Hi!

The Fidoweb is here!

This is news for me. :-o

I've just found some statistics about FidoWeb (from 2016 to 2019) but nothing else than this, after 2019...

Last week's statistics from the Fidoweb
By EchoTime, 2:203/0

(Some nets may have lost their last
digit for technical reasons)

pkt (toss-toss) msg (write-toss)
nodes mean dev no mean dev no

I can't see what is Fidoweb.

It's something related to parallel routing?

To increase the number of uplinks?

How to manage the dupe flooding?

Where can I find info about FidoWeb?


Thanks in advance...


A reveure!!
Enric

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-7
* Origin: Pursuit Special - The last of the V8 Interceptors (2:343/107.1)

Hi!

The Fidoweb is here!

This is news for me. :-o

I've just found some statistics about FidoWeb (from 2016 to 2019) but nothing else than this, after 2019...

Last week's statistics from the Fidoweb
By EchoTime, 2:203/0

(Some nets may have lost their last
digit for technical reasons)

pkt (toss-toss) msg (write-toss)
nodes mean dev no mean dev no

I can't see what is Fidoweb.

The fidoweb is from Z2. Many nodes connect together to mesh the message areas.

It results in many dupes and little loss.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-7
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

It results in many dupes and little loss.

And if the system is set-up correctly with decent software, then it doesn't matter. The dupes are filtered-out and all is well.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

It results in many dupes and little loss.

And if the system is set-up correctly with decent software, then it doesn't matter. The dupes are filtered-out and all is well.

Indeed, the dupes are unavoidable if you want to get to little loss or better, zero loss.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-7
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hi Enric,

On 2026-07-27 07:27:30, you wrote to All:

The Fidoweb is here!

This is news for me. :-o

Where can I find info about FidoWeb?

A more technical article can be found here:

http://eljaco.se/FILES/fnews/FNEWST40.ZIP

"Notes on a topless echomail distribution system"


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.4.1-B20260520
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Enric Lleal Serra -> All skrev 2026-07-27 08:27:

Where can I find info about FidoWeb?

Didn't I just give you that in the article? ;)

The weekly FidoWeb statistics is always in the Snooze, not only "from 2016 to 2019".

If you don't know the meaning of "mean" and "deviation", just ask. Either me or Google.

--

Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it.

// Pericles

..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.2; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091121
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

On 2026 Jul 27 03:16:40, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

It results in many dupes and little loss.

And if the system is set-up correctly with decent software, then it
doesn't matter. The dupes are filtered-out and all is well.

Indeed, the dupes are unavoidable if you want to get to little loss or better, zero loss.

don't forget bypassing feed cuts which also negates moderators...

)\/(ark

"The soul of a small kitten in the body of a mighty dragon. Look on my majesty, ye mighty, and despair! Or bring me catnip. Your choice. Oooh, a shiny thing!"
... I asked you not to tell me that. - Maxwell Smart
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

"The soul of a small kitten in the body of a mighty dragon. Look on my majesty, ye mighty, and despair! Or bring me catnip. Your choice. Oooh, a shiny thing!"

This reminds me of Felix Kasza.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Indeed, the dupes are unavoidable if you want to get to little loss or
better, zero loss.

don't forget bypassing feed cuts which also negates moderators...

That's true. If a feed cut was ever wanted by a moderator you would need the support of those nodes in Z2 to implement it.

Fidonet is truly a free speech network. I'm not making a judgement if that is good or bad just saying that is the case.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-7
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hi Alan,

I can't see what is Fidoweb.

The fidoweb is from Z2. Many nodes connect together to mesh the message areas.
It results in many dupes and little loss.

I think I got it. Thank you!


A reveure!!
Enric

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-7
* Origin: Pursuit Special - The last of the V8 Interceptors (2:343/107.1)

Hi Wilfred,

Where can I find info about FidoWeb?

A more technical article can be found here:

Understood. The NADS... ;-m It's curious...

Thank you.


A reveure!!
Enric

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-7
* Origin: Pursuit Special - The last of the V8 Interceptors (2:343/107.1)

Hi Bj�rn,

Didn't I just give you that in the article? ;)

Yes, yes... I understand the concept now.

What I don't understand is its application: aren't there any regulations regarding this? Is it permitted to link to any node, without location restrictions? Can all echomail be exchanged with all nodes? Does netmail only respect the link/routing structure when it's not a direct netmail?

I assume all the answers are: Yes.

Interesting. I will check with my colleagues from R34. ;-)

If you don't know the meaning of "mean" and "deviation", just ask. Either me or Google.

Do these concepts apply to our conversation? :-? Is there a minimum and maximum number of links allowed in the NADS/FidoWeb setting up?


A reveure!!
Enric

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-7
* Origin: Pursuit Special - The last of the V8 Interceptors (2:343/107.1)

Hi Bj�rn,

The weekly FidoWeb statistics is always in the Snooze, not only "from 2016
to 2019".

