to two clients, which is much cheaper. I now
    use it for the laptops.

    Fokke

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Sat Aug 9 13:17:38 2025
    Fokke Nauta <[email protected]> wrote:

    I have scaled RealVNC down to two clients, which is much cheaper. I
    now use it for the laptops.

    Since you pay for it, some support is included. They have their FAQs
    and help pages, their web-based forums, and a web form to submit an
    online request for help. Sometimes FAQs and forums aren't sufficient.

    It has been so long since I last using VNC that, I think, when I long
    ago tested several variant RealVNC was free back then. Free is nice,
    but support can be critical when you need it. I don't care for subscriptionware, though: $8.95/mo, billed annually ($99/yr) for an
    Essentials license with 1 user over 3 devices. They probably went to
    that model to afford providing support; else, a one-time purchase with
    lifetime support has diminishing ROI over time; however, once you have everything working, often you no longer need support, but then you're
    paying yearly for support you no longer need.

    Free is nice, but sometimes paid is better. Over decades of using free
    Usenet, I eventually decided to pay for it but wanted something cheap
    (10 euro/yr, ~$12 USD/yr) with high up-time. I tried LibreOffice for
    over a year, but there were too many workarounds or missing functions,
    so I went back to MS Office, but got the standalone 2021 Pro Plus for
    real cheap ($35) from a known, trustworthy, and reliable seller. I used
    to pay for eM Client (I gave up on Thunderbird after 6 trials with the
    last one lasting 6 months), but now I'm back to MS Outlook (the client,
    not their webapp). Sometimes free can be great. I have lots of
    freeware. Sometimes payware is a better choice. The effort you expend
    in setting up, debugging, and maintaining freeware can be offset by
    something that works straight out of the box. However, I'd rather pay
    for a one-time lifetime license, but I don't see RealVNC offers one for personal use.

    Depends if you like challenges. For me, I'd probably go with a
    different and freeware VNC variant, especially only for only
    intranetwork hosts. Getting secure external access requires much more
    setup. For me, the wifi hosts not working would be a challenge, and I'm stubborn, er, determined enough to make it work. Wifi adds more
    complication to the networking than wired Ethernet connections.

    TightVNC has their mailing lists (https://www.tightvnc.com/lists.php) to
    get help. UltraVNC has their forums (https://forum.uvnc.com/). I can't
    say if either would prove fruitful to resolve problems since I've never
    visited there. I'd first prefer newsgroups, secondly web forums, and
    lastly mailing lists, but help is help. However, maybe you already paid
    for the RealVNC subscriptionware license, and figure you're done with
    all the hassle.

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  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Sun Aug 10 18:01:12 2025
    On 09/08/2025 20:17, VanguardLH wrote:
    Fokke Nauta <[email protected]> wrote:

    I have scaled RealVNC down to two clients, which is much cheaper. I
    now use it for the laptops.

    Since you pay for it, some support is included. They have their FAQs
    and help pages, their web-based forums, and a web form to submit an
    online request for help. Sometimes FAQs and forums aren't sufficient.

    It has been so long since I last using VNC that, I think, when I long
    ago tested several variant RealVNC was free back then.

    Indeed, it was free for a long time.

    Free is nice,
    but support can be critical when you need it. I don't care for subscriptionware, though: $8.95/mo, billed annually ($99/yr) for an Essentials license with 1 user over 3 devices.

    Indeed, that's what I have now.

    They probably went to
    that model to afford providing support; else, a one-time purchase with lifetime support has diminishing ROI over time; however, once you have everything working, often you no longer need support, but then you're
    paying yearly for support you no longer need.

    That's true,but I didn't have another choice.

    Free is nice, but sometimes paid is better. Over decades of using free Usenet, I eventually decided to pay for it but wanted something cheap
    (10 euro/yr, ~$12 USD/yr) with high up-time. I tried LibreOffice for
    over a year, but there were too many workarounds or missing functions,
    so I went back to MS Office, but got the standalone 2021 Pro Plus for
    real cheap ($35) from a known, trustworthy, and reliable seller.

    I use MS Home and Office 2016. I'm happy with it.

    I used
    to pay for eM Client (I gave up on Thunderbird after 6 trials with the
    last one lasting 6 months), but now I'm back to MS Outlook (the client,
    not their webapp).

    I use Thunderbird for many years, and I'm happy with it!

    Sometimes free can be great. I have lots of
    freeware. Sometimes payware is a better choice. The effort you expend
    in setting up, debugging, and maintaining freeware can be offset by
    something that works straight out of the box. However, I'd rather pay
    for a one-time lifetime license, but I don't see RealVNC offers one for personal use.

    Depends if you like challenges. For me, I'd probably go with a
    different and freeware VNC variant, especially only for only
    intranetwork hosts. Getting secure external access requires much more
    setup. For me, the wifi hosts not working would be a challenge, and I'm stubborn, er, determined enough to make it work. Wifi adds more
    complication to the networking than wired Ethernet connections.

    TightVNC has their mailing lists (https://www.tightvnc.com/lists.php) to
    get help. UltraVNC has their forums (https://forum.uvnc.com/). I can't
    say if either would prove fruitful to resolve problems since I've never visited there. I'd first prefer newsgroups,

    So do I

    secondly web forums, and
    lastly mailing lists, but help is help. However, maybe you already paid
    for the RealVNC subscriptionware license,

    Yes, when I had 6 clients. It was a lot of money. It's valued to june
    2026. Than I will close down to 2 clients.

    and figure you're done with
    all the hassle.

    Thanks!

    Fokke

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Sun Aug 10 18:12:25 2025
    On 2025/8/10 17:1:12, Fokke Nauta wrote:

    []

    I use MS Home and Office 2016. I'm happy with it.

    []

    I use Office 2003 (with the patches to let it read the .???x variants).
    It works fine under W10-64, and I've yet to find _anything_ I want that
    needs any features in later versions (and yet to find anything that
    needs me to save in one of the .???x formats, either). [In fact, I
    probably would have been happy with Office 97, 1998 ("Burgundy")
    edition; the only difference between that and 2003 that I actually _use_
    is more flexible cell alignment in Word tables. But I don't know if that
    would run on later Windows.]

    (Not sure what "MS Home" is; if the _flavour_ of Windows, yes, I'm using
    that too.)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    When I'm good, I'm very good. But when I'm bad - I'm better! (Mae West)

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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Sun Aug 10 19:57:11 2025
    On 2025-08-09 20:17, VanguardLH wrote:
    TightVNC has their mailing lists (https://www.tightvnc.com/lists.php) to
    get help. UltraVNC has their forums (https://forum.uvnc.com/). I can't
    say if either would prove fruitful to resolve problems since I've never visited there. I'd first prefer newsgroups, secondly web forums, and
    lastly mailing lists, but help is help. However, maybe you already paid
    for the RealVNC subscriptionware license, and figure you're done with
    all the hassle.

    I have found chatgpt good for diagnosis of computer problems. In any
    case, the reply is instantaneous.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

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  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Sun Aug 10 19:33:38 2025
    On 10/08/2025 19:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/8/10 17:1:12, Fokke Nauta wrote:

    []

    I use MS Home and Office 2016. I'm happy with it.

    []

    I use Office 2003 (with the patches to let it read the .???x variants).
    It works fine under W10-64, and I've yet to find _anything_ I want that
    needs any features in later versions (and yet to find anything that
    needs me to save in one of the .???x formats, either). [In fact, I
    probably would have been happy with Office 97, 1998 ("Burgundy")
    edition; the only difference between that and 2003 that I actually _use_
    is more flexible cell alignment in Word tables. But I don't know if that would run on later Windows.]

    (Not sure what "MS Home" is; if the _flavour_ of Windows, yes, I'm using
    that too.)

    When I open my account, Product Information Office, it says Product
    activated etc, Microsoft Home and Business 2016.

    Fokke

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Sun Aug 10 19:08:46 2025
    On 2025/8/10 18:33:38, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    On 10/08/2025 19:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/8/10 17:1:12, Fokke Nauta wrote:

    []

    I use MS Home and Office 2016. I'm happy with it.

    []

    I use Office 2003 (with the patches to let it read the .???x variants).

    []

    (Not sure what "MS Home" is; if the _flavour_ of Windows, yes, I'm using
    that too.)

    When I open my account, Product Information Office, it says Product
    activated etc, Microsoft Home and Business 2016.

