• Shutdown

    From Adam Vandeuson@1:229/426 to All on Fri Oct 10 16:59:34 2025
    So... is anybody else tired of the fucks in Washington suggesting that they aren't the direct cause of this bullshit? Holding back funding for vital services which benefit average everyday Americans is...

    Oh well, can't expect the Orange pedo and his cult to actually apply critical thinking, can we?

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  • From Matt Munson@1:103/705 to Adam Vandeuson on Fri Oct 10 20:25:14 2025
    Re: Shutdown
    By: Adam Vandeuson to All on Fri Oct 10 2025 04:59 pm

    So... is anybody else tired of the fucks in Washington suggesting tha aren't the direct cause of this bullshit? Holding back funding for vi services which benefit average everyday Americans is...

    Oh well, can't expect the Orange pedo and his cult to actually apply thinking, can we?
    Perhaps if Josh Shapiro was nominated instead of Kamala, we would not have Trump again.

    We should just have an automatic cut of 5% if a budget can not be turned in on time and keep the government running. People would rather work for 95% their pay than being furloughed or fired.
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  • From Adam Vandeuson@1:229/426 to Matt Munson on Sat Oct 11 00:26:11 2025
    We should just have an automatic cut of 5% if a budget can not be turned in time and keep the government running. People would rather work for 95% thei pay than being furloughed or fired.

    Can you imagine if the Anerican political system was advanced enough to have the concept of a vote of no confidence? Too bad most Americans simply don't care.

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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/201 to Adam Vandeuson on Sat Oct 11 11:00:48 2025
    So... is anybody else tired of the fucks in Washington suggesting that they aren't the direct cause of this bullshit? Holding back funding for vital services which benefit average everyday Americans is...

    I'm tired of the filibuster. Republicans are what America asked for, and I
    want them to be able to do what America elected them to do.

    I'm part of the proud majority who voted for this. We wanted to cut spending and if this is what it takes then so be it.

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  • From Matt Munson@1:103/705 to Adam Vandeuson on Sat Oct 11 14:36:52 2025
    Re: Re: Shutdown
    By: Adam Vandeuson to Matt Munson on Sat Oct 11 2025 12:26 am

    Can you imagine if the Anerican political system was advanced enough the concept of a vote of no confidence? Too bad most Americans simply care.
    We dont have a British styled system where we could just reject our congress and force a new election. It would be easier if we had a parlimentary system.
    I would like it to be 5 year terms for members of the house, and 7 year terms for senators. Maximum of 4 terms for the senate.
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  • From Matt Munson@1:103/705 to Aaron Thomas on Sat Oct 11 14:38:36 2025
    Re: Re: Shutdown
    By: Aaron Thomas to Adam Vandeuson on Sat Oct 11 2025 11:00 am

    I'm tired of the filibuster. Republicans are what America asked for, want them to be able to do what America elected them to do.
    Filibuster protects the minority, but it should not be designed to perpetually delay stuff either.

    it should be 60 votes to pass instantly.
    maximum of 1 month delay.
    Then majority vote would be required after 30 days where the filibuster ends.

    Filibuster should be a temporary delay.
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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/201 to Matt Munson on Sat Oct 11 16:51:22 2025
    Filibuster protects the minority, but it should not be designed to perpetually delay stuff either.

    I appreciate you explaining that to me. But I don't understand the point of protecting the minority. Doesn't that equate to the opposite of democracy?

    it should be 60 votes to pass instantly.

    Aren't we stuck with everything the way it is though? We'd need a huge majority to get rid of or to modify the filibuster.

    Filibuster should be a temporary delay.

    That sounds perfect. That way the minority can have a little heads-up, but then they'd ultimately have to face the music. (That way they can sell their stocks first.)

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  • From Gerhard Strangar@2:240/2188.575 to Matt Munson on Mon Oct 13 09:11:22 2025
    Am 12 Oct 25 11:56:43 schrob Matt Munson an Aaron Thomas zum Thema
    <Re: Shutdown>

    we would not have equal marriage rights for non straight people if stuff like proposition 8 was intact because the majority wanted to ban it for non straight people.

    Marriage was a way of guaranteeing an income for women in a world where they were not allowed to go to school or work. Back then, it would have been not very clever for a woman to marry another woman. And on the other hand, men coming home from work didn't have any instant food to put into the microwave or a machine for cleaning their clothes. Marriage became unimportant, that's what really changed.



    Tschoe mit Oe
    Gerhard
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  • From Dr. What@1:342/201 to Aaron Thomas on Mon Oct 13 04:09:04 2025
    Aaron Thomas wrote to Dr. What <=-

    But I still disagree with it.

