• Re: Kindle, short file names, and other matters

    From WolfFan@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Sun Jul 27 10:08:57 2025
    On Jul 27, 2025, J. P. Gilliver wrote
    (in article <10659gp$1kcc7$[email protected]>):

    I'd be interested in comments - in particular,
    (a) is the access limited to just this PC?

    access is limited to devices which log into Amazon using your Amazon account.
    I think that there’s an upper limit on how many devices can be live on
    Kindle at a time, but I can’t be arsed to look it up, and I know that
    it’s at least 5 because I have five devices (one iPad, one iPhone, one Mac, one Win 7 system, one Win 10 system) live, as in can read and order books, right now. (The Win 7 system is ‘legacy’ and I don’t know how much
    longer it will be available.)

    (b) can Amazon remotely delete it? (This PC is online most of the time.)

    Yes. They have done this in the past. https://gizmodo.com/amazon-secretly-removes-1984-from-the-kindle-5317703 And, yes, I found it funny that 1984, of all books, was unpersoned.

    I use calibre to de-DRM and convert Kindle files to EPUB and stick them far away from Kindle, though lately it’s becoming more and more painful to
    de-DRM the books. Which means that I don’t buy many DRMed books from
    Amazon; certain publishers and/or authors insist that their stuff not be encumbered by DRM, and I buy a lot of that kind of book. I also buy from sources which aren’t as annoying with the DRM and de-DRM using calibre. Amazon can’t touch an EPUB stored on a volume other than the volume containing the Kindle content. I use an ebook reader not from Amazon (or
    Apple, or Kobo...) to access de-DRMed content.

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 27 14:27:53 2025
    So far, I've resisted going Kindle, as I do not understand, am
    suspicious, of how it works - remote control of what I have, it seems.

    However, I recently read about a book that is useful for genealogy (if
    anyone's interested, it's The Oxford Dictionary of Family Names in
    Britain and Ireland - see https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/latejul25news.htm#Oxford for
    details), so I took the plunge. (The above link told me I don't have to
    have a Kindle device, I can "download the Kindle app" for the computer.)

    First, I tried to download it from the link provided, but was told I
    don't have any devices registered, or some such wording - but it did
    include a link to get the "app". So I did, and then was able to get the
    book.

    Among other things, I ended up with a directory
    D:\document.etc\My Kindle Content (which I had accepted during the
    process). [D:\document.etc is my "documents" folder.] Curiously, doing a
    "dir /x m*.*" from document.etc shows that MKC _doesn't_ have a short
    filename.

    Within MKC, there appear to be three items: a 112 KB file called
    book_asset.db, a directory called NoteDocuments which appears to be
    empty, and a subfolder called B01N41TEO3_EBOK. None of these seem to
    have short names.

    I say _appear_, because a size indicator I like to use - scanner, from
    Steffen Gerlach (http://www.steffengerlach.de/freeware/), when pointed
    at MKD, doesn't see the B* subdirectory.

    Anyway, within B01N41TEO3_EBOK are about 21 files - a .voucher file of
    size 1,165, 18 .res files and a .md file all of about 1-3 MB, and a .azw
    file of 45.4 MB, totalling 97.4 MB (all sizes according to scanner).

    Double-clicking on the .azw file causes "J.'s Kindle for PC" to open, displaying the book.

    Because of my - OK, paranoia - about Kindle, I verified that this (double-clicking on the file) worked with my internet connection
    disconnected: in other words, both the book and the software to access
    it are definitely on my PC.

    I'd be interested in comments - in particular,
    (a) is the access limited to just this PC?
    (b) can Amazon remotely delete it? (This PC is online most of the time.)

    Plus are the files and folders as they appear, or is what I see in File Explorer a fiction? (On my Windows 7 32 bit machine, I used to use Xtree
    Gold to see what was really going on, but that won't work under 10-64 [I
    think it's the 64 that stops it rather than the 10].) And I didn't know
    things could exist without a short (8.3) name, but "dir /?" - under /X - implies they can.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    The early worm gets the bird.

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to WolfFan on Sun Jul 27 16:22:42 2025
    On 2025/7/27 15:8:57, WolfFan wrote:
    On Jul 27, 2025, J. P. Gilliver wrote
    (in article <10659gp$1kcc7$[email protected]>):

    I'd be interested in comments - in particular,
    (a) is the access limited to just this PC?

    access is limited to devices which log into Amazon using your Amazon account. I think that there’s an upper limit on how many devices can be live on Kindle at a time, but I can’t be arsed to look it up, and I know that it’s at least 5 because I have five devices (one iPad, one iPhone, one Mac, one Win 7 system, one Win 10 system) live, as in can read and order books, right now. (The Win 7 system is ‘legacy’ and I don’t know how much longer it will be available.)

    You snipped the bit where I verified that I can access the book with my internet connection turned off - i. e. both the book, and the software
    to access it, are definitely on this machine.>>
    (b) can Amazon remotely delete it? (This PC is online most of the time.)

    Yes. They have done this in the past. https://gizmodo.com/amazon-secretly-removes-1984-from-the-kindle-5317703 And, yes, I found it funny that 1984, of all books, was unpersoned.

    I use calibre to de-DRM and convert Kindle files to EPUB and stick them far

    Can you point me at calibre? (I suspect googling that word would bring
    me lots of hits on guns and ammunition!)

    away from Kindle, though lately it’s becoming more and more painful to de-DRM the books. Which means that I don’t buy many DRMed books from Amazon; certain publishers and/or authors insist that their stuff not be

    This one was actually free, though not presented as such: it was
    presented as having a cost of 0.00, without the word free anywhere I
    could see.

    encumbered by DRM, and I buy a lot of that kind of book. I also buy from sources which aren’t as annoying with the DRM and de-DRM using calibre. Amazon can’t touch an EPUB stored on a volume other than the volume containing the Kindle content. I use an ebook reader not from Amazon (or Apple, or Kobo...) to access de-DRMed content.

    Ah, so even when converted to "EPUB", you still need a special
    "reader".If (some) publishers/authors insist their stuff isn't DRM'd, is
    there a reason these works are in EPUB, rather than, say, .pdf, .rtf,
    .txt, or .doc(x)?
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    No sense being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway.
    - Penny Mayes, UMRA, 2014-August

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  • From Ed Cryer@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Sun Jul 27 16:22:47 2025
    J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    So far, I've resisted going Kindle, as I do not understand, am
    suspicious, of how it works - remote control of what I have, it seems.

    However, I recently read about a book that is useful for genealogy (if anyone's interested, it's The Oxford Dictionary of Family Names in
    Britain and Ireland - see https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/latejul25news.htm#Oxford for details), so I took the plunge. (The above link told me I don't have to
    have a Kindle device, I can "download the Kindle app" for the computer.)

    First, I tried to download it from the link provided, but was told I
    don't have any devices registered, or some such wording - but it did
    include a link to get the "app". So I did, and then was able to get the
    book.

    Among other things, I ended up with a directory
    D:\document.etc\My Kindle Content (which I had accepted during the
    process). [D:\document.etc is my "documents" folder.] Curiously, doing a
    "dir /x m*.*" from document.etc shows that MKC _doesn't_ have a short filename.

    Within MKC, there appear to be three items: a 112 KB file called book_asset.db, a directory called NoteDocuments which appears to be
    empty, and a subfolder called B01N41TEO3_EBOK. None of these seem to
    have short names.

    I say _appear_, because a size indicator I like to use - scanner, from Steffen Gerlach (http://www.steffengerlach.de/freeware/), when pointed
    at MKD, doesn't see the B* subdirectory.

    Anyway, within B01N41TEO3_EBOK are about 21 files - a .voucher file of
    size 1,165, 18 .res files and a .md file all of about 1-3 MB, and a .azw
    file of 45.4 MB, totalling 97.4 MB (all sizes according to scanner).

    Double-clicking on the .azw file causes "J.'s Kindle for PC" to open, displaying the book.

    Because of my - OK, paranoia - about Kindle, I verified that this (double-clicking on the file) worked with my internet connection disconnected: in other words, both the book and the software to access
    it are definitely on my PC.

    I'd be interested in comments - in particular,
    (a) is the access limited to just this PC?
    (b) can Amazon remotely delete it? (This PC is online most of the time.)

    Plus are the files and folders as they appear, or is what I see in File Explorer a fiction? (On my Windows 7 32 bit machine, I used to use Xtree
    Gold to see what was really going on, but that won't work under 10-64 [I think it's the 64 that stops it rather than the 10].) And I didn't know things could exist without a short (8.3) name, but "dir /?" - under /X - implies they can.

    Calibre is far preferable, as Wolfan says; and free, and well attested
    by yours truly over the years.
    Uninstall whatever new apps have been installed in Control Centre/
    Programs (order them in installed date order, which will make sneaked-in
    ones quicker to spot), and get Calibre.
    There is also a plugin that handles DRM in Kindle files. You can get it
    here;
    https://www.epubor.com/calibre-drm-removal-plugins.html
    Read the installation guide carefully.

    Oh, and for the future try and stick with EPUB format for ebooks.
    They're usually more error-free than Kindle ones.

    Ed

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  • From croy@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 27 09:18:58 2025
    On Sun, 27 Jul 2025 16:22:42 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]>
    wrote:


    Can you point me at calibre? (I suspect googling that word would bring
    me lots of hits on guns and ammunition!)

    https://calibre-ebook.com/

    --
    croy

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  • From WolfFan@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Sun Jul 27 13:22:45 2025
    On Jul 27, 2025, J. P. Gilliver wrote
    (in article <1065g82$1kcc7$[email protected]>):

    On 2025/7/27 15:8:57, WolfFan wrote:
    On Jul 27, 2025, J. P. Gilliver wrote
    (in article <10659gp$1kcc7$[email protected]>):

    I'd be interested in comments - in particular,
    (a) is the access limited to just this PC?

    access is limited to devices which log into Amazon using your Amazon account.
    I think that there’s an upper limit on how many devices can be live on Kindle at a time, but I can’t be arsed to look it up, and I know that it’s at least 5 because I have five devices (one iPad, one iPhone, one Mac,
    one Win 7 system, one Win 10 system) live, as in can read and order books, right now. (The Win 7 system is ‘legacy’ and I don’t know how much longer it will be available.)

    You snipped the bit where I verified that I can access the book with my internet connection turned off - i. e. both the book, and the software
    to access it, are definitely on this machine.>>
    (b) can Amazon remotely delete it? (This PC is online most of the time.)

    Yes. They have done this in the past. https://gizmodo.com/amazon-secretly-removes-1984-from-the-kindle-5317703 And,
    yes, I found it funny that 1984, of all books, was unpersoned.

    I use calibre to de-DRM and convert Kindle files to EPUB and stick them far

    Can you point me at calibre? (I suspect googling that word would bring
    me lots of hits on guns and ammunition!)

    away from Kindle, though lately it’s becoming more and more painful to de-DRM the books. Which means that I don’t buy many DRMed books from Amazon; certain publishers and/or authors insist that their stuff not be

    This one was actually free, though not presented as such: it was
    presented as having a cost of 0.00, without the word free anywhere I
    could see.

    encumbered by DRM, and I buy a lot of that kind of book. I also buy from sources which aren’t as annoying with the DRM and de-DRM using calibre. Amazon can’t touch an EPUB stored on a volume other than the volume containing the Kindle content. I use an ebook reader not from Amazon (or Apple, or Kobo...) to access de-DRMed content.
    Ah, so even when converted to "EPUB", you still need a special
    "reader".If (some) publishers/authors insist their stuff isn't DRM'd, is there a reason these works are in EPUB, rather than, say, .pdf, .rtf,
    .txt, or .doc(x)?

    EPUB does book-type things better than PDF or RTF or DOC(X). TXT doesn’t do images or formatting and so isn’t suitable for a lot of books. EPUB flows better, can handle chapters (if present) better, and can display better on
    many devices. PDF is the best of the above formats, but isn’t as good as
    EPUB for most books. Amazon’s Kindle formats (there are at least a half dozen) range from about as good as EPUB to slightly better tham PDF. There
    are a _lot_ of ebook readers out there, virtually all of which can handle
    EPUB but not necesarily Kindle formats, mostly due to DRM.