    Fokke

    Ah, I understand. When I do Help|About in Word, I get "...Part of
    Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003". I'm pretty sure I did
    actually buy it - I think it might have been through an employee scheme.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

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  • From s|b@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Sun Aug 10 20:42:45 2025
    On Thu, 7 Aug 2025 15:20:49 +0200, Fokke Nauta wrote:

    I now use TightVNC for the two local W10 pc's. It didn't work with the
    two wifi W11 laptops.

    I've tried RustDesk a few days ago and found it more responsive than TeamViewer. I'm not sure, but I think you can set it up, so the ID and
    password of the guest devices (server) stay the same. You can create a
    list of favourites and you can 'discover peers' which I think is
    searching for clients/guests within the home network.

    I'm using the portable version, but it can also be installed for better results. I'll be advising family and friends to use RustDesk instead of TeamViewer.

    --
    s|b

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  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 11 09:44:39 2025
    On 10/08/2025 20:42, s|b wrote:
    On Thu, 7 Aug 2025 15:20:49 +0200, Fokke Nauta wrote:

    I now use TightVNC for the two local W10 pc's. It didn't work with the
    two wifi W11 laptops.

    I've tried RustDesk a few days ago and found it more responsive than TeamViewer. I'm not sure, but I think you can set it up, so the ID and password of the guest devices (server) stay the same. You can create a
    list of favourites and you can 'discover peers' which I think is
    searching for clients/guests within the home network.

    I'm using the portable version, but it can also be installed for better results. I'll be advising family and friends to use RustDesk instead of TeamViewer.


    I now use RealVNC for the two laptops. I scaled it down to two clients,
    which is much cheaper.

    Fokke

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  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Mon Aug 11 09:46:22 2025
    On 10/08/2025 20:08, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/8/10 18:33:38, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    On 10/08/2025 19:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/8/10 17:1:12, Fokke Nauta wrote:

    []

    I use MS Home and Office 2016. I'm happy with it.

    []

    I use Office 2003 (with the patches to let it read the .???x variants).

    []

    (Not sure what "MS Home" is; if the _flavour_ of Windows, yes, I'm using >>> that too.)

    When I open my account, Product Information Office, it says Product
    activated etc, Microsoft Home and Business 2016.

    Fokke

    Ah, I understand. When I do Help|About in Word, I get "...Part of
    Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003". I'm pretty sure I did
    actually buy it

    Fully agree.

    - I think it might have been through an employee scheme.

    ?

    Fokke

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 11 14:09:42 2025
    On 2025/8/10 19:42:45, s|b wrote:
    On Thu, 7 Aug 2025 15:20:49 +0200, Fokke Nauta wrote:

    I now use TightVNC for the two local W10 pc's. It didn't work with the
    two wifi W11 laptops.

    I've tried RustDesk a few days ago and found it more responsive than TeamViewer. I'm not sure, but I think you can set it up, so the ID and password of the guest devices (server) stay the same. You can create a
    list of favourites and you can 'discover peers' which I think is
    searching for clients/guests within the home network.

    I'm using the portable version, but it can also be installed for better results. I'll be advising family and friends to use RustDesk instead of TeamViewer.

    Is RustDesk free? Or free-for-personal-use (but has a commercial
    version, so there's the same danger of being cut of because they think
    you're commercial as can happen with TeamViewer?)

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    We're done for the night. I'm off for a cup of tea and some crystal meth.
    Only joking. I've had quite enough tea for one day.
    - Victoria Coren Mitchell, quoted in RT 2017/10/7013

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Mon Aug 11 14:07:10 2025
    On 2025/8/11 8:46:22, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    On 10/08/2025 20:08, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    []

    Ah, I understand. When I do Help|About in Word, I get "...Part of
    Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003". I'm pretty sure I did
    actually buy it

    Fully agree.

    - I think it might have been through an employee scheme.

    ?

    Some scheme whereby my then employer had made some arrangement whereby employees could obtain Office at a beneficial price (might have involved downloading, and a key, rather than getting it on an actual medium, I
    can't remember).

    I think there was a later one where it was even free, but you had to
    delete your home copy if you left employment with that employer. (I
    wonder how many did!)

    As to _why_ the employer did this, I think it wasn't entirely
    altruistic: they wanted employees to be familiar with the same
    version(s) they were using at work.>
    Fokke

    John
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    We're done for the night. I'm off for a cup of tea and some crystal meth.
    Only joking. I've had quite enough tea for one day.
    - Victoria Coren Mitchell, quoted in RT 2017/10/7013

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Mon Aug 11 08:53:03 2025
    "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]> wrote:

    s|b wrote:

    Fokke Nauta wrote:

    I now use TightVNC for the two local W10 pc's. It didn't work with the
    two wifi W11 laptops.

    I've tried RustDesk a few days ago and found it more responsive than
    TeamViewer.

    Is RustDesk free?

    Yes, for personal-use only (https://rustdesk.com/pricing); however,
    their comparison page doesn't mention the limitations. The other
    editions mention the number of logged in users, and number of managed
    devices, but no mention of a limit for the free plan. While their free
    version is OSS, their other versions are not.

    Teamviewer supplies their own servers. No setup by you. Rustdesk has
    you setup a self-hosted server just like you have to setup a VNC server.
    I did not find a list of public Rustdesk servers you could use, but then
    there would be a privacy and security issues.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/rustdesk/comments/1bjpyso/whats_the_difference_between_the_free_version_and/

    You can find user discussions at:

    https://github.com/rustdesk/rustdesk/discussions

    Even if you don't participate, lurking can pull out some gems of info.

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  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Mon Aug 11 08:19:06 2025
    Fokke Nauta <[email protected]> wrote:

    J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    Fokke Nauta wrote:

    When I open my account, Product Information Office, it says Product
    activated etc, Microsoft Home and Business 2016.

    Ah, I understand. When I do Help|About in Word, I get "...Part of
    Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003". I'm pretty sure I did
    actually buy it

    Fully agree.

    - I think it might have been through an employee scheme.

    "Home and Business" is an edition of Microsoft Office. Each edition has
    a different recipe of components and features.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office#Editions

    There are also Plus sub-editions, like the Microsoft Office 2021
    Professional Plus that I purchased ($30) as a standalone version with a lifetime license (doesn't expire after 1 year as with subscriptions to
    MS 365). The Microsoft Office 365 subscriptions were renamed to
    Microsoft 365. I don't remember there were any changes to the
    subscriptions, just a name change.

    You can see the Office Home & Business edition listed at:

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/buy/compare-all-microsoft-365-products
    https://www.licencedeals.com/blogs/licencedeals-info-corner/microsoft-office-editions-comparison

    Microsoft keeps moving the target on the names of their products. Oh
    yes, Outlook new (yes, the lowercased "new' is part of the product name) replaced Mail (which had several incarnations across Windows versions). Microsoft keeps moving the target on the names of their bundles, too.
    There are product names now which differ from what they were called
    before. Gee, all I have to do is change the name plate on my car, and
    presto chango I have a new car. Changing names is how Microsoft hopes
    to con users something is new.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Mon Aug 11 15:53:48 2025
    On 2025/8/11 14:53:3, VanguardLH wrote:
    "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]> wrote:

    s|b wrote:

    []

    I've tried RustDesk a few days ago and found it more responsive than
    TeamViewer.

    Is RustDesk free?

    Yes, for personal-use only (https://rustdesk.com/pricing); however,

    Thanks.

    their comparison page doesn't mention the limitations. The other
    editions mention the number of logged in users, and number of managed devices, but no mention of a limit for the free plan. While their free version is OSS, their other versions are not.

    Teamviewer supplies their own servers. No setup by you. Rustdesk has
    you setup a self-hosted server just like you have to setup a VNC server.

    Is that on your own machine?
    []
    Rest of your post starred as keep for future reference, thanks.

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Mon Aug 11 13:03:33 2025
    "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]> wrote:

    VanguardLH wrote:

    their comparison page doesn't mention the limitations. The other
    editions mention the number of logged in users, and number of
    managed devices, but no mention of a limit for the free plan. While
    their free version is OSS, their other versions are not.

    Teamviewer supplies their own servers. No setup by you. Rustdesk
    has you setup a self-hosted server just like you have to setup a VNC
    server.

    Is that on your own machine?

    I've used Teamviewer in the past. You don't setup a server. They
    provide that. It is only to coordinate handshaking between the endpoint clients. Once they are connected, the server is no longer involved.