    We still have a "majority rule", but it's tempered with "but the majority can't overrule these laws". We also have a process in place to change the Constitution - but it requires a super-duper-majority and time, by design.

    The minority is still being controlled by
    the majority (mission failed) and the filibuister is probably the real reason why congress never does anything useful.

    I can think of thousands of other reasons why congress never does anything useful. The filibuster is simply something that stands out.

    And it's part of the process to prevent the tyranny of the majority.


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  • From IB Joe@1:342/201 to Aaron Thomas on Mon Oct 13 09:04:58 2025
    On 12 Oct 2025, Aaron Thomas said the following...


    I get that now; some argue that 51% of the politically active population should not control those who don't vote, can't vote, or have unpopular ideas.

    But I still disagree with it. The minority is still being controlled by the majority (mission failed) and the filibuister is probably the real reason why congress never does anything useful.


    The Democrats and the Filibuster you should say!!!!

    Recall Senator Democrat Robert Byrd, an X-KKK member, filibustered the 1964 Civil Rights Act...

    The Republicans overcame the filibuster and as a result this was eventually signed into law.

    ... Enough votes happened and life moves on to the Current Democrat party.

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  • From IB Joe@1:342/201 to Matt Munson on Mon Oct 13 09:06:18 2025
    On 12 Oct 2025, Matt Munson said the following...

    Most of the congress members are independently wealthy. One of them in
    my state is worth almost 100m+ Jay Olbernolte.


    And she did that while in office.

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  • From IB Joe@1:342/201 to Matt Munson on Mon Oct 13 09:26:42 2025
    On 12 Oct 2025, Matt Munson said the following...


    we would not have equal marriage rights for non straight people if stuff like proposition 8 was intact because the majority wanted to ban it for non straight people.

    Majoritarian policies can backfire.


    No one gives a sh!t about gay-anything. The right thought the word "Marriage" meant one thing, a relationship between a man and a woman, where as the left, who don't really car about gays, just wanted a wedge issue.

    In Jun of 2015 the Supreme Court ruled that Same-Sex couples are guaranteed the same as straight couples.

    America strives to be "a more perfect union".

    Relax... The Republicans fight everyday, usually against the Democrats, but it is a fight worth fighting.

    Trump is in the Middle East today freeing hostages and securing peace... While the Democrats are crewing on all the old bones of the past.

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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/201 to Matt Munson on Mon Oct 13 10:13:40 2025
    But I still disagree with it. The minority is still being contro majority (mission failed) and the filibuister is probably the re congress never does anything useful.
    we would not have equal marriage rights for non straight people if stuff like proposition 8 was intact because the majority wanted to ban it for non straight people.

    If I understand correctly, the majority of California lawmakers were in favor of Proposition 8, but then years went by, and it was amended later when the majority was against it.

    Isn't that what happened? If so, then what's wrong with it? When Biden was president the majority was in favor of having thousands of people die along the US-Mexico border. But now the majority is no longer in favor of that.

    Sometimes we have to experiment with unfairness to get people to open their eyes.

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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/201 to Dr. What on Mon Oct 13 10:17:32 2025
    I can think of thousands of other reasons why congress never does
    anything useful. The filibuster is simply something that stands out.

    And it's part of the process to prevent the tyranny of the majority.

    That sounds true, but tyranny at the senate level is just a few gold bars away.

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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/201 to IB Joe on Mon Oct 13 10:35:16 2025
    Recall Senator Democrat Robert Byrd, an X-KKK member, filibustered the 1964 Civil Rights Act...

    The Republicans overcame the filibuster and as a result this was eventually signed into law

    That's a good point, and I understand that the filibuster served a good purpose at that time, but I still think that the majority should rule.

    The majority rules in elections, and that works out pretty good.

    Worst case scenario for if there were no filibuster in 1964: The Civil Rights Act would have had to wait another year or 2.

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  • From Matt Munson@1:103/705 to IB Joe on Mon Oct 13 14:30:05 2025
    Re: Re: Shutdown
    By: IB Joe to Matt Munson on Mon Oct 13 2025 09:26 am

    No one gives a sh!t about gay-anything. The right thought the word "
    I am trying to sell the argment why majoritarian politics can be dangerous to progressives and left leaning people.
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  • From Matt Munson@1:103/705 to Aaron Thomas on Mon Oct 13 14:30:57 2025
    Re: Re: Shutdown
    By: Aaron Thomas to IB Joe on Mon Oct 13 2025 10:35 am

    The majority rules in elections, and that works out pretty good.
    Its why America is not a pure democracy.
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  • From Dr. What@1:342/201 to IB Joe on Tue Oct 14 04:46:16 2025
    IB Joe wrote to Matt Munson <=-

    No one gives a sh!t about gay-anything. The right thought the word "Marriage" meant one thing, a relationship between a man and a woman, where as the left, who don't really car about gays, just wanted a wedge issue.

