Hello Alan,

Plus, isn't most everyone left on Fidonet a sysop?

Right, there must be 10 or more sysops for every user today. It was the reverse when I first joined Fidonet.

Sysops have never been good at promotion. We'd prefer to have our minds into code rather than marketing. The results can speak for itself.


../|ug

--- WinPoint Beta 5 (359.1)
* Origin: Am I Pointing In The Right Direction? (2:221/1.58)

Hello Wilfred,

On 18.03.19, you wrote to nathanael,

I think one of the first things that could be done is to reduce the
number of sysop echoes; some seem absolutely redundant, others
ambiguous, and many just plain dead.

Good luck with that. Maybe you can get some areas removed from the NA backbone, and related lists. But that doesn't mean they are
automatically removed from systems around the world...

Here's an idea.

How about a server that maintains an account with every active BBS that has fidonet echos, fetches the echolist from each BBS once a month or so, and produces a list of them for all to see. The way I remember it, the echolists indicate which ones are already hosted and which ones are not. Then, based on that info, the results can be compared to the BACKBONE.NA, .NO and whatever.

What's left = we see what is dropped, but not removed.



../|ug

--- WinPoint Beta 5 (359.1)
* Origin: Reluctantly Revisiting Fidonet (2:221/1.58)

Hi August,

On 2019-03-18 19:53:33, you wrote to me:

Good luck with that. Maybe you can get some areas removed from the
NA backbone, and related lists. But that doesn't mean they are
automatically removed from systems around the world...

Here's an idea.

How about a server that maintains an account with every active BBS
that has fidonet echos, fetches the echolist from each BBS once a
month or so, and produces a list of them for all to see.

You never think about the practicality of your ideas, do you?


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello Wilfred,

On 19.03.19, you wrote:

You never think about the practicality of your ideas, do you?

:( That feels like a low blow, my friend!

I set my bar hi.

I do realize that would be a daunting task to do manually, that is why the automation is the key. It may be just as simple to *ask* via netmail who has what - but that is so boring.



../|ug

--- WinPoint Beta 5 (359.1)
* Origin: Reluctantly Revisiting Fidonet (2:221/1.58)

Hi August,

On 2019-03-19 22:31:19, you wrote to me:

You never think about the practicality of your ideas, do you?

:( That feels like a low blow, my friend!

I set my bar hi.

I do realize that would be a daunting task to do manually, that is why

the

automation is the key. It may be just as simple to *ask* via netmail who has what - but that is so boring.

You suggested setting up secure links with all nodes in the nodelist. That sounds like a full time paid job to me. ;)
And I suspect most won't even respond to the netmails send to them.

And automation (if even possible) needs to be created. Are you going to write a detailed requirements document? Are you going to convince "all" the active fidonet developpers this is the greatest idea since sliced bread? Are you going to pay them for their time to implement your idea? Not to even mention that part of the used software is abandon-ware, and can't be changed.

And after that, all used software out there, on all systems needs to be updated. Sounds like an impossible job to me. It would probably take years to even get half way...


Having said that, I don't want you to stop spouting your (wild) ideas, because there might be some interesting pieces among them. ;)


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

On 03-21-19 11:04, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to August Abolins <=-

Having said that, I don't want you to stop spouting your (wild) ideas, because there might be some interesting pieces among them. ;)

That's called "brainstorming", and it can be a very productive and creative activity. It certainly is valuable to air new ideas. They may or may not be practical, but passing them in front of more eyes means more can have input, and refine the idea, make it more practical.

The way I see things, Fidonet (and FTNs in general) have the potential to bridge the old and the new. Sysops should be free to run whatever they want. That means legacy software needs to be supported. A simple example is the legacy software was written to use modems and POTS lines, which are becoming increasingly rare in today's environment. However, technology such as serial to telnet gateways and virtual modems allow this software to work over the Internet. Similarly, the modular nature of legacy BBSs means you can swap out the existing mailer and replace it with binkd, and make use of the binkp protocol.