    For Rustdeak, just change their fluffy terminology of self-hosted server
    to just server, just like you have to do with a VNC server. You have to provide your own server, just like with VNC. In that case, you have to consider punching a hole in your router's firewall, and the firwall on
    your server host, use a porting rule in the router to forward all
    external access to just one of your intranet hosts (the ones running a
    server), and add protection to the server. You also probably won't know
    what is the current IP address of your intranet VNC server host (well,
    for the WAN IP address of your NAT router) unless you get static IP
    addresses from your ISP. To have a memorable host name for your WAN IP,
    you can use a DDNS service. You have the DNS updater client run on any
    of your intranet hosts, it reports the current WAN IP address to your
    account at the DDNS, and uses that lookup when you do an external
    connect. If you only do remoting from within your intranetwork, you
    don't need DDNS, but you'll need to configure your router to assign
    static IP addresses to your intranet host based on their MAC address.

    I have never used Rustdesk. Teamviewer works by the endpoint hosts
    making outbound HTTPS connections to the server. Firewalls, by default,
    pass out HTTP traffic without interference, and accept inbound connects
    to those outbound-initiated connection (i.e., stateful packet
    inspection). No having to punch holes in firewalls, define port
    forwarding, or employ DDNS to get a memorable host name to your network
    (WAN IP address of your router). Both ends make outbound HTTP connects
    to their already existing server that handshakes the endpoints to each
    other, and then drops out of the circuit. If Rustdesk uses the same
    scenario (both endpoints act as clients connecting via HTTP a server to facilitate the handshaking for the endpoints to find each other) then
    Rustdesk may be as easy as using Teamviewer. However, YOU have to setup
    the Rustdesk server, just like you have to setup a VNC server.

    Maybe sb can elucidate on how easy it was to setup his own Rustdesk
    server. Maybe they automate the setup to make it easy, but there are
    major differences between setting up a server for intranet access only,
    or setting up a server for external access into your intranetwork.

    https://rustdesk.com/docs/en/self-host/
    "If you are using RustDesk you should have your own RustDesk Server,
    ..."
    "Support is available via our Discord for OSS and email for Pro."

    The free OSS version has you using Discord to get help. YUCK EXTREME!
    E-mail support is available, but only if you pay for the Pro version.
    They make noise how they are OSS, but that feature disappears once you
    move beyond their free version.

    I did happen upon:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/rustdesk/comments/13b0jz6/extremely_confusing_instructions/

    which mentions "one may use the free Rustdesk public server". That
    looks to emulate Teamviewer's config, so maybe the endpoints use HTTP
    clients to connect to the rendezvous server to initiate handshaking
    between the endpoints. I did not find just what is the hostname or IP
    address for their rendezvous (public) server. Maybe that is encoded as
    a default in the Rustdesk clients, and you have to change to point at
    your own self-hosted Rustdesk server, if you want to do it that way.

    https://rustdesk.com/docs/en/client/
    Usage
    Once installed (or run as a temporary executable) RustDesk will connect
    to the Public servers.

    So, they have a public rendezvous server (maybe more than one to provide
    load balancing since they used the plural of "server"). I found a forum
    thread where rs-ny.rustdesk.com was mentioned, but that may just a
    frontend server to redirect to other servers. I thought:

    https://github.com/rustdesk/rustdesk/#free-public-servers

    might list those, but nope. One user noted an nslookup on
    rs-ny-rustdesk.com return an IP of 108.61.171.103. Today I got
    209.250.254.15. 108.61.171.103 is in Germany versus mine whose
    geolocation is in the Netherlands. Like with Tor and VPN that can have multiple exit nodes, could be their public free server changes to what
    it redirects.

    According to user reports, Rustdesk has had to up their server count, or otherwise improve the capacity of their free server due to increased
    load probably due to increased popularity. However, during their
    upgrades users have reported outages in the service. To see uptime of
    their various servers, you can visit:

    https://rustdesk.github.io/uptime/

    Click on one, like for the rendezvous server, to see the weekly uptime
    stats. For me doing that now, the weekly stat (which is actually a
    daily report over a 1-month span) reported 26.38% uptime. That is very
    poor if you rely on their public server instead of hosting your own.

    BTW, I learned more about Rustdesk by having to research it more. No, I
    don't use it, and never have used it. With Teamviewer, all I had to do
    was install their client on each endpoint host no matter if it was an
    intranet or accessed across the Internet. Actually, for Teamviewer, you
    don't have to install anything as you can use web browsers at each
    endpoint to do a remote connect. Up to you to choose between their
    desktop client or web app. However, I don't recall if you get to use
    their web client with their free service tier.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From s|b@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Mon Aug 11 21:03:17 2025
    On Mon, 11 Aug 2025 08:53:03 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

    Teamviewer supplies their own servers. No setup by you. Rustdesk has
    you setup a self-hosted server just like you have to setup a VNC server.

    I saw a YouTube vid about that days ago and IIRC you can choose: either
    you use their servers or you set one up yourself. All I know is it works
    the same as TeamViewer. There's no setting up a server. You download the portable EXE and run it. The other party does the same and provides an
    ID and password, so you can connect with it.

    --
    s|b

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 11 19:31:43 2025
    On 2025/8/11 19:3:33, VanguardLH wrote:

    [a very detailed and in theory helpful answer to my questions about
    RustDesk, and the subject in general]

    I'm afraid you lost mr pretty early on - which is no criticism of your
    answer, more of my ageing ability to absorb.

    I fear, if I need remote desktop in the future, I'll probably be back on TeamViewer - or one of the other similar. Or, possibly, nothing.

    BTW, I learned more about Rustdesk by having to research it more. No, I don't use it, and never have used it. With Teamviewer, all I had to do
    was install their client on each endpoint host no matter if it was an intranet or accessed across the Internet. Actually, for Teamviewer, you don't have to install anything as you can use web browsers at each
    endpoint to do a remote connect. Up to you to choose between their
    desktop client or web app. However, I don't recall if you get to use
    their web client with their free service tier.
    I don't remember seeing it, but then I probably would have avoided it
    anyway, as if there's a browser-centred way of doing something and an alternative, I tend to choose the latter - I don't like
    browser-everything. Much as I don't like everything (in life!) being
    done via "smart"phone.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From s|b@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Mon Aug 11 21:06:02 2025
    On Mon, 11 Aug 2025 13:03:33 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

    I've used Teamviewer in the past. You don't setup a server. They
    provide that. It is only to coordinate handshaking between the endpoint clients. Once they are connected, the server is no longer involved.

    For Rustdeak, just change their fluffy terminology of self-hosted server
    to just server, just like you have to do with a VNC server. You have to provide your own server, just like with VNC.

    Nope. Simply open the (portable) EXE, other party does the same and
    provides ID and password, so you can connect with it. If you don't trust
    the RustDesk servers, then you can choose to set up your own server.

    --
    s|b

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From s|b@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Mon Aug 11 21:11:08 2025
    On Mon, 11 Aug 2025 19:31:43 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    I fear, if I need remote desktop in the future, I'll probably be back on TeamViewer - or one of the other similar. Or, possibly, nothing.

    I've been using TeamViewer for ages, but at one point it accused me of commercial use or I left the connection open for too long. Recently, I
    used RustDesk and my impression is that it's faster than TeamViewer.

    Setting it up is a no brainer: you download the portable EXE and run it.
    The other party does the same and provides you with an ID and password,
    exactly as in TeamViewer. RustDesk is also a bit smaller than
    TeamViewer's QuickSupport.

    RustDesk also allows you to set up favourites, so I'm assuming ID and
    password stay the same.

    --
    s|b

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Logies@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 11 22:40:05 2025
    I'm afraid you lost mr pretty early on - which is no criticism of your >answer, more of my ageing ability to absorb.

    With Google Chrome Remote Desktop, which is free and fast, you are up
    and running within 5-10 min. I don`t understand, why more complex
    should be better for an average user. Teamview has been annoying with
    its nag screens in the free version in the past..

    For a professional like me, RDP over a private VPN offers some
    advantages, but is more complex to set up.

    Regards

    M.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to All on Tue Aug 12 02:00:55 2025
    On 2025/8/11 20:11:8, s|b wrote:
    On Mon, 11 Aug 2025 19:31:43 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    I fear, if I need remote desktop in the future, I'll probably be back on
    TeamViewer - or one of the other similar. Or, possibly, nothing.