    Actually, the Left just wanted to destroy the meaning of the word "Marriage". Just like they want to destroy everything else.

    In Jun of 2015 the Supreme Court ruled that Same-Sex couples are guaranteed the same as straight couples.

    But we already had a concept of "civil union". This was all the legal stuff from marriage - just not the social/religious aspect. So there was no reason for anything beyond that other than to destroy something.


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  • From Dr. What@1:342/201 to Aaron Thomas on Tue Oct 14 04:46:16 2025
    Aaron Thomas wrote to IB Joe <=-

    The majority rules in elections, and that works out pretty good.

    But the majority can't make a new law that conflicts with the Constitution.


    ... The bigger they are, the harder they hit you.
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  • From Dr. What@1:3634/27 to Matt Munson on Thu Oct 16 07:00:00 2025
    Matt Munson wrote to Aaron Thomas <=-

    we would not have equal marriage rights for non straight people if
    stuff like proposition 8 was intact because the majority wanted to ban
    it for non straight people.

    That is not true. We already had equal rights for non-straight people. The concept is called "civil union", which is, under the eyes of law, a "marriage".

    The whole "gay marriage" thing was a smoke screen and a method of changing the term "marriage" in our society.


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  • From Matt Munson@1:103/705 to Dr. What on Thu Oct 16 19:45:21 2025
    Re: Re: Shutdown
    By: Dr. What to Matt Munson on Thu Oct 16 2025 07:00 am

    The whole "gay marriage" thing was a smoke screen and a method of cha term "marriage" in our society.
    I am trying to explain that Just because the majority votes for something it does not automatically stay as law. We are not a democracy in the united states.
    No mob rule.
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  • From jimmy anderson@1:105/7 to Gerhard Strangar on Fri Oct 31 19:24:16 2025
    Gerhard Strangar wrote to Matt Munson <=-

    Marriage became unimportant, that's what really changed.

    Marriage became an outdated concept to a modern populace.

    The concept itself, in my opinion, is still important for
    a lot of reasons.



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  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to jimmy anderson on Sat Nov 1 08:42:00 2025
    jimmy anderson wrote to Gerhard Strangar <=-

    Marriage became unimportant, that's what really changed.

    Marriage became an outdated concept to a modern populace.

    The concept itself, in my opinion, is still important for
    a lot of reasons.

    I didn't like Meg Whitman's politics, but she did say one thing that
    resonated.

    Get rid of marriage as a political instrument. The government should
    deal in domestic partnerships without religious requirements or
    overtones.

    If your church wants to marry you, go ahead - but it shouldn't be a prerequisite for forming an economic/emotional partnership with someone,
    and it shouldn't have a difference on your legal rights as a
    partnership.







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  • From jimmy anderson@1:105/7 to Kurt Weiske on Sat Nov 1 18:56:48 2025
    Kurt Weiske wrote to jimmy anderson <=-

    jimmy anderson wrote to Gerhard Strangar <=-

    Marriage became unimportant, that's what really changed.

    Marriage became an outdated concept to a modern populace.

    The concept itself, in my opinion, is still important for
    a lot of reasons.

    I didn't like Meg Whitman's politics, but she did say one thing that resonated.

    Get rid of marriage as a political instrument. The government should
    deal in domestic partnerships without religious requirements or
    overtones.

    If your church wants to marry you, go ahead - but it shouldn't be a prerequisite for forming an economic/emotional partnership with
    someone, and it shouldn't have a difference on your legal rights as a partnership.

    If God is the Creator of the universe, and set everything in motion,
    shouldn't we strive to know what He thinks and wants us to do?



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  • From Kevin Koch@1:105/420 to jimmy anderson on Sat Nov 1 19:06:15 2025

    Marriage became an outdated concept to a modern populace.

    The concept itself, in my opinion, is still important for


    Well I happen to be a Ordained Minister.
    And pay as a Ordained Minister these days is crappy.

    I Lvoed it when the LGBTQ folks wanted to get married. I miss those days.

    ... When you lose, don't lose the lesson.

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  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to jimmy anderson on Mon Nov 3 06:57:43 2025
    jimmy anderson wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

    Get rid of marriage as a political instrument. The government should
    deal in domestic partnerships without religious requirements or
    overtones.

    If your church wants to marry you, go ahead - but it shouldn't be a prerequisite for forming an economic/emotional partnership with
    someone, and it shouldn't have a difference on your legal rights as a partnership.