    I like calibre. It’s free and can handle most formats, though it may choke
    on some Kindle DRM if you don’t have the correct 3rd-party extensions
    loaded. The main problem is the actual reader sub app has its quirks. That,
    and the fact that there’s no calibre for iPad, so I have to use something else there. I used to use Marvin, but that’s dead and I’m trying out alternatives. Apple’s Books isn’t bad, and will take de-DRMed EPUBs, but
    I prefer something not from The Mothership, mostly because Books insists on sticking the library onto iCloud so that you ‘can share the content with
    all devices logged in with your AppleID or with Family Sharing’ and I’d really rather not. Especially as I would have to be online to access iCloud
    in the first place.

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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to WolfFan on Sun Jul 27 20:12:36 2025
    On 2025-07-27 19:22, WolfFan wrote:
    On Jul 27, 2025, J. P. Gilliver wrote
    (in article <1065g82$1kcc7$[email protected]>):

    On 2025/7/27 15:8:57, WolfFan wrote:
    On Jul 27, 2025, J. P. Gilliver wrote
    (in article <10659gp$1kcc7$[email protected]>):

    ...

    I use calibre to de-DRM and convert Kindle files to EPUB and stick them far >>
    Can you point me at calibre? (I suspect googling that word would bring
    me lots of hits on guns and ammunition!)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calibre_(software)

    ...

    encumbered by DRM, and I buy a lot of that kind of book. I also buy from >>> sources which aren’t as annoying with the DRM and de-DRM using calibre. >>> Amazon can’t touch an EPUB stored on a volume other than the volume
    containing the Kindle content. I use an ebook reader not from Amazon (or >>> Apple, or Kobo...) to access de-DRMed content.
    Ah, so even when converted to "EPUB", you still need a special
    "reader".If (some) publishers/authors insist their stuff isn't DRM'd, is
    there a reason these works are in EPUB, rather than, say, .pdf, .rtf,
    .txt, or .doc(x)?

    EPUB does book-type things better than PDF or RTF or DOC(X). TXT doesn’t do images or formatting and so isn’t suitable for a lot of books. EPUB flows better, can handle chapters (if present) better, and can display better on many devices. PDF is the best of the above formats, but isn’t as good as EPUB for most books.

    It doesn't reflow. On epub you can choose the font and font size, the
    entire book reflows and changes the number of pages. With PDF you can
    not do this. Ok, you can sometimes, but it is a kludge.

    When reading on an electronic book changing the font size is an
    important feature, to adapt to your eyesight and preferences.

    Amazon’s Kindle formats (there are at least a half
    dozen) range from about as good as EPUB to slightly better tham PDF. There are a _lot_ of ebook readers out there, virtually all of which can handle EPUB but not necesarily Kindle formats, mostly due to DRM.

    I like calibre. It’s free and can handle most formats, though it may choke on some Kindle DRM if you don’t have the correct 3rd-party extensions loaded. The main problem is the actual reader sub app has its quirks. That, and the fact that there’s no calibre for iPad, so I have to use something else there. I used to use Marvin, but that’s dead and I’m trying out alternatives. Apple’s Books isn’t bad, and will take de-DRMed EPUBs, but I prefer something not from The Mothership, mostly because Books insists on sticking the library onto iCloud so that you ‘can share the content with all devices logged in with your AppleID or with Family Sharing’ and I’d really rather not. Especially as I would have to be online to access iCloud in the first place.

    With Kobo it is possible to dedrm a book, and have it on the structure maintained by Calibre instead of Kobo's own.


    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 27 20:14:25 2025
    On 2025-07-27 15:27, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    I don't understand why you want short file names or bother with them.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to John Hall on Sun Jul 27 20:52:55 2025
    On 2025-07-27 20:22, John Hall wrote:

    (b) can Amazon remotely delete it? (This PC is online most of the time.)

    I imagine in theory they could, but I can't see why they'd want to.

    I confess I've largely gone over to reading on Kindle nowadays, mainly because I was running out of room to store any more physical books.
    There are also some amazing bargains to be had, especially for books
    that are out of copyright. It's also handy if I'm going away on holiday,
    as I no longer need to put several heavy books in my luggage.

    Same here, but with a Kobo.

    Yes, they deleted one book once. I complained that it had too many
    errors, and instead of correcting them, they refunded the money and
    deleted it. But I still have my archived dedrmed version.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

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  • From John Hall@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Jul 27 19:22:50 2025
    In message <10659gp$1kcc7$[email protected]>, J. P. Gilliver
    <[email protected]> writes
    [about Kindle]
    I'd be interested in comments - in particular,
    (a) is the access limited to just this PC?

    No. The master version of your Kindle library lives somewhere on
    Amazon's website. Assuming you have an account with Amazon, you can also
    access it from another PC (I assume, though I've never tried that), from
    your Kindle device should you acquire one, or via the Kindle app on your Android smartphone and/or tablet (should you have one). Kindle offers a
    sync function, so that after clicking on it you can resume reading a
    book from the point where you left off on a different device. Obviously
    you need to be online for that so it can download the necessary info
    (including the book itself if you've not previously opened it on this
    device).

    (b) can Amazon remotely delete it? (This PC is online most of the
    time.)

    I imagine in theory they could, but I can't see why they'd want to.

    I confess I've largely gone over to reading on Kindle nowadays, mainly
    because I was running out of room to store any more physical books.
    There are also some amazing bargains to be had, especially for books
    that are out of copyright. It's also handy if I'm going away on holiday,
    as I no longer need to put several heavy books in my luggage.
    --
    John Hall
    "I look upon it, that he who does not mind his belly,
    will hardly mind anything else."
    Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-84)

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  • From John Hall@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sun Jul 27 19:26:34 2025
    In message <1065g82$1kcc7$[email protected]>, J. P. Gilliver
    <[email protected]> writes
    Ah, so even when converted to "EPUB", you still need a special
    "reader".If (some) publishers/authors insist their stuff isn't DRM'd,
    is there a reason these works are in EPUB, rather than, say, .pdf,
    .rtf, .txt, or .doc(x)?

    Kindle can store and read books in EPUB format and also documents in
    .pdf format, though that would presumably allow Amazon to access them.
    --
    John Hall
    "I look upon it, that he who does not mind his belly,
    will hardly mind anything else."
    Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-84)

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  • From sticks@21:1/5 to John Hall on Sun Jul 27 15:16:22 2025
    On 7/27/2025 1:22 PM, John Hall wrote:
    In message <10659gp$1kcc7$[email protected]>, J. P. Gilliver
    <[email protected]> writes
    [about Kindle]
    I'd be interested in comments - in particular,
    (a) is the access limited to just this PC?

    No. The master version of your Kindle library lives somewhere on
    Amazon's website. Assuming you have an account with Amazon, you can also access it from another PC (I assume, though I've never tried that),

    Yes, I have it on three.

    your Kindle device should you acquire one, or via the Kindle app on your Android smartphone and/or tablet (should you have one).

    iPhone's Kindle app is also great.

    Kindle offers a
    sync function, so that after clicking on it you can resume reading a
    book from the point where you left off on a different device. Obviously
    you need to be online for that so it can download the necessary info (including the book itself if you've not previously opened it on this device).

    Yes, you have to make sure it is set to sync this function.


    (b) can Amazon remotely delete it? (This PC is online most of the time.)

    I imagine in theory they could, but I can't see why they'd want to.

    Agreed. Never had anything deleted or lost by them. It's how Amazon
    started, selling books.

    I confess I've largely gone over to reading on Kindle nowadays, mainly because I was running out of room to store any more physical books.
    There are also some amazing bargains to be had, especially for books
    that are out of copyright. It's also handy if I'm going away on holiday,
    as I no longer need to put several heavy books in my luggage.

    I find using the handheld device, either my Kindle or on the iPhone app,
    much easier on my hand. For one thing you can turn the pages with the
    same hand you hold it with. It is much lighter, too.
    Lighting\brightness and font size are whatever you set it at. The only
    time I buy a hard copy is if it is something historical, or from a set I already have, or something I want to share after reading. Some people I
    know refuse to read anything but hard copy books. Even then, I usually
    buy both now and read it on the Kindle app and give them the book.

    That said, I have given up for the most part using the actual Kindle.
    If you make notes, highlight things, or ever want to return for
    reference, the iPhone app is much easier to use for this. But the main
    reason is many times there is a link, or something you want to look up
    while reading and though the kindle does have web access, it is
    painfully slow. The phone app does this back and forth super quick.
    Images are also much better using the phone, too. The image can be
    enlarged much faster and is much clearer than on the kindle. I also
    only have to carry one device now.


    --
    Science doesn't support Darwin. Scientists do.

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Mon Jul 28 04:22:17 2025
    On 2025/7/27 19:14:25, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-27 15:27, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    I don't understand why you want short file names or bother with them.

    There are los of reasons, but one is: if I'm in a command window, and I
    want to move one step at a time to something like

    <drive>:blahhhhh\blahhhh blah blah\blah blahh\blahhh

    , it's easier to type "cd blahbl~1" (or whatever).

    Another reason is if I want to reference an LFN with a space in it in a
    context where a space would cause problems or at least make things more difficult (batch files for example).

    I'm sure others can think of lots more reasons.

    I don't understand why you - apparently, anyway, from the above line -
    dislike them.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    I'm not an early bird or a night owl, I'm some sort of permanently
    exhausted pigeon

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to John Hall on Mon Jul 28 04:34:47 2025
    On 2025/7/27 19:22:50, John Hall wrote:
    In message <10659gp$1kcc7$[email protected]>, J. P. Gilliver
    <[email protected]> writes
    [about Kindle]
    I'd be interested in comments - in particular,
    (a) is the access limited to just this PC?

    No. The master version of your Kindle library lives somewhere on
    Amazon's website. Assuming you have an account with Amazon, you can also

    I sort of gathered that. But I did establish that I can read the book
    with my internet connection disconnected.
    []

    (b) can Amazon remotely delete it? (This PC is online most of the
    time.)

    I imagine in theory they could, but I can't see why they'd want to.

    Well, Carlos says he complained about one having lots of errors in it,
    and instead of fixing it, they refunded his money and deleted it.

    The reason _I_ am apprehensive is that, after following a link from the lostcousins newsletter, I have "bought" a Kindle book from Amazon for
    0.00, and since it was a rather expensive book (we're talking three
    figures here), I am concerned that they might "realise they have made a mistake" and want to kill copies downloaded.>
    I confess I've largely gone over to reading on Kindle nowadays, mainly because I was running out of room to store any more physical books.

    Oh, I can certainly see the attraction - there's the ability to search,
    too. I just find the huge kerfuffle involved - be it Kindle or calibre - extremely off-putting; people moan about the Adobe Acrobat Reader for
    .pdf files, but that's got _nothing_ on what's needed to use Kindle files!

    There are also some amazing bargains to be had, especially for books

    Yes.

    that are out of copyright. It's also handy if I'm going away on holiday,
    as I no longer need to put several heavy books in my luggage.
    (Though presumably you either have a Kindle or take a laptop.)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    I'm not an early bird or a night owl, I'm some sort of permanently
    exhausted pigeon

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to WolfFan on Mon Jul 28 04:47:08 2025
    On 2025/7/27 18:22:45, WolfFan wrote:
    []

    I like calibre. It’s free and can handle most formats, though it may choke on some Kindle DRM if you don’t have the correct 3rd-party extensions

    Yes. I got it, and pointed it at "My Kindle Content". It found the .azw
    and one other file (I only have one Kindle book), but loaded it as
    having the title of the folder Amazon/Kindle had created
    (B01N41TEO3_EBOK), and when I tried to view it, failed or came up as gobbledegook. I think it was when I tried to convert it it directed me
    to https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283371, which
    suggested I needed the "DeDRM (version 10.0.9 beta) and KFX Input
    plugins". I installed the DeDRM one - still no joy. I installed the KFX
    one - ah, now it can load the file. But when I try to _convert_ it,
    either to EPUB or PDF, I get "Cannot convert ... This book is locked by
    DRM". (I had naively thought a plugin called DeDRM would deal with that!)

    loaded. The main problem is the actual reader sub app has its quirks. That,


    []
    Well, _my_ main problem is that I seem to have loaded something even
    more complicated than the Kindle "app" (OK, I'm sure it can _do_ more),
    and all I have to show for it is an _extra_ folder tree, containing - in
    a suspicious way similar to the Kindle one - _another_ 100 MB or so for
    its own copy of the book.