    I've been using TeamViewer for ages, but at one point it accused me of commercial use or I left the connection open for too long. Recently, I

    I had that once, or possibly twice. They reactivated me (or whatever the
    right word is), but it took a few days.

    used RustDesk and my impression is that it's faster than TeamViewer.

    Setting it up is a no brainer: you download the portable EXE and run it.
    The other party does the same and provides you with an ID and password, exactly as in TeamViewer. RustDesk is also a bit smaller than
    TeamViewer's QuickSupport.

    Ah. If you read the VLH post to which I was replying, you'll see why I
    was losing the will to live thinking about it. If it's really as simple
    as you say, I was worrying unnecessarily.>
    RustDesk also allows you to set up favourites, so I'm assuming ID and password stay the same.

    Presumably those are stored on their server.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    In the words of my grandpa, a woman is as old as she looks. A man is
    never old until he stops looking.
    - Alice Apfel, designer, 1921-2024 (102)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Aug 11 20:20:04 2025
    s|b <[email protected]d> wrote:

    I've been using TeamViewer for ages, but at one point it accused me of commercial use or I left the connection open for too long. Recently, I
    used RustDesk and my impression is that it's faster than TeamViewer.

    That could be due to where you are, and where is the public rendezvous
    Rustdesk server to which you connect. I found rs-ny.rustdesk.com
    mentioned, and my traceroute to it shows a huge jump in delay most
    likely caused by having to go over the undersea cable to connect the
    hosts across the pond.

    tracert rs-ny.rustdesk.com
    ...
    9 21 ms {myISP}
    10 21 ms ae8.cr9-chi1.ip4.gtt.net [63.141.223.245]
    11 115 ms ae2.cr2-ams13.ip4.gtt.net [141.136.106.174]
    12 114 ms ip4.gtt.net [154.14.36.78]
    13 * Request timed out.
    14 * Request timed out.
    15 115 ms 209.250.254.15.vultrusercontent.com [209.250.254.15]

    Even though the nodes on each side of the pond are with gtt.net, their
    own network spans the ocean across their data centers. GTT is global.
    The added latency impinges on every packet across the pond.

    You could do a traceroute on the Teamview rendezvous server to see if
    you going the other way across the pond.

    By the way, vultrusercontent.com resolves to 127.0.0.1. Odd it resolves
    to localhost. Likely they don't want you directly using that hostname
    since it is a frontend to redirect to their farm of actual servers.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Aug 11 20:35:18 2025
    s|b <[email protected]d> wrote:

    On Mon, 11 Aug 2025 13:03:33 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

    I've used Teamviewer in the past. You don't setup a server. They
    provide that. It is only to coordinate handshaking between the endpoint
    clients. Once they are connected, the server is no longer involved.

    For Rustdeak, just change their fluffy terminology of self-hosted server
    to just server, just like you have to do with a VNC server. You have to
    provide your own server, just like with VNC.

    Nope. Simply open the (portable) EXE, other party does the same and
    provides ID and password, so you can connect with it. If you don't trust
    the RustDesk servers, then you can choose to set up your own server.

    With your setup, you are using their rendezvous server to connect the
    endpoint hosts. Self-hosted servers means you create your own
    rendezvous server. Upon first reading, I thought Rustdesk required you
    to setup your own self-host server simply because they didn't make it
    obvious they had publicly accessible rendezvous servers (well, I only
    found one, and it appears they have a problem with the ever increasing
    workload on their "demo" server).

    As I noted using their own stats page, Rustdesk's public rendezvous
    server does not have high reliability (aka high uptime) per their own
    specs.

    https://rustdesk.github.io/uptime/history/rust-desk-public-rendezvous-server

    26% uptime seems high to you? 114 ms latency (sometimes up to 300 ms)
    seems low to you?

    I suspect if you paid for their closed-source versions that you get to
    connect to better servers with better load balancing and redundancy (aka
    a larger server farm).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Aug 11 20:39:43 2025
    s|b <[email protected]d> wrote:

    On Mon, 11 Aug 2025 08:53:03 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

    Teamviewer supplies their own servers. No setup by you. Rustdesk has
    you setup a self-hosted server just like you have to setup a VNC server.

    I saw a YouTube vid about that days ago and IIRC you can choose: either
    you use their servers or you set one up yourself. All I know is it works
    the same as TeamViewer. There's no setting up a server. You download the portable EXE and run it. The other party does the same and provides an
    ID and password, so you can connect with it.

    Yep, through their public rendezvous server. Neither client specifies
    the IP address of the other endpoint host. The server takes care of
    getting the IP addresses for the endpoint hosts, because each had to
    connect to the server, and TCP mandates a host getting a connection know
    the IP address of the host connecting to it. The ID is recorded at the
    server, so it know which connection from which host to join to a
    connection from the other host.

    You are not directly connecting between the endpoint hosts. They
    connect to the server, the server facilitates the handshaking between
    the endpoints, and then the server is out of the circuit while the
    endpoints talk directly to each other.

    Even in your simple Rustdesk (or Teamviewer) setup, you are still using
    a server.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Tue Aug 12 09:01:36 2025
    On 2025/8/12 2:35:18, VanguardLH wrote:

    []

    As I noted using their own stats page, Rustdesk's public rendezvous
    server does not have high reliability (aka high uptime) per their own
    specs.

    https://rustdesk.github.io/uptime/history/rust-desk-public-rendezvous-server

    26% uptime seems high to you? 114 ms latency (sometimes up to 300 ms)
    seems low to you?

    I suspect if you paid for their closed-source versions that you get to connect to better servers with better load balancing and redundancy (aka
    a larger server farm).

    1 in 4 chance of it working sounds pretty useless - unless (a) its
    uptime distribution is spread, i. e. it's up for say 1 second in 4, or
    maybe as long as 5 seconds in 20 AND (b) it's only needed to help the
    two ends establish connection. If it needs to be up throughout your
    connection, then 26% isn't usable, and the latency would also come into consideration.

    So - _does_ the server need to be there throughout your connection, or
    just to establish it? And if the latter, and it's only up 26% of the
    time, how long do you usually have to wait for it?

    (For that matter, does a TeamViewer connection use the server all the
    time or just initially? The fact that they know how long you stay
    connected [and allegedly decide you're commercial if you stay on too
    long] suggests it is a continuous thing, though that could be just it
    looks say once an hour, minute, whatever to see if you still are.)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Apologies to [those] who may have been harmed by the scientific
    inaccuracies in this post. - Roger Tilbury in UMRA, 2018-3-14

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rsutton@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Tue Aug 12 07:49:52 2025
    On 8/11/2025 9:09 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/8/10 19:42:45, s|b wrote:
    On Thu, 7 Aug 2025 15:20:49 +0200, Fokke Nauta wrote:

    I now use TightVNC for the two local W10 pc's. It didn't work with the
    two wifi W11 laptops.

    I've tried RustDesk a few days ago and found it more responsive than
    TeamViewer. I'm not sure, but I think you can set it up, so the ID and
    password of the guest devices (server) stay the same. You can create a
    list of favourites and you can 'discover peers' which I think is
    searching for clients/guests within the home network.

    I'm using the portable version, but it can also be installed for better
    results. I'll be advising family and friends to use RustDesk instead of
    TeamViewer.

    Is RustDesk free? Or free-for-personal-use (but has a commercial
    version, so there's the same danger of being cut of because they think
    you're commercial as can happen with TeamViewer?)


    I have recently switched to free nomachine for all my systems:
    Windows 10 (fully up to date)
    Windows 11 (fully up to date)
    Anduin Linux(fully up to date)
    Arch Linux (fully up to date)
    Fedora 41 (fully up to date)
    Ubuntu 24.04 LTS (fully up to date)
    Ubuntu 25.04 LTS (fully up to date)
    Ubuntu 2510 LTS (fully up to date)
    Mint 21-3 (fully up to date)
    Mint 22 (fully up to date)

    nomachine was easy to install and has given me no problems. I only use
    it on my home lan: no internet access even though they support it. YMMV
    but it works perfectly for my use case and I haven't found any 'edge' cases. Richard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Java Jive@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Tue Aug 12 12:35:51 2025
    On 2025-08-12 02:20, VanguardLH wrote:

    That could be due to where you are, and where is the public rendezvous Rustdesk server to which you connect. I found rs-ny.rustdesk.com
    mentioned, and my traceroute to it shows a huge jump in delay most
    likely caused by having to go over the undersea cable to connect the
    hosts across the pond.