Sorry, I missed this point: you're right, there are a lot of numbers with this topic, beyond my dates.

A reveure!!
Enric

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-7
* Origin: Pursuit Special - The last of the V8 Interceptors (2:343/107.1)

Alan,

That's true. If a feed cut was ever wanted by a moderator you would need the support of those nodes in Z2 to implement it.

I don't think a feed-cut has ever really worked. Someone was always willing to help. I found that out in 1994 ...

Fidonet is truly a free speech network. I'm not making a judgement if
that is good or bad just saying that is the case.

100% ... however, never was it implied that several of those practicing the free speech had intellectual levels matching that desire .... meaning there was nothing noteworthy to notice in their words. Attempting to insult someone is an action of 'free speech', but what does it achieve?

Plus, after so many years you know the flock and can accurately predict who will react about what and how.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hello Alan,

On Monday July 27 2026 16:40, you wrote to mark lewis:

don't forget bypassing feed cuts which also negates moderators...

That's true. If a feed cut was ever wanted by a moderator you would
need the support of those nodes in Z2 to implement it.

That the Fidoweb is a Z2 thing is a misunderstanding. Nodes from al zones are particpating.

See my Fidonews article. http://eljaco.se/FILES/fnews/FNEWST40.ZIP

"Notes on a topless echomail distribution system"

What is now called the Fidoweb actually started with a link between me and Roy Witt to bypass the blockade set up by the instigators of the Fidonews coup.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Hi Enric,

On 2026-07-28 07:06:18, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

I can't see what is Fidoweb.

The fidoweb is from Z2. Many nodes connect together to mesh the message
areas. It results in many dupes and little loss.

I think I got it. Thank you!

It's not a Z2 specific thing!

And btw the fidoweb is a concept, not an entity you must join, or proclaim to be part of.

Basically anyone with more then 1 link (that isn't a "leaf node") is part of the fidoweb, if they like it or not. ;-)

So Alan is also part of the fidoweb. ;-)


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.4.1-B20260520
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi Enric,

On 2026-07-28 07:19:42, you wrote to Bj�rn Felten:

What I don't understand is its application:

Make echomail (feeds) fail tolerant, and thus more reliable.

aren't there any regulations regarding this?

No. Fidonet is an anarchy anyway. ;-)

Is it permitted to link to any node,

Yes.

without location restrictions?

Yes.

Can all echomail be exchanged with all nodes?

Basically yes. But some areas have their own resctrictions.

Does netmail only respect the link/routing structure when it's not a direct netmail?

I don't understand the question. Those are two different things: direct and routed netmail.
- A direct netmail, is delivered directly at it's destination.
- A routed netmail just follows the configured route on each system it travels through.

Btw: The fidoweb has nothing to do with netmail.

I assume all the answers are: Yes.

No. ;-)

Is there a minimum and maximum number of links allowed in the NADS/FidoWeb setting up?

With 1 link you are not following the fidoweb concept. With 2 it depends on who you have linked to. But the minimum number of links is 2.

The maximum is the number of nodes in the nodelist. ;-)


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.4.1-B20260520
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

On 2026 Jul 28 11:52:48, you wrote to Enric Lleal Serra:

Is there a minimum and maximum number of links allowed in the
NADS/FidoWeb setting up?

With 1 link you are not following the fidoweb concept. With 2 it depends on
who you have linked to. But the minimum number of links is 2.

you keep leaving out the key fundamental aspect of the "web"... that aspect being "more than one link per echo"... going by what you wrote, having one link for echoA and one link for echoB follows the concept... but that's how all echos were once distributed back when making long distance and/or international phone calls cost $$$...

having more than one link for an echo is key... especially when those two links are connected to each other in a triangle fashion... more than 2 links in one echo becomes a "fully connected polygon" with some legs being longer than others... that's what the various "backbone star hubs" in the various backbones did from the beginning... it is no different other than there now being many ad hoc polygons for some echos...

all in all, the web opened people's eyes in the same manner that satellite distribution opened people's eyes... both showed that each system can connect to any other system they have an agreement with and exchange mail... many thought the "branches of a tree" distribution flow was "forced" when it never was... people chose to use those distribution branches to keep their phone bills at a manageable level... this also meant they agreed to whatever restrictions may have been in place in that distribution system...

some did not agree and found their own links for the echos they were interested in... sure, they had a larger phone bill but they got what they wanted when and how they wanted it... eg: some systems made only one or two calls to their feed per day... others called on-demand at any time... this made some feeds faster than others but this carried that additional $$$ cost, too...

in some places in the world, all phone calls costs $$$... in other places, local calls were free... where fido started, here in North America, local calls were free and it made sense to have one system in each local area distribute mail from calls to a/some system(s) in other areas... areas that were long distance calls and thus incurred a cost... generally this was the NC of the local area making those calls and thus was born the net coordinators doing the heavy lifting of getting the mail from/to other nets for further distribution... it was quite organic and made sense, really...