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    I'm not an early bird or a night owl, I'm some sort of permanently
    exhausted pigeon

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  • From sticks@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Sun Jul 27 23:05:24 2025
    On 7/27/2025 10:34 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/27 19:22:50, John Hall wrote:
    In message <10659gp$1kcc7$[email protected]>, J. P. Gilliver
    <[email protected]> writes
    [about Kindle]
    I'd be interested in comments - in particular,
    (a) is the access limited to just this PC?

    No. The master version of your Kindle library lives somewhere on
    Amazon's website. Assuming you have an account with Amazon, you can also

    I sort of gathered that. But I did establish that I can read the book
    with my internet connection disconnected.

    Your "Library" will have two tabs. All and Downloaded. If you plan on
    being away from service, just make sure you download everything you need
    and you can check the downloaded tab to make sure it is done. I'm not
    sure of the process it uses either on the windows app or the phone app
    to remove the full downloads. I just checked my directory and it says I
    only have 7 downloaded at this time.

    ---snip---

    that are out of copyright. It's also handy if I'm going away on holiday,
    as I no longer need to put several heavy books in my luggage.
    (Though presumably you either have a Kindle or take a laptop.)

    I just take the phone as usual and read from there.
    BTW, it seems it uses little resources on the phone, but on both win10
    and win11 computers, the Kindle app is pretty demanding for some reason.


    --
    Science doesn't support Darwin. Scientists do.

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  • From Steve Hayes@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jul 28 06:25:49 2025
    On Sun, 27 Jul 2025 14:27:53 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    However, I recently read about a book that is useful for genealogy (if >anyone's interested, it's The Oxford Dictionary of Family Names in
    Britain and Ireland - see >https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/latejul25news.htm#Oxford for >details), so I took the plunge. (The above link told me I don't have to
    have a Kindle device, I can "download the Kindle app" for the computer.)

    I have a "Kindle app" of sorts on my Win XP computer.

    It's called "Mobipocket Reader" and means I can download Kindle-format
    .mobi files (.mobi used to be Kindle's native format) and read them on
    my computer, but most of the files I've read on it have not downloaded
    from Amazon.

    I've also heard that Kindle no uses mostly .epub files, and I've never
    managed to find a decent epub reader that works on my computer.


    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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  • From John Hall@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jul 28 10:04:55 2025
    In message <1066r4n$20k28$[email protected]>, J. P. Gilliver
    <[email protected]> writes
    On 2025/7/27 19:22:50, John Hall wrote:
    In message <10659gp$1kcc7$[email protected]>, J. P. Gilliver
    <snip>

    (b) can Amazon remotely delete it? (This PC is online most of the
    time.)

    I imagine in theory they could, but I can't see why they'd want to.

    Well, Carlos says he complained about one having lots of errors in it,
    and instead of fixing it, they refunded his money and deleted it.

    The reason _I_ am apprehensive is that, after following a link from the >lostcousins newsletter, I have "bought" a Kindle book from Amazon for
    0.00, and since it was a rather expensive book (we're talking three
    figures here),

    :)

    I am concerned that they might "realise they have made a
    mistake" and want to kill copies downloaded.>

    I doubt that it's a mistake. It's not that uncommon to see a Kindle
    story priced at �0.00. I think it's sometimes done with the first novel
    in a series, as a marketing ploy.

    I confess I've largely gone over to reading on Kindle nowadays, mainly
    because I was running out of room to store any more physical books.

    Oh, I can certainly see the attraction - there's the ability to search,
    too. I just find the huge kerfuffle involved - be it Kindle or calibre - >extremely off-putting; people moan about the Adobe Acrobat Reader for
    .pdf files, but that's got _nothing_ on what's needed to use Kindle files!

    I think you'll find that you soon get used to it.


    There are also some amazing bargains to be had, especially for books

    Yes.

    that are out of copyright. It's also handy if I'm going away on holiday,
    as I no longer need to put several heavy books in my luggage.
    (Though presumably you either have a Kindle or take a laptop.)

    I have a Kindle and I also take my smartphone with me. I prefer to read
    on the Kindle, though, as it has a larger screen. Taking a laptop, if I
    had one, would rather defeat the object of avoiding the weight of
    physical books. The only slight annoying is that the Kindle's USB
    charging lead has a different-shaped plug at the device end, meaning
    that I need to take two charging leads with me rather than one.
    --
    John Hall
    "I look upon it, that he who does not mind his belly,
    will hardly mind anything else."
    Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-84)

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to John Hall on Mon Jul 28 12:02:57 2025
    On 2025/7/28 10:4:55, John Hall wrote:
    In message <1066r4n$20k28$[email protected]>, J. P. Gilliver
    <[email protected]> writes
    On 2025/7/27 19:22:50, John Hall wrote:
    In message <10659gp$1kcc7$[email protected]>, J. P. Gilliver
    <snip>

    (b) can Amazon remotely delete it? (This PC is online most of the
    time.)

    I imagine in theory they could, but I can't see why they'd want to.

    Well, Carlos says he complained about one having lots of errors in it,
    and instead of fixing it, they refunded his money and deleted it.

    The reason _I_ am apprehensive is that, after following a link from the
    lostcousins newsletter, I have "bought" a Kindle book from Amazon for
    0.00, and since it was a rather expensive book (we're talking three
    figures here),

    :)

    I am concerned that they might "realise they have made a
    mistake" and want to kill copies downloaded.>

    I doubt that it's a mistake. It's not that uncommon to see a Kindle
    story priced at £0.00. I think it's sometimes done with the first novel
    in a series, as a marketing ploy.

    Hmm. I could see that for, as you say, first novel in a series or
    similar - perhaps even if it was once offered at full price, when the
    series gets big enough, they might make the first one 0.00. But I can't
    see The Oxford Dictionary of Family Names in Britain and Ireland,
    which was originally I think £400 for the print version (now
    unavailable) and £280 for the Kindle version, as being a "loss leader"
    or "taster"!>
    I confess I've largely gone over to reading on Kindle nowadays, mainly
    because I was running out of room to store any more physical books.

    Oh, I can certainly see the attraction - there's the ability to search,
    too. I just find the huge kerfuffle involved - be it Kindle or calibre -
    extremely off-putting; people moan about the Adobe Acrobat Reader for
    .pdf files, but that's got _nothing_ on what's needed to use Kindle files!

    I think you'll find that you soon get used to it.

    At the moment, I can't see my using it for more than this one, but you
    may be right.>>
    There are also some amazing bargains to be had, especially for books

    Yes.

    that are out of copyright. It's also handy if I'm going away on holiday, >>> as I no longer need to put several heavy books in my luggage.
    (Though presumably you either have a Kindle or take a laptop.)

    I have a Kindle and I also take my smartphone with me. I prefer to read

    Ah. I don't have a Kindle, and also am one of those people the world increasingly thinks is a weirdo: I don't have a smartphone. (I have a
    dumbphone for emergencies, and even finding a true PAYG for that was
    difficult: lots of offers _claim_ to be PAYG, but when looked into, the
    word "month" usually gets mentioned before too long.)

    on the Kindle, though, as it has a larger screen. Taking a laptop, if I
    had one, would rather defeat the object of avoiding the weight of
    physical books. The only slight annoying is that the Kindle's USB
    charging lead has a different-shaped plug at the device end, meaning
    that I need to take two charging leads with me rather than one.
    Well, you'd still only need to take one, not several. And I rarely go
    anywhere without my laptop anyway.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    "Everyone is entitled to an *informed* opinion." - Harlan Ellison

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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Mon Jul 28 14:34:26 2025
    On 2025-07-28 05:34, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/27 19:22:50, John Hall wrote:
    In message <10659gp$1kcc7$[email protected]>, J. P. Gilliver
    <[email protected]> writes
    [about Kindle]
    I'd be interested in comments - in particular,
    (a) is the access limited to just this PC?

    No. The master version of your Kindle library lives somewhere on
    Amazon's website. Assuming you have an account with Amazon, you can also

    I sort of gathered that. But I did establish that I can read the book
    with my internet connection disconnected.
    []

    (b) can Amazon remotely delete it? (This PC is online most of the
    time.)

    I imagine in theory they could, but I can't see why they'd want to.

    Well, Carlos says he complained about one having lots of errors in it,
    and instead of fixing it, they refunded his money and deleted it.

    The reason _I_ am apprehensive is that, after following a link from the lostcousins newsletter, I have "bought" a Kindle book from Amazon for
    0.00, and since it was a rather expensive book (we're talking three
    figures here), I am concerned that they might "realise they have made a mistake" and want to kill copies downloaded.>

    That's why you must learn to create a backup. For this DeDRM is
    necessary. Not to pirate the books (I never do that), but to make
    backups of your property.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Mon Jul 28 14:31:07 2025
    On 2025-07-28 05:22, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/27 19:14:25, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-27 15:27, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    I don't understand why you want short file names or bother with them.

    There are los of reasons, but one is: if I'm in a command window, and I
    want to move one step at a time to something like

    <drive>:blahhhhh\blahhhh blah blah\blah blahh\blahhh

    , it's easier to type "cd blahbl~1" (or whatever).

    Another reason is if I want to reference an LFN with a space in it in a context where a space would cause problems or at least make things more difficult (batch files for example).

    I'm sure others can think of lots more reasons.

    I don't understand why you - apparently, anyway, from the above line - dislike them.

    I had no need to use them in decades. Tools should be able to cope
    perfectly with long names. Maybe if using the old DOS console. I would
    switch to any of the modern shells in Windows. Like the Powershell or
    Windows Terminal

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to Steve Hayes on Mon Jul 28 14:37:59 2025
    On 2025-07-28 06:25, Steve Hayes wrote:
    I've also heard that Kindle no uses mostly .epub files, and I've never managed to find a decent epub reader that works on my computer.

    Did you try Calibre?

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

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  • From Frank Slootweg@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Mon Jul 28 14:28:42 2025
    Carlos E.R. <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On 2025-07-28 05:22, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/27 19:14:25, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-27 15:27, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    I don't understand why you want short file names or bother with them.

    There are los of reasons, but one is: if I'm in a command window, and I want to move one step at a time to something like

    <drive>:blahhhhh\blahhhh blah blah\blah blahh\blahhh

    , it's easier to type "cd blahbl~1" (or whatever).

    Another reason is if I want to reference an LFN with a space in it in a context where a space would cause problems or at least make things more difficult (batch files for example).

    I'm sure others can think of lots more reasons.

    I don't understand why you - apparently, anyway, from the above line - dislike them.

    I had no need to use them in decades. Tools should be able to cope
    perfectly with long names. Maybe if using the old DOS console. I would
    switch to any of the modern shells in Windows. Like the Powershell or
    Windows Terminal

    Same here. I haven't used short names ever since long names existed,
    i.e. for me from Windows NT on. I might have used them temporarily on
    Windows 95 to fix some problems. but as I mainly went from Windows 3.1
    to NT, those were rare occasions.

    As to "Maybe if using the old DOS console.": I spent a very large
    portion of my time in Command Prompt windows and never use short names
    there either.

    Probably my being used to Unix/UNIX, made me drop short names in
    Windows as soon as I could.

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  • From Java Jive@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Mon Jul 28 15:40:24 2025
    On 2025-07-28 04:22, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/27 19:14:25, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-27 15:27, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    I don't understand why you want short file names or bother with them.