    This interpretation in the last sentence is wrong, see below ...

    tracert rs-ny.rustdesk.com
    ...
    9 21 ms {myISP}
    10 21 ms ae8.cr9-chi1.ip4.gtt.net [63.141.223.245]
    11 115 ms ae2.cr2-ams13.ip4.gtt.net [141.136.106.174]
    12 114 ms ip4.gtt.net [154.14.36.78]
    13 * Request timed out.
    14 * Request timed out.
    15 115 ms 209.250.254.15.vultrusercontent.com [209.250.254.15]

    Whereas for me in Scotland, using a mobile broadband connection (because landlines around here are next to useless, and there is no FTTx in
    wildest Sutherland):

    11:04:08 D:\Temp>tracert rs-ny.rustdesk.com

    Tracing route to rs-ny.rustdesk.com [209.250.254.15]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:

    1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms [anonymised]
    2 23 ms 19 ms 19 ms [anonymised]
    3 * * * Request timed out.
    4 67 ms 90 ms 73 ms 172.26.19.1
    5 * * * Request timed out.
    6 * * * Request timed out.
    7 86 ms 69 ms 87 ms 172.26.24.93
    8 * * * Request timed out.
    9 71 ms 94 ms 83 ms 172.26.3.150
    10 91 ms 90 ms 102 ms 149.11.22.122
    11 * * * Request timed out.
    12 105 ms 71 ms 83 ms be2592.ccr42.lon13.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.60.245]
    13 106 ms 98 ms 99 ms be12488.ccr42.ams03.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.51.42]
    14 101 ms 104 ms 98 ms be2154.rcr22.ams06.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.50.206]
    15 111 ms 114 ms 98 ms 149.6.0.227
    16 * * * Request timed out.
    17 * * * Request timed out.
    18 114 ms 94 ms 97 ms 209.250.254.15.vultrusercontent.com [209.250.254.15]

    Trace complete.

    Again, see below ...

    Even though the nodes on each side of the pond are with gtt.net, their
    own network spans the ocean across their data centers. GTT is global.
    The added latency impinges on every packet across the pond.

    You could do a traceroute on the Teamview rendezvous server to see if
    you going the other way across the pond.

    By the way, vultrusercontent.com resolves to 127.0.0.1. Odd it resolves
    to localhost. Likely they don't want you directly using that hostname
    since it is a frontend to redirect to their farm of actual servers.

    'The pond' is crossed by optical fibres, which by definition carry
    signals at the speed of light for that medium, so, at the Atlantic's
    widest point of 4,600kms, signals will take 4,600/[between 300,000 (best
    case of a vacuum) and 61/0.000350 = 174,286 (worst case of a deliberate
    slowing down as a 'speed bump' described in the link below)] = between
    0.015s theoretical best case and 0.026s as a practical worst case, so
    between 15ms and 26ms. Even in the worst case, these delays are no
    worse than the fastest records in the traces above, and significantly
    less than most of them, so the delays are caused by other things, such
    as how the intervening systems are configured and/or how busy they are
    at the time.

    https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/80043/how-fast-does-light-travel-through-a-fibre-optic-cable

    "Some real-world data: The IEX stock exchange routes their traffic
    through 61km of wound up fiber as a speed bump for traders, which
    introduces 350 µs delay. See exchange.iex.io/about/speed-bump and youtu.be/d8BcCLLX4N4?t=159. The minimal delay from that should be 61km/c
    = 204 µs.They do not specify where the additional 146 µs delay comes
    from (e.g. reduced speed of light inside the fiber, longer travel
    distance, maybe even delay from the electric components that send and
    receive the signal). – Socowi Commented Oct 27, 2022 at 20:04"

    --

    Fake news kills!

    I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
    www.macfh.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Tue Aug 12 13:23:32 2025
    "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]> wrote:

    On 2025/8/12 2:35:18, VanguardLH wrote:

    []

    As I noted using their own stats page, Rustdesk's public rendezvous
    server does not have high reliability (aka high uptime) per their own
    specs.

    https://rustdesk.github.io/uptime/history/rust-desk-public-rendezvous-server >>
    26% uptime seems high to you? 114 ms latency (sometimes up to 300 ms)
    seems low to you?

    I suspect if you paid for their closed-source versions that you get to
    connect to better servers with better load balancing and redundancy (aka
    a larger server farm).

    1 in 4 chance of it working sounds pretty useless - unless (a) its
    uptime distribution is spread, i. e. it's up for say 1 second in 4, or
    maybe as long as 5 seconds in 20 AND (b) it's only needed to help the
    two ends establish connection. If it needs to be up throughout your connection, then 26% isn't usable, and the latency would also come into consideration.

    So - _does_ the server need to be there throughout your connection, or
    just to establish it? And if the latter, and it's only up 26% of the
    time, how long do you usually have to wait for it?

    (For that matter, does a TeamViewer connection use the server all the
    time or just initially? The fact that they know how long you stay
    connected [and allegedly decide you're commercial if you stay on too
    long] suggests it is a continuous thing, though that could be just it
    looks say once an hour, minute, whatever to see if you still are.)

    No, the rendezvous server is just to handle the initial handshaking
    between the endpoint hosts.

    With VNC, you can use a DDNS service to give a hostname to the WAN IP of
    your router, so you don't have to figure out what is its current dynamic
    IP address. Don't need DDNS if you get a static IP from your ISP. For
    DDNS, your host needs a DDNS updater client to update your DDNS account
    with your current dynamic IP address. You define a port forwarding rule
    (punch a hole) in your router's firewall to direct that traffic to
    whichever intranet host is running the VNC server. Hopefully you
    required a strong password at your VNC server to prevent invasion.
    That's for external traffic; i.e., one endpoint is your intranet host,
    and the other endpoint is across the Internet.

    For intranet-only setups, you don't need DDNS, but you might want to
    configure the upstream DHCP server in your router to assign fixed IP
    addresses to your intranet hosts (well, at least the one running the VNC server) by using their MAC address. That way, you don't have to check
    the current dynamic IP address at the VNC server host to then connect
    using a VNC client on another intranet host.

    However, with TeamViewer or Rustdesk using their own public rendezvous
    servers, you will always make an outbound connection to reach an
    external server to handle the handshaking between your intranet hosts.
    One intranet host goes outside to the rendezvous server, the other
    intranet host goes outside to the rendezvous server, and the server
    facilitates one intranet host to find the other one. If the outbound
    connects by your intranet hosts use HTTP to connect to the outside
    server, you don't need to define a firewall rule. The firewall should
    already have an HTTP rule to let your web browser to connect to outside
    hosts. If not using HTTP client to connect to the outside server, you
    probably will need to define a firewall rule.

    Some companies don't want to have traffic bounce outside their corporate network to reach a public rendezvous server just to connect between
    their own hosts inside their own network hence the need for a
    self-hosted rendezvous server running inside the corporate network.

    If all you are connecting are your intranet hosts, both Teamviewer and
    Rustdesk will require your intranet hosts to connect outside to the
    Internet to get at their public rendezvous servers. That connection is
    only short-lived for the server to facilitate one host finding another.
    After the server gets the endpoints connected, the server [should] steps
    out of the circuit. Those services do not want to pay for the bandwidth resources to pipe all your inter-host traffic through their network.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to Java Jive on Tue Aug 12 14:16:26 2025
    Java Jive <[email protected]d> wrote:

    On 2025-08-12 02:20, VanguardLH wrote:

    That could be due to where you are, and where is the public rendezvous
    Rustdesk server to which you connect. I found rs-ny.rustdesk.com
    mentioned, and my traceroute to it shows a huge jump in delay most
    likely caused by having to go over the undersea cable to connect the
    hosts across the pond.

    This interpretation in the last sentence is wrong, see below ...

    Satellites also incur jumps in latency.

    Mobile networks can be even worse for latency. Depends on what type of cellular network to which you connect, but also the number of hops and
    through which other networks your data traffic passes. See:

    https://mvno-index.com/the-latency-of-the-different-mobile-networks/

    I didn't bother to research for an Android app that would measure
    cellular data traffic latency (not bandwidth speed) to see what I might
    get at different web sites, especially on different continents. I found
    one at:

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.latencetech.mobilelatency&hl=en_US

    but didn't bother to install it just to soon afterward uninstall it.