So, there are ways to bridge the old and the new. Fidonet should be a place that both preserves - in a living fashion - our history, while advancing BBS technology into an Internet connected future. This in itself is an idea that has spin-off effects. One is that today's BBSs allow multiple means of access.
YTou can use traditional means - terminal sessions, offline mail, etc over both dialup (where available) and Internet (telnet/rlogin/ssh) sessions, or you
can point your favourite newsreader, FTP client or web browser to some BBSs and
interact with them using methods more familiar to modern users. The purists may not like this, but this is the reality of modern BBSing. This modern multi
protocol approach means there's more likely to be something for everyone. Now THAT is something the Internet itself has struggled with. The Internet's nearest equivalent to a BBS is the web forum, and they tend to use a one size fits all web interface. If you're lucky, you may be able to choose a skin, but
that's about it. And for me, web forum interfaces suck big time. :(

So, let's think about the future while preserving our past.


... A perversion of nature... how exciting!
=== MultiMail/Win v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.03-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)

Hello Wilfred,

Having said that, I don't want you to stop spouting your (wild) ideas, because there might be some interesting pieces among them. ;)

Hmmmm. Not sure what to make of being told I have "wild ideas". :/ Maybe the idea isn't communicated properly in the first place.

I still think the active echo "bot" could actually work.

Failing all that, some of the stats tables that get published aren't too bad to work with. The key is to de-mystify things to the "user" or visitor to a bbs/system so that they know which echos are best to jump into right away. Nothing worse than posting a good hello message or a ligitimate question and not get a result because either the echo is dead, has a limited distribution, or the last known message was really old.



../|ug

--- WinPoint Beta 5 (359.1)
* Origin: Reluctantly Revisiting Fidonet (2:221/1.58)

Hello Wilfred,

You suggested setting up secure links with all nodes in the nodelist. That sounds like a full time paid job to me. ;) And I suspect most won't even respond to the netmails send to them.

Maybe connections to some key echomail movers is all that is needed. It could be quite a task to keep at it, for sure.

And automation (if even possible) needs to be created. Are you going to write a detailed requirements document? Are you going to convince "all" the active fidonet developpers this is the greatest idea since sliced bread? Are you going to pay them for their time to implement your idea?

When you put it that way, sounds overwhelming. I'd be encouraged not to even start. :( But one step and experiment at a time to figure out the right process.

Not to even mention that part of the used software is abandon-ware, and can't be changed.

Like what software?

And after that, all used software out there, on all systems needs to be updated. Sounds like an impossible job to me. It would probably take years to even get half way...

The current stats lists and echo lists have to be interpreted manually to figure out which ones are actuall flowing and worth connecting to. I'm just wondering if there might be an automated way to do it.



../|ug

--- WinPoint Beta 5 (359.1)
* Origin: Reluctantly Revisiting Fidonet (2:221/1.58)

Hi August,

On 2019-03-22 02:12:42, you wrote to me:

Maybe connections to some key echomail movers is all that is needed.

It would certainly help if you could get a few key people to volunteer to share their echomail "stats". If you get it from the right systems arround the world, you can probably cover 95% of echomail going around.

Not to even mention that part of the used software is abandon-ware,
and can't be changed.

Like what software?

I don't keep a list. ;)

But just look at the dates of the software in the Fidogazette list, to get an impression.

The current stats lists and echo lists have to be interpreted manually
to figure out which ones are actuall flowing and worth connecting to.
I'm just wondering if there might be an automated way to do it.

FMail has a few building blocks already implemented for your idea. It has section 8e implemented of http://ftsc.org/docs/fsc-0057.003.
It can send these BCL files automatically on a configurable interval to linked systems. And they can be automatically processed and compared to previous echomail lists for that system. So I get periodic (like weekly, but that is configurable) reports for what changed in the echomail configuration of my links that also use FMail...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Maybe connections to some key echomail movers is all that is needed. It could
be quite a task to keep at it, for sure.

My BBS has a command line option to generate message area stats. I can make them available online (FTP) so you you could scrape that file if you like, or I could import it into a netmail and send it to you periodically.

Just let me know.. :)

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)