)\/(ark

"The soul of a small kitten in the body of a mighty dragon. Look on my majesty, ye mighty, and despair! Or bring me catnip. Your choice. Oooh, a shiny thing!"
... There are more planes in the ocean than there are submarines in the sky. ---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hi mark,

On 2026-07-28 08:04:08, you wrote to me:

Is there a minimum and maximum number of links allowed in the
NADS/FidoWeb setting up?

With 1 link you are not following the fidoweb concept. With 2 it depends
on who you have linked to. But the minimum number of links is 2.

you keep leaving out the key fundamental aspect of the "web"... that aspect
being "more than one link per echo"... going by what you wrote, having one link for echoA and one link for echoB follows the concept...

You are right of course, and it was what I meant, but didn't write down clearly...

but that's how all echos were once distributed back when making long distance and/or international phone calls cost $$$...

Indeed, before the internet, most or all links were cost driven. So a branch system made more sense...

And it took a trigger (the fidonews coupe), to make people realize the branch system wasn't necessary anymore, and a mesh system made much more sense.

having more than one link for an echo is key... especially when those
two links are connected to each other in a triangle fashion... more
than 2 links in one echo becomes a "fully connected polygon" with some legs being longer than others...

A fully connected polygon (where every node is connected to every other node connected to an area), isn't what you want. The seenby's would become quite big. ;-) And there wouldn't be any dupes. And you want some dupes, to have redundancy...

that's what the various "backbone star hubs" in the various backbones
did from the beginning... it is no different other than there now
being many ad hoc polygons for some echos...

all in all, the web opened people's eyes in the same manner that satellite distribution opened people's eyes...

Indeed.

both showed that each system can connect to any other system they have
an agreement with and exchange mail... many thought the "branches of a tree" distribution flow was "forced" when it never was...

It was "forced" by cost.

people chose to use those distribution branches to keep their phone
bills at a manageable level... this also meant they agreed to whatever restrictions may have been in place in that distribution system...

Because there wasn't much choice.

some did not agree and found their own links for the echos they were interested in... sure, they had a larger phone bill but they got what they wanted when and how they wanted it... eg: some systems made only one or two
calls to their feed per day... others called on-demand at any time... this made some feeds faster than others but this carried that additional $$$ cost,
too...

You could do that for a few areas, but doing it the way it is done now, would have cost way too much...


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.4.1-B20260520
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Wilfred,

The maximum is the number of nodes in the nodelist. ;-)

Minus one.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Michiel,

That the Fidoweb is a Z2 thing is a misunderstanding. Nodes from al zones are particpating.

100%

What is now called the Fidoweb actually started with a link between me
and Roy Witt to bypass the blockade set up by the instigators of the Fidonews coup.

Janis Kracht, Bob Seaborn, Roy Witt ... they're all dead. That's a coincidence.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hi Ward,

On 2026-07-28 21:59:37, you wrote to me:

The maximum is the number of nodes in the nodelist. ;-)

Minus one.

You are sharp, today! ;-)


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.4.1-B20260520
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi Wilfred,

It's not a Z2 specific thing!

Angel and Carlos have introduced me how are they managing this. I think I have it clear...

And btw the fidoweb is a concept, not an entity you must join, or proclaim to be part of.

Maybe it's the reason for the obfuscation and darkness involving this... :-DDD People use it but don't talk about it (like the Fight Club).

Basically anyone with more then 1 link (that isn't a "leaf node") is part of the fidoweb, if they like it or not. ;-)

Thank you, Wilfred...

So Alan is also part of the fidoweb. ;-)

Acknowledge!


A reveure!!
Enric


--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-7
* Origin: Pursuit Special - The last of the V8 Interceptors (2:343/107.1)

Hi Wilfred,

What I don't understand is its application:

Make echomail (feeds) fail tolerant, and thus more reliable.

I referred to how to implement it: I contact via netmail a SysOp of my choose? Does it have to be something public "ey! I need some links!" ?

Btw: The fidoweb has nothing to do with netmail.

This was my rhetorical point. :-) Thanks to confirm.

The maximum is the number of nodes in the nodelist. ;-)

Very illustrative. Thanks again, Wilfred.


A reveure!!
Enric

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-7
* Origin: Pursuit Special - The last of the V8 Interceptors (2:343/107.1)

Hi Enric,

On 2026-07-29 07:13:04, you wrote to me:

What I don't understand is its application:

Make echomail (feeds) fail tolerant, and thus more reliable.

I referred to how to implement it: I contact via netmail a SysOp of my choose?

Yes.

Does it have to be something public "ey! I need some links!" ?

Could also work. ;-)


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.4.1-B20260520
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)