I know a lot of audiophiles out there will agree or disagree on this subject easily.

$ The Millionaire $
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Hello Erich B.!

** On Monday 07.02.22 - 12:56, Erich B. wrote to All:

I know a lot of audiophiles out there will agree or
disagree on this subject easily.

Nothing to debate about really. They are both vastly different
and offer different experiences.

A friend of mine commented on my sharing the washingtonpost
article for a few days ago:

"I still have some vinyl records and an expensive turntable
with a couple of premium cartridges. I meant to pull it out and
digitize the albums that I don't have on CD or otherwise.
However I don't miss the surface noise, even on recordings
without any inevitable scratches; the precision and delicacy
required to place the needle; the pre-cleaning of the record
and the wiping of the needle before each play; and, the
repetitive, annoying, sound made at the end of the album as the
needle idled near the center waiting to be relieved of its, and
my, misery. No nostalgia here."

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I know a lot of audiophiles out there will agree or disagree on this subject easily.

The thing that always bothered me about vinyl was the Pop... Pop... Pop. No matter how hard I tried all my vinyl ended up with that Pop... Pop... Pop, at least the well used vinyl.

That sound drives me up the wall. I am so much happier with a CD.

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Hello Alan!

** On Monday 07.02.22 - 13:06, you wrote:

The thing that always bothered me about vinyl was the
Pop... Pop... Pop. No matter how hard I tried all my vinyl
ended up with that Pop... Pop... Pop, at least the well
used vinyl.

"all" your vinyl?

I had the occassional persistent pop on a fresh album, but upon
closer expection most of the time there was some kind of
obstruction that was easily removed with a sharp pin.

That sound drives me up the wall. I am so much happier
with a CD.

Most of the time I like to queue up at least 2 or 3 recordings
on my 5-disc CD player. Plus, I like to use the randomize
feature a lot to give me a surprise each and every time.

Convenience has overtaken nostalgia.

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The thing that always bothered me about vinyl was the
Pop... Pop... Pop. No matter how hard I tried all my vinyl
ended up with that Pop... Pop... Pop, at least the well
used vinyl.

"all" your vinyl?

I still have a turntable but it hasn't been used in years.

It was only a problem it quite parts of the music. Sometimes you get snap, crackle, Pop! I remember this from old times. I actually heard that snap crackle pop sound on a CD (I forget which one) that someone must have taken a sound byte from vinyl.

I had the occassional persistent pop on a fresh album, but upon
closer expection most of the time there was some kind of
obstruction that was easily removed with a sharp pin.

I think I am intolerant to that sound. Others didn't seem to mind or hear it. In the vinyl days I was very careful with records when I was handling them. They went back into their sleeve that also had a platic cover I think to prevent static.

As hard as I tried though, I couldn't get rid of that sound. I bought more than one copy of several albums, and I always put my music on tape to save ware on the vinyl. I was a bit of an audiophile in those days.

That sound drives me up the wall. I am so much happier
with a CD.

Most of the time I like to queue up at least 2 or 3 recordings
on my 5-disc CD player. Plus, I like to use the randomize
feature a lot to give me a surprise each and every time.

Convenience has overtaken nostalgia.

By and large my collection today is on the HD. I have many CDs but were they are now I am not sure. It's so much easier to find/play music or movies through the computer.

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Re: Vinyl vs CD
By: August Abolins to Erich B. on Mon Feb 07 2022 04:04 pm

Hello Erich B.!

** On Monday 07.02.22 - 12:56, Erich B. wrote to All:

I know a lot of audiophiles out there will agree or
disagree on this subject easily.

Nothing to debate about really. They are both vastly different
and offer different experiences.

A friend of mine commented on my sharing the washingtonpost
article for a few days ago:

"I still have some vinyl records and an expensive turntable
with a couple of premium cartridges. I meant to pull it out and
digitize the albums that I don't have on CD or otherwise.
However I don't miss the surface noise, even on recordings
without any inevitable scratches; the precision and delicacy
required to place the needle; the pre-cleaning of the record
and the wiping of the needle before each play; and, the
repetitive, annoying, sound made at the end of the album as the
needle idled near the center waiting to be relieved of its, and
my, misery. No nostalgia here."