    If God is the Creator of the universe, and set everything in motion, shouldn't we strive to know what He thinks and wants us to do?

    I don't understand your point. How does that tie into my quoted
    message?



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  • From jimmy anderson@1:105/7 to Kevin Koch on Mon Nov 3 20:42:10 2025
    Kevin Koch wrote to jimmy anderson <=-


    Marriage became an outdated concept to a modern populace.

    The concept itself, in my opinion, is still important for


    Well I happen to be a Ordained Minister.
    And pay as a Ordained Minister these days is crappy.

    I Lvoed it when the LGBTQ folks wanted to get married. I miss those days.

    Are you also a preacher? Do you share the Gospel? Or is 'ordained
    minister' just a title?

    Serious questions!



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  • From jimmy anderson@1:105/7 to Kurt Weiske on Mon Nov 3 20:42:10 2025
    Kurt Weiske wrote to jimmy anderson <=-

    jimmy anderson wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

    Get rid of marriage as a political instrument. The government should
    deal in domestic partnerships without religious requirements or
    overtones.

    If your church wants to marry you, go ahead - but it shouldn't be a prerequisite for forming an economic/emotional partnership with
    someone, and it shouldn't have a difference on your legal rights as a partnership.

    If God is the Creator of the universe, and set everything in motion, shouldn't we strive to know what He thinks and wants us to do?

    I don't understand your point. How does that tie into my quoted
    message?

    Maybe I misread it. Are you saying that marriage at a CHURCH shouldn't
    be a prerequisite? I thought you meant marriage itself shouldn't
    be nessesary, to which I replied about the Creator.




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  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to jimmy anderson on Tue Nov 4 06:59:51 2025
    jimmy anderson wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

    Maybe I misread it. Are you saying that marriage at a CHURCH shouldn't
    be a prerequisite? I thought you meant marriage itself shouldn't
    be nessesary, to which I replied about the Creator.

    I was saying that domestic partnership should be a legal, governmental
    union separate from the church, open to anyone who qualifies and equal
    in benefits to a marriage.

    Marriage should be a church function, and churches can marry who they
    choose (or choose not to) but legal rights and benefits of a union
    should be a separate function.

    Let a gay couple file their taxes jointly, have the legal protections
    married people have, have legal rights when it comes to medical care
    for their partner and so on. Let the government determine those rights,
    not a church.

    The spiritual union belongs to the church, and that's completely
    separate from the legal aspect.





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  • From jimmy anderson@1:105/7 to Kurt Weiske on Tue Nov 4 16:16:39 2025
    Kurt Weiske wrote to jimmy anderson <=-

    jimmy anderson wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

    Maybe I misread it. Are you saying that marriage at a CHURCH shouldn't
    be a prerequisite? I thought you meant marriage itself shouldn't
    be nessesary, to which I replied about the Creator.

    I was saying that domestic partnership should be a legal, governmental
    union separate from the church, open to anyone who qualifies and equal
    in benefits to a marriage.

    Marriage should be a church function, and churches can marry who they
    choose (or choose not to) but legal rights and benefits of a union
    should be a separate function.

    Let a gay couple file their taxes jointly, have the legal protections
    married people have, have legal rights when it comes to medical care
    for their partner and so on. Let the government determine those
    rights,
    not a church.

    The spiritual union belongs to the church, and that's completely
    separate from the legal aspect.

    Ah - gotcha - now I understand. Marriage is a 'Holy' sacrament per the
    Catholic church, and is sacred to us Prot's as well. :-)

    Isn't that already something today though? Domestic partnership? It's
    that a legal thing?




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  • From Aaron Thomas@1:342/201 to jimmy anderson on Tue Nov 4 18:42:48 2025
    separate from the legal aspect.

    Ah - gotcha - now I understand. Marriage is a 'Holy' sacrament per the Catholic church, and is sacred to us Prot's as well. :-)

    Isn't that already something today though? Domestic partnership? It's
    that a legal thing?

    I hope Kurt still replies, but I want to butt-in to say that I've been in a "domestic partnership" for the past 17 years because of Democrat policies. I can't get married because the left's policies are a threat to my "domestic partner's" income. I mean I can get married, but then the left's policies would send ~40% of my income to my ex wife. No thanks!

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  • From Dr. What@1:142/999 to jimmy anderson on Wed Nov 5 07:10:06 2025
    Isn't that already something today though? Domestic partnership? It's
    that a legal thing?

    Yes, the "Domestic partnership" is a legal thing. Probably not under that name, though. So two people can basically share their lives and have all the legal protections/responsibilities of a couple that is "married".

    But such an arrangement might not be supported by all companies when it comes to benefits. But that would be pretty rare today.

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