    'The pond' is crossed by optical fibres, which by definition carry
    signals at the speed of light for that medium, ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_communications_cable

    Yes, the core are optical fibers. You can see a map of them at:

    https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

    Unfortunately the map doesn't specify the type of submarine cable for a particular route. For example, hover over the Atlantic Crossing-1 cable (purple), click on it, and the info panel shows some info, but not the
    type of cable.

    "Some real-world data: The IEX stock exchange routes their traffic
    through 61km of wound up fiber as a speed bump for traders, which
    introduces 350 �s delay.

    Based on that example, the Atlantic Crossing-1 fiber cable would incur
    350 microseconds x (14301 km / 61 km) = 82 ms. However, repeaters are
    required for the transatlantic cables, and add further delay.

    https://www.submarinenetworks.com/en/component/tags/tag/trans-atlantic

    Unforunately "low latency" doesn't provide an actual value. Some of the
    cables listed have latencies mentioned: 68 ms for AEConnect, 60 to 120
    ms for Ellalink, 56 ms for EXA Express (between New York and London).
    With AEConnect with its 5200 km span as another example, 68 ms x (14301
    km / 5200 km) = 187 ms for the AC-1 cable.

    I did find other info at:

    https://www.iptp.net/wp-content/uploads/IPTPMap_2017_1000x700-small.pdf

    which shows some latencies, like 64 ms from New York to London (scroll
    down to the bottom showing the concentric circles for major cities, and latencies to other cities). Worse is New York to Singapore at 252 ms.

    Theoreticals rarely equal actuals. For those using Rustdesk's or
    Teamviewer's public rendezvous servers, they need to measure latency for
    THEIR route to the server.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Java Jive on Tue Aug 12 15:29:07 2025
    On Tue, 8/12/2025 7:35 AM, Java Jive wrote:

    https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/80043/how-fast-does-light-travel-through-a-fibre-optic-cable

    "Some real-world data: The IEX stock exchange routes their traffic through 61km of wound up fiber as a speed bump for traders, which introduces 350 µs delay. See exchange.iex.io/about/speed-bump and youtu.be/d8BcCLLX4N4?t=159. The minimal delay from
    that should be 61km/c = 204 µs.They do not specify where the additional 146 µs delay comes from (e.g. reduced speed of light inside the fiber, longer travel distance, maybe even delay from the electric components that send and receive the signal). –
    Socowi Commented Oct 27, 2022 at 20:04"


    If you know the index of refraction, you know the speed of the light.

    The canonical value for the speed of light, is as measured in a vacuum.

    When the light travels through a material with an index of refraction,
    the light goes slower.

    AI Overview (ha!) [I should have asked for Olympic swimming pools]

    The speed of light in a vacuum is exactly 299,792,458 meters per second.

    *******

    The speed of light is exactly 299,792,458 meters per second in a vacuum.
    In a transparent solid or liquid, it is divided by the index of refraction.
    The index of refraction for glass is roughly 1.5. So the speed of light in
    a glass fiber optic will be close to 199,861,638 meters per second.

    I like how the index is "roughly 1.5", but the speed is good to nine digits :-)

    There is also an organic liquid, with n = 1.5, and if you put a little dab
    of that on the end of the fiber, when you screw two connectors together there is no reflection where they meet. And it has to be something that won't evaporate.

    At the rate that fiber optic data transmission has changed, it would be
    pretty hard today, to say what the thru-delay is on a fiber amp module.
    At some point, they started using DSP for signal recovery. And presumably
    this is along the lines of PAM-5 on Ethernet. This allows multiple bits to be recovered in one clock period. Then, if your fastest logic runs at 100GHz,
    you can have a higher rate cable, if say eight bits are encoded in the signal in each clock signal period.

    But just in general principles, the regen period cannot be all that long,
    or the device would need a "huge buffer".

    And when the housing of that thing is opened up, the solution is not
    physically all that big. It's not like a Colossus hides inside the housing.

    The distance between regenerators, has also improved markedly, so there
    aren't as many "lumps" in the cable as it goes across the ocean floor.

    A term that just popped into my head, is "soliton". And while the article mentions erbium doped amplifiers, I don't know if those are fast enough
    for a transatlantic cable today. The EDA was used at about 40Gbit/sec.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soliton_%28optics%29

    The cable is multi-spectral (uses more than one wavelength of light),
    the pulses are encoded with some sort of DSP (no article explained
    how that was done or what the pattern was). I guess it's a trade secret.
    All we need say, is "the datarate today... is damn high". It doesn't
    really matter any more, what that number is. It's just got a lotta zeros
    on it.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Java Jive@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Tue Aug 12 21:11:51 2025
    On 2025-08-12 20:16, VanguardLH wrote:
    Java Jive <[email protected]d> wrote:

    On 2025-08-12 02:20, VanguardLH wrote:

    That could be due to where you are, and where is the public rendezvous
    Rustdesk server to which you connect. I found rs-ny.rustdesk.com
    mentioned, and my traceroute to it shows a huge jump in delay most
    likely caused by having to go over the undersea cable to connect the
    hosts across the pond.

    This interpretation in the last sentence is wrong, see below ...

    Satellites also incur jumps in latency.

    Yes, but we're discussing undersea fibre-optic cables.

    Mobile networks can be even worse for latency.

    Yes, but we're discussing undersea fibre-optic cables.

    'The pond' is crossed by optical fibres, which by definition carry
    signals at the speed of light for that medium, ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_communications_cable

    Yes, the core are optical fibers. You can see a map of them at:

    https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

    Unfortunately the map doesn't specify the type of submarine cable for a particular route. For example, hover over the Atlantic Crossing-1 cable (purple), click on it, and the info panel shows some info, but not the
    type of cable.

    "Some real-world data: The IEX stock exchange routes their traffic
    through 61km of wound up fiber as a speed bump for traders, which
    introduces 350 µs delay.

    Based on that example, the Atlantic Crossing-1 fiber cable would incur
    350 microseconds x (14301 km / 61 km) = 82 ms. However, repeaters are required for the transatlantic cables, and add further delay.

    https://www.submarinenetworks.com/en/component/tags/tag/trans-atlantic

    Unforunately "low latency" doesn't provide an actual value. Some of the cables listed have latencies mentioned: 68 ms for AEConnect, 60 to 120
    ms for Ellalink, 56 ms for EXA Express (between New York and London).
    With AEConnect with its 5200 km span as another example, 68 ms x (14301
    km / 5200 km) = 187 ms for the AC-1 cable.

    I did find other info at:

    https://www.iptp.net/wp-content/uploads/IPTPMap_2017_1000x700-small.pdf

    which shows some latencies, like 64 ms from New York to London (scroll
    down to the bottom showing the concentric circles for major cities, and latencies to other cities). Worse is New York to Singapore at 252 ms.

    Theoreticals rarely equal actuals. For those using Rustdesk's or Teamviewer's public rendezvous servers, they need to measure latency for THEIR route to the server.

    All of which exactly supports my statement ...

    On 2025-08-12 12:35, Java Jive wrote:

    the delays are caused by other things, such as how the intervening
    systems are configured and/or how busy they are at the time.

    ... in other words, it's not the passage through fibre-optic that's the
    reason for tracert &/or rust timeouts, it's other things in the system.

    --

    Fake news kills!

    I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
    www.macfh.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to Java Jive on Tue Aug 12 17:24:08 2025
    Java Jive <[email protected]d> wrote:

    VanguardLH wrote:

    Mobile networks can be even worse for latency.

    Yes, but we're discussing undersea fibre-optic cables.

    Um, who brought mobile networks into the discussion? Oh, yeah, that was
    you. "Whereas for me in Scotland, using a mobile broadband connection".

    Theoreticals rarely equal actuals. For those using Rustdesk's or
    Teamviewer's public rendezvous servers, they need to measure latency for
    THEIR route to the server.

    All of which exactly supports my statement ...

    Um, who said to measure latency? That was me first. You brought in thereotical calculations (which were way off), and an example. I
    brought more examples. Yep, all of that supported my claim that the
    ocean cabling incurs a big jump in latency. Thanks for agreeing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Wed Aug 13 03:45:43 2025
    On 2025/8/12 19:23:32, VanguardLH wrote:

    []

    No, the rendezvous server is just to handle the initial handshaking
    between the endpoint hosts.

    Thanks - that's all I need to know.>

    Thanks for the detailed explanation that followed - but I'm afraid you
    lost me at the first line: "With strawberry, you can use a tangerine
    service to give a banana to the cherry of ...". OK, you didn't use
    fruits, but that's where I glazed over!