    There are los of reasons, but one is: if I'm in a command window, and I
    want to move one step at a time to something like

    <drive>:blahhhhh\blahhhh blah blah\blah blahh\blahhh

    , it's easier to type "cd blahbl~1" (or whatever).

    Another reason is if I want to reference an LFN with a space in it in a context where a space would cause problems or at least make things more difficult (batch files for example).

    I'm sure others can think of lots more reasons.

    I don't understand why you - apparently, anyway, from the above line - dislike them.

    I would suggest other possibilities which I believe are simpler ...

    + Type 'cd ' into the console, drag and drop directory name from an Explorer window (in what seems pretty much like a bug, drag and drop
    doesn't work if console was run as Admninistrator ... maddening!).

    + If administrator console, type <alt-r>, type 'cd ' into the Run
    dialog, drag and drop directory name from an Explorer window into the
    Run dialog, copy it from the dialog and <rt-click> in the console to
    paste it, type <Enter>.

    + <Shift-rt-click> directory in Explorer and choose 'Open command
    windows here'.

    + If all else fails ...

    cd [First few non-blank characters of 1st-directory name]*
    cd [First few non-blank characters of 2nd-directory name]*
    [etc]

    Notes:

    + In all cases 'cd' can be replaced by 'pushd', to allow later use of
    'popd' to restore the original directory.

    + Where drag and drop works for directory names, it also works for file
    names.

    --

    Fake news kills!

    I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
    www.macfh.co.uk

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  • From Char Jackson@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 28 11:04:30 2025
    On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 04:22:17 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 2025/7/27 19:14:25, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-27 15:27, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    I don't understand why you want short file names or bother with them.

    There are los of reasons, but one is: if I'm in a command window, and I
    want to move one step at a time to something like

    <drive>:blahhhhh\blahhhh blah blah\blah blahh\blahhh

    , it's easier to type "cd blahbl~1" (or whatever).

    Easier than using 'tab auto complete'? I type one or more letters, then
    I use the tab key to display the first matching file. If that's the file
    I want, I'm done. If not, I press tab again, and so on. Filenames with
    spaces automatically get quotation marks. Each additional letter typed
    reduces the number of candidates offered up by the tab key.

    Like the others that have responded, I haven't used short file names
    since LFNs became available, about 30 years ago. I'm not sure why I
    would ever go back.

    <snip>

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Frank Slootweg on Mon Jul 28 16:58:45 2025
    On 2025/7/28 15:28:42, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    Carlos E.R. <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On 2025-07-28 05:22, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/27 19:14:25, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-27 15:27, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    I don't understand why you want short file names or bother with them.

    There are los of reasons, but one is: if I'm in a command window, and I
    want to move one step at a time to something like

    <drive>:blahhhhh\blahhhh blah blah\blah blahh\blahhh

    , it's easier to type "cd blahbl~1" (or whatever).

    Another reason is if I want to reference an LFN with a space in it in a
    context where a space would cause problems or at least make things more
    difficult (batch files for example).

    I'm sure others can think of lots more reasons.

    I don't understand why you - apparently, anyway, from the above line -
    dislike them.

    I had no need to use them in decades. Tools should be able to cope

    I'm sure there are lots of things (both within and outside computing)
    that _I_ haven't used for decades. That doesn't mean I automatically
    hate them, and might even appreciate them if I needed them.

    perfectly with long names. Maybe if using the old DOS console. I would
    switch to any of the modern shells in Windows. Like the Powershell or
    Windows Terminal

    Batch files are often simpler than messing about with shells.

    But anyway: I'm not telling _you_ to use SFNs! I was just a bit taken
    aback by your apparent _hostility_ to them.>
    Same here. I haven't used short names ever since long names existed,
    i.e. for me from Windows NT on. I might have used them temporarily on
    Windows 95 to fix some problems. but as I mainly went from Windows 3.1
    to NT, those were rare occasions.

    As to "Maybe if using the old DOS console.": I spent a very large
    portion of my time in Command Prompt windows and never use short names
    there either.

    Probably my being used to Unix/UNIX, made me drop short names in
    Windows as soon as I could.

    Ah yes, UNIX_where_all_spaces_are_underlines_instead (-:. (Yes, I
    haven't used UNIX since the '80s, when it _was_ nearly all command-line;
    I appreciate it probably _does_ allow spaces in filenames these days.)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    At the age of 7, Julia Elizabeth Wells could sing notes only dogs could
    hear.

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Java Jive on Mon Jul 28 17:09:18 2025
    On 2025/7/28 15:40:24, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2025-07-28 04:22, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/27 19:14:25, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-27 15:27, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    I don't understand why you want short file names or bother with them.

    []

    I don't understand why you - apparently, anyway, from the above line -
    dislike them.

    I would suggest other possibilities which I believe are simpler ...

    + Type 'cd ' into the console, drag and drop directory name from an Explorer window (in what seems pretty much like a bug, drag and drop

    Clever. I never remember you can do that

    doesn't work if console was run as Admninistrator ... maddening!).

    (except where you can't). cd followed by something with spaces in works,
    too.
    + <Shift-rt-click> directory in Explorer and choose 'Open command
    windows here'.

    In both 7 and 10, I had to fiddle to make that option visible. (I've
    done it, and I also have an option to open an Admin command prompt here.)>
    + If all else fails ...

    cd [First few non-blank characters of 1st-directory name]*
    cd [First few non-blank characters of 2nd-directory name]*
    [etc]

    True!>
    Notes:

    + In all cases 'cd' can be replaced by 'pushd', to allow later use of
    'popd' to restore the original directory.

    I didn't know about those! Thanks. (Now, how to remember they exist!)>
    + Where drag and drop works for directory names, it also works for file names.

    If anyone's wondering: the most recent way I wanted to do these, was to investigate the contents of subdirectories created by Kindle and
    calibre; in both cases, Steffen Gerlach's scanner didn't detect the size
    of the contents of the subdirectories, making me wonder if they were
    making File Explorer tell fibs. Since Xtree Gold - which usually shows
    me the truth in these circumstances - doesn't work in 64 bit systems, I
    was wondering if command prompt moving about would.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    At the age of 7, Julia Elizabeth Wells could sing notes only dogs could
    hear.

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Char Jackson on Mon Jul 28 17:13:43 2025
    On 2025/7/28 17:4:30, Char Jackson wrote:

    []

    Easier than using 'tab auto complete'? I type one or more letters, then
    I use the tab key to display the first matching file. If that's the file
    I want, I'm done. If not, I press tab again, and so on. Filenames with
    spaces automatically get quotation marks. Each additional letter typed reduces the number of candidates offered up by the tab key.

    Another useful method I either had forgotten about or didn't know, thank
    you!>
    Like the others that have responded, I haven't used short file names
    since LFNs became available, about 30 years ago. I'm not sure why I
    would ever go back.

    <snip>

    I _think_ there may still be cases involving batch files where problems
    might arise; there it's more the presence of spaces, rather than the
    length of a file (or directory) name as such, that can be a problem.

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    At the age of 7, Julia Elizabeth Wells could sing notes only dogs could
    hear.

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  • From John Hall@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Mon Jul 28 16:59:17 2025
    In message <1067ld2$21s2h$[email protected]>, J. P. Gilliver
    <[email protected]> writes
    On 2025/7/28 10:4:55, John Hall wrote:
    In message <1066r4n$20k28$[email protected]>, J. P. Gilliver
    <[email protected]> writes
    <snip>

    I am concerned that they might "realise they have made a
    mistake" and want to kill copies downloaded.>

    I doubt that it's a mistake. It's not that uncommon to see a Kindle
    story priced at �0.00. I think it's sometimes done with the first novel
    in a series, as a marketing ploy.

    Hmm. I could see that for, as you say, first novel in a series or
    similar - perhaps even if it was once offered at full price, when the
    series gets big enough, they might make the first one 0.00. But I can't
    see The Oxford Dictionary of Family Names in Britain and Ireland,
    which was originally I think �400 for the print version (now
    unavailable) and �280 for the Kindle version, as being a "loss leader"
    or "taster"!>

    Ah, in that case it does look like an error. Incidentally dictionaries
    and encyclopaedias are where I think that traditional books can still be superior, as I find it easier to navigate to the entry I want by
    flicking through the pages than by doing it online.


    I confess I've largely gone over to reading on Kindle nowadays, mainly >>>> because I was running out of room to store any more physical books.

    Oh, I can certainly see the attraction - there's the ability to search,
    too. I just find the huge kerfuffle involved - be it Kindle or calibre - >>> extremely off-putting; people moan about the Adobe Acrobat Reader for
    .pdf files, but that's got _nothing_ on what's needed to use Kindle files! >>
    I think you'll find that you soon get used to it.

    At the moment, I can't see my using it for more than this one, but you
    may be right.>>
    There are also some amazing bargains to be had, especially for books

    Yes.

    that are out of copyright. It's also handy if I'm going away on holiday, >>>> as I no longer need to put several heavy books in my luggage.
    (Though presumably you either have a Kindle or take a laptop.)

    I have a Kindle and I also take my smartphone with me. I prefer to read

    Ah. I don't have a Kindle, and also am one of those people the world >increasingly thinks is a weirdo: I don't have a smartphone. (I have a >dumbphone for emergencies, and even finding a true PAYG for that was >difficult: lots of offers _claim_ to be PAYG, but when looked into, the
    word "month" usually gets mentioned before too long.)

    I resisted getting a mobile phone till about three years ago, when the increasing imposition by sites of 2FA forced me into it. I decided that
    if I was going to get a mobile phone then it might as well be a
    so-called "smart" one.

    <snip>
    --
    John Hall
    "I look upon it, that he who does not mind his belly,
    will hardly mind anything else."
    Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-84)

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to John Hall on Mon Jul 28 17:30:42 2025
    On 2025/7/28 16:59:17, John Hall wrote:
    In message <1067ld2$21s2h$[email protected]>, J. P. Gilliver

    []

    Hmm. I could see that for, as you say, first novel in a series or
    similar - perhaps even if it was once offered at full price, when the
    series gets big enough, they might make the first one 0.00. But I can't
    see The Oxford Dictionary of Family Names in Britain and Ireland,
    which was originally I think £400 for the print version (now
    unavailable) and £280 for the Kindle version, as being a "loss leader"
    or "taster"!>

    Ah, in that case it does look like an error. Incidentally dictionaries
    and encyclopaedias are where I think that traditional books can still be superior, as I find it easier to navigate to the entry I want by
    flicking through the pages than by doing it online.

    Well, if I have four hundred pounds to spare next time I find a print
    copy ... (-:. [I think I might agree with you. Though _the_ dictionary
    is a bit clumsy in its twentysomething volume form, or even the
    miniaturised version.]
    Ah. I don't have a Kindle, and also am one of those people the world
    increasingly thinks is a weirdo: I don't have a smartphone. (I have a
    dumbphone for emergencies, and even finding a true PAYG for that was
    difficult: lots of offers _claim_ to be PAYG, but when looked into, the
    word "month" usually gets mentioned before too long.)

    I resisted getting a mobile phone till about three years ago, when the increasing imposition by sites of 2FA forced me into it. I decided that
    if I was going to get a mobile phone then it might as well be a
    so-called "smart" one.

    <snip>
    (My "[]" is short for "[something snipped here]".) I had a requirement
    to get a fobile _without_ a camera, which even among non-smart ones was
    hard to find! (It's a Nokia 105, IIRR.)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    At the age of 7, Julia Elizabeth Wells could sing notes only dogs could
    hear.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Mon Jul 28 17:21:31 2025
    On 2025/7/28 13:34:26, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    []

    That's why you must learn to create a backup. For this DeDRM is
    necessary. Not to pirate the books (I never do that), but to make
    backups of your property.


    That - and, the option of accessing without having to use either Kindle
    or calibre - is what I'm about. I haven't succeeded so far. (The latest
    wrinkle is that someone suggested using an earlier version of
    Kindle-for-PC; I obtained that, and re-downloaded the book. I actually
    like the user interface of that Kindle-for-PC better. But now, calibre -
    still with those two plugins installed - won't even _open_ the file.
    [Can you have two versions of Kindle-for-PC installed? I'd foolishly
    deleted - with prejudice, i. e. can't undelete - the book from calibre,
    before trying to load the "new" version of the book into calibre. So I
    need to download it _again_ with newer Kindle-for-PC, assuming I'm going
    to use calibre to de-DRM it.])
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    At the age of 7, Julia Elizabeth Wells could sing notes only dogs could
    hear.