Agreed. And there's really no additinoal fidelity there, in fact quite the opposite: measurably less dynamic range and frequency response.

I think most of the preference for vinyl comes from the positive emotions of the memories that the physical experience of handling vinyl records brings. I get this reaction just *holding* a 12" album/sleeve. I don't even need to play the record! :-)
--
digital man (rob)

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AUGUST ABOLINS wrote to ERICH B. <=-

A friend of mine commented on my sharing the washingtonpost
article for a few days ago:

I feel pretty much the same way. Times have changed, we are busier.
It's so much easier to use <insert music streaming service>.

But at the same time I understand the appeal of doing it old school.
Turning on all the components, pulling a record out of the sleeves,
clean it and then position the cartridge, check the speed and then sit
and enjoy music while looking at the album cover. Enjoying an adult beverage....

Sadly I don't have time for that. I do often put on a nice set of
headphones or IEMs, fire up my outboard DAC and enjoy an album
streaming from <insert music streaming service>. But I don't have to do
much prep and I don't have to flip the album over.

Kev


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ALAN IANSON wrote to ERICH B. <=-

The thing that always bothered me about vinyl was the Pop... Pop...
Pop. No matter how hard I tried all my vinyl ended up with that Pop... Pop... Pop, at least the well used vinyl.

Same here and fact is it can be a defective medium. I had an album that
I listened to 100s of times in my 20s, it had a skip on a certain song
and now when I hear that song play on spotify, I am always expecting
that skip, and when it doesn't happen it catches me of guard LOL

Kev

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ROB SWINDELL wrote to AUGUST ABOLINS <=-

I think most of the preference for vinyl comes from the positive
emotions of the memories that the physical experience of handling vinyl records brings. I get this reaction just *holding* a 12" album/sleeve.
I don't even need to play the record! :-) --

Exactly! It's the experience not that it sounds any better.

Kev


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Hello Kevin Nunn!

** On Wednesday 09.02.22 - 11:40, you wrote to me:

I feel pretty much the same way. Times have changed, we
are busier. It's so much easier to use <insert music
streaming service>.

But at the same time I understand the appeal of doing it
old school. Turning on all the components, pulling a
record out of the sleeves, clean it and then position the
cartridge, check the speed and then sit and enjoy music
while looking at the album cover. Enjoying an adult
beverage....

Perhaps it's the same phenomenon for revisiting retro-anything,
including running late 80's BBS software. :/ There's a kind
of joy in establishing all the configuration requirements for a
smoothly operating system.

Sadly I don't have time for that. I do often put on a nice
set of headphones or IEMs, fire up my outboard DAC and
enjoy an album streaming from <insert music streaming
service>. But I don't have to do much prep and I don't
have to flip the album over.

I find application for all alternative methods for listening to
music.

I don't have 24/7 unlimited internet at home, so.. CDs and LPs
are used depending on circumstances and in which room I want to
settle down.

I primarily access Spotify at my shop where I have DSL. When a
song plays, it's rather convenient to look at the originating
album to try some other tunes, or even start a playlist of
"covers" of a particular song.

It's all good!

But when playing an LP, it's more like a special event. I'll
take the time to focus on listening to it (and studying every
inch of the LP cover!) LOL. Whereas, a CD or a stream is often
relegated as a background event.
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Hello Rob Swindell!

** On Monday 07.02.22 - 18:08, you wrote to me:

"I still have some vinyl records and an expensive turntable
with a couple of premium cartridges. I meant to pull it out and
digitize the albums that I don't have on CD or otherwise.
However I don't miss the surface noise, even on recordings
without any inevitable scratches; the precision and delicacy
required to place the needle; the pre-cleaning of the record
and the wiping of the needle before each play; and, the
repetitive, annoying, sound made at the end of the album as the
needle idled near the center waiting to be relieved of its, and
my, misery. No nostalgia here."