    [thirty something lines]

    If all you are connecting are your intranet hosts, both Teamviewer and Rustdesk will require your intranet hosts to connect outside to the
    Internet to get at their public rendezvous servers. That connection is
    only short-lived for the server to facilitate one host finding another.
    After the server gets the endpoints connected, the server [should] steps
    out of the circuit. Those services do not want to pay for the bandwidth resources to pipe all your inter-host traffic through their network.
    That makes sense. (Though do TeamViewer at least have a look, maybe
    every few minutes or even just once an hour, so they can see you and
    accuse you of being commercial?)So: Rust only needs to be there for your initial connection. So, of what nature is its alleged only 26% uptime -
    does it go off for hours (or days, or weeks) at a time, or does it pop
    up every few seconds - or maybe at minute intervals, if its software
    doesn't time out for that long? If it comes up _reasonably_ often, and
    for long enough to help you make a connection, it's a usable alternative
    to TeamViewer; if it goes off for hours, it isn't.
    The other figure someone mentioned - latency - presumably isn't that
    much of a problem if the server is only used when establishing a connection.

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    I've never really "got" sport or physical exercise. The only muscle I've
    ever enjoyed exercising is the one between my ears.
    - Beryl Hales, Radio Times 24-30 March 2012

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Java Jive@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Wed Aug 13 05:10:18 2025
    On 2025-08-12 23:24, VanguardLH wrote:

    Java Jive <[email protected]d> wrote:

    VanguardLH wrote:

    Mobile networks can be even worse for latency.

    Yes, but we're discussing undersea fibre-optic cables.

    Um, who brought mobile networks into the discussion? Oh, yeah, that was
    you. "Whereas for me in Scotland, using a mobile broadband connection".

    It was merely there to document how the tracert was performed, it had no
    other significance.

    Theoreticals rarely equal actuals. For those using Rustdesk's or
    Teamviewer's public rendezvous servers, they need to measure latency for >>> THEIR route to the server.

    All of which exactly supports my statement ...

    Um, who said to measure latency? That was me first.

    Yes, but then you drew the wrong conclusion - or perhaps only stated
    it ambiguously giving an erroneous impression of what you believed, but
    given your subsequent reply, I don't think so ... whatever.

    You brought in
    thereotical calculations (which were way off), and an example.

    On the contrary, the calculations were reasonably accurate, certainly
    accurate enough to show that the problems with latency had little or
    nothing to do with crossing the Atlantic. See below ...

    I
    brought more examples.

    Which were wrong, as the link you gave, which you clearly didn't bother
    to read properly, stated in its description - BTW note that the
    Atlantic is 4,600 kms wide AT ITS WIDEST POINT as per my ball-park
    calculation, that should have alerted you that you were making some sort
    of mistake [my emphasis]:

    "The AC-1 (Atlantic Crossing 1) is a 14,000 km trans-Atlantic submarine
    cable *SYSTEM* linking the USA and three European countries, the U.K.,
    the Netherlands and Germany.

    [...]

    The AC-1 cable system comprises four fiber self-healing Synchronous
    Digital Hierarchy (SDH) *RING* network connecting the United States with
    the United Kingdom and Germany, with an initial design system capacity
    of 40Gbps (8*2.5G DWDM, 2 fiber pairs).

    The AC-1 cable lands at the following cable landing stations:

    Brookhaven Cable Landing Station, the United States,
    Whitesands Bay Cable Landing Station, the United Kingdom
    Deutsche Telekom's Sylt Cable Landing Station, Germany
    KPN's Beverwijk Cable Landing Station, Netherlands"

    So it's a ring network, and 14,000kms is its total length, but the
    distance between any two nodes on the ring is going to be much, much
    less, similar to the 5-6000 km lengths given for the more recent cables described further down on that same page.

    Yep, all of that supported my claim that the
    ocean cabling incurs a big jump in latency.

    The fibre-optical cabling itself does not contribute significantly to
    the latency, as I demonstrated, it's the other paraphernalia in the
    system that's responsible for most of it.

    Thanks for agreeing.

    You really do need to grow up and learn to admit when you're wrong.

    --

    Fake news kills!

    I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
    www.macfh.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From wasbit@21:1/5 to rsutton on Wed Aug 13 09:26:12 2025
    On 12/08/2025 12:49, rsutton wrote:
    On 8/11/2025 9:09 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/8/10 19:42:45, s|b wrote:
    On Thu, 7 Aug 2025 15:20:49 +0200, Fokke Nauta wrote:

    I now use TightVNC for the two local W10 pc's. It didn't work with the >>>> two wifi W11 laptops.

    I've tried RustDesk a few days ago and found it more responsive than
    TeamViewer. I'm not sure, but I think you can set it up, so the ID and
    password of the guest devices (server) stay the same. You can create a
    list of favourites and you can 'discover peers' which I think is
    searching for clients/guests within the home network.

    I'm using the portable version, but it can also be installed for better
    results. I'll be advising family and friends to use RustDesk instead of
    TeamViewer.

    Is RustDesk free? Or free-for-personal-use (but has a commercial
    version, so there's the same danger of being cut of because they think
    you're commercial as can happen with TeamViewer?)


    I have recently switched to free nomachine for all my systems:
    Windows 10 (fully up to date)
    Windows 11 (fully up to date)
    Anduin Linux(fully up to date)
    Arch Linux (fully up to date)
    Fedora 41 (fully up to date)
    Ubuntu 24.04 LTS (fully up to date)
    Ubuntu 25.04 LTS (fully up to date)
    Ubuntu 2510 LTS (fully up to date)
    Mint 21-3 (fully up to date)
    Mint 22 (fully up to date)

    nomachine was easy to install and has given me no problems. I only use
    it on my home lan: no internet access even though they support it.  YMMV
    but it works perfectly for my use case and I haven't found any 'edge'
    cases.
    Richard

    Presumably
    - https://www.nomachine.com/


    --
    Regards
    wasbit

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to wasbit on Wed Aug 13 11:39:30 2025
    On 13/08/2025 10:26, wasbit wrote:
    On 12/08/2025 12:49, rsutton wrote:
    On 8/11/2025 9:09 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/8/10 19:42:45, s|b wrote:
    On Thu, 7 Aug 2025 15:20:49 +0200, Fokke Nauta wrote:

    I now use TightVNC for the two local W10 pc's. It didn't work with the >>>>> two wifi W11 laptops.

    I've tried RustDesk a few days ago and found it more responsive than
    TeamViewer. I'm not sure, but I think you can set it up, so the ID and >>>> password of the guest devices (server) stay the same. You can create a >>>> list of favourites and you can 'discover peers' which I think is
    searching for clients/guests within the home network.

    I'm using the portable version, but it can also be installed for better >>>> results. I'll be advising family and friends to use RustDesk instead of >>>> TeamViewer.

    Is RustDesk free? Or free-for-personal-use (but has a commercial
    version, so there's the same danger of being cut of because they think
    you're commercial as can happen with TeamViewer?)


    I have recently switched to free nomachine for all my systems:
    Windows 10 (fully up to date)
    Windows 11 (fully up to date)
    Anduin Linux(fully up to date)
    Arch Linux (fully up to date)
    Fedora 41 (fully up to date)
    Ubuntu 24.04 LTS (fully up to date)
    Ubuntu 25.04 LTS (fully up to date)
    Ubuntu 2510 LTS (fully up to date)
    Mint 21-3 (fully up to date)
    Mint 22 (fully up to date)

    nomachine was easy to install and has given me no problems. I only use
    it on my home lan: no internet access even though they support it.
    YMMV but it works perfectly for my use case and I haven't found any
    'edge' cases.
    Richard

    Presumably
     - https://www.nomachine.com/



    I've just downloaded it. I'm gonna have a look at it.

    Fokke

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Wed Aug 13 12:13:17 2025
    On 2025/8/13 10:39:30, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    On 13/08/2025 10:26, wasbit wrote:
    On 12/08/2025 12:49, rsutton wrote:

    []

    I have recently switched to free nomachine for all my systems:

    []

    nomachine was easy to install and has given me no problems. I only use

    []

    Presumably
     - https://www.nomachine.com/



    I've just downloaded it. I'm gonna have a look at it.