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  • From Java Jive@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Mon Jul 28 20:50:49 2025
    On 2025-07-28 17:09, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    If anyone's wondering: the most recent way I wanted to do these, was to investigate the contents of subdirectories created by Kindle and
    calibre; in both cases, Steffen Gerlach's scanner didn't detect the size
    of the contents of the subdirectories, making me wonder if they were
    making File Explorer tell fibs. Since Xtree Gold - which usually shows
    me the truth in these circumstances - doesn't work in 64 bit systems, I
    was wondering if command prompt moving about would.

    Ensure that nothing is hidden (& optionally read only) ...

    attrib [-r] -h -s /d /s <path>/*.*

    ... then ...

    dir [/b] [/on] /<path>/*.*

    ... where the optional /b switch lists only files without the rest of
    the normal directory output, and the option /ox swith sorts the results
    into a given order, n = name.

    --

    Fake news kills!

    I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
    www.macfh.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bennett Price@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Mon Jul 28 12:48:54 2025
    On 7/27/2025 6:27 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    So far, I've resisted going Kindle, as I do not understand, am
    suspicious, of how it works - remote control of what I have, it seems.

    However, I recently read about a book that is useful for genealogy (if anyone's interested, it's The Oxford Dictionary of Family Names in
    Britain and Ireland - see https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/latejul25news.htm#Oxford for details), so I took the plunge. (The above link told me I don't have to
    have a Kindle device, I can "download the Kindle app" for the computer.)

    First, I tried to download it from the link provided, but was told I
    don't have any devices registered, or some such wording - but it did
    include a link to get the "app". So I did, and then was able to get the
    book.

    Among other things, I ended up with a directory
    D:\document.etc\My Kindle Content (which I had accepted during the
    process). [D:\document.etc is my "documents" folder.] Curiously, doing a
    "dir /x m*.*" from document.etc shows that MKC _doesn't_ have a short filename.

    Within MKC, there appear to be three items: a 112 KB file called book_asset.db, a directory called NoteDocuments which appears to be
    empty, and a subfolder called B01N41TEO3_EBOK. None of these seem to
    have short names.

    I say _appear_, because a size indicator I like to use - scanner, from Steffen Gerlach (http://www.steffengerlach.de/freeware/), when pointed
    at MKD, doesn't see the B* subdirectory.

    Anyway, within B01N41TEO3_EBOK are about 21 files - a .voucher file of
    size 1,165, 18 .res files and a .md file all of about 1-3 MB, and a .azw
    file of 45.4 MB, totalling 97.4 MB (all sizes according to scanner).

    Double-clicking on the .azw file causes "J.'s Kindle for PC" to open, displaying the book.

    Because of my - OK, paranoia - about Kindle, I verified that this (double-clicking on the file) worked with my internet connection disconnected: in other words, both the book and the software to access
    it are definitely on my PC.

    I'd be interested in comments - in particular,
    (a) is the access limited to just this PC?
    (b) can Amazon remotely delete it? (This PC is online most of the time.)

    Plus are the files and folders as they appear, or is what I see in File Explorer a fiction? (On my Windows 7 32 bit machine, I used to use Xtree
    Gold to see what was really going on, but that won't work under 10-64 [I think it's the 64 that stops it rather than the 10].) And I didn't know things could exist without a short (8.3) name, but "dir /?" - under /X - implies they can.

    In the United States many public libraries will lend Ebooks in Kindle
    book (and/or EPub) form, typically for 2 to 3 weeks at a time and will
    renew them if no one else is waiting for them. Check with your local
    public library to see whether this is an option for you. Additionally,
    other services will lend titles, variously with or without a link to a
    local public library:
    Project Gutenberg https://www.gutenberg.org/
    Hoopla https://www.hoopladigital.com/
    Overdrive https://www.overdrive.com/
    Libby https://libbyapp.com/interview/welcome#doYouHaveACard

    As for the Orwell 1984 recall, I believe Amazon refunded the purchase
    price to those who had the title deleted.

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Bennett Price on Tue Jul 29 01:10:47 2025
    On 2025/7/28 20:48:54, Bennett Price wrote:

    []

    In the United States many public libraries will lend Ebooks in Kindle
    book (and/or EPub) form, typically for 2 to 3 weeks at a time and will
    renew them if no one else is waiting for them. Check with your local

    I don't want to _borrow_ this book, I want it - and the software to
    access it - on my machine, even when not online. It seems I _do_ have
    that - I was able to open it with the internet (wifi) disabled - though
    I still have to use the clunky software (Kindle or calibre) to access it.

    public library to see whether this is an option for you. Additionally,
    other services will lend titles, variously with or without a link to a
    local public library:


    []

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Alcohol is way ahead of cocaine as the world's deadliest drug, hastening
    around three million people per year into their graves (cocaine and
    heroin and crystal meth account for around half a million annually).
    Revd Richard Coles, RT 2021/7/3-9

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Java Jive on Tue Jul 29 01:04:48 2025
    On 2025/7/28 20:50:49, Java Jive wrote:
    On 2025-07-28 17:09, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    If anyone's wondering: the most recent way I wanted to do these, was to
    investigate the contents of subdirectories created by Kindle and
    calibre; in both cases, Steffen Gerlach's scanner didn't detect the size
    of the contents of the subdirectories, making me wonder if they were
    making File Explorer tell fibs. Since Xtree Gold - which usually shows
    me the truth in these circumstances - doesn't work in 64 bit systems, I
    was wondering if command prompt moving about would.

    Ensure that nothing is hidden (& optionally read only) ...

    attrib [-r] -h -s /d /s <path>/*.*

    ... then ...

    dir [/b] [/on] /<path>/*.*

    ... where the optional /b switch lists only files without the rest of
    the normal directory output, and the option /ox swith sorts the results
    into a given order, n = name.


    plain "dir /s" works (from My Kindle Content) - i. e. it sees the files
    in the subdirectory B01N41TEO3_EBOK . But "scanner" doesn't even see
    the subdirectory. I've tried a

    attrib -r -h -s /d /s *.*

    (from MKC) to make sure (and a Take Ownership for good measure), but no joy.

    Yes, scanner (http://www.steffengerlach.de/freeware/) _is_ old, but I'm
    puzzled why it's not seeing the subdirectory - and it makes me
    suspicious that Kindle is doing something peculiar. [And calibre.]]

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Alcohol is way ahead of cocaine as the world's deadliest drug, hastening
    around three million people per year into their graves (cocaine and
    heroin and crystal meth account for around half a million annually).
    Revd Richard Coles, RT 2021/7/3-9

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Tue Jul 29 14:40:49 2025
    On 2025-07-28 17:58, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/28 15:28:42, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    Carlos E.R. <[email protected]d> wrote:
    On 2025-07-28 05:22, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/27 19:14:25, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-27 15:27, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    I don't understand why you want short file names or bother with them. >>>>>
    There are los of reasons, but one is: if I'm in a command window, and I >>>> want to move one step at a time to something like

    <drive>:blahhhhh\blahhhh blah blah\blah blahh\blahhh

    , it's easier to type "cd blahbl~1" (or whatever).

    Another reason is if I want to reference an LFN with a space in it in a >>>> context where a space would cause problems or at least make things more >>>> difficult (batch files for example).

    I'm sure others can think of lots more reasons.

    I don't understand why you - apparently, anyway, from the above line - >>>> dislike them.

    I had no need to use them in decades. Tools should be able to cope

    I'm sure there are lots of things (both within and outside computing)
    that _I_ haven't used for decades. That doesn't mean I automatically
    hate them, and might even appreciate them if I needed them.

    perfectly with long names. Maybe if using the old DOS console. I would
    switch to any of the modern shells in Windows. Like the Powershell or
    Windows Terminal

    Batch files are often simpler than messing about with shells.

    Certainly.


    But anyway: I'm not telling _you_ to use SFNs! I was just a bit taken
    aback by your apparent _hostility_ to them.>

    Hostility? No. We simply do not understand using them this side of the
    century. Everything is designed for long names nowdays; using short
    names can be asking for trouble.


    Same here. I haven't used short names ever since long names existed,
    i.e. for me from Windows NT on. I might have used them temporarily on
    Windows 95 to fix some problems. but as I mainly went from Windows 3.1
    to NT, those were rare occasions.

    As to "Maybe if using the old DOS console.": I spent a very large
    portion of my time in Command Prompt windows and never use short names
    there either.

    Probably my being used to Unix/UNIX, made me drop short names in
    Windows as soon as I could.

    Ah yes, UNIX_where_all_spaces_are_underlines_instead (-:. (Yes, I
    haven't used UNIX since the '80s, when it _was_ nearly all command-line;
    I appreciate it probably _does_ allow spaces in filenames these days.)

    It certainly does. And you can use Bash shell and scripts in Windows,
    too. In "Windows Terminal", which can be installed from "Microsoft
    Store" and comes preinstalled in W11, you have "WSL (Windows Subsystem
    for Linux)", so you get Bash and others inside Windows.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Tue Jul 29 14:48:52 2025
    On 2025-07-29 02:10, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/28 20:48:54, Bennett Price wrote:

    []

    In the United States many public libraries will lend Ebooks in Kindle
    book (and/or EPub) form, typically for 2 to 3 weeks at a time and will
    renew them if no one else is waiting for them. Check with your local

    I don't want to _borrow_ this book, I want it - and the software to
    access it - on my machine, even when not online. It seems I _do_ have
    that - I was able to open it with the internet (wifi) disabled - though
    I still have to use the clunky software (Kindle or calibre) to access it.

    If Calibre is able to access (and read) the purchased book, the DeDRM
    thing must be working. Otherwise you'd see gibberish. What you need now
    is how to export or backup the book. I don't know how it is done with
    the Kindle.


    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Tue Jul 29 14:45:10 2025
    On 2025-07-28 18:21, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/28 13:34:26, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    []

    That's why you must learn to create a backup. For this DeDRM is
    necessary. Not to pirate the books (I never do that), but to make
    backups of your property.


    That - and, the option of accessing without having to use either Kindle
    or calibre - is what I'm about. I haven't succeeded so far. (The latest wrinkle is that someone suggested using an earlier version of
    Kindle-for-PC; I obtained that, and re-downloaded the book. I actually
    like the user interface of that Kindle-for-PC better. But now, calibre - still with those two plugins installed - won't even _open_ the file.
    [Can you have two versions of Kindle-for-PC installed? I'd foolishly
    deleted - with prejudice, i. e. can't undelete - the book from calibre, before trying to load the "new" version of the book into calibre. So I
    need to download it _again_ with newer Kindle-for-PC, assuming I'm going
    to use calibre to de-DRM it.])

    Sorry, I am not familiar with the Kindle. I have a Kobo myself.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Frank Slootweg@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Tue Jul 29 13:43:33 2025
    J. P. Gilliver <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2025/7/28 15:40:24, Java Jive wrote:
    [...]
    + In all cases 'cd' can be replaced by 'pushd', to allow later use of 'popd' to restore the original directory.

    I didn't know about those! Thanks. (Now, how to remember they exist!)>

    About "Now, how to remember they exist!": I document these kind of tips/tricks in (plain text) documentation files and try to give these
    files some reasonably sensible names.

    Next is of course to 'remember' the names of these files. I manage
    most of the time by putting some sensible keyword in wildcards in a
    'dir' command. For example in this case 'dir *command*', which, amongst
    others, gives me my file Command_Prompt_DOS_commands, but also several
    other files with Windows commands which can be used in a Command Prompt
    window.

    If those kind of 'dir' commands don't turn up anything, I do a keyword
    search *in* my files. Because I have a Unix-like environment in Windows (Cygwin), I use the Unix 'grep' command to search, because that can use
    (quite sophisticated) regular expressions. In plain Windows, you could
    use the 'findstr' ("Searches for strings in files.") command or <barf!> Windows' Search in File Explorer.

    [...]

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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to Frank Slootweg on Tue Jul 29 19:13:53 2025
    On 2025-07-29 15:43, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    J. P. Gilliver <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2025/7/28 15:40:24, Java Jive wrote:
    [...]
    + In all cases 'cd' can be replaced by 'pushd', to allow later use of
    'popd' to restore the original directory.

    I didn't know about those! Thanks. (Now, how to remember they exist!)>

    About "Now, how to remember they exist!": I document these kind of tips/tricks in (plain text) documentation files and try to give these
    files some reasonably sensible names.

    Next is of course to 'remember' the names of these files. I manage
    most of the time by putting some sensible keyword in wildcards in a
    'dir' command. For example in this case 'dir *command*', which, amongst others, gives me my file Command_Prompt_DOS_commands, but also several
    other files with Windows commands which can be used in a Command Prompt window.

    I have a big "howto" text file. And another "programs_that_do_things"
    (but in Spanish).

    Then I also use "gnote", which is a derivative from "Tomboy", for taking
    notes. It has a search feature, and accepts some formatting and hot
    links across notes.


    If those kind of 'dir' commands don't turn up anything, I do a keyword search *in* my files. Because I have a Unix-like environment in Windows (Cygwin), I use the Unix 'grep' command to search, because that can use (quite sophisticated) regular expressions. In plain Windows, you could
    use the 'findstr' ("Searches for strings in files.") command or <barf!> Windows' Search in File Explorer.

    I would use "mc" (midnight commander), which is similar to the Norton Commander, an orthodox file manager. It can search for text in a bunch
    of files and open those that hit for read or edit. in Windows I might
    use Double Commander.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Frank Slootweg on Tue Jul 29 23:08:59 2025
    On 2025/7/29 14:43:33, Frank Slootweg wrote:

    []

    If those kind of 'dir' commands don't turn up anything, I do a keyword search *in* my files. Because I have a Unix-like environment in Windows (Cygwin), I use the Unix 'grep' command to search, because that can use (quite sophisticated) regular expressions. In plain Windows, you could
    use the 'findstr' ("Searches for strings in files.") command or <barf!> Windows' Search in File Explorer.

    [...]

    Hmm. I used to use Agent Ransack for the rare occasions where I wanted
    to do a content search; I haven't got round to installing that on this
    machine. I've just looked at findstr /? (needed | more), and it sure
    looks powerful - I fear I'd never learn all those switches now, unlike
    when I started with DOS and the like.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Of course some of it [television] is bad. But some of everything is bad
    - books, music, family ... - Melvyn Bragg, RT 2017/7/1-7

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Tue Jul 29 23:12:32 2025
    On 2025/7/29 13:45:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-28 18:21, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/28 13:34:26, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    []

    That's why you must learn to create a backup. For this DeDRM is
    necessary. Not to pirate the books (I never do that), but to make
    backups of your property.


    That - and, the option of accessing without having to use either Kindle
    or calibre - is what I'm about. I haven't succeeded so far. (The latest
    wrinkle is that someone suggested using an earlier version of
    Kindle-for-PC; I obtained that, and re-downloaded the book. I actually
    like the user interface of that Kindle-for-PC better. But now, calibre -
    still with those two plugins installed - won't even _open_ the file.
    [Can you have two versions of Kindle-for-PC installed? I'd foolishly
    deleted - with prejudice, i. e. can't undelete - the book from calibre,
    before trying to load the "new" version of the book into calibre. So I
    need to download it _again_ with newer Kindle-for-PC, assuming I'm going
    to use calibre to de-DRM it.])

    Sorry, I am not familiar with the Kindle. I have a Kobo myself.

    I don't have any Kindle _device_; I have been using the Kindle-for-PC
    "app", as they call it, to read the Kindle book on the PC. (And
    regretting, really, the whole exercise.)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Of course some of it [television] is bad. But some of everything is bad
    - books, music, family ... - Melvyn Bragg, RT 2017/7/1-7

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Tue Jul 29 23:23:21 2025
    On 2025/7/29 13:48:52, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-29 02:10, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/28 20:48:54, Bennett Price wrote:

    []

    In the United States many public libraries will lend Ebooks in Kindle
    book (and/or EPub) form, typically for 2 to 3 weeks at a time and will
    renew them if no one else is waiting for them. Check with your local

    I don't want to _borrow_ this book, I want it - and the software to
    access it - on my machine, even when not online. It seems I _do_ have
    that - I was able to open it with the internet (wifi) disabled - though
    I still have to use the clunky software (Kindle or calibre) to access it.

    If Calibre is able to access (and read) the purchased book, the DeDRM
    thing must be working. Otherwise you'd see gibberish. What you need now
    is how to export or backup the book. I don't know how it is done with
    the Kindle.


    Calibre was indeed able to access the book (downloaded when I had the
    current version of Kindle-for-PC; it seems unable to even access the
    version downloaded with an _old_ version of Kindle-for-PC). But just
    because calibre could _access_ it, didn't mean it could _convert_ (is
    that what you mean by "export or backup"?) it; when I tried - either to
    EPUB or PDF - it said something about DRM. So there seem to be (at
    least) two levels of de-DRM-ing required - firstly to let Calibre open
    it, and secondly to let calibre convert it. I'm not even sure the De-DRM
    plugin _did_ let calibre _access_ it: I loaded the two plugins in the
    order De-DRM first, then KFX; when I just had De-DRM installed, calibre couldn't open the book.

    (Is it possible to have two versions of Kindle-for-PC installed, or does installing either [old or current] disable the other? It doesn't seem to "install" like ordinary software - no new entry appeared in my Start
    menu tree, the only way to open it seems to be to double-click on the downloaded file. [Actually when it _was_ open after doing that, I did a
    "pin to taskbar".])
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Of course some of it [television] is bad. But some of everything is bad
    - books, music, family ... - Melvyn Bragg, RT 2017/7/1-7

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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Wed Jul 30 02:47:58 2025
    On 2025-07-30 00:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/29 13:45:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-28 18:21, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/28 13:34:26, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    []

    That's why you must learn to create a backup. For this DeDRM is
    necessary. Not to pirate the books (I never do that), but to make
    backups of your property.


    That - and, the option of accessing without having to use either Kindle
    or calibre - is what I'm about. I haven't succeeded so far. (The latest
    wrinkle is that someone suggested using an earlier version of
    Kindle-for-PC; I obtained that, and re-downloaded the book. I actually
    like the user interface of that Kindle-for-PC better. But now, calibre - >>> still with those two plugins installed - won't even _open_ the file.
    [Can you have two versions of Kindle-for-PC installed? I'd foolishly
    deleted - with prejudice, i. e. can't undelete - the book from calibre,
    before trying to load the "new" version of the book into calibre. So I
    need to download it _again_ with newer Kindle-for-PC, assuming I'm going >>> to use calibre to de-DRM it.])

    Sorry, I am not familiar with the Kindle. I have a Kobo myself.

    I don't have any Kindle _device_; I have been using the Kindle-for-PC
    "app", as they call it, to read the Kindle book on the PC. (And
    regretting, really, the whole exercise.)

    Well, I mean the kindle universe :-)
    I know you don't have the device itself.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Wed Jul 30 02:58:51 2025
    On 2025-07-30 00:23, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/29 13:48:52, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-29 02:10, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/28 20:48:54, Bennett Price wrote:

    []

    In the United States many public libraries will lend Ebooks in Kindle
    book (and/or EPub) form, typically for 2 to 3 weeks at a time and will >>>> renew them if no one else is waiting for them. Check with your local

    I don't want to _borrow_ this book, I want it - and the software to
    access it - on my machine, even when not online. It seems I _do_ have
    that - I was able to open it with the internet (wifi) disabled - though
    I still have to use the clunky software (Kindle or calibre) to access it. >>
    If Calibre is able to access (and read) the purchased book, the DeDRM
    thing must be working. Otherwise you'd see gibberish. What you need now
    is how to export or backup the book. I don't know how it is done with
    the Kindle.


    Calibre was indeed able to access the book (downloaded when I had the
    current version of Kindle-for-PC; it seems unable to even access the
    version downloaded with an _old_ version of Kindle-for-PC). But just
    because calibre could _access_ it, didn't mean it could _convert_ (is
    that what you mean by "export or backup"?) it; when I tried - either to
    EPUB or PDF - it said something about DRM. So there seem to be (at
    least) two levels of de-DRM-ing required - firstly to let Calibre open
    it, and secondly to let calibre convert it. I'm not even sure the De-DRM plugin _did_ let calibre _access_ it: I loaded the two plugins in the
    order De-DRM first, then KFX; when I just had De-DRM installed, calibre couldn't open the book.

    If you can read the book in Calibre, it has already been decoded.

    I would guess that the decoded file is in the Calibre library directory.

    At least, it is so with epubs.


    (Is it possible to have two versions of Kindle-for-PC installed, or does installing either [old or current] disable the other? It doesn't seem to "install" like ordinary software - no new entry appeared in my Start
    menu tree, the only way to open it seems to be to double-click on the downloaded file. [Actually when it _was_ open after doing that, I did a
    "pin to taskbar".])


    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

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  • From Steve Hayes@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Wed Jul 30 04:28:36 2025
    On Tue, 29 Jul 2025 14:40:49 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <[email protected]d> wrote:

    On 2025-07-28 17:58, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/28 15:28:42, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    But anyway: I'm not telling _you_ to use SFNs! I was just a bit taken
    aback by your apparent _hostility_ to them.>

    Hostility? No. We simply do not understand using them this side of the >century. Everything is designed for long names nowdays; using short
    names can be asking for trouble.

    I use several MS-DOS programs that do not understand long file names,
    and frequently copy the data files back and and forth between my
    desktop and laptop computers using batch files, so using long
    filenames in those circumstances is just asking for trouble.


    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to Frank Slootweg on Tue Jul 29 14:30:59 2025
    On 2025-07-28 16:28, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    Probably my being used to Unix/UNIX, made me drop short names in
    Windows as soon as I could.

    Yes, same here.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Steve Hayes on Wed Jul 30 22:03:10 2025
    On 2025/7/30 3:28:36, Steve Hayes wrote:
    On Tue, 29 Jul 2025 14:40:49 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <[email protected]d> wrote:

    On 2025-07-28 17:58, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/28 15:28:42, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    But anyway: I'm not telling _you_ to use SFNs! I was just a bit taken
    aback by your apparent _hostility_ to them.>

    Hostility? No. We simply do not understand using them this side of the
    century. Everything is designed for long names nowdays; using short
    names can be asking for trouble.

    I use several MS-DOS programs that do not understand long file names,
    and frequently copy the data files back and and forth between my
    desktop and laptop computers using batch files, so using long
    filenames in those circumstances is just asking for trouble.


    You remind me of another situation: there are _devices_ you might use,
    that don't understand LFNs - MP3 players, SatNavs, electronic picture
    frames ... and also, in those case, it behooves to use long ones whose
    short equivalents make sense. (Otherwise "a picture of my dog" and "a
    picture of my son" might appear in the picture frame as APICTU~1 and
    APICTU~2 rather than DOG and SON.)

    Not everything has a savvy OS.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Heaven forbid today's audience should feel bombarded with information or
    worse, lectured. Dont'scare the horses by waving facts around.
    - David Butcher, RT 2014/11/29-12/5

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to croy on Wed Jul 30 22:07:17 2025
    On 2025/7/30 16:50:32, croy wrote:
    On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 17:21:31 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]> wrote:

    someone suggested using an earlier version of Kindle-for-PC

    I think you will find that the older version will eventually auto-update. That might be stoppable, but I don't know how to do that.

    I think when I ran it - either altogether, or when I tried to download
    with it, I can't remember - it told me there was a newwer version
    available, did I want to upgrade. But it did let me decline. (The "old"
    version I have was installed with Kindle_for_PC_v2.4.70904.exe [which
    took a bit of finding], FWIW.)