Agreed. And there's really no additinoal fidelity there,
in fact quite the opposite: measurably less dynamic range
and frequency response.

That might be true on paper, but the actual listening
experience can be different. I remember when the first CD
players came out, they made every disc sound terrible. It was
something to do with the implementation of the converters/
sampling.

I have some albums that sound much better than their CD
counterparts to this day.

I don't see why my friend whom I quoted has a problem with
"surface noise" on LPs that don't even have scratches. Maybe he
can't stand the initial "silent" noise when cueing up the
beginning of an LP and the noise at the end. He told me that
that his turntable did not feature an auto-cue mechanism nor an
auto-lift for the tonearm. Those were options for his high-end
machine.

I started buying CDs *before* I had a player of my own. But I
had a chance to play them on other people's CD players. Most of
the time they sounded terrible! When I auditioned the same
discs on later-generation "better" players at the hi-shops,
they sounded great.

My first player was the Sony 505ESD (with a dual D/A converter
and digital-OUT). It was around $500-$700 in late 80's dollars.
(I still have it, but it started to develop skipping issues
after 15 years of use.) Some people are listing theirs for
over $500 on ebay right now! But I digress..

I think most of the preference for vinyl comes from the
positive emotions of the memories that the physical
experience of handling vinyl records brings. I get this
reaction just *holding* a 12" album/sleeve. I don't even
need to play the record! :-) --

LOL. I don't stop at bemusing the LP cover like you do. I'll
will certainly not hesitate to give the LP a spin.

But how do you explain the rise in LP sales apparently amongst
a NEW generation of listeners who don't have "emotions of the
memories" reference? My guess that the rise is dominated
primarily by people who grew up in the 50's-80's when LPs were
still prominent - and this soon will fade.
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Hello Alan Ianson!

** On Monday 07.02.22 - 14:00, you wrote to me:

As hard as I tried though, I couldn't get rid of that
sound. I bought more than one copy of several albums, and
I always put my music on tape to save ware on the vinyl. I
was a bit of an audiophile in those days.

I never had to buy extra copies of the same album. On the rare
occassion, I *would* encounter a seemingly defective LP, but I
simply returned it to exchange for another one.

I too.. would create a "master" copy on cassette tape and play
that most of the time. That also gave me the chance to avoid a
track that I didn't care for.

By and large my collection today is on the HD. I have many
CDs but were they are now I am not sure. It's so much
easier to find/play music or movies through the computer.

And.. it can be more fun to search for a tune or artist and cue
up everything related.

Since Spotify allows downloads, and since I don't have
unlimited high-speed internet at home, the goal is relegate an
old Thinkpad T40p laptop to act as my music server connected to
my hifi. When I need to build my collection, I simply take the
laptop where I have access to DSL, download the tunes I want,
and then just take the machine home.

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AUGUST ABOLINS wrote to KEVIN NUNN <=-

Perhaps it's the same phenomenon for revisiting retro-anything,
including running late 80's BBS software. :/ There's a kind

LOL good point.

I primarily access Spotify at my shop where I have DSL. When a
song plays, it's rather convenient to look at the originating
album to try some other tunes, or even start a playlist of
"covers" of a particular song.

Yes, lots of what Spotify (and others) do are great benefits. I've
discovered several new bands that I enjoy (and some that I don't) by
playing Spotify's Daily Mixes or other playlists that I come across.

But when playing an LP, it's more like a special event. I'll
take the time to focus on listening to it (and studying every
inch of the LP cover!) LOL. Whereas, a CD or a stream is often
relegated as a background event.

True, very much so.

I often tell myself I am going to sit down, and listen to this album or
that (streaming) and it's not long before I am distracted, doing
something on my phone, tablet or laptop. That probably would not happen
so easily if I was listing to an album.

I am still trying to set aside some listening time, but it's almost
impossible sometimes.

Kev

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