    Fokke

    Please tell us how usable/reliable/whatever you find it.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Everyone learns from science. It all depends how you use the knowledge.
    - "Gil Grissom" (CSI).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Wed Aug 13 18:33:32 2025
    On 13/08/2025 13:13, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/8/13 10:39:30, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    On 13/08/2025 10:26, wasbit wrote:
    On 12/08/2025 12:49, rsutton wrote:

    []

    I have recently switched to free nomachine for all my systems:

    []

    nomachine was easy to install and has given me no problems. I only use

    []

    Presumably
     - https://www.nomachine.com/



    I've just downloaded it. I'm gonna have a look at it.

    Fokke

    Please tell us how usable/reliable/whatever you find it.

    I have installed it on a W10 Pro pc.
    I would advice not to use it. It's not user friendly, and it doesn't
    work with a client and a server, as other VNC programs work. It has its
    own network. I didn't like it and didn't go any further.
    I uninstalled it.

    Fokke

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Wed Aug 13 12:52:49 2025
    Fokke Nauta <[email protected]> wrote:

    I have installed it on a W10 Pro pc.
    I would advice not to use it. It's not user friendly, and it doesn't
    work with a client and a server, as other VNC programs work. It has its
    own network. I didn't like it and didn't go any further.
    I uninstalled it.

    From what I read at its web site, to get on the network means you
    publish your host there, so anyone can find it. Not just you. That
    would immediately cause a flurry of activity by me if I tried it to
    ensure my hosts were VERY secure from outsiders.

    Their "network" does the DDNS work that I mentioned with VNC setups, but
    I don't like publishing my host(s) to others. Perhaps their "network"
    where you publish your hosts is secure enough, but I didn't delve into
    it since I won't be using it.

    https://www.nomachine.com/network

    Hopefully they worked out how you use their network to find your hosts
    (similar to DDNS) without exposing them to attack by others.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From s|b@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Wed Aug 13 21:28:13 2025
    On Mon, 11 Aug 2025 20:35:18 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

    With your setup, you are using their rendezvous server to connect the endpoint hosts. Self-hosted servers means you create your own
    rendezvous server. Upon first reading, I thought Rustdesk required you
    to setup your own self-host server simply because they didn't make it
    obvious they had publicly accessible rendezvous servers (well, I only
    found one, and it appears they have a problem with the ever increasing workload on their "demo" server).

    They refer to this site for a free server: <https://rustdesk.com/docs/en/self-host/rustdesk-server-oss/>

    I'm not so familiar with Docker (it's something like VM?), but I'm
    wondering: if I were to create my own server with Docker and run that on Windows while I connect to the other party, would that work? Probably
    have to do some portforwarding...

    --
    s|b

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From s|b@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Wed Aug 13 21:21:35 2025
    On Tue, 12 Aug 2025 02:00:55 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    Setting it up is a no brainer: you download the portable EXE and run it. The other party does the same and provides you with an ID and password, exactly as in TeamViewer. RustDesk is also a bit smaller than
    TeamViewer's QuickSupport.

    Ah. If you read the VLH post to which I was replying, you'll see why I
    was losing the will to live thinking about it. If it's really as simple
    as you say, I was worrying unnecessarily.>

    I got my 70+ aunt (who claimed the TeamViewer QuickSupport wasn't on her Desktop where I left it last time) to run it successfully.

    RustDesk also allows you to set up favourites, so I'm assuming ID and password stay the same.

    Presumably those are stored on their server.

    I guess. Today I downloaded the EXE on my mother's PC and after running
    it says two things: because of UAC it states it may be better to install
    and 'For faster connection, please set up your own server'

    Which can be done for free: <https://rustdesk.com/docs/en/self-host/rustdesk-server-oss/>

    --
    s|b

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  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Aug 13 17:09:29 2025
    s|b <[email protected]d> wrote:

    VanguardLH wrote:

    With your setup, you are using their rendezvous server to connect the
    endpoint hosts. Self-hosted servers means you create your own
    rendezvous server. Upon first reading, I thought Rustdesk required you
    to setup your own self-host server simply because they didn't make it
    obvious they had publicly accessible rendezvous servers (well, I only
    found one, and it appears they have a problem with the ever increasing
    workload on their "demo" server).

    They refer to this site for a free server: <https://rustdesk.com/docs/en/self-host/rustdesk-server-oss/>

    That is a free *self-host* server that you setup, run, maintain, and
    secure. Most users don't want to bother with all that, so, to be
    similar to TeamViewer, they operate a public rendezvous server, so users
    just use the their client on each endpoint host.

    If you are familiar with installing and configuring a VNC server, along
    with punching holes in firewalls, defining port forwarding rules, and
    using DDNS if your endpoint hosts don't get static IP addresses, then
    you have the wherewithall to figure out how to use Rustdesk's
    self-hosted rendezvous server.

    Think of someone asking how to view image files. They could use
    Irfanview, XnView, FastStone, etc. They weren't asking how to edit
    image files using Paint.NET, GIMP, Photoshop, etc. They don't need nor
    want a plethora of features they won't use. They want quick and easy
    viewing only.

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  • From s|b@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Thu Aug 14 13:27:31 2025
    On Wed, 13 Aug 2025 17:09:29 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

    If you are familiar with installing and configuring a VNC server, along
    with punching holes in firewalls, defining port forwarding rules, and
    using DDNS if your endpoint hosts don't get static IP addresses, then
    you have the wherewithall to figure out how to use Rustdesk's
    self-hosted rendezvous server.

    Think of someone asking how to view image files. They could use
    Irfanview, XnView, FastStone, etc. They weren't asking how to edit
    image files using Paint.NET, GIMP, Photoshop, etc. They don't need nor
    want a plethora of features they won't use. They want quick and easy
    viewing only.

    Doesn't matter if I'm the one viewing. If I can set up the server and
    other settings like portforwarding, then I could use my own server
    instead of trusting a third party server. Also, RustDesk claims using
    your own server is faster.

    --
    s|b

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  • From rsutton@21:1/5 to Fokke Nauta on Thu Aug 14 08:22:33 2025
    On 8/13/2025 12:33 PM, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    On 13/08/2025 13:13, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/8/13 10:39:30, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    On 13/08/2025 10:26, wasbit wrote:
    On 12/08/2025 12:49, rsutton wrote:

    []

    I have recently switched to free nomachine for all my systems:

    []

    nomachine was easy to install and has given me no problems. I only use

    []

    Presumably
       - https://www.nomachine.com/



    I've just downloaded it. I'm gonna have a look at it.

    Fokke

    Please tell us how usable/reliable/whatever you find it.

    I have installed it on a W10 Pro pc.
    I would advice not to use it. It's not user friendly, and it doesn't
    work with a client and a server, as other VNC programs work. It has its
    own network. I didn't like it and didn't go any further.
    I uninstalled it.

    Fokke

    Fokke,
    You don't have to use their 'network' if you confine it to just your
    lan. That's what I do. I don't allow these company servers to have my
    info, either. I just use it as a more reliable program that runs
    equally well on my linux desktops on my lan. I don't remember if you
    needed remote internet access.
    Richard

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  • From Fokke Nauta@21:1/5 to rsutton on Thu Aug 14 16:00:36 2025
    On 14/08/2025 14:22, rsutton wrote:
    On 8/13/2025 12:33 PM, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    On 13/08/2025 13:13, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/8/13 10:39:30, Fokke Nauta wrote:
    On 13/08/2025 10:26, wasbit wrote:
    On 12/08/2025 12:49, rsutton wrote:

    []

    I have recently switched to free nomachine for all my systems:

    []

    nomachine was easy to install and has given me no problems. I only >>>>>> use

    []

    Presumably
       - https://www.nomachine.com/



    I've just downloaded it. I'm gonna have a look at it.

    Fokke

    Please tell us how usable/reliable/whatever you find it.

    I have installed it on a W10 Pro pc.
    I would advice not to use it. It's not user friendly, and it doesn't
    work with a client and a server, as other VNC programs work. It has
    its own network. I didn't like it and didn't go any further.
    I uninstalled it.

    Fokke

    Fokke,
    You don't have to use their 'network' if you confine it to just your
    lan.  That's what I do.  I don't allow these company servers to have my info, either.  I just use it as a more reliable program that runs
    equally well on my linux desktops on my lan.  I don't remember if you
    needed remote internet access.
    Richard

    Hi Richard,

    Well, I don't need NoMachine anyway. Just tried it.
    I use VNCViewer for my both W10 pc's and RealVNC for two W11 wifi
    laptops. It all works well.

    Fokke

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