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    "Dook, that was great but I think the line needs
    awe. Can you do it again, giving it just a little awe?"

    "Sure, George," said Wayne and looking up at the cross said:
    "Aw, truly this man is the son of God."
    (recounted in Radio Times, 30 March-5 April 2013.)

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Wed Jul 30 22:23:21 2025
    On 2025/7/30 1:58:51, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-30 00:23, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    []

    Calibre was indeed able to access the book (downloaded when I had the
    current version of Kindle-for-PC; it seems unable to even access the
    version downloaded with an _old_ version of Kindle-for-PC). But just
    because calibre could _access_ it, didn't mean it could _convert_ (is
    that what you mean by "export or backup"?) it; when I tried - either to
    EPUB or PDF - it said something about DRM. So there seem to be (at
    least) two levels of de-DRM-ing required - firstly to let Calibre open
    it, and secondly to let calibre convert it. I'm not even sure the De-DRM
    plugin _did_ let calibre _access_ it: I loaded the two plugins in the
    order De-DRM first, then KFX; when I just had De-DRM installed, calibre
    couldn't open the book.

    If you can read the book in Calibre, it has already been decoded.

    _Decoded_, maybe; de-DRMd, I think not.>
    I would guess that the decoded file is in the Calibre library directory.

    At least, it is so with epubs.

    Yes, the calibre library (at least, as things appeared in File Manager)
    seemed to be nearly 100M bigger, when I was in the position of calibre
    being able to "see" the book. (The Kindle library has a 45.4 MB .azw
    file and lots of other files mostly 1-3 MB, totalling 97.4 MB.) but
    though it could see (open) it, calibre couldn't _convert_ it, either to
    EPUB or PDF.>>
    (Is it possible to have two versions of Kindle-for-PC installed, or does
    installing either [old or current] disable the other? It doesn't seem to
    "install" like ordinary software - no new entry appeared in my Start
    menu tree, the only way to open it seems to be to double-click on the
    downloaded file. [Actually when it _was_ open after doing that, I did a
    "pin to taskbar".])


    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    "Dook, that was great but I think the line needs
    awe. Can you do it again, giving it just a little awe?"

    "Sure, George," said Wayne and looking up at the cross said:
    "Aw, truly this man is the son of God."
    (recounted in Radio Times, 30 March-5 April 2013.)

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  • From Frank Slootweg@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Thu Jul 31 09:54:39 2025
    J. P. Gilliver <[email protected]> wrote:
    On 2025/7/29 14:43:33, Frank Slootweg wrote:

    []

    If those kind of 'dir' commands don't turn up anything, I do a keyword search *in* my files. Because I have a Unix-like environment in Windows (Cygwin), I use the Unix 'grep' command to search, because that can use (quite sophisticated) regular expressions. In plain Windows, you could
    use the 'findstr' ("Searches for strings in files.") command or <barf!> Windows' Search in File Explorer.

    [...]

    Hmm. I used to use Agent Ransack for the rare occasions where I wanted
    to do a content search; I haven't got round to installing that on this machine. I've just looked at findstr /? (needed | more), and it sure
    looks powerful - I fear I'd never learn all those switches now, unlike
    when I started with DOS and the like.

    Well, for most simple cases, you don't need any (findstr) switches or
    regular expressions.

    For example, this works perfectly fine:

    findstr Gilliver News\posted

    [Returns 348 lines! :-)]

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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Thu Jul 31 15:30:17 2025
    On 2025-07-30 23:23, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/30 1:58:51, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-30 00:23, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    []

    Calibre was indeed able to access the book (downloaded when I had the
    current version of Kindle-for-PC; it seems unable to even access the
    version downloaded with an _old_ version of Kindle-for-PC). But just
    because calibre could _access_ it, didn't mean it could _convert_ (is
    that what you mean by "export or backup"?) it; when I tried - either to
    EPUB or PDF - it said something about DRM. So there seem to be (at
    least) two levels of de-DRM-ing required - firstly to let Calibre open
    it, and secondly to let calibre convert it. I'm not even sure the De-DRM >>> plugin _did_ let calibre _access_ it: I loaded the two plugins in the
    order De-DRM first, then KFX; when I just had De-DRM installed, calibre
    couldn't open the book.

    If you can read the book in Calibre, it has already been decoded.

    _Decoded_, maybe; de-DRMd, I think not.>

    By decoded, I mean dedrmed. It is impossible for calibre to read a DRM protected ebook.


    I would guess that the decoded file is in the Calibre library directory.

    At least, it is so with epubs.

    Yes, the calibre library (at least, as things appeared in File Manager) seemed to be nearly 100M bigger, when I was in the position of calibre
    being able to "see" the book. (The Kindle library has a 45.4 MB .azw
    file and lots of other files mostly 1-3 MB, totalling 97.4 MB.) but
    though it could see (open) it, calibre couldn't _convert_ it, either to
    EPUB or PDF.>>
    (Is it possible to have two versions of Kindle-for-PC installed, or does >>> installing either [old or current] disable the other? It doesn't seem to >>> "install" like ordinary software - no new entry appeared in my Start
    menu tree, the only way to open it seems to be to double-click on the
    downloaded file. [Actually when it _was_ open after doing that, I did a
    "pin to taskbar".])




    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Thu Jul 31 16:11:16 2025
    On 2025/7/31 14:30:17, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-30 23:23, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/30 1:58:51, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    []

    If you can read the book in Calibre, it has already been decoded.

    _Decoded_, maybe; de-DRMd, I think not.>

    By decoded, I mean dedrmed. It is impossible for calibre to read a DRM protected ebook.

    Well when I did have a version of the book that I could open in calibre, calibre failed when I tried to create either an EPUB or a .pdf version
    of it: I could look at the book, in cabibre, but when I tried to
    _convert_ it, in calibre, I got a message (same for both types of
    conversion attempt) that it couldn't; I don't remember the exact
    message, but I think it involved "protected" and "DRM".

    []

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    As the man said when confronted by a large dinner salad, "This isn't
    food. This is what food eats."

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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Thu Jul 31 22:39:24 2025
    On 2025-07-31 17:11, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/31 14:30:17, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-30 23:23, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/30 1:58:51, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    []

    If you can read the book in Calibre, it has already been decoded.

    _Decoded_, maybe; de-DRMd, I think not.>

    By decoded, I mean dedrmed. It is impossible for calibre to read a DRM
    protected ebook.

    Well when I did have a version of the book that I could open in calibre, calibre failed when I tried to create either an EPUB or a .pdf version
    of it: I could look at the book, in cabibre, but when I tried to
    _convert_ it, in calibre, I got a message (same for both types of
    conversion attempt) that it couldn't; I don't remember the exact
    message, but I think it involved "protected" and "DRM".

    []


    Yes, I don't understand that. I'm not familiar with the Kindle
    ecosystem, so I'm sorry that I can not help. But I do know that Calibre
    alone would display giberish when reading a book with DRM. It needs a
    DeDRM plugin in order to show you the readable text.

    Maybe the plugin only allows reading, not exporting?

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From croy@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 30 08:50:32 2025
    On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 17:21:31 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    someone suggested using an earlier version of Kindle-for-PC

    I think you will find that the older version will eventually auto-update.
    That might be stoppable, but I don't know how to do that.

    --
    croy

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Fri Aug 1 21:03:09 2025
    On 2025/7/31 21:39:24, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-31 17:11, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    []

    Well when I did have a version of the book that I could open in calibre,
    calibre failed when I tried to create either an EPUB or a .pdf version
    of it: I could look at the book, in cabibre, but when I tried to
    _convert_ it, in calibre, I got a message (same for both types of
    conversion attempt) that it couldn't; I don't remember the exact
    message, but I think it involved "protected" and "DRM".

    []


    Yes, I don't understand that. I'm not familiar with the Kindle

    Ah, I thought you were! Sorry about that.

    ecosystem, so I'm sorry that I can not help. But I do know that Calibre
    alone would display giberish when reading a book with DRM. It needs a
    DeDRM plugin in order to show you the readable text.

    In this case, I think it also needed the other plugin (a three-letter
    name - something like KRX?) before it would display other than gibberish.>
    Maybe the plugin only allows reading, not exporting?

    It sure looks that way!
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Cumulatively, however, they do get my goat, on my wick and up my nose,
    to the extent I am angry enough to stick a wick up a goat's nose and to
    hell with the consequences. - Eddie Mair, RT 2016/2/27-3/4

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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Sat Aug 2 03:42:22 2025
    On 2025-08-01 22:03, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/7/31 21:39:24, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-07-31 17:11, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    []

    Well when I did have a version of the book that I could open in calibre, >>> calibre failed when I tried to create either an EPUB or a .pdf version
    of it: I could look at the book, in cabibre, but when I tried to
    _convert_ it, in calibre, I got a message (same for both types of
    conversion attempt) that it couldn't; I don't remember the exact
    message, but I think it involved "protected" and "DRM".

    []


    Yes, I don't understand that. I'm not familiar with the Kindle

    Ah, I thought you were! Sorry about that.

    No, I use the epub ecosystem (with Kobo). So I go by similarities, I
    can't know the details.


    ecosystem, so I'm sorry that I can not help. But I do know that Calibre
    alone would display giberish when reading a book with DRM. It needs a
    DeDRM plugin in order to show you the readable text.

    In this case, I think it also needed the other plugin (a three-letter
    name - something like KRX?) before it would display other than gibberish.>
    Maybe the plugin only allows reading, not exporting?

    It sure looks that way!


    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Sat Aug 2 08:30:03 2025
    On 2025/8/2 2:42:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-08-01 22:03, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    []

    Ah, I thought you were! Sorry about that.

    No, I use the epub ecosystem (with Kobo). So I go by similarities, I
    can't know the details.


    ecosystem, so I'm sorry that I can not help. But I do know that Calibre
    alone would display giberish when reading a book with DRM. It needs a
    DeDRM plugin in order to show you the readable text.

    In this case, I think it also needed the other plugin (a three-letter
    name - something like KRX?) before it would display other than gibberish.> >>> Maybe the plugin only allows reading, not exporting?

    It sure looks that way!

    So - anyone familiar enough with the Kindle system to tell me how I
    _can_ convert this book - <https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/latejul25news.htm#Oxford> - to
    PDF or EPUB? Unfortunately, in as much as I understand these things,
    it's only available in Kindle (if that's the correct way to describe the situation). If calibre is the answer, I already have the DeDRM and KFX
    plugins. Or, can anyone tell me for definite that it _can't_ be done?>
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    I used to dream of the day when linux was as stable as windows. Never
    did I imagine that parity would be achieved by windows declining into
    the chaos that engulfs and stifles linux.
    - mike <[email protected]> in alt.windows7.general, 2018-4-1

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  • From John Hall@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Aug 2 10:31:55 2025
    In message <106kepr$un51$[email protected]>, J. P. Gilliver
    <[email protected]> writes

    So - anyone familiar enough with the Kindle system to tell me how I
    _can_ convert this book - ><https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/latejul25news.htm#Oxford> -
    to PDF or EPUB? Unfortunately, in as much as I understand these things,
    it's only available in Kindle (if that's the correct way to describe
    the situation). If calibre is the answer, I already have the DeDRM and
    KFX plugins. Or, can anyone tell me for definite that it _can't_ be done?>

    The Amazon website provides a way of importing EPUB and PDF files from
    your PC into Kindle, but I've never investigated whether it's possible
    to do it the other way round. However a quick search on the web turned
    up this:

    https://www.epubor.com/convert-kindle-ebooks-to-epub.html

    However it requires downloading a conversion utility and it doesn't make
    clear whether it will run on 32-bit Windows or only on 64-bit.
    --
    John Hall
    "I look upon it, that he who does not mind his belly,
    will hardly mind anything else."
    Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-84)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Sat Aug 2 14:33:26 2025
    On 2025-08-02 09:30, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/8/2 2:42:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-08-01 22:03, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    []

    Ah, I thought you were! Sorry about that.

    No, I use the epub ecosystem (with Kobo). So I go by similarities, I
    can't know the details.


    ecosystem, so I'm sorry that I can not help. But I do know that Calibre >>>> alone would display giberish when reading a book with DRM. It needs a
    DeDRM plugin in order to show you the readable text.

    In this case, I think it also needed the other plugin (a three-letter
    name - something like KRX?) before it would display other than gibberish.> >>>> Maybe the plugin only allows reading, not exporting?

    It sure looks that way!

    So - anyone familiar enough with the Kindle system to tell me how I
    _can_ convert this book - <https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/latejul25news.htm#Oxford> - to
    PDF or EPUB? Unfortunately, in as much as I understand these things,
    it's only available in Kindle (if that's the correct way to describe the situation). If calibre is the answer, I already have the DeDRM and KFX plugins. Or, can anyone tell me for definite that it _can't_ be done?>


    <https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-oxford-dictionary-of-family-names-in-britain-and-ireland-9780199677764?cc=es&lang=en&>

    9780199677764

    This title is available as an e-book. To purchase, visit your preferred
    e-book provider.

    Let's try.

    <https://www.kobo.com/es/en/ebook/the-oxford-dictionary-of-family-names-of-ireland?sId=d5ce0a05-41ae-4643-bfdc-b49e58bfc824>

    Seems they have the epub, for 135.40€, 2021 edition.


    Ohhh, sorry, it is not the same book. The Kobo search is quite
    imprecise. Thus the Oxford people are wrong, when they say "visit your preferred ebook provider".


    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Sat Aug 2 16:55:56 2025
    On 2025/8/2 13:33:26, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    []

    So - anyone familiar enough with the Kindle system to tell me how I
    _can_ convert this book -
    <https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/latejul25news.htm#Oxford> - to
    PDF or EPUB? Unfortunately, in as much as I understand these things,
    it's only available in Kindle (if that's the correct way to describe the
    situation). If calibre is the answer, I already have the DeDRM and KFX
    plugins. Or, can anyone tell me for definite that it _can't_ be done?>


    <https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-oxford-dictionary-of-family-names-in-britain-and-ireland-9780199677764?cc=es&lang=en&>

    9780199677764

    This title is available as an e-book. To purchase, visit your preferred e-book provider.

    Let's try.

    <https://www.kobo.com/es/en/ebook/the-oxford-dictionary-of-family-names-of-ireland?sId=d5ce0a05-41ae-4643-bfdc-b49e58bfc824>

    Seems they have the epub, for 135.40€, 2021 edition.

    Hmm. Somewhat more than 0.00 as in the link from lostcousins!>
    Ohhh, sorry, it is not the same book. The Kobo search is quite

    And, there is that!

    imprecise. Thus the Oxford people are wrong, when they say "visit your preferred ebook provider".


    thanks for trying, anyway!
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Easy reading is damned hard writing. -Nathaniel Hawthorne, writer
    (1804-1864)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Steve Hayes@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 2 18:06:49 2025
    On Sat, 2 Aug 2025 08:30:03 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    On 2025/8/2 2:42:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-08-01 22:03, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    []

    Ah, I thought you were! Sorry about that.

    No, I use the epub ecosystem (with Kobo). So I go by similarities, I
    can't know the details.


    ecosystem, so I'm sorry that I can not help. But I do know that Calibre >>>> alone would display giberish when reading a book with DRM. It needs a
    DeDRM plugin in order to show you the readable text.

    In this case, I think it also needed the other plugin (a three-letter
    name - something like KRX?) before it would display other than gibberish.> >>>> Maybe the plugin only allows reading, not exporting?

    It sure looks that way!

    So - anyone familiar enough with the Kindle system to tell me how I
    _can_ convert this book - ><https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/latejul25news.htm#Oxford> - to
    PDF or EPUB? Unfortunately, in as much as I understand these things,
    it's only available in Kindle (if that's the correct way to describe the >situation). If calibre is the answer, I already have the DeDRM and KFX >plugins. Or, can anyone tell me for definite that it _can't_ be done?>

    As I said before, I can read Kindle books on my Widows computer using
    the MobiPocket Reader, though when I tried to go to their web site its
    was 403 Forbidden.

    But you might be able to pick it up from a shareware distribution
    site.





    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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  • From Steve Hayes@21:1/5 to [email protected] on Sat Aug 2 18:21:00 2025
    On Tue, 29 Jul 2025 01:10:47 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    I don't want to _borrow_ this book, I want it - and the software to
    access it - on my machine, even when not online. It seems I _do_ have
    that - I was able to open it with the internet (wifi) disabled - though
    I still have to use the clunky software (Kindle or calibre) to access it.

    Try this:

    <https://mobipocket-reader.en.lo4d.com/windows>



    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to John Hall on Sat Aug 2 19:32:52 2025
    On 2025/8/2 10:31:55, John Hall wrote:
    In message <106kepr$un51$[email protected]>, J. P. Gilliver
    <[email protected]> writes

    So - anyone familiar enough with the Kindle system to tell me how I
    _can_ convert this book -
    <https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/latejul25news.htm#Oxford> -
    to PDF or EPUB? Unfortunately, in as much as I understand these things,
    it's only available in Kindle (if that's the correct way to describe
    the situation). If calibre is the answer, I already have the DeDRM and
    KFX plugins. Or, can anyone tell me for definite that it _can't_ be done?>

    The Amazon website provides a way of importing EPUB and PDF files from
    your PC into Kindle, but I've never investigated whether it's possible
    to do it the other way round. However a quick search on the web turned
    up this:

    https://www.epubor.com/convert-kindle-ebooks-to-epub.html

    However it requires downloading a conversion utility and it doesn't make clear whether it will run on 32-bit Windows or only on 64-bit.

    Thanks. I had in fact come across it before - I think that's where I encountered the mention of using an older version of Kindle-for-PC - but
    hadn't done anything about it. I'm not bothered about downloading
    something (and it put itself in Program Files, so I presume is 64 bit,
    but may have a 32-bit version if it detects you need that).

    But on running, it seems you need to pay between $30 and $110 (less a
    few cents). I could see underneath that box that it had found and could
    read (it showed the proper title) the book. I dismissed the registration
    box and tried dragging the book into one of the boxes, and a progress
    bar windowlet appeared - but didn't move at all. I uninstalled, which
    took me to a web page which gave me another download link and _talked_
    about a free version, but it took ages to find (on that site) somewhere
    I might get a three days' one - which involved sending an email. Which I
    have done; presumably they'll email a key in reply. No sign yet (after considerable time), so clearly not automated: if nothing by end of
    Monday, will uninstall again.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    There is no character, howsoever good and fine, but it can be destroyed
    by ridicule, howsoever poor and witless.
    -Mark Twain, author and humorist (1835-1910)

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Steve Hayes on Sat Aug 2 19:16:56 2025
    On 2025/8/2 17:6:49, Steve Hayes wrote:
    On Sat, 2 Aug 2025 08:30:03 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    []

    So - anyone familiar enough with the Kindle system to tell me how I
    _can_ convert this book -
    <https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/latejul25news.htm#Oxford> - to
    PDF or EPUB? Unfortunately, in as much as I understand these things,
    it's only available in Kindle (if that's the correct way to describe the
    situation). If calibre is the answer, I already have the DeDRM and KFX
    plugins. Or, can anyone tell me for definite that it _can't_ be done?>

    As I said before, I can read Kindle books on my Widows computer using
    the MobiPocket Reader, though when I tried to go to their web site its
    was 403 Forbidden.

    Apparently it closed down not long after Amazon took over Mobi - 2016, I think.>
    But you might be able to pick it up from a shareware distribution
    site.

    Yes, found it at https://mobipocket-reader.en.lo4d.com/download
    (download at your own risk). (5.35 MB .msi - pleasingly small these
    days!; is actually installer [didn't cause any net activity when I ran
    it]).>
    Unfortunately, although it seemed to install and run fine, it can't see
    my Kindle file. So I didn't get as far as seeing whether it's just a
    reader or can convert.>


    Incidentally: anyone know what _constitutes_ the Kindle file? In the
    folder B01N41TEO3_EBOK created in "My Kindle Content" during download
    (though the process seemed far more complex than just a download), there
    are multiple files: B01N41TEO3_EBOK.azw nearly 50 MB, lots of .res and
    one .md file with long names just of characters of sozes about 1 to 3
    MB, and a 1.05 KB .voucher file. Are all these part of the book, or just
    the .azw file (if just that one, what are the rest)?
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    There is no character, howsoever good and fine, but it can be destroyed
    by ridicule, howsoever poor and witless.
    -Mark Twain, author and humorist (1835-1910)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Sat Aug 2 22:59:24 2025
    On 2025-08-02 20:16, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/8/2 17:6:49, Steve Hayes wrote:
    On Sat, 2 Aug 2025 08:30:03 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    ...

    Incidentally: anyone know what _constitutes_ the Kindle file? In the
    folder B01N41TEO3_EBOK created in "My Kindle Content" during download
    (though the process seemed far more complex than just a download), there
    are multiple files: B01N41TEO3_EBOK.azw nearly 50 MB, lots of .res and
    one .md file with long names just of characters of sozes about 1 to 3
    MB, and a 1.05 KB .voucher file. Are all these part of the book, or just
    the .azw file (if just that one, what are the rest)?

    I don't know, but you can ask an AI, like https://chatgpt.com/ :-)

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Frank Slootweg@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 4 13:05:37 2025
    J. P. Gilliver <[email protected]> wrote:

    [OP deleted.]

    'Wild' suggestion: Why don't you try to get *another* Kindle e-book, preferably from Kindle itself and preferably with DRM, and try to
    convert that to de-DRMed epub format?

    That way you'll know if you have a general problem with Kindle DRM
    e-books or just with this particular one [1].

    Like Carlos, I don't do Kindle e-books, but Kobo ones. For Kobo, I
    could get some free - as in no-cost - DRM e-books, so probably Kindle
    has something like that as well.

    [1]
    The Oxford Dictionary of Family Names in Britain and Ireland https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/latejul25news.htm#Oxford

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Frank Slootweg on Wed Aug 6 23:20:34 2025
    On 2025/8/4 14:5:37, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    J. P. Gilliver <[email protected]> wrote:

    [OP deleted.]

    'Wild' suggestion: Why don't you try to get *another* Kindle e-book, preferably from Kindle itself and preferably with DRM, and try to
    convert that to de-DRMed epub format?

    That way you'll know if you have a general problem with Kindle DRM
    e-books or just with this particular one [1].

    With considerable assistance from ChatGPT, I finally managed to create a
    PDF version of the book. I'm not going to have trouble with other Kindle
    books, as this whole experience has put me off them for (what's left of
    my) life.>
    Like Carlos, I don't do Kindle e-books, but Kobo ones. For Kobo, I
    could get some free - as in no-cost - DRM e-books, so probably Kindle
    has something like that as well.

    [1]
    The Oxford Dictionary of Family Names in Britain and Ireland https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/latejul25news.htm#Oxford

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    a joke doesn't become a dad joke until it's full groan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Thu Aug 7 14:43:27 2025
    On 2025-08-07 00:20, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/8/4 14:5:37, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    J. P. Gilliver <[email protected]> wrote:

    [OP deleted.]

    'Wild' suggestion: Why don't you try to get *another* Kindle e-book,
    preferably from Kindle itself and preferably with DRM, and try to
    convert that to de-DRMed epub format?

    That way you'll know if you have a general problem with Kindle DRM
    e-books or just with this particular one [1].

    With considerable assistance from ChatGPT, I finally managed to create a
    PDF version of the book. I'm not going to have trouble with other Kindle books, as this whole experience has put me off them for (what's left of
    my) life.>

    Oh.

    Anyway, I'm glad you got it.


    Like Carlos, I don't do Kindle e-books, but Kobo ones. For Kobo, I
    could get some free - as in no-cost - DRM e-books, so probably Kindle
    has something like that as well.

    [1]
    The Oxford Dictionary of Family Names in Britain and Ireland
    https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/latejul25news.htm#Oxford